Do any average or normal people get in????

[kandygyrl]

I just have to ask this question. I am an average student with average scores, and an average lifestyle. Of course, I believe that I have outstanding qaulities and abilities in certain areas, but in comparison to some of the students and applicants on these posts I would need to be a super hero

to get into medical school. I understand that the applicant pool has changed and that the standards have risen. But really do any average, normal, everyday people get into medical school.

I feel that my chances are becoming more slim by the day. I just want to hear from some average people who are getting in and doing good things. It would serve as such an encouragement to myself and other average yet determined students going through this very arduous process.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Meli]

What helps me along is the knowledge that my determination is above average. That and the fact that I have nothing to lose and everything to gain by giving my dreams the best shot I got. My attitude is this: I will give this everything I have and if it's not good enough, then I was not meant to be a doctor. At that point I will consider another health career because I know medicine is where I belong. The point of all of this is that I spent too much time in that place in which you are now--feeling unsteady, not good enough, smart enough, etc. You need to say FU to any negative thoughts from yourself or others. If there are people in your life who are not supportive, tell them they must be in order for you to maintain a relationship. Be very serious about your goal, believe in yourself and your abilities--you decide for yourself whether or not your life lives up to your dreams or is merely mediocre.

 

[Eddiebliss]

I got in with 3.27 overall GPA, 3.1 science GPA, and 32 MCATS...you have to be able to promote your other good qualities...having a 4.0 GPA doesn't make a good doctor.

------------------
Bliss

 

[yigit]

When I graduated from college the premed advisor told me I had "almost no chance" of getting into medical school. Three years later I have interviews at some really respectable medical schools and believe that I have a pretty good chance at getting in. The difference between me and you is that I was not willing to take no for an answer. You should be the same way. Relentless determination will get you anything you want.

 

[mpp]

Don't forget that when you see average MCAT/GPA numbers for a particular school, that means AVERAGE. You can be below those numbers and still get in to school. Check out this site:
http://homepage.mac.com/dsacco/numbers.html
It's a bit outdated but it does give a more realistic picture when it comes to medical school admission numbers.

Have no fear, there are plenty of "normal" folks out there trying to get in and succeeding. Keep your spirits up and don't forget that it's not like you only get one chance. If you do get turned down, ask why, and then try again next year.

I hope everything works out for you.

 

[Hope88]

Average...sure. Normal? Heck no!

 

[cshelz]

Originally posted by dfleis:
okay wait a second ...

WHAT THE HELL IS A "NORMAL OR AVERAGE PERSON?"

Is that someone who was born with an average or normal level of discipline?

Someone who was born with average POTENTIAL?

Or is it someone who has not worked nearly as hard as possible? Like, "I went out to the movies last night because that Chem test was gonna bomb me anyways - and hell, I was right! Oh well, a C is okay!"

I almost guarantee to you right now I am in no way biologically/neurologically superior to you. That's usually not what determines who is and who is not going to become a doctor.

The fact that you consider yourself average is kind of sad, and I hope you change that mentality - especially if you're really considering going into medicine.

Medicine is a life-long commitment. It's not a "I feel like doing this" sort of profession. This means that you have to have discipline. Not an IQ of xyz. This means you have to have confidence in yourself. Not a self-perception of mediocrity.

People who want to become doctors (even those who don't make it) are not "average" because they're pushing themselves near the limit of their abilities. Think about how many people don't live up to their potential.

Average is when you decide that you're average and not capable of sacrificing certain activities or things for the sake of studying.

All the best to you,

David

Hi,

What you said is very true, one must have confidence, not just to get into Medical School but also in life itself.This is easier said than done. I find myself believing what others say at times, but I am the only one who really knows what I am capable of.

So I say go for dreams and know that you can do anything if you believe that you can.

Good Luck
Michelle

 

[newfocus]

Kandygyrl

I agree with the others when the say you shouldn't call yourself 'average'. Average people dont get into medical school. Now "less than perfect" people with 'average' scores do have a chance. At least I hope so becasue thats where im at now. My scores may not be the best but I work hard at being a well rounded applicant with alot of other amunition for the entrance battle. Have you already applied to Med schools? If not how far along are you in the pre-med process?

