1. The SDN iPhone App is back and free through November! Get it today and please post a review on the App Store!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dismiss Notice

DMU, closing...

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by Kent Ray, Jul 5, 2001.

  1. Kent Ray

    Kent Ray Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 1999
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just heard from a good friend of mine in his first year of surgery at Des Moines general hospital that they closed all medical education effective now.
    I think everyone is aware of my view toward DMU regarding clinical education. This is basically DMU's only offical affiliation in Des Moines. Don't worry though this hospital really was poor for medical education.
    I would like to know what the rest of you think about this and if something or nothing should be done about clinical education.
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. sidebentleft

    sidebentleft Junior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2001
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    According to the Des Moines Register 7/5/01:

    The medical education program has been eliminated. 28 positions have been eliminated. As many as 125 additional layoffs are expected later this week (in addition to the residents already laid-off).

    An interesting quote from Stephen Harris, the CEO of Metropolitan "We are working with them to find spots in other programs and a number of physicians are trying to find a creative solution for maintaining medical education."
    *What is a creative solution? more volunteer, unpaid "faculty" to teach the residents?

    How will this impact DMU students who are expecting to rotate through Metro???? Can a hospital which has cut all residency programs provide a quality educational experience for a 3rd or 4th year student?
     
  4. Kent Ray

    Kent Ray Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 1999
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, I would say that going to Des Moines General in the first place is one of the worst ideas you could have. This is not a place of learning. Apparently the attending would never show up with morning report and most of the time they just would not have them. As you know teaching at private hospitals with unpaid physicians is about the worst education you could recieve. The students at DMU should write letters of concern to the Dean, President, and Board members. This is not a matter that should be taken lightly. DMU has one of weakest if not the weakest OPTI. If you want to help your school you should make your voice heard.
     
  5. JS-UNMC

    JS-UNMC Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2001
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kent, please clarify for me... Metro is cancelling all of its GME for residents and interns? Is that correct? I spoke with Dr. Reed two weeks ago, he is the director of the general surgery residency there, and he said nothing to me about closing the surg residency at metro. This would be devastating as this is the only residency that I have heard anything good about. I would appreciate any more information that you could give.
    Thank you, Josh
     
  6. Kent Ray

    Kent Ray Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 1999
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    JSDMU,
    One of my best friends is,or was a first year surgery resident. I just talked to his wife and she comfirmed the news. Sorry, if I can help you in any way email me at [email protected]
     
  7. sunny9505

    sunny9505 Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2001
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kent,
    I have read some of your previous posts concerning the clinical education of DMU. What would you recommend to make the best of our situation as we pick rotations next year? Thanks for your help.
     
  8. Atlas

    Atlas Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2001
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    4
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    What does this mean for the medical school?
     
  9. vtach

    vtach Zzzzzz...
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2000
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Here is the word from the Dean in the Des Moines Register....

    Hospital to cut jobs to stay in business
    By TONY LEYS
    Register Staff Writer
    07/06/2001
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Metropolitan Medical Center will cut 104 jobs and drop five programs so it can stay in business, leaders said Thursday.

    "It boils down to the choice of going forward leaner and more focused or not at all," Chief Executive Officer Stephen Harris wrote in a statement.

    The hospital will discontinue its obstetrics, skilled-nursing care, medical education and geriatric psychiatry departments. It also is closing "Lil" General," a child-care program for children with minor illnesses.

    "The demand for these programs from patients and physicians simply hasn't materialized," Harris said.

    Spokeswoman Jamie Buelt said the cuts should help the former Des Moines General Hospital gain financial health.

    Twenty-eight medical residents and interns are included in the people losing their Metropolitan positions. Buelt said the Iowa Osteopathic Medical Association has offered to help with moving expenses for residents who have to leave the city to find new positions.

    Dr. H.S. Teitelbaum, a dean at Des Moines University-Osteopathic Medical Center, said the training program's demise would hurt.

    "The physicians at Metropolitan have been very good as instructors," he said. "Quality programs are to be prized, and Metropolitan had one."

    Teitelbaum said many recent graduates of his medical school will have to leave the area to find new residencies. Some third- and fourth-year medical students will have to go elsewhere for their scheduled hospital rotations, he said.

