DMU the HARVARD of Podiatry Schools

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
D

DrMushroomFoot

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
118
Reaction score
4
...
Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
DrMushroomFoot said:
..."This is a test administered after completion of residency training. ..." said R. Tim Yoho, dean of the College of Podiatric Medicine and Surgery...
Click to expand...
That's about all you need to read^^
You take ABPS cert exam at least 4yrs after pod school graduation (it's not allowed earlier)... avg is more like 8-10yrs after you get your DPM diploma.

I would say those figures have very little correlation with where someone went to pod school... much more based on the individual and their residency training. If anything, you could *maybe* say that it suggests DMU grads do better in the residency match and/or they're more self motivated studiers than the national avgs... but even those would be a sizable stretch.

Good job nonetheless... it's nice to have pride in your pod school.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Must be something in the corn over there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Feli said:
I would say those figures have very little correlation with where someone went to pod school... much more based on the individual and their residency training. If anything, you could *maybe* say that it suggests DMU grads do better in the residency match and/or they're more self motivated studiers than the national avgs... but even those would be a sizable stretch.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
The something of something isn't really anything at all...just sayin'.
 
I have been involved in residency education for over 25 years. Over the years there have been statements that this school is better than that one or that one is the best. The "Harvard" argument. Early on it was Temple and Scholl and over the decades others have claimed the right to be called the best. NBPME pass rates, residency placement, and ABPS qualification and certification pass rates all have been used to prove the point.

My observation about who succeeds is that it is not school related but more related to the individual. The residency programs I have worked with have always tried to select the best (as I would assume most programs do). There have been years where we had a variety of schools represented and others where a school had a majority. Good residents have come from all of the schools (obviously we have not had a Western student and we just got our first Arizona student) and yes the weaker ones have represented most of the schools.

Perhaps certain schools do better with weaker students (allowing them to rally) and smaller class sizes seem to naturally increase competition and thus perhaps bring in better students to start. Older schools may have longer ties with better externships but may be more hesitant to change their systems/faculty. The schools seem to tout good years and ignore the bad ones. When a school has a tough year the blame is often placed everywhere but the school.

Successful people typically work hard and do their homework when researching a school. They ask the right questions and they are not worried so much about which school is better but is this school a good fit? I would venture to say that a applicant (and their family) that grew up in a larger city and is accustomed to city life may have adjustment problems going to a school in a small town and vice a versa. Some students excel with intense rapid fire exams ( a natural driving force for a student that needs to be pushed) and others prefer a slower paced educational approach. For some, being close to home allows for a support network and others do better far away from perhaps previous baggage. Students are people and thus unique in their own ways. The school they pick should be about how will they fit in or will the geographic region and educational style of the school help in their success.

BTW the Ivy league schools do have excellent reputations. I was selected to 2 out of high school but was forced to go to a large state school for financial reasons. The same holds true here as above. Not everyone who graduates from Harvard is a super star and the state schools have produced some national heros and legends. Yes the school name may open some doors for you but in the end it will come down to how good you are. It's always the individual.
 
dtrack22 said:
A couple of thoughts:

-Schools who have higher than average board pass rates, lower attrition rates, either consistently (over the last 5-6 years) or those who have seen dramatic improvements in the last couple years...are doing something right. Even if that "something" is simply being more selective when admitting students. Contrary to what some posters on these forums believe, it is NOT just dumb luck.

-There are too many people/programs who are settling for mediocrity within our profession. Students and programs alike who think that riding the coat-tails of a "name" or past reputation is a substitute for hard work and educational advancement. ie I go to DMU therefore I'm going to match without having to really do anything. Or, we have been around since WWI and therefore must be a great program.

-Our profession is too concerned with rainbows and butterflies. Not all residency programs are created equal, some are simply better or worse than others. The same can be said for residents, students, applicants, and even schools. But of course, we can't hurt anyone's feelings. So go wherever you'd like, get whatever grades you like, get whatever training you'd like because in the end you will be a podiatrist...just like everyone else.

-There is nothing wrong with competition. Competition amongst schools, externing students, residents, etc. Of course, balancing the competitive nature with humility and courtesy can be tough, but very do-able.