 

[abbeydesert]

I've often wondered the same thing about "average" or "normal" people- not so much with regard to grades or MCATs, but rather with regard to life experiences. It seems that most medical schools prefer students from upper-middle and upper-class backgrounds- those who attended prestigious undergraduate colleges, spent summers on medical missions in Africa, have published research in peer-reviewed journals, etc. Why is that? Most of our patients are NOT superstars- they are "normal" "average" people who work hard for a living, often face tough economic times, and send their kids to a community college or state university if they're lucky. Patients don't care what we've published or if we've ever even been to Africa, but they would like a competent, compassionate physician who will listen to them and who really cares about them. What about us "normal" people who worked 40+ hours a week in fast food to put ourselves through community college? If we can achieve a respectable MCAT score, why should it count against us that we didn't attend an Ivy? It seems to me that schools should admit more "normal" people to medical school- people who have clearly demonstrated their ability to handle the rigors of a medical curriculum, but can relate especially well to "regular" people and are not necessarily from the traditional upper-class background. Unless a school is primarily interested in training researchers and academic physicians, I think it would make sense for most of its students to reflect demographics of the population.
That said, in three rounds of medical school application, I've found that most schools aren't interested in applicants from working class backgrounds. They profess an interest in so-called "non-traditional" applicants, but as someone observed on another thread, "non-traditional" means a 24-year-old rather than 22-year-old who took a year off to start a medical clinic in El Salvador. So-called "disadvantaged" applicants are also supposed to be of interest, but, in practice, this category is generally restricted to URM's.
Incidentally, I've finally been accepted to two schools this cycle, so I'm not writing out of bitterness at all...just a genuine question about why we DON'T have more "average" people in medical school.
Best wishes to all the "average" folks out there!

 

[wooo]

I am not average at all. I am above average in weight, age, head size as compared to the rest of my body, and I have an above average wife. I am below average in wealth, looks, charm and MCAT scores.

 

[KMorris3]

We are all average. We are all normal. All of you who think you are "special" because you're going to medical school need to wake up. Take pride in your profession, not in yourself.

 

[wooo]

apparently you are below average on your computer skills.

Just a joke!

 

[Nanon]

Abbey - you make some excellent points. In fact, lately I have been growing weary of the constant push to be someone I'm not. Lately I was asked to come up with a stereotype for a linguistics class, and I used the stereotypical medical school applicant. Almost everything I said didn't apply to me at all, but it was accurate.

Yesterday I told my mentor/advisor that I'm seriously considering taking my hat out of the ring. I guess after 5 years of pre-med conferences, where I've been told repeatedly that I need to BE the stereotype, I've just burned out on the process. Just last week, I asked a recruiter from Mayo about my age being a factor. He held up a picture of an older graduate from last years class and told me, "This woman is in her late 30's and has a husband. She's also a PhD in biochemistry." And I was left to ask myself, what exactly does this have to do with my situation, a 32 yo junior who had to fight my way into Berkeley?

Last night my mentor sent me an e-mail about a study that's being conducted through UCSF and UCB about why there isn't more diversity in the applicant population. They want to ask students who have dropped out of pre-med why they made that choice. I had to laugh - I mean, isn't it obvious? I guess not, so I'll be participating in the study...

Nanon

[This message has been edited by Nanon (edited 02-16-2001).]

 

[kandygyrl]

abbeydesert,

I am glad that at least you understand the question that I asked. I do consider myself normal and average and that is in no way a bad thing. How can you possibly identify with patients when you believe that you are better then they are?

Now let me clarify my question further. I did not do a year in Africa starting a volunteer health clinic. I do not have a rock band that performs AIDS charity concerts and I do not have a 4.0 on a 4.0 scale. My determination in becoming a physician was never the question. I just wanted to know if there were others out there like me. I have applied to medical school before and I was accepted however I could not attend at that time (3 years ago). I have never given up my dream hence re-application. I am just wondering about the qualities of the current applicants. Are they real?

Finally, I don't think that there is anything wrong with being normal and average per se. As stated in a previous post I have several outstanding qualities (at least from my point of view

). I just think that it is interesting that there seems to be a perception that someone must save the world, cure all diseases, and have time for unusual hobbies in order to be a viable medical school applicant.

I appreciate all of the responses. But I am a little surprised about how the question was perceived. Next time I will word my questions more carefully.

Kandy

 

[kandygyrl]

Originally posted by wooo:
apparently you are below average on your computer skills.

Just a joke!

Hey,..

it is about 0700 in the morning here and I am still a little sleepy. But that definitely woke me up. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Kandy

 

[Cobragirl]

After finding out that I've now been waitlisted at a THIRD school (3 for 3 so far!) I HAD to ask my pre-med advisor WHAT'S UP??? He has connections to the school I just got waitlisted at and was able to talk to my interviewers. Apparently, they didn't like it when I told them "I had NO idea where I'd be in 10-15 years". Now, I qualified my answer by telling him that 10 years AGO, I was a highschool dropout, practically living in the streets, so I had LEARNED through experience that there is NO WAY to KNOW where you'll be (look at me now!). I told him I hoped I would be practicing medicine (I didn't say I "would" be, SPECIFICALLY because I thought it would sound pompous!) Apparently, he concentrated on the first statement and decided that I wasn't "committed" enough to medicine.

Let me tell you (for those of you that AREN'T dropouts)...getting through college with that kind of background takes commitment...to get through well enough to be competitive for medical school is a WHOLE "NUTHER BALL GAME. Not to mention the MCAT, the application process, the MONEY for fees, etc, etc. I wouldn't have been sitting in front of him if I WASN'T COMMITTED!!!