    Other area hospitals have been invited to talk to laid-off employees this afternoon at Metropolitan. "We'd love to hire some of those staff that are being displaced. We think we could put them to good work," said David Stark, chief operating officer of Iowa Lutheran Hospital.

    Stark expressed doubt that Metropolitan's owners will be able to keep the hospital alive. "For the patients' sake, for the community's sake, for the staff's sake, I hope they do," he said.

    Stark said he was not shocked by news that Metropolitan is having money problems. He said his hospital and its partners, Iowa Methodist Medical Center and Blank Children's Hospital, have been trying to collect $60,000 in overdue bills he said Metropolitan owes them for equipment maintenance and other services.

    Iowa Hospital Association President Steve Brenton said Metropolitan's financial struggles are common among small urban hospitals.

    Those facilities are finding it particularly tough to make money in an era of low payments from government and private insurance plans, he said. They have a harder time holding down costs, and they are getting fewer patient referrals from family doctors, who are aligning with large hospital corporations.

    Stark said his hospital group considered buying Metropolitan before businessman Gary Kirke purchased it last year. The group would not be interested if the business went up for sale again, Stark said.

    A Mercy Medical Center spokeswoman declined to comment on whether her hospital would consider buying Metropolitan.

    Buelt, the Metropolitan spokeswoman, said she had heard nothing about the hospital being for sale. "Quite frankly, even if that were the case, we wouldn't comment on that," she said.

    State leaders are looking into the possibility of buying the property for office space and parking. Metropolitan officials have said if they sold the hospital to the state, they would rebuild elsewhere in the Des Moines area.


    Medical residents
    BACKGROUND: Des Moines General was founded by osteopathic doctors, and it used to be the place where most local osteopaths went for professional experience as residents. The wall between osteopaths and medical doctors has come down in recent decades, and osteopathic students and graduates now also are placed at other hospitals. That should lessen the harm Metropolitan's program cuts will have on Des Moines University.

    RESIDENCIES: Here are the overall numbers of residencies at other local hospitals:

    * Broadlawns Medical Center: 37.

    * Iowa Methodist Medical Center, Blank Children's Hospital and Iowa Lutheran Hospital: 88.

    * Mercy Medical Center: 25

    * Veterans Affairs Medical Center: 24.
     
  10. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    The surgery residency is still intact as of today....
     
  11. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Even with this happening, isn't there a new affiliated hospital with DMU which is Mercy Hospital?

    They also told me that there are several places that students can do their rotations and residencies.... How much is this really going to affect our entering class?

    I went on campus and all they did was give me diplomatic type responses.... Anyone care to ponder how this will affect the current students?
     
  12. JS-UNMC

    JS-UNMC Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2001
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Kent, as far as the surgery residency goes, it is still intact. As far as all of the other residencies, I don't have a clue.
    I know that the surg residency WAS based out of Metro but they did most of their work (about 75%) at Mercy, this is probably why it is still intact... thanks mostly to Dr. Reed I'm sure. Dr. Reed is VERY well respected and has done an incredible job of putting together a great general surgery residency, with that said, I'm sure he did whatever he had to to keep it from being dissolved.

    As to how this will affect future training... I really hope that Mercy is able to pick up the slack. It is a much bigger hospital with better facilities and opportunities. I sincerely feel sorry for all of the 3rd and 4th year students as well as the interns and residents at Metro who are now SOL. Hopefully, this will be sorted out by the time that the classes of '04 and '05 get to that point.

    This also reminds me about another recent event... several years ago, Georgetowns hospital got bought out and the new company closed all residencies and student positions at the hospital leaving the medical school there scrambling. I realize that there may have been very different circumstances however, Georgetown still has a med school and are obviously training them somewhere. Who knows, maybe this is just the shake-up that DMU needs to re-affiliate themselves with better teaching institutions.... lets keep a bright outlook on this and hope that some good changes comes out of it. I'm not trying to sugar coat the situation, just hoping for the best.
     
  13. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I was working out in the gym today and heard a couple of third/fourth years saying that they are getting placed somewhere else.... they didn't go into detail.... But I, too, hope that Mercy picks up that slack....
     