-I find it interesting that we want to be like allopathic schools/physicians yet refuse to act like them. Especially in regards to the transparency, or lack there of, coming from our "leadership".
Click to expand...

I can show you students from every school that have been great and bad. It's the individual plain and simple. Those who do apply themselves and work hard. But yes I agree as I have stated time and time again it's all about who is and shouldn't be accepted in the first place.
 
Yes there are other variable to consider as well such as communication skills, attitute, etc. But honestly I believe GPA should be given more weight and taken more seriously by residency programs, attendings, residents, and the students themselves.

It is at our program but we have had some 4.0s that could nail an exam but when it came to a logical clinically based thought process they were terrible. Or they were arrogant, had poor communication skills, or had a personality that spelled trouble politically. But that said a good applicant with a 4.0 usually trumps a good one with a 3.0.
 
Podfather said:
I can show you students from every school that have been great and bad. It's the individual plain and simple. Those who do apply themselves and work hard. But yes I agree as I have stated time and time again it's all about who is and shouldn't be accepted in the first place.
Click to expand...
This is really the bottom line. Performance is intrinsically based on the person holding the book... the pencil... the scalpel. Some have tiger blood, some not so much ;)

The schools and residency training can certainly help. I hope to be actively involved with pod med education at some level (students, residents, or CME), but the education is just the vehicle... you still need a good wheelman more than anything else. :prof:
 
dtrack22 said:
It's too bad that some schools have no issues with handing students "the keys" to the car before they even sit down for the interview...
Click to expand...

Your constant superiority complex and this circlejerk of a thread both make me sick.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Podfather said:
Yes there are other variable to consider as well such as communication skills, attitute, etc. But honestly I believe GPA should be given more weight and taken more seriously by residency programs, attendings, residents, and the students themselves.

It is at our program but we have had some 4.0s that could nail an exam but when it came to a logical clinically based thought process they were terrible. Or they were arrogant, had poor communication skills, or had a personality that spelled trouble politically. But that said a good applicant with a 4.0 usually trumps a good one with a 3.0.
Click to expand...


The year I graduated from school, 3 of the 6 students that scrambled were in the top 10 of my class. All residency programs want to see reasonable grade but I think we'd all agree that there are a lot of other factors that play into it as well.
 
Then lets all get positions high in the schools and make changes. I know we all believe adcoms read these boards, and they do, but they don't take any of it seriously. Changes need to happen, and people throw around solutions all day, but who is truly affecting change? It doesn't matter what we say, capitalism rules this country, rules politics, rules our educational system, etc. I could graduate and become the head of a school, but who's to say I won't just see dollar signs in every decision after taking on that role. Please provide specific ideas for improvement and I will do each one that you list, and then follow up on this thread.
 
If high ABPS pass rates are correlated to DMU graduates, and DMU graduates eat a lot of corn, then we must be able to conclude that high ABPS pass rates = Iowa CORN!
 
A lot of Iowa's corn is used for feed (ie cattle and/or Iowa women)...you can't really tell how much of it is Iowa and how much is from Nebraska (unless you are strictly buying from the farmer's market)...

I hear the best corn is grown in Manhattan anyways...
 
As a current student, I was told personally by the Dean that Temple has been number 1 for graduates passing the ABPS exam for the last 15 years. As usual, I have doubt I will be called a liar or asked for a scanned image of a memo, etc. I simply ask that you ask your dean point blank who was number 1 in the ABPS pass rate data and see if I am wrong. Thank you.

PS

The original harvard of podiatry is still king despite the chorus of DMU kids who come on here and bully people
 
I don't think the argument should be over the ABPS boards. You don't take the qualifiers until you're finishing residency and the certification exams come years into practice. You could argue that some RESIDENCY PROGRAMS better prepare their residents for the ABPS board qualifiers. This has little to do with what school you attend. The discussion should be on NBPME exams. These are the exams that you take based on your knowledge acquired in podiatry school. And I do believe that some schools better prepare students for these exams.
 
