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DMU myths?

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by macman, Mar 7, 2002.

  1. macman

    macman Senior Member

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    I have gotten a few e-mails regarding DMU (where I am a second year), I am not on here consistently and I am picking up on a few urban legends regarding DMU.

    1) Myth: Our rotations are the worst: I guess in that case so are OUCOM's, or MSUCOM's, because we rotate at many of their sites. Yes-we do not have a huge list of our own hospitals-but what does that mean? Yes-the clinical affairs department is not alw3ays a model of efficiency, but guess what-any truth telling medical student will find plenty of faults with their school.

    We have a lot of choice, I would say at least 90% of our class got what they wanted in our "match". Some students like to travel, thats what they got, some don't, they stayed here or went to Ohio Core.

    2) General item: I think one problem DMU has on this site is that we have a lot of students on here not afraid to air a little dirty laundry. However, that is not always balanced with positive aspects. I go to conferences through COSGP and talk to students from all 19 schools and I realized that DMU was fine afterall. Every school have its pros and cons.

    If other things have come up and I missed them, post it here. Any school is what you make it. DMU has worked out excellent for me; this school probably has the best "community" atmosphere of any medical school.

    -MSII
     
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  3. Stillfocused

    Stillfocused Senior Member

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    Is it true that DMU has the lowest MCAT scores and gpas of any medical school in the US?
     
  4. CTDMU

    CTDMU Junior Member

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    In reply to "macman" aka brewmaster, I would have to say that the rotations that we get bad remarks on this board for are decent, they allow us to find the rotation that works for us and in a way forces us to do research and make sure where we are going in of good quality.

    Macman should be pleased with his experience here at DMU. Goldenchild is golden afterall.
     
  5. The Mesentery

    The Mesentery Member

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    I really liked DMU also because of it's community atmosphere also plus its a city that is not too big or not too small. Too bad they rejected me or otherwise I would have went there.
     
  6. mikeaparker

    mikeaparker Senior Member

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    The only problem I had with DMU was their facilities, the lack there of , or the quality and age of the existing ones....

    Mike
     
  7. Slingblade the Surgeon

    Slingblade the Surgeon Senior Member

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    I must say that DMU was one of the friendliest places I ever visited. I was a little put off by being told that we couldn't see the anatomy lab(s). I thought it was cool that you only have class till 12. And ummmm, there was some guy in the lobby when our group went through who said..."psst, hey don't go here trust me" hehehe
    And being from the South, that was the coldest weather I'd experienced in my life (and everyone kept telling me how nice it was that day). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> That sort of thing has an effect on the Southern Psyche. :D
     
  8. RockandRolldoc

    RockandRolldoc Senior Member

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    I too interviewed at DMU a couple weeks ago. I really did like the school, and the people there were friendly, and I know the school has a great reputation. However, one thing that I found to be a huge negative was a lack of diversity among the student body. Now, I could have just been there at a weird time... but I saw very few people who were not white and christian. There is nothing wrong with being white and christian, but I personally have grown up in a very multicultural environment througout my childhood and undergrad experience and I found this decreased my comfort factor with the school. Again, I am a whole-hearted believer that it's all about what kind of person you are... however, there is an intangible advantage to having diversity amongst friends, peers, and colleagues, and I just did not see this at DMU.
     
  9. vietcongs

    vietcongs Senior Member

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    There is absolutely nothing wrong with DMU!! I don't know where such myths come from. I am very pleased with my choice of attending DMU. About diversity, good luck finding anywhere in the midwest that isn't mostly white and christian. By the way, I attend DMU and I'm neither white nor Christian. You just didn't happen to run into any of us on interview day. I would say around 10% of our class is minority, but that is also over representative of the demographics of Iowa..which is not the most diverse place in the world. About facilities, DMU has finished its Science and Education Building and next year will tear down all the old facilities to build new ones. I have nothing to complain about DMU. I'm glad I'm here, I like living in Des Moines, and the DMU experience has been overall good for me.
     
  10. macman

    macman Senior Member

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    With regard to facilities-that was the big thing that turned me off when I toured in 2000. However, most of that has changed since I came and I came to realize that small OMM labs that looked old (now are redone) are far better than a large fancy room where the whole class has lab at once (at an unnamed school that I also interviewed at).

    My goal was not to sell DMU, I'm not getting paid here-I just find that negativity begets negativity. Its easy to talk yourself out of one school vs. another-I did not want anyone talking themselves out of a great school because of some rumors.