  14. muonwhiz

    muonwhiz Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2001
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm really sorry to hear that this has happened and wish the best for all DMU students.
     
  15. sidebentleft

    sidebentleft Junior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2001
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is very unfortunate for these students. there are a very limited number of "core" hospital rotations in Des Moines. These students had picked Metro, not for its educational qualities, but because they wanted to stay in DM to do rotations. Yes, this may be foolish academically, but for those with families in DM it will be a huge burden to relocate multiple times throughout 3rd and 4th years. In addition, there is a substantial financial burden to move several times throughout rotations. The prospect of spending 4-6 months 3000 miles from your spouse and/or children is not pleasant. this is precisely why DMU makes you sign a big, bold statement that you understand that rotations are not guaranteed in DM. Up untill now they were at least a reasonable possibility.

    jsdmu- you say that you hope this is the shake-up DMU needs to re-affiliate? One can only hope. The downside is that students are expensive to teach. Until DMU will pony up with some CASH to fund faculty at Mercy, don't look for mercy to be much help. In other words, plan on your 3rd & 4th years in Ohio or MI or PA.
     
  16. Kent Ray

    Kent Ray Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 1999
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Some of you are saying that the Surgery program is still open. This is very unlikely, once a program closes, because of HCFA regulations they cannot open ever again. From what I hear they were trying to reopen the program at Mercy but did not understand the HCFA regulations.
    It is unfortunate for the poor medical students that have to pack their families up and trek around the country. This was difficult as a single person, I could not imagine what it would be like with a family.
    I feel like now is the time for the students and alumni to take some action. DMU has one of the worst OPTI systems and they are not doing one thing about it. They have been talking about making Mercy a core hospital for years and we are not any closer today that 4 years ago.
    If any of you would like to voice your opinion please write to the Dean or the the board members. You can find a listing of board members at
    web page
     
  17. JS-UNMC

    JS-UNMC Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2001
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sidebent Left, Although I am hoping for the best, I am not going to hold my breath! Yes, DMU does need to "pony up the cash" to get a better affiliation with Mercy.

    Kent, I understood many of the DO GME (and rotation) problems going into a DO school. However, the more I learn, the more frustrated I become. I am very aware of your frustrations as I am starting to be pushed into them. I do think that it is completely unreasonable to ask students to leave their state where they are attending medical school to do rotations. I have never heard of an MD school (in the US) that required its students to do this. Much of what I want to say here has been adressed at much length in other threads, so I will spare everyone of my ranting and raving! By the way Kent, I was wondering what type of residency you are in (ie, IM, FP...). Are you doing a DO or MD residency? This "CORE" stuff is really getting anoying to me because it seems that most of our (90%) sites are in MI, OH, or PA... none of which I want to go to.
     
  18. Kent Ray

    Kent Ray Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 1999
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    JSDMU,
    I know your pain! I have just finished a traditional rotating internship at Bi county and Henry Ford in Detroit. Currently I am doing IM at University of Iowa, where I plan to enter GI.
    I have never been treated better than they treat us here. This is a great place and they take education seriously. I have found no bias against DOs. To tell you the truth I probably dislike DMU more than anyone here. If you need anything please email me at [email protected]
     
  19. JS-UNMC

    JS-UNMC Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2001
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey all. I'm going to talk to Dr Reed tomorrow to get the official word on the surg residency and any other info he can give me.... later.
     
  20. jean

    jean Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kent - how did you swing the IM rotation at U of Iowa? Do you have connections? I'm curious because I would like to do a rotation or two there (in a few years).
     
  21. Atlas

    Atlas Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2001
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    4
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Hey! What does this mean for med students at DMU?! I'm very interested in applying there next year. Is this going to be a bad idea?
    Please respond.

    Thanks
     
  22. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    One of the effects is that if you want to do a rotation in nearby vicinities of Des Moines, Iowa then you're chances get slimer.... There are other places to do rotations....
     
  23. Atlas

    Atlas Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2001
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    4
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    That's it?! That's the only hurdle current and new students face?! Wow. I was thinking that the whole school was shutting down from the tone of some of these posts!
     
