DNP Now have Residency in Dermatology

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PAs are learning from the nurses. This will not stop at the name change. Once they are associates they will ask to work independently.
The first step is to stop this nonsense. The 2nd step is to stop hiring them!

I am sure there are some PAs who propose independent practice rights. One main driver to this ideology is the NEED to keep up with the NPs as a profession. If management hires a PA, they must also pay a physician to be the SP. But if management can hire a NP to practice independently, they don't need to hire that physician. The NPs growth in autonomy could spell the end of PAs. Worse yet, there are only 80K PAs - - small numbers in relation to those who make up the nursing mafia. PAs simply don't have the political power to stop it - - but the physicians do. If you physicians do get this insanity stopped with the DNPs, then it will also spell the end of the line for those few PAs who advocate independent practice.
 
I have not heard back from the AAD yet -- even if the original article mistakenly left off the N from AADN (thus making it seem like the AAD was supporting them), the AAD needs to know about this.

I have not heard back either but it appears on the other thread that the AAD is aware and investigating.
 
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As the anestheiologists have learned, superior education and service does not work. Political activism and actually doing something does work:
1. Don't join a group that employs a "derm NP"
2. Don't join a university that trains them
3. Don't refer patients to a practice that employs or trains them (best way, especially if you let them know why they are losing your revenue)
4. Make sure you tell your PCP collegues that they are refering to a practice that has their patients seeing midlevels (maybe not initially, but on followup for sure)
5. Write the AAD now
6. Let the chairs/program directors who are training these NPs what you think

Easy to squelch now. We are the ones who are training them. Hard to squelch later.

Doing those things are fine and dandy, but the only thing that really works are legal ones. Once nurses have the ability to practice independently, set up their own doctoral programs and own specialties doing all the above will make little difference in the long run.
 
I am sure there are some PAs who propose independent practice rights. One main driver to this ideology is the NEED to keep up with the NPs as a profession. If management hires a PA, they must also pay a physician to be the SP. But if management can hire a NP to practice independently, they don't need to hire that physician. The NPs growth in autonomy could spell the end of PAs. Worse yet, there are only 80K PAs - - small numbers in relation to those who make up the nursing mafia. PAs simply don't have the political power to stop it - - but the physicians do. If you physicians do get this insanity stopped with the DNPs, then it will also spell the end of the line for those few PAs who advocate independent practice.

PA's don't need to go that route. I make it a point to talk to my classmates about this DNP propaganda. They are usually pretty annoyed when they find out about it. I make another major point and tell them in the future, hire a PA, not a DNP...ever. This DNP thing could be a big win for the PA profession. I don't think any self respecting doctor would choose a nurse over a PA, especially now.
 
This DNP thing could be a big win for the PA profession. I don't think any self respecting doctor would choose a nurse over a PA, especially now.

I'm hoping it is. But like I said, PAs don't have the political clout to fight them - there's only 80K PAs, and they play second fiddle to physicians. If the physicians shut this down, then the PA profession will flourish. If the physicians don't, then the PA profession itself may be in trouble.

I, personally, will snicker a bit out loud anytime I hear a DNP call him/herself a "doctor" in a clinical setting.
 
Many PAs like NPs are looking to practice independently. This lauding of PAs here is misguided:

Example:
Robert Hollingsworth, MS, PA-C
Red Springs Family Medicine Clinic,
Red Springs, N.C.
Since Jan. 3, 2006, he's been the owner of and sole practitioner at the Red Springs Family Medicine Clinic. His supervising physician practices in a nearby town and owns 1% of the practice.

Hollingsworth's practice is one of three in a small town of about 3,500 people. He's the only health care provider at the clinic, and he sees about 25 to 30 patients a day.

"That's probably enough," he says. "Any more than that would blow me away."

The Red Springs Family Medicine Clinic has five employees, including Hollingsworth and his wife. Hollingsworth is the only one seeing patients and making medical decisions.

Although his supervising physician works about 20 miles away in Laurinburg, N.C., and is always available by phone, Hollingsworth rarely contacts him for help. He has a network of specialists and hospitals near his clinic on which he depends when patients need more than he can offer.

