DM2 in skinny active people

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anbuitachi

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I came across a patient recently, 70s, who has been diabetic and had hypertension for about a decade or so. Patient is fairly active, not very stressed guy. Not fat, BMI low 20s or so. However he was very resistant to insulin and it was very difficult to control his glucose. Anyone know of any data or experience on why these people are so resistant to insulin? Or what are your experiences on treating these patients other than keep going up on their insulin?

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for why,

my impression was that their pancreases basically crap out due to old age (not the hormonal effects of fat, because they're not fat),
which is why you end up treating them more like type 1 as far as moving quick to insulin
and them not having that type 2 sort of response re: meds or any evening out of their sugars from what the type 2's pancreas is still doing

this does more to explain why they're skinny, on insulin, and are brittle, than it does to explain why they're resistant to insulin and need a high dose

if I remember right the issue of high insulin resistance can be separate from the issue of just type 1 vs type 2
my parent was type 1 their whole life, and later in life became very resistant, needed high dose, and became brittle, and was never overweight
as I understand it, all of us become more insulin resistant with time, and to what degree is partly determined by....? but it's not just fat

I just remember that type 1 and type 2 isn't that simple and isn't all that useful for thinking about some late-onset DM
 
Has he always been that skinny? Maybe he was overweight at some point in his life, and who knows how long he had type 2 dm before being diagnosed ... ... It is not uncommon in type 2's with longstanding diabetes to need increasing amounts of insulin bc the pancreas starts to stop producing after all those years being on hyperdrive. The pancreas in a type 2 has to produce more insulin then the normal person due to the insulin resistance, and eventually it can crap out.

Especially in the elderly population, I find that sometimes these patients are getting frequent hypoglycemia and then drinking and eating sugary foods to compensate for the lows which then raises the blood sugar and increases the hba1c. So going up on the insulin for uncontrolled dm is definitely not always the answer.
 
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I had a patient last week who is very lean but had a partial pancreatetomy after an episode of necrotic pancreatitis and now requires very high doses of insulin, no history of dm prior to the surgery . He doesn't require pre-meal insulin so he's not completely like a type 1. Sometimes you just get interesting cases.
 
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Has he always been that skinny? Maybe he was overweight at some point in his life, and who knows how long he had type 2 dm before being diagnosed ... ... It is not uncommon in type 2's with longstanding diabetes to need increasing amounts of insulin bc the pancreas starts to stop producing after all those years being on hyperdrive. The pancreas in a type 2 has to produce more insulin then the normal person due to the insulin resistance, and eventually it can crap out.

Especially in the elderly population, I find that sometimes these patients are getting frequent hypoglycemia and then drinking and eating sugary foods to compensate for the lows which then raises the blood sugar and increases the hba1c. So going up on the insulin for uncontrolled dm is definitely not always the answer.

Yea has always been skinny. bmi 20-24.

Yea its a weird case. he tells me he has no family members with diabetes that he knows of,
 
Interesting question. I've heard chronic inflammation can be a contributing factor to insulin resistance, but haven't really ever seen that worked up clinically. A quick search turned this up, interesting from an academic perspective.

Chronic Subclinical Inflammation as Part of the Insulin Resistance Syndrome

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/102/1/42.short
 
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So type 1 vs type 2 isn't perfect around the edges. You have to take out the genetic causes of DM (MODY and neonatal DM) because they may look/present like type 1, but can often respond to orals (depending on the mutation). Even removing those, you can end up with the classification of ketosis prone type 2/type 1b, which are type 2 phenotypically but many have aspects of type 1 (such as antibody positivity or a propensity to go into DKA), and may or may not be absolutely insulin requiring.

Your described patient is a bit on the other side, phenotypically type 1 but with significant insulin resistance. Let's assume that you make sure he's not truly a type 1: you get a c peptide (and it's detectable) and 2 or 3 antibodies (which are negative). All right. So you have a skinny guy with type 2. Why?

It helps to separate your ideas about weight from metabolism. Normal weight people are more likely to be metabolically healthy and obese people are less likely to be metabolically healthy, but the correlation is not absolute.

You can have a morbidly obese individual, BMI 50, who has a normal blood pressure, a normal fasting glucose, and no fatty liver disease. We've all seen these people, many of whom have been that big for years and years, without any sequelae of obesity. These people are obese but metabolically healthy. They probably have some increased risk of disease, but not nearly what you'd expect given their size.

You can also have the opposite, which is what you're describing. A skinny person who is metabolically unhealthy. What is the cause of this? Well, some people are just unlucky. There's tons of genetic variants that make you more prone to type 2, and it is pretty strongly hereditary. Part of the picture is when these people gain weight, they have a propensity towards gaining visceral fat rather than subcutaneous fat, which gives you all the metabolic consequences without making you look obese. You also tend to get more insulin resistant as you get older, independently of gaining weight.

What else could be the case? Well, there's also the possibility that he's not actually THAT insulin resistant, but there's something wrong with how he's absorbing or processing insulin. Assuming his injection technique is correct and he doesn't have significant lipohypertrophy, you have to wonder if there's anti-insulin antibodies. Clinically significant titers of those are pretty damn rare in modern times though, so it's much more likely he's just more insulin resistant than you'd expect given his BMI and age, due to a bad luck of the genetic draw.

Depending on the patient and their comorbidites, you treat them just like you would any other type 2. If they're really poorly controlled they will almost certainly need at least basal insulin, but a lot of the time you might be able to get away with basal+orals. It's really patient dependent though.
 
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