  24. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Ohhhh NO!!! DMU is definitely NOT closing down... it's just that one of the affiliated hospitals closed down its medical education program that lots of med students rotate at and some residents go to....

    I've looked at the areas to which last years 3rd yr have gone to their rotations and there really is much more places out there. Besides, from what I heard, the hospital to which the med ed program was closed was really not all that big.... The new affiliation with Mercy (which I hope will fly) should be better. Mercy has bigger and better facilities....

    I'm sure others will comment about this Atlas, just give them time....
     
  25. Atlas

    Atlas Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2001
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    4
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    That's comforting to know! I'd hate to see the school go down due to financial constraints. Maybe this financial scare will fend off some applicants, making it easier for me to get accepted! I doubt it, though. :rolleyes: Anyways, I'm glad to see that the school will be ok! It's one of my top choices!
     
  26. JS-UNMC

    JS-UNMC Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2001
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    0
    I spoke with Dr. Reed's office today and here is what I learned. At this moment, Dr. Reed is working his butt off to secure the surgery residency's future... it IS still in limbo though. He should know more in the next three weeks. It would be a tragedy to lose this program as it is one of the few REALLY good programs that the school still has.
    What does it mean for us that Metro closed? It means that the school lost 12 student positions, internship positions and the family practice residency. So far, Mercy has picked up the 12 student position, but the internships and residencies have been dissolved. Hopefully over the next few years, DMU will do its part to make Mercy their new affiliate and start adding more positions. At this time, it looks "hopeful" that Mercy will absorb the surgery residency... but this is not a certainty as of yet.

    -Josh
     
  27. JS-UNMC

    JS-UNMC Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2001
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are a few problems standing in the way of Mercy affiliating itself with DMU. To start with, whenever a merger like this comes about, Mercy is going to rightfully so demand that its physicians be compensated for taking students as well as compensating the hospital for taking the students. Any med school, not just DMU, is going to be stingy with its money. So this is really the starting point for affiliation... money! Both are businesses and both want to stay afloat.
    Also, there are old bad-blood MD vs DO issues from the past that have to be dealt with. Thankfully, the surgery group there (which Dr Reed is a part of) has avoided this part. Hopefuly this will expidite Mercy absorbing the surg residency.
    Another problem is that Mercy already has a Mayo Clinic Family Practice residency at Mercy. I am sure this will cause some type of problem with DMU trying to nudge their way into that.

    Summary: its politics as usuall!!!
     
  28. sidebentleft

    sidebentleft Junior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2001
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dean of DMU's emailed response to students:



    From: Noftsger, Alison
    To: PC Users; DO04; DO03; DO02; DO01
    Cc:

    Subject: Metropolitan Hospital
    Sent: 7/11/2001 2:35 PM
    Importance: Normal
    Email Memorandum
    To: DO Classes of 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, Administration, Faculty & Staff

    From: H.S. Teitelbaum, DO, Ph.D., M.P.H.

    Dean, College of Osteopathic Medicine & Surgery

    Date: July 11, 2001

    Re: Metropolitan Hospital

    On July 2, 2001, the College was informed that all interns, residents, and clinical clerks at Metropolitan Medical Center would be terminated as of 5:00 p.m. on July 6, 2001. The reasons cited were financial. This precipitous move on the part of Metropolitan Hospital prompted an immediate response by the Dean's staff at the medical school.

    First, an action plan was devised and priorities were established. Because our major responsibilities are to our undergraduate students, discussions were held between the College and the teaching physicians at Metropolitan. It was gratifying indeed to get the cooperation of these individuals who have volunteered to continue to teach our current students. This includes both clinical and didactic teaching. All students currently doing rotations at Metropolitan are accommodated at this time.

    Our second priority is to assist in the relocation of the interns and residents. Our office of post-graduate education, the Still Consortium of Osteopathic Post-Graduate Education (SCOPE), working closely with the AOA, has been trying to secure places for everyone. Many of the interns and residents are not Des Moines University graduates, however, we feel an obligation to work for them as well. We are continuing to work on this and are pleased to report that local hospitals as well as hospitals across the country are helping us in this regard. It is likely however that many of the current interns and residents will have to move out of state to continue their education. To date all family practice and internal medicine residents have been placed. All surgical residents will be accommodated locally. Interns are finding positions both locally and nationally.