"Being alone is challenging. You don't have somebody else you can go to and ask a question like if you're in an office with other people," Hollingsworth says. "You have no real peers in the office to discuss things with. The responsibility for everything you do lies with you. If you work in an office with a physician, really the bottom line ends up with him. I remember having the attitude that, 'I know I'm doing the best job I can, but I ran it by the physician, and he's as responsible as I am.' Here, that's not the case. Here, I have the total responsibility. It puts a different light on everything that comes into the office."

North Carolina's strong pro-PA atmosphere helps PA owners.

"In North Carolina, PAs are so established and so well accepted that the physician or hospital group that doesn't want to recognize a PA is actually shunned by everybody else," Hollingsworth says. "There were a couple of old physicians in a hospital I worked in before who would not accept PAs. They really were looked down on by everybody else."

After he made the decision to take over the practice, Hollingsworth talked with colleagues in his area and a friend with significant experience in the business of health care. Working with experienced businesspeople is crucial to success, he says. Owning a practice requires much more than just the desire to treat patients.

PA owners need to deal with everyone from insurance companies and government agencies to information technology consultants to real estate people. Too many rookie mistakes can quickly put a fledgling practice out of business.

"A PA who wants to own a practice needs to find a consultant who has been in the dirt, who has tripped over the speed bumps," Hollingsworth says. "(Someone) who has not gotten a check for two pay periods and has dealt with belligerent patients and has had to choose his own (electronic medical records) system and all that. Someone to sit down over period of time and guide them."

After more than a year in practice, Hollingsworth is relatively pleased. The clinic has a sizable patient load and is financially viable. He's even able to find time to pursue his doctorate at the Nova Southeastern University Doctor of Health Science program in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
http://physician-assistant.advanceweb.com/Article/PA-Owned.aspx
Comment: This is NOT physician supervision, this is physician enabling of independent PA practice. Plus the guy is getting a (online?) doctorate from Nova to boot. Any bets on when he might start calling himself Dr. Hollingsworth?.
 
Many PAs like NPs are looking to practice independently. This lauding of PAs here is misguided:....Comment: This is NOT physician supervision, this is physician enabling of independent PA practice. Plus the guy is getting a (online?) doctorate from Nova to boot. Any bets on when he might start calling himself Dr. Hollingsworth?.

Yes there are some PAs who want to practice independently, however I believe they are few and far between. Furthermore, as I said before, much of this (relatively minor) drive for PA independence is likely in response to the NP/DNP's strong push for independence. If the physicians can stop/roll back NP/DNP independent practice, then PA independent practice dies on the table.

I am not qualified to speak about whether this is adequate physician supervision for Mr. Hollingsworth. In my opinion, the only person who should make that decision is Mr. Hollingsworth's supervising physician.

But, whether you think it is "sufficient" physicain oversight in this case or not, at least there is some mechanism for such oversight. If Physician's let DNPs get their way there won't be any such mechanism in place.
 
Robert is a friend of mine. his doctorate(DHSc) is an academic doctorate, not a clinical doctorate. he got it so that he could teach pa school at the professor level, not to call himself DR.
in fact most folks call him Mr. Bob, the pa.
he runs a rural family practice in a part of NC without many other medical practices. if he wasn't there folks in that community would have a significant time delay to getting needed medical care.he sees 150 pts or so a week who otherwise wouldn't be seen in a timely fashion. before you start criticizing him you need to answer this question: would you be willing to be a solo rural family medicine provider in a poor community where most of your pts had medicare or medicaid as their primary insurance(or no insurance at all)?
most physicians, even those in family medicine, would answer NO. those that are willing are too few in number at this point to cover all the communities in need of medical care.he didn't open a solo practice to do cosmetic derm and inject botox. he's treating htn, dm, helping folks quit smoking, etc in a place many folks wouldn't even want to visit. he has a multispecialty network of physicians he can consult with as needed and doesn't pretend that he is practicing medicine in a vacuum.
there are lots of folks worth picking on in medicine. robert isn't one of them.
ps: not that you care, but he is a former vietnam era medic and has been a family medicine pa for over 30 yrs.
 