Ankle Breaker said:
Can you ask your dean how many of the P4s from the "original harvard of podiatry" didn't match this year? Students who attend the "other" podiatry schools want to know.
Click to expand...

woah now which is is, the ABPS boards statistic or is it the match statistic? becuz you started with one now ur changing it when it doesnt fit your mold. :scared:
 
misskittyPA said:
As a current student, I was told personally by the Dean that Temple has been number 1 for graduates passing the ABPS exam for the last 15 years. As usual, I have doubt I will be called a liar or asked for a scanned image of a memo, etc. I simply ask that you ask your dean point blank who was number 1 in the ABPS pass rate data and see if I am wrong. Thank you.

PS

The original harvard of podiatry is still king despite the chorus of DMU kids who come on here and bully people
Click to expand...

I am not calling you a liar and I didn't go to DMU. I know being anonymous doesn't help but: Of course the Dean said that. Ask him to show you the proof. I can assure you you will never see a paper comparing the schools or anything else that supports that.
 
Last edited:
As far as match statistics...unofficially I believe there are 3-4 students who have not matched. That is not the total number of students who scrambled but the number left after scrambling...I believe

Ask him to show you the proof. I can assure you you will never see a paper comparing the schools or anything else that supports that
Click to expand...

This information was presented to a set of students in a meeting with the dean as a graph. It had lines representing all the schools. The other lines were not labeled so I am unaware as to how the other schools have done, the only line labeled was Temple.

if you do have great numbers (in any category) wouldn't you brag about it on your website, in a newsletter, etc.??? Especially since 9 programs are all competing for a limited # of quality applicants
Click to expand...

No. Temple is by no means perfect like DMU. My school sadly takes unqualified students but so does every school...DMU included. As to why Temple does not publish this information...as has been eluded to previous it's not a great correlation to make because it has more to do with residency training. Temple let's it decades of great students and renowned leaders speak for itself and doesn't feel the need to slam statistics in people's face.

Thank you.
 
misskittyPA said:
Temple let's it decades of great students and renowned leaders speak for itself and doesn't feel the need to slam statistics in people's face.
Click to expand...

Great point, the last thing this world needs is more statistics. It definitely needs more rumors, conjecture and hearsay.
 
right, becuz no statistics have ever been misleading. hows that go, 90 percent of all stats are made up? i could post stats here all day, and all each of you would do would be to question the source or fight about something else. it would be like this:
temple has 100% placement
well what is their abps
abps is 100% in only 43 days out
well what is their average mcat
higher than the other schools
well philly sucks corn rules rabble rabble whats their research
a lot considering the gait lab
well yeah but you don't have proof of that. where are the stats. i need to see documents published by the cia and validated by the fbi becuz your ideas go against mine and i cant ever believe i'm being swamped with propaganda from my precious school

podfather has been trying to keep you all in line this entire thread with his logic. reread the thread and focus on his posts.
 
Last edited:
First off, I shouldn't even be posting anything, because this is the DUMBEST thread, but I just can't keep quiet anymore.

It's interesting how you hear deans say this or say that. If you were a dean at a school, wouldn't you brag about how well your students/graduates are doing? I mean, it's an egotistical position to be in anyway IMO.

I'm a former DMU'er and after a year of seeing students from ALL schools, can say that no one school is dominant over another. Each has its attributes and its drawbacks. It's good students, amazing students, average students, poor students and my favorite category, students that shouldn't be allowed to treat a dead dog.

In regards to the "Harvard" statement, it's just ignorant. Didn't another school at some point have their DEAN make this statement? Hmmm, well, I know Dr. Yoho quite well and he's truely a humble man who's out to help the students. This was a student posting that comment and by no means reflects the voice of attendings and administration at DMU. If one dipsh*t from a school comes on here and claims that, it has very little merit and value, no matter what statistics he or she may have laid out.

Seriously, get over all this stupid "my school's better than your school" bs, because honestly, the only reason why people care where you went to Pod school after you've graduated is to see where you lived, they don't give a **** about what particular school you've attended.
 
I agree with densmore that this thread is stupid, but being from Temple I wanted to comment.