    Our next priority was to try to find funding for the interns and residents who have necessarily had to be relocated. The Iowa Osteopathic Medical Association has an educational foundation and has authorized funding for these individuals.

    Our next priority is to continue efforts to establish new rotations elsewhere in the city and state for our clerks. We have an agreement in place and approximately 6 students have been assigned to Mercy Hospital and are expected to start in the fall. We are also engaged in conversations with other local hospitals. Bearing in mind that all hospitals have to be affiliated with the College and approved by standards set by the American Osteopathic Association, an immediate agreement is not possible. However, we are working very hard with local and hospitals throughout the state and are hopeful that agreements can be in place by September. Because of our eighty-year association with the Des Moines General (Metropolitan Hospital), we have looked historically at a nearly an exclusive relationship with that facility as our main teaching hospital in the city. Although we have core students at Broadlawns and the Veteran's hospital, and elective rotations at Blank, Mercy, and other institutions, our main thrust has been with DMG (Metropolitan). Our main goal is still educating Osteopathic medical students in high quality teaching hospitals. Internships and Residencies are important but really have their primary administrative responsibilities with SCOPE and the hospitals that have entered into contracts with the intern or resident. The decision by Metropolitan Medical Center has also placed in jeopardy existing residency positions in the city, positions that have been filled by Osteopathic medical school graduates. We have been working with the Metropolitan, the AOA and the Federal Government to construct a scenario that will preserve these postgraduate training opportunities in the Des Moines area.

    The administration of the College of Osteopathic Medicine and Surgery has taken the initiative in making sure the actions of Metropolitan will have only minimal impact on the education of our medical students. We feel sorry indeed for the many loyal employees of Metropolitan hospital who have been with that institution for decades. We see this situation as an opportunity to affiliate with more hospitals and to increase training sites in the city and the state. We are also continuing to recruit training sites outside the State of Iowa to allow greater choice for our students. The emphasis is and will always be on quality teaching sites. In summary, we feel we have successfully provided for the education of our third and fourth year students, assisted in the relocation of our graduates who are Interns and residents to the extent that we can. The combined efforts of the College, dedicated community based Osteopathic physicians, the Iowa Osteopathic Medical Association, and the Still Consortium of Osteopathic Post-Graduate Education in a tremendous show of unity and dedication, has minimized the effect of this hospital decision.

    HST/ajcn


    .....................................

    Alison J.C. Noftsger
    Dean's Office/DMU - COMS
    (515) 271-1513/(515) 271-1521 (fax)
     
  29. JS-UNMC

    JS-UNMC Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2001
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Sidebent Left, I was trying to post that earlier but couldn't get it to copy and paste... So thanks for posting that message. Doesn't say too much though as to what they are trying to do to get us more positions.
    -Josh Smith
     
  30. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Ditto on that comment jsdmu.... I guess they don't like to get into specifics.... At least they're doing something. Let's just see how much of that "something" will be fruitful for the current students....

    Thanks for sharing that....
     
  31. ryanpj

    ryanpj Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 1999
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Man this really blows. It is for this reason or fear that I almost went to an allopathic school. Now I wish I had. Here is a novel idea. Get rid of the new computers, projectors, $1500 desks for the profs. in the new science building, stop catering meals to every damn function, cut some of the custodian amd ground crew positions because they either sleep on the job or spend most of their day smoking outside. Stop spending money on frivolous ****! Shut some F'ing lights off! Fork over some money and get us into one of the other hospitals in town. This sucks! Kent give us some guidance. How do we get the unconcerned, overpaid slime molds in thee Clinical Affairs (or whatever dept.) to get their **** into gear? Todd (Vtach) what is the feeling and atmosphere around school? :mad:
     
  32. JS-UNMC

    JS-UNMC Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2001
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    0
    So, what is it that the U of Iowa is doing right that has allowed it to make such a strong program with Iowa Methodist? They are based two hours away but have the nicest hospital in DSM... should we be trying to learn some lessons here???
     
  33. sidebentleft

    sidebentleft Junior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2001
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0

    Whoa there big fella, settle down!