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Robert is a friend of mine. his doctorate(DHSc) is an academic doctorate, not a clinical doctorate. he got it so that he could teach pa school at the professor level, not to call himself DR.
in fact most folks call him Mr. Bob, the pa.
he runs a rural family practice in a part of NC without many other medical practices. if he wasn't there folks in that community would have a significant time delay to getting needed medical care.he sees 150 pts or so a week who otherwise wouldn't be seen in a timely fashion. before you start criticizing him you need to answer this question: would you be willing to be a solo rural family medicine provider in a poor community where most of your pts had medicare or medicaid as their primary insurance(or no insurance at all)?
most physicians, even those in family medicine, would answer NO. those that are willing are too few in number at this point to cover all the communities in need of medical care.he didn't open a solo practice to do cosmetic derm and inject botox. he's treating htn, dm, helping folks quit smoking, etc in a place many folks wouldn't even want to visit. he has a multispecialty network of physicians he can consult with as needed and doesn't pretend that he is practicing medicine in a vacuum.
there are lots of folks worth picking on in medicine. robert isn't one of them.
ps: not that you care, but he is a former vietnam era medic and has been a family medicine pa for over 30 yrs.
I care, thanks for posting this.
I personally think that a majority of physician assistants have a lot of integrity in their profession. They don't walk around and cross boundaries because they can hold their own - I respect that. I think using this PA's story to incite some sort of angst is really unnecessary. He wouldn't have to be doing that in the first place if more physicians would go into primary care after all. Yet, even with his work load - he respects his job and knows when it's time to pick up the phone and call the physician. I would not trust a DNP to do the same. Because I have no respect for the great majority of them and their agenda - totally forgetting why they became nurses in the first place.
 
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I care, thanks for posting this.
I personally think that a majority of physician assistants have a lot of integrity in their profession. They don't walk around and cross boundaries because they can hold their own - I respect that. I think using this PA's story to incite some sort of angst is really unnecessary. He wouldn't have to be doing that in the first place if more physicians would go into primary care after all. Yet, even with his work load - he respects his job and knows when it's time to pick up the phone and call the physician. I would not trust a DNP to do the same. Because I have no respect for the great majority of them and their agenda - totally forgetting why they became nurses in the first place.

I don't know about Bob - but first of all the "friend" posting is biased.
How anybody can supervise a PA if it is 20 miles away????
This is not radiology...
The initial posting about BOB wasn't an attack to person - just illustrated the state of affairs.
The justification - "is better a PA than nothing because the community is isolated" is superfluous - why not a shaman then...in another more isolated community. You got my point.
2win
 
Because the shaman doesn't have that supervising physician like the PA does. Oh, and the 4 years of undergrad, and the 2 years of intense medical education/training in PA school. No, that doesn't amount to a hill of beans compared to the training and education of a physician, but much more than the average shaman or (D)NP.

The role of the PA keeps the physician in their proper place - at the peak of the hierarchy of medicine. All of their patients HAVE a physician. No, they may not see the physician, they may see the PA instead, but the physician still has a role in their care. You may disagree with the role that an individual physician takes in the management of that care (20 miles away is too far?), but you could likely do that regardless of whether or not there is a PA involved.
 
this thread has degraded. it's about dnp residencies folks....somehow pa's got pulled into it.
if you want to talk about pa residencies(many of which have been around for > 30 yrs) see links to all of them here: www.appap.org (there are even TWO in derm!)
otherwwise how about we get back to the original topic.....
 
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this thread has degraded. it's about dnp residencies folks....somehow pa's got pulled into it.
if you want to talk about pa residencies(many of which have been around for > 30 yrs) see links to all of them here: www.appap.org (there are even TWO in derm!)
otherwwise how about we get back to the original topic.....

:rolleyes:

As I recall, there is an equal number of PA and NP owned primary care clinics. Only around 15% NP practice truly alone, and many of those independent solo NPs are in rural areas.

A lot of the NPs work with the physicians and have less liability than a PA due to being independent.

If a PA makes a mistake, the supervising physician will get in a lot of trouble as well and will be held accountable.

Salaried NP by a physician can make his practice a lot of money and become less of a liability.
 
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:rolleyes:

As I recall, there is an equal number of PA and NP owned primary care clinics. Only around 15% NP practice truly alone, and many of those independent solo NPs are in rural areas.