    BTW-we do only have class till Noon-compare that with your current dream school-ever try to study for five hours after 8 hours of lecture?
     
  11. Stillfocused

    Stillfocused Senior Member

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    Let me try this again:

    Is it true that DMU has the lowest MCAT scores and gpas of any medical school in the US???????

    I know that DMU has many pluses but what about this presistent rumor??????????????????????

    It it true????????????
     
  12. AYLC

    AYLC Member

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    I am not a DMU student, but I recall I read that DMU has average MCAT score and gpa(some where between 24-26, 3.2-3.5) as other osteopathic schools around the nation. Maybe some current student can provide more info on that.
     
  13. windsurfr

    windsurfr Member

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    I am attending DMU in the fall. My MCAT is a combined 31. Furthermore the most respected child/adolescent psychiatrist BY FAR in minneapolis (maybe minnesota) is a DMU grad.
     
  14. Stillfocused

    Stillfocused Senior Member

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    Congrats on your MCAT score!

    And kudos to the DMU child psych grad!!!!!!

    I have no question that DMU has graduated some very successful physicians and that it has many highly qualified students.

    But, what about the presistent rumor that DMU matriculants have the LOWEST MCAT scores and grade point averages of ANY medical school in the United States?

    This rumor (myth) has been repeated in multiple threads on the site.

    Personally, I don't believe it.

    Out of all the DMU "myths," I find this one to be the most damning.

    But, could someone please provide some hard evidence to the contrary?????????????????
     
  15. grkbuckeye

    grkbuckeye Senior Member

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    WHO CARES!!!! once your in, your in. get off this MCAT and GPA kick! i dont go to DMU (starting CCOM in the fall), but im sure that those who do go to DMU could CARE LESS what their schools average GPA and MCAT score is!!! In the end they will be called "doctor" just like the students who graduated from WashU (they are numbers crazy there).
     
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  17. Katie1822

    Katie1822 Senior Member

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    I'm a first year at DMU, and I agree with the previous post that MCAT and undergrad (even post grad) GPA mean very little to any of after classes have started rolling. However, since I was in your shoes a year ago, I understand your for more information. I did some searching but it seems that short of the US News & World report ranking thing, there isn't exactly a web site that has a big comparison. But, from that web site I got that last year's (my class) average MCAT would have been between a 24 and 25. Which puts us below most of the top 40 schools (keep in mind MD and DO combined there are much more than 40 med schools). When I was applying average MCAT was a 3.4 or a 3.5, I think...I've lost some memory of the before times. Anyway, I did find one web site that did do a big comparison but the info is 4 years old. I'm thinking, that overall things can't have changed too much in 4 years esp. since 4 years is nothing compared to the 104 years DMU has been established. <a href="http://www.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/healthstats/natmedstatscomp.html" target="_blank">statitics thingy</a> Ok, I hope that works. The one thing I know did change, was that at that time we were Unversity of Heath Scienes COM. I think my class was higher than the scores listed for 97, but then again, all schools may have gone up. Now, all this info is not supplied by the university. So, if you are really, truly curious and concerned, I suggest you call DMU. I know for a fact that the admissions office has compiled my class's stats and they would be happy to share. I'm getting a bit fuzzy as to what even my gpa and MCAT were, course right now, I'm more concerned about the 350 pages of notes I need to review (again!) for my Pathology exam tomorrow. Anyone ever try that under-the-pillow-osmosis-thing? I'm getting desperate :)
     
  18. macman

    macman Senior Member

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    I have an exam tomorow am so i'll keep this short-I don't have an answer on the mcat/gpa thing but if its a rumor then what is it based on? Probably horse ****! I do know one thing- our COMLEX scores are at or slightly above the national average-that means a whole lot more.
     
  19. macman

    macman Senior Member

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    stillfocused- I am still curious as to the source of your "damning" rumor......
     
  20. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator

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    so any answers to macman's questions stillfocused?? What are the sources to which you are pointing to regarding the "damning" rumors?

    mikeaparker, not sure if you'll see this but what other facilities are you looking for??? I feel we have all the is necessary for us students to be successful here. We have lecture halls, OMM labs, Anatomy labs, research laboratories, gym, cafeteria, offices, library, etc.... what else are you lookin' for?

    For those of you reading this.... before arriving at DMU, I've search through all the postings here at studentdoctor and many of them made me apprehensive.... some are true and many are false accusations about DMU.... Now I'm attending DMU I DO NOT regret attending here at all.... I can definitely say that not many schools have the type of atmosphere, camaraderie, and opportunities that DMU has to offer....