    You really can't tell me that you don't agree that the campus needs the improvements that are being made. I would agree that there are some questionable expenses incurred, but you don't want to steal from Peter to pay Paul. They need to spend the money on all fronts. My biggest gripe is the big salaries spent on physicians who do only administrative work.
     
  34. sidebentleft

    sidebentleft Junior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2001
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rumor has it that U of Iowa offered to take DMU students at Methodist Hospital for Core rotations, but DMU would not agree to the terms. Supposed sticking points were:
    1. DMU had to pay $100 per student.

    2. DMU students would be required to complete the same tests that Iowa students take.
     
  35. sidebentleft

    sidebentleft Junior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2001
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    First, Kent is not on a rotation. He is a graduate of DMU, in his second year of postgrad training at Iowa.

    Second, if you are going to DMU (or any other DO school) you can not rotate at Iowa's University Hospital. They do not allow DO's to do visiting clerkships.
     
  36. sidebentleft

    sidebentleft Junior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2001
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    They never get into specifics. The dean was very evasive and even irritated when questioned about rotations by first year students last year.

    "at least they are doing something" you say??? So it would appear.
     
  37. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    sidebentleft.... you're right, during my interview someone asked about rotations and I did notice a change of face with administrators at DMU....

    What ever is being done, I just hope by my third year things will be better.... I guess the more I get involved in DMU the more I'm gonna see more problems and hear more complaints.

    Thanks for the feedbacks....
     
  38. JS-UNMC

    JS-UNMC Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2001
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sidebent Left, at this point in time I am about ready to start saving my own money to give to Iowa Methodist for them to take me... if only it were possible! :(
     
  39. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Why isn't that possible.... If it takes $100 per student to get students into Iowa Methodist, then why not allow the students to vote as to whether or not to add an addition to their already high tuition... I'm more than happy too.... Shoot.... As long as I can get the best education, why not?
     
  40. kidterrific

    kidterrific Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
    If I'm not mistaken, it's not the SCHOOL that closed down, it's the hospital, for lack of funding. And who gives a ****? It's not like there's no other options. There are other options....BETTER ONES.
     
  41. JS-UNMC

    JS-UNMC Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2001
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    0
    Three little letters JP: AOA. Thats why it won't happen.
     
  42. SunnyOne

    SunnyOne Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2001
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    About Mercy...i work there and things are tight financially. If the founding Nuns were on fire, administration would surely secure reimbursement for water and staff time before allowing the fire to be put out. ;)
     
  43. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    AOA... so far I haven't been experiencing anything good with them.... :mad:
     
  44. vtach

    vtach Zzzzzz...
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2000
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Hi all,

    Well Ryan, sorry I can answer the question about what the feeling is at school. It is my last summer to enjoy myself. I have taken the time to spend some time seeing family and long lost friends and have only driven by the school once....to check to see what the message monitor thing was about. So I am afraid that I have no idea what the feeling at school is. I am sure that we will all find out the feeling on Aug. 13th. and I think that is close enough that I am not going to let it ruin my summer. It is interesting to see what has happened over the past few weeks but we really have no control over what is ultimately going to happen. I guess I am going to have a little trust in the people on the 5th floor, and see what they have to offer to us in the next few months. Match isn't until October or November and I am sure that some alternive plan will be in place by then as for now......as Yoda would say. "Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future."
     
  45. 1 of 200

    1 of 200 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2001
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Every class for the last 3 classes has had a different "deal" when it comes to rotations, so first/second years (or soon to be first years who seem to think it's appropriate to sound off about things they really have no clue about)should just wait until that first clinical affairs meeting in the fall of their 2nd year before getting all huffy and puffy - don't worry, it will all change.

    $100/student? good grief, who cares - I'm paying 25K/yr as I schedule everything else on my own (including paying a fee for several places to come as a visiting student). Open it up to the students.


    "remember - this is the school that gave you the opportunity to be a doctor" (- sir B.), so true. jump through the hoops, get out, and go heal.
     
  46. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Now, now, 1 of 200, was that comment really necessary? Come on now....How much of what we know do you really know? (Granted that you probably know much more than us).... Geez, we've yet to start and this is the welcoming wagon to greet us?.... Be nice, dude.... Noone's bustin' your chops....