A lot of the NPs work with the physicians and have less liability than a PA due to being independent.

If a PA makes a mistake, the supervising physician will get in a lot of trouble as well and will be held accountable.

Salaried NP by a physician can make his practice a lot of money and become less of a liability.

Except, DNPs don't want to work for physicians anymore, they want their own residencies and their own practices across the country. Hence, the expansion of independent practice rights in 28 states. Don't put sprinkles on a pile of **** and call it ice cream. It's pretty transparent what DNPs are trying to do.

Sorry, but I'd take a PA over a NP/DNP any day of the week.

Emedpa, don't worry 99% of us realize that the name change for PAs doesn't mean they want to run out on their own and start practicing.
 
Emedpa, don't worry 99% of us realize that the name change for PAs doesn't mean they want to run out on their own and start practicing.

thank you. it's really about not getting confused with medical assistants anymore. nothing more, nothing less.
 
guys wake up. PAs, DNPs, etc are practicing medicine independently all over the place. Most of the time "supervision" means saying hi in the hallway. we have and will have a 2 tiered system. the educated, higher SES people will get the M.D. care and the rest will not.
 
You guys are spending wayy too much time at the strip club.. . . .


Anyway.. I need you guys to pull some intel if you can.
What's up with the DNP Dermatology Residency program at USF?

http://health.usf.edu/nocms/nursing/...residency.html

The link for "Clinical Residency Concentrations" has been removed. Therefore, the dermatology residency section is gone (which included a welcome video and a pdf presentation). I don't have the video, but I have their pdf presentation archived. ;)

So what's going on with the program? If any of you can find out please let us know.. either post it here or you can private message me and I will post it on your behalf.

Is it possible that our seemingly insignificant voices were heard (1 email/phone call at a time)? We must follow up. Do not be lulled into apathy my friends, that's what they expect from us.
 
You guys are spending wayy too much time at the strip club.. . . .


Anyway.. I need you guys to pull some intel if you can.
What's up with the DNP Dermatology Residency program at USF?

http://health.usf.edu/nocms/nursing/...residency.html

The link for "Clinical Residency Concentrations" has been removed. Therefore, the dermatology residency section is gone (which included a welcome video and a pdf presentation). I don't have the video, but I have their pdf presentation archived. ;)

So what's going on with the program? If any of you can find out please let us know.. either post it here or you can private message me and I will post it on your behalf.

Is it possible that our seemingly insignificant voices were heard (1 email/phone call at a time)? We must follow up. Do not be lulled into apathy my friends, that's what they expect from us.

because historically derms are a rather complacent bunch, as evidenced by this 70-post thread on a perceived threat to our specialty.

that said, keep up the good work! It's people like you who make it easier for me to continue doing nothing while still reaping the benefits.
 
because historically derms are a rather complacent bunch, as evidenced by this 70-post thread on a perceived threat to our specialty.

that said, keep up the good work! It's people like you who make it easier for me to continue doing nothing while still reaping the benefits.

I think the time to worry is when we get as many threads on this topic on this forum as the "our job market sucks" threads on the Path forum.
 
guys wake up. PAs, DNPs, etc are practicing medicine independently all over the place. Most of the time "supervision" means saying hi in the hallway. we have and will have a 2 tiered system. the educated, higher SES people will get the M.D. care and the rest will not.

We have a two-tiered system. This is not what they want. They want to be the top tier.

Don't believe me?

I read it from them.

http://www.aanp.org/AANPCMS2/Publications/PositionStatementsPapers/MLP.htm
 
Hahahahahaha, did anyone else notice that they cite themselves??? Look at their references.

They are such a god damn joke. Pathetic. Completely, utterly pathetic.
 
Hahahahahaha, did anyone else notice that they cite themselves??? Look at their references.

They are such a god damn joke. Pathetic. Completely, utterly pathetic.
ALWAYS check citations and references.. always ;)
It's the first thing I look at.
 
I find that AANP post insulting to all primary pare doctors out there. This really pisses me off

"independently licensed providers, primary care providers, healthcare professionals, and clinicians."