I will admit to having mixed feelings about the school. I loved the faculty, didn't like the admin. Thought there were great students, but too many that shouldn't have been there. It's a place that gives you all of the tools to succeed, and turns out to be a great opportunity for many, but may not be run in the most ethical/forthcoming matter. If you like the program when you visit, none of the above should prevent you from attending. If you are smart and motivated you recieve an excellent education and training.

misskittyPA said:
As to why Temple does not publish this information...as has been eluded to previous it's not a great correlation to make because it has more to do with residency training. Temple let's it decades of great students and renowned leaders speak for itself and doesn't feel the need to slam statistics in people's face.
Click to expand...

This is one of the problems with the admin. The admin is still living in the past, and not doing what it takes to keep up with the Jones'. It's like a Pirates fan talking about how good Roberto Clemente was as justification for why they are still a good ball club. Stats aren't as important as some on SDN would like you to believe, but being below average on NBPME's the last 4 years I've been here shouldn't be met by increased admissions (admissions that were over CPME caps on several occasions). I personally feel that being a proud student requires me to demand more from my program as opposed to defending obvious deficiencies. There is a reason Christman left; luckily Temple still has plenty of great faculty. If you take advantage of what is offered while in school, you will be more than prepared to do well on rotations.

misskittyPA said:
As far as match statistics...unofficially I believe there are 3-4 students who have not matched. That is not the total number of students who scrambled but the number left after scrambling...I believe
Click to expand...

Sorry if it feels like I'm picking on misskittyPA, but I hate seeing the wool being pulled over certain individuals' eyes. A little over 1 week ago there were just over 20 Temple students who didn't have a program. At that point in time, you could count the number of available seats on one hand. Some shouldn't get a programs, some did all the school asked them to and were "qualified" imo. Again, faculty did what they could, the admin just put these individuals in a tight spot from day 1.

I hope that the younger Temple posters don't have any problems facing criticism in the future, dodging tough questions will get you nowhere. Just like on rotations, some of it is warranted and if you want to be "better" then you better accept the shortcomings and work to fix them.
 
CSPM is the stanford of podiatry. Because its closest to stanford. beat that!
 
RockyIV said:
I agree with densmore that this thread is stupid, but being from Temple I wanted to comment.

I will admit to having mixed feelings about the school. I loved the faculty, didn't like the admin. Thought there were great students, but too many that shouldn't have been there. It's a place that gives you all of the tools to succeed, and turns out to be a great opportunity for many, but may not be run in the most ethical/forthcoming matter. If you like the program when you visit, none of the above should prevent you from attending. If you are smart and motivated you recieve an excellent education and training.



This is one of the problems with the admin. The admin is still living in the past, and not doing what it takes to keep up with the Jones'. It's like a Pirates fan talking about how good Roberto Clemente was as justification for why they are still a good ball club. Stats aren't as important as some on SDN would like you to believe, but being below average on NBPME's the last 4 years I've been here shouldn't be met by increased admissions (admissions that were over CPME caps on several occasions). I personally feel that being a proud student requires me to demand more from my program as opposed to defending obvious deficiencies. There is a reason Christman left; luckily Temple still has plenty of great faculty. If you take advantage of what is offered while in school, you will be more than prepared to do well on rotations.



Sorry if it feels like I'm picking on misskittyPA, but I hate seeing the wool being pulled over certain individuals' eyes. A little over 1 week ago there were just over 20 Temple students who didn't have a program. At that point in time, you could count the number of available seats on one hand. Some shouldn't get a programs, some did all the school asked them to and were "qualified" imo. Again, faculty did what they could, the admin just put these individuals in a tight spot from day 1.

I hope that the younger Temple posters don't have any problems facing criticism in the future, dodging tough questions will get you nowhere. Just like on rotations, some of it is warranted and if you want to be "better" then you better accept the shortcomings and work to fix them.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight. I wish more people would give honest perspective about their schools.
 
darazon said:
Dr Christman is a great professor, we really enjoy having him at Western.

Curious as to Temple's view on why he left?
Click to expand...