    I do agree with you that things will change and you're right, despite everything that will happen we'll still get that degree we want.... In the meantime we'll just all have to chill....

    "$100/student? good grief" (1 of 200)..... As I had posted before, I agree with you on this as well.... Open it up for students....

    Then again, we all don't know what's really goin'on.... All students can do is voice out their opinions and I've seen the Innominate's articles and there has been many frustrations regarding curriculum, rotations, etc.... It doesn't matter how much we voice out in frustration. It's really up to the administrative folks to get the job done....

    With that said, everyone just enjoy the rest of your summer break and not worry about this whole spill.... Who cares any more....
     
  47. hankhill

    hankhill Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 1999
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Posted by 1of200:Every class for the last 3 classes has had a different "deal" when it comes to rotations, so first/second years (or soon to be first years who seem to think it's appropriate to sound off about things they really have no clue about)should just wait until that first clinical affairs meeting in the fall of their 2nd year before getting all huffy and puffy - don't worry, it will all change.

    Reply: I understand what you are saying here, and I agree that we shouldn't pass judgement without being well informed on the aspects of clinical education at DMU. However, a major problem seems to be the school's lack of communication with students on this very subject. We asked on more than one occasion last year at dean's calls about the clinical years and each time we got a "wait and see" response. That kind of approach is not what got most of us into medical school. I would much rather research, plan, and be prepared. You say, "don't worry, it will all change" and "Every class for the last 3 classes has had a different deal when it comes to rotations." Honestly, those two statements make me worry.
     
  48. sidebentleft

    sidebentleft Junior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2001
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Don't worry, everything will be ok"? Where have I heard that before? 1 of 200, you must be preparing for a career in acedemia.

    I don't think anyone is "huffy". or even "puffy". Seriously, I think what is being pointed out, is that there is a lack of Core rotations available in DM, and the closing of positions @ General makes even fewer.

    Secondly, after hearing 2nd years complain about the lack of help from clinical affairs, it would seem reasonable for first years to start to ask questions.
     
  49. Neurogirl

    Neurogirl Resident Extraordinaire
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2000
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    1
    As of July 13, the surgery program was still open, however, I was told that they were "taking it one day at a time".
     
  50. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    That's exactly what I was told when I visited Dr. Reed's office.... I've also gone around the entire campus finding out what's really up and I've been given answer such as "They're doing their best, one day at a time," "Don't worry, there are other places to do rotation," "Why don't you take a look at this binder where our students do rotation," or "We're trying our best to get things going with Mercy.".....

    Among other things.... Ever since I've read previous postings by Kent Ray about the short comings of DMU I've been asking questions.... It didn't change my decision to go to DMU and it never will....

    I just hope and pray that things will go alright (which it probably will). In the end we'll all still become docs, right?.... As long as I'm in DMU, time permitted, and as long as I have something to say or a question to ask I'll as them....

    As mentioned before by hankhill, the major problem is lack of communication with the students.... The staff is great and welcoming, but when it comes to this topic they seem to turn politician on students, or at least me....


    I'm not huffin' or puffin' either, just in case 1 of 200 reads this, I'm just stating what I have experience and what I have read from other people's postings.... I agree with sidebentleft that it is reasonable for us first years to start asking question when we hear things like this from our upperclassmen....

    I just hope they deliver us with answers....
     
  51. 1 of 200

    1 of 200 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2001
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    sidebent (that's gotta be W.Y.) I didn't say everything would be OK - I said it would *change*. And i didn't mean to be harsh with the huffy & puffy - just meant that to get bothered now will probably not have much of an effect or impact. heck - to get bothered during mandatory class meetings doesn't have much of an effect either. We'll all have to deal with some problems, but we'll all have to take mucho responsibility for our own clinical education. It's a big pain - and I"m really sorry for the classmates whose schedules are seriously in a bind because of DMG's issues ("the residency program still exists - it's just not filled").

    didn't mean to be sour, and I apologize . For those coming in - well if you can - plan to go to Ohio or something. There will be a lecture built into the curriculum somewhere about how to check out the financial status of hospitals you're applying to for residency.
     

Share This Page