My dad is an old school family doctor, he delivered over 1000 babies, still performs minor surgery in his office everyday, used to see patients in the ICU, Ward, Clinic, and first assist with surgeries all in the same day. The system now wants to consider him a primary care provider and these NP's with 1/1000 of the training and experience want to demand the the same title. What a joke....this has to stop, doctors across the land need to stand up for themselves and take legal action against this nonsense. NP's/DNP's are not clinicians, they are mid levels plain and simple.....To all DNP's, go to medical school, do a "real residency," your underhanded attempts to usurp our authority with political deals instead of hard work and education is pathetic. Lose the chip on your shoulder and know your role in health care, your knowledge and training will always be inferior to MD's/DO's until you actually go to Medical School and do a residency, that's why we are Doctors and your role is to carry out our ORDERS :smuggrin:.......Adios
 
They really do contradict themselves. In the first paragraph, they say they like the terms independently licensed providers, primary care providers, healthcare professionals, and clinicians.

Then in the last paragraph they argue that terms not specific to NPs are inappropriate. For instance, they state that they should not be called non-physician providers because "this term could refer to nursing
assistants, physical therapy aides, and any member of the healthcare team other than a physician."

Well....all of the terms they WANT us to use are also non-specific because they could also refer to physicians (and if not defined will most likely be interpreted as MEANING physician not NP).

What they really want is to avoid terms that could cause people to mix them up with others who have less training than they have and at the same time to promote terms that will cause people to mix them up with physicians who have more training than they have.

It would be laughable if they weren't a serious threat.
 
I find that AANP post insulting to all primary pare doctors out there. This really pisses me off

"independently licensed providers, primary care providers, healthcare professionals, and clinicians."

My dad is an old school family doctor, he delivered over 1000 babies, still performs minor surgery in his office everyday, used to see patients in the ICU, Ward, Clinic, and first assist with surgeries all in the same day. The system now wants to consider him a primary care provider and these NP's with 1/1000 of the training and experience want to demand the the same title. What a joke....this has to stop, doctors across the land need to stand up for themselves and take legal action against this nonsense. NP's/DNP's are not clinicians, they are mid levels plain and simple.....To all DNP's, go to medical school, do a "real residency," your underhanded attempts to usurp our authority with political deals instead of hard work and education is pathetic. Lose the chip on your shoulder and know your role in health care, your knowledge and training will always be inferior to MD's/DO's until you actually go to Medical School and do a residency, that's why we are Doctors and your role is to carry out our ORDERS :smuggrin:.......Adios

:thumbup:
 
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Do you guys think the AAD had a role in the removal of the USF derm DNP residency program link? After all, wasn't that the link that basically stated they had the support of the AAD in creating such a program?
 
They really do contradict themselves. In the first paragraph, they say they like the terms independently licensed providers, primary care providers, healthcare professionals, and clinicians.

Then in the last paragraph they argue that terms not specific to NPs are inappropriate. For instance, they state that they should not be called non-physician providers because "this term could refer to nursing
assistants, physical therapy aides, and any member of the healthcare team other than a physician."

Well....all of the terms they WANT us to use are also non-specific because they could also refer to physicians (and if not defined will most likely be interpreted as MEANING physician not NP).

What they really want is to avoid terms that could cause people to mix them up with others who have less training than they have and at the same time to promote terms that will cause people to mix them up with physicians who have more training than they have.

It would be laughable if they weren't a serious threat.

QFT.

I really just lost some respect for the field after reading that pdf.
 
Reading through this thread is really disturbing. Something must be done to stop these groups from obtaining a title they did not put the hard work and effort into obtaining. They're already wearing long white coats, as are other non-physician providers. We're moving towards a place of confusion, where on the surface, every provider is equal, every provider is the same...
 
What I want to know is this:

http://health.usf.edu/medicine/dermatology/education/faculty.htm

Why havent we heard from these faculty in the derm department at USF? Are they really just blindly sitting by and watching this NURSE claim that she is a dermatologist just like they are?

How many of these guys are working with this nurse? How many of them are tolerating this nonsense?

WHERE ARE YOU, DR NEIL ALAN FENSKE? YOU ARE THE CHAIRPERSON OF DERMATOLOGY RIGHT? OR DID THE NURSES TAKE THAT AWAY FROM YOU TOO?
 
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