I know Rob personally. He didn't "leave" Temple. He retired (according to him) and Larry gave him an offer he couldn't refuse to not only return back to Academics, but sell a house that was already paid for and move to a place he never considered living.

He is an excellent professor and mentor. I thoroughly enjoyed having him as a professor way back when and take any opportunity I can to tell him so when I see him at the various conferences. I'm glad to know he is well appreciated at Western. He deserves all the accolades he gets.
 
Podfather said:
I am not calling you a liar and I didn't go to DMU. I know being anonymous doesn't help but: Of course the Dean said that. Ask him to show you the proof. I can assure you you will never see a paper comparing the schools or anything else that supports that.
Click to expand...

I think Temple has the most students passing the ABPS every year because we have 80-100 graduates compared to 45 from DMU. Thus by the numbers Temple is king
 
I love these mud slinging posts. I really do. It exemplifies the maturity of well educated professionals. :p
 
Kidsfeet said:
I know Rob personally. He didn't "leave" Temple.
Click to expand...

I know how this is going to play out, but what the heck. Dr. Christman did leave. He was offered a position while still at Temple. Western gave him the opportunity to be truly innovative in terms of developing and administering curriculum as he saw fit. There were obvious frustrations from several faculty members, but they all seem to really enjoy teaching and therefore stuck with it and continue to do a good job (with what they're given).

Innovative would be an antonym for the curriculum at Temple. Well, the first two years at least. Clinic is clinic and it is great here in Philly.
 
Ankle Breaker said:
Who cares



You got about 20 P4s without a residency this year and 150+k worth of debt. Not a fantastic statistic. Oh how the mighty king has fallen.
Click to expand...

9 Temple students didn't get a residency program...not 20. I'm not sure where you guys are pulling these numbers from. Temple didn't even send 20 into the scramble.
 
Well I think it is obvious that NYCPM is the Harvard of pod schools because they are somehow affiliated with Columbia, which is an actual Ivy league school.
 
Ankle Breaker said:
I think we need to all stop disgracing Harvard University by associating it with a podiatry school. I love podiatry but come on people.
Click to expand...

Perhaps when Harvard starts a Podiatry school, then that school will be the Harvard of Podiatry schools :laugh:.
 
For a medical school to be IVY League, the student must have a minimum cum GPA in the first two years of med school of 3.0 or equivalent. All the podiatry schools permit students to graduate with a minimum GPA of 2.0 or equivalent from the first two years.

The average GPA of IVY LEAGUE med students from the first two years of the curriculum is about 3.5 or equivalent. And their curriculum is just as rigorous as our podiatry schools or even more rigorous.

Just a reminder of what IVY LEAGUE really means.
 
DPMer said:
For a medical school to be IVY League, the student must have a minimum cum GPA in the first two years of med school of 3.0 or equivalent. All the podiatry schools permit students to graduate with a minimum GPA of 2.0 or equivalent from the first two years.

The average GPA of IVY LEAGUE med students from the first two years of the curriculum is about 3.5 or equivalent. And their curriculum is just as rigorous as our podiatry schools or even more rigorous.

Just a reminder of what IVY LEAGUE really means.
Click to expand...

Where are you getting these statistics from please? A link would be nice.
 
can we please stop this discussion now?
And by the way, everyone knows about the (talking like donald trump) "UUUUGE" amount of grade inflation that goes on at Ivy league schools. Princeton is the classic example, there has been published data on it. So DPMer, please go back to your room with the love of your life (the PI manual) and quit stirring up crap.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

diabeticfootdr
International Podiatry Day (IPD)
Replies
0
Views
858
diabeticfootdr
diabeticfootdr
F
  • Locked
Any non surgical podiatry residencies?
Replies
24
Views
2K
DexterMorganSK
DexterMorganSK
G
  • Locked
TUSPM Class of 2028 Roommate?
Replies
5
Views
671
Gerbil_gem19
G
DogSnoot
Medical Malpractice Litigation in Podiatry
Replies
2
Views
2K
GreenHousePub
GreenHousePub
SideQuest
What websites/blogs do you read for Podiatry info?
Replies
4
Views
2K
Shiyuan
Shiyuan
Top