    Don't sweat the small stuff.... Congratulations to those who've decided to attend DMU.... See you next year.
     
  21. BacteriaER

    BacteriaER Member

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    vietcongs

    Are you really Vie^.t Co^.ng man?
    Anyway, i'm in Des Moines too. Want some ideology chats, i.e, capitalism vs. communism?

    Hehehhee.

    B
     
  22. sidebentleft

    sidebentleft Junior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Popoy:
    <strong>so any answers to macman's questions stillfocused?? What are the sources to which you are pointing to regarding the "damning" rumors?

    .... some are true and many are false accusations about DMU.... .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">--------------------------------------
    Source: USNews and world report

    <a href="http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/beyond/apps/med_srch.htm" target="_blank">http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/beyond/apps/med_srch.htm</a>

    use the above link, search by mcat. You will find that DMU is 4th lowest amongst US med schools. only Pikeville, Lake Erie, and West Virginia have lower MCAT averages.

    What accusations are "false"? I have seen lots of opinions expressed, but never a misrepresentation of facts.
     
  23. sidebentleft

    sidebentleft Junior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by macman:
    <strong>
    My goal was not to sell DMU, I'm not getting paid here-</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Really? Are you not going to be a fellow in the OMM dept? that has quite a financial incentive.
     
  24. drchris33

    drchris33 MSIV

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    To me, MCAT and GPA's really don't mean squat once you are in med school. All of us worked extra hard to get where we are. I did not even think about what school has the lower averages. To me, every medical school is going to teach us relatively the same information. Some maybe slightly better than others. Some of us might have gone to bigger universities where the classes are harder and weren't able to score high in some classes.
    Me personally, I went to a Division II school for undergrad, then decided to go to med school after I got my BS, so I went to a junior college for my pre recs for med school for two reasons: money wise it was much cheaper. And second, I knew the class size would be smaller and I would have the opportunity to ask more questions in the tougher subjects. I did not score very well on the MCAT (21N) but I did manage to score two interviews: DMU and UHS. I was waitlisted at DMU and accepted at UHS.
    Plus you really need to look at the school itself to see if you feel at home at the school. If you have any doubts, you should not go there. I loved DMU when I was there, possibly a little better than UHS, but found many favorable reasons to attend UHS, one being geographically.

    Good luck choosing a school.

    Chris <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" /> :p
     
  25. drchris33

    drchris33 MSIV

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    Just to add to that last post--
    discussing gpa and mcat scores in med school is the same as discussing your sports statistics from high school while you are in college; it doesn't matter anymore. Sure bragging about your yards rushing as a high school running back or your three-point percentage in high school is fun, but it isn't relevent anymore
     
  26. Stillfocused

    Stillfocused Senior Member

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    As the to the source of the rumor in question, I have read it in some of the anti-DMU threads on SDN. I think that it might have been repeated in last year's rather long rant. But, I am not really motivated enough to track it down with a search. Feel free to find; its there.

    I never believed the rumor but I had not heard it effectively answered either. DMU is a venerable school in the osteopathic tradition and it has gotten a lot of bad press on this site in the last couple years. Thanks for clearing things up in this regard.

    What are some other DMU myths that need busting?

    I have the sense that many people think that DMU's rotations are really sub-par.

    Also, I have the sense that there is an antagonistic relationship between DMU and UofI and also with other allopathic powers in Iowa.
     
  27. Stillfocused

    Stillfocused Senior Member

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    GPA and MCAT scores are an important factor when deciding about a school. They say something about the intellectual caliber of your peers. Not only does it reflect the intellectual climate that you will be living in for four years but it reflects the total pool of people that will be available to form study groups and who is there to form life long friendships with.

    That said, there are more important factors in deciding on a school than "prestige." I think that the most important factors in an individuals decision about a school should be more qualitative information like "comfort level" and "fit"; does a school feel like home to you?
     
  28. Katie1822

    Katie1822 Senior Member

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    Stillfocused...I'm also a native Iowan. My parents are U of I alum and I have friends that go there. It is a good school but I had undergrad classmates that went there and they were occasionally snotty people. I'm trying not to stereotype :) U of I is one of the most competitive med schools in the midwest, only accepting like 90 (?) instate people per year. They turned down a few of my undergrad classmates that had all the "right stuff." They seem to make people wait a year or two before accepting them. They have excellent research and a good reputation. However, there is some animosity b/c DMU students tend to find the Iowa students less friendly but that can be stereotyping. Plus there was the time that DMU (or whatever our name was at the time) nearly got integrated with U of I. Really though, we don't think too much about the U of I students, no time and they are 2 hours away :)
     
  29. macman

    macman Senior Member

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    With regard to all this MCAT/GPA stuff-while its probably true that if all your class mates have 40s on their MCATs they are smart cookies, there are also people that score low that are plenty smart and will make great physicians. Personally, I put more stake in board scores, these have a much greater effect on your career. No one ver sees your mcats except the med school, once your in, they do not matter at all.