They always say "be yourself" in your interviews (I'm very outgoing and make easy conversation)...and my pre-med advisor said "myself" was a shoe-in. Apparently, the schools DON'T want to hear the truthful answers...they want to hear whe "right answers"!

SO next time I go, maybe I'll just tell them that my life-long dream has been to serve URM's in BFE while making $40,000 because I am so altruistic that money doesn't matter and I thrive on being overworked and underpaid. In addition, I NEVER have bad days, I have no weaknesses, and I have the answer to ALL of Medicare's problems.

PS-sorry for the rant...had to get it out before my NEXT interview....

 

[Annihilator]

Originally posted by kandygyrl:
Now let me clarify my question further. I did not do a year in Africa starting a volunteer health clinic. I do not have a rock band that performs AIDS charity concerts and I do not have a 4.0 on a 4.0 scale. My determination in becoming a physician was never the question. I just wanted to know if there were others out there like me. I have applied to medical school before and I was accepted however I could not attend at that time (3 years ago). I have never given up my dream hence re-application. I am just wondering about the qualities of the current applicants. Are they real?

Yeah! I hear you! There a lots of people in my class who have been to Africa, met their spouse in Antarctica, started this national organization or that. And then there are people like you and me. The key is selling what you do have, what sets you apart from others (no matter how seemingly mundane it seems to you). For example, what are you doing in Germany? That could make for a good story. Just re-think everything that you've done, and put a new spin on it; how would it make you a better doctor (not necessarily a better med student).

 

[youngjock]

I have said this before.

We need more med. schools! there are law schools that operated at night.

is there really a "NEED" for physician assistant? I don't know if any other countries that has pas at all!

doctors definitly want to keep more money for themselves. Seriously, lots of times, nurses, PAs work just as hard as doctors, but their pay are so much less.

many of the med. students are really in the profession just for the money. now someone probably will jump out and argue that if we pay doctors less money, then we won't be able to attract the smart students.

That is not really true. There are so many career choices, can we say that all those low pay jobs don't have smart people?

 

[Edog]

I'm as normal and average as they come. My total GPA was about a 3.7 and my MCAT was 24 (yuck). The only experience I had was a few months worth of volunteering at a local hospital. However, out of luck, I got interviews to my two state schools and really sold myself at the interviews (thank goodness I only had to apply once and got into both schools). To be honest, I didn't think I had a snowballs chance in hell. Just remember that it's not ALL numbers. If you can get to the interview and convince them that this is what your heart is set on...then you always have a chance! Good luck

 

[praying4MD]

Edog: your story is a real inspiration to those of us out there struggling with the prospect of applying this summer with less than average MCATs and a good GPA. thanks for the much needed uplift!

 

[Cobragirl]

Kandygyrl,
As you probably read above, I too, was getting a bit burned out on trying to be someone I'm not for the interview committees...but guess what, I guess one of the committees DID see that I was a "real, average, normal" person (look at my background...can't get any more average than that) and LIKED it. I got accepted to a great school this weekend...one I though I would have to write off pretty soon! Don't give up! There IS light at the end of the tunnel...you just have to keep telling yourself you want to reach it! Good Luck!


PS- while my gpa is pretty high, my MCAT was LOW for this school, so don't give up hope if you don't get that coveted "30+"!

Karyn

[This message has been edited by Cobragirl (edited 03-06-2001).]

 

[gower]

Cobragirl: from your posts you should have been a shoo-in to most medical schools. Despite what most posters think of the attitudes of adcoms, on the whole they think more of people who did it the hard way with little or none of life's advantages; some of those people like you are now on admissions committees and appreciate the difficulties that you had to overcome.

About the how do you see yourself...question, you did give the wrong answer. When you were on the streets you could not imagine you would ever be in medical school. Fair enough. But now you will be or might expect to be. What that question is intended to elicit is have you given any thought to what area of medicine interests you NOW, at this point, even if you later change your mind. Why?
In what setting do you expect to practice: academic (teaching and research), large urban area, smaller city, rural area, individual practice, group practice, etc. Why? These are not now unreasonable questions because you are NOW on the threshhold of becoming a physician. You are not being asked to make an irrevocable commitment; they know full well that as most students progress through medical school they change their minds often, and sometimes because of grades and USMLE scores may not get their choices. Circumstances change, but do you now have some vision of where you want to go/expect to be? To say none, and compare it to the situation years ago, is frankly, thoughtless, especially coming from a person who has shown so much intelligence, common sense and maturity in her posts here.

Despite your momentary fall from grace, I have been an admirer and remain so. Let me also show that by this short Celtic (claimed by both the Irish and Welsh) piece:

May the road rise to meet you
May the wind be always at your back
May the sun shine warm upon your face
May the rain fall soft upon your fields
And until we meet again
May the Lord hold you in the palm of His hand.