    However, thank you for providing a source.

    To respond to the person that implied I was getting 'paid', I find your comment unprofessional. Yes, the fellowship has financial 'benefits', but I neither work for admissions or other aspect of the administration. Actually it does not take high level math to calculate that doing the fellowship is actually a financial loss to a student. What axe are you grinding?
     
  30. DogWalker

    DogWalker Junior Member

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    Settle down, kids! I agree that it is ridiculous to compare stats of schools, but when I was a pre-med I poured through those lists of stats as though they were the Word of God.

    My MCAT and pre-med grades were pathetic. I was blessed to be accepted ANYWHERE and gleefully signed up at DMU, the only school to interview me. I was a horrible student and came very, very close to flunking out of DMU during my first year. That's when I learned what a great school it is.

    First of all, nobody held my hand. They made it clear that if I wasn't cut out to be a doctor, they'd be duty-bound to get rid of me. Secondly, nobody turned me away from their door. I showed up at various faculty member's offices for private tutoring and even the occasional pep talk. I felt like a valued member of that community, even though I was barely hanging on academically. Thirdly, DMU offered me choice. I wanted to travel for my third year clinicals, which I did, but during my fourth year I chose to stay in one city for family reasons. The flexible clinical options let this happen for me. Fourthly, I got a great education. After performing very well on parts I and II of COMLEX (despite my rocky start), I was actively courted by several allopathic residency programs. I was told by at least four different attendings that I functioned more like an intern than a student, and I wasn't doing anything differently than my other DMU colleagues. DMU taught me (and the rest of us) to be self-reliant and self-motivated in pursuit of our education.

    Now only two months shy of graduation, I would not trade my DMU experience for another, although I wouldn't mind winning the lottery to pay off my student loans. Anyway, I'm a better person and, I think, will be a good doctor because of DMU. You make whatever decision you need to be happy, but you could do worse than go to a friendly school that teaches you to be proactive in determining your own future.

    Thanks for letting me vent.
     
  31. CUBuffsgrad98

    CUBuffsgrad98 Member

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    Ok, so I looked up the us news and world report site. It is true that DMU has one of the lowest MCAT scores. The average is 8.1. However, when you look at it, it is lower than other schools by numbers like .1-.8. Really, when a school has the average of 8.3 vs. 8.1, does it really make a difference? I would assume they are all within the same standard deviation. Also, on the very same site, it shows DMU to have the 3rd highest GPA of all Osteopathic schools. So if you want to take those numbers into account, DMU is helping to lead the way in terms of GPA.

    Yes, in some manner these numbers do matter because they represent the standards and intellect of the school and students, respectively. However, what really matters is how many pass the boards. The GPA and MCAT are no longer an accurate representation if there is not a strong correlation between those scores and those that pass the boards. I do know DMU is on the higher end for osteopathic schools in terms of passing the boards. You can have the greatest GPA/MCAT or the worst......none of it matters if you dont pass the boards.
     
  32. macman

    macman Senior Member

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    first sorry for going off before-my whole point of this thread was to avoid negativity.

    Dogwalker-thank you for your words of wisdom
     
  33. flathead kid

    flathead kid New Member

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    Stillfocused,
    when looking at any osteopathic school, there is less emphasis on gpa and mcat scores than compared to allopathic. However, the reason for this is that the osteopathic schools generally have a slightly higher age group, and has students that have already been out in the real world working, and this experience is recognized as more valuable than gpa and mcats. Osteopathic schools tend to have higher percentages of students that were nurses, paramedics, pa's, pt's, dpm's, etc. when I applied to medical schools last year, most med schools had an average MCAT within about 1 point, and a GPA within about a 3.2-3.5 span. I do know that there are a lot of allopathic schools that have ridicuolouly low mcat scores (6-7 averages). these were primarily state schools that pretty much took only residents of thier state and were trying to fill classes. I think one was in tenn. and one in Rhode island if I remember correctly. Alabama also had some pretty low MCATS, but again the classes were 100% in state.
     

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