DO auditions/sub-i's in MD dominant programs

[deleted996361]

I'm currently an OMS3 shooting for EM. My step1 score = 244. I am aiming for EM programs in SoCal, but most of them are MD dominant. I was wondering if it's even worth it to do sub-i's/auditions in these kind of programs with ALL MD residents, or all except 1 DO in each class? Or should I only be focusing on the former AOA programs?

I've heard that places like USC don't really care if you're a DO or not, but places like UCLA are snotty about it. Was wondering if anyone had any experience or input on this, and where I should be directing my rotations at. Thanks!

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[Sardonix]

I'm currently an OMS3 shooting for EM. My step1 score = 244. I am aiming for EM programs in SoCal, but most of them are MD dominant. I was wondering if it's even worth it to do sub-i's/auditions in these kind of programs with ALL MD residents, or all except 1 DO in each class? Or should I only be focusing on the former AOA programs?

I've heard that places like USC don't really care if you're a DO or not, but places like UCLA are snotty about it. Was wondering if anyone had any experience or input on this, and where I should be directing my rotations at. Thanks!

My best friend in medical school applied EM this year. He also had a decently high step1 and did well on step2 (for the record, multiple PDs told him EM only uses Step1 as a filter whereas they pay very close attention to your Step2). He did like 4-5 subIs at ACGME sites across the country (midwest, south, east coast, and west coast) that ranged from mid to high tier and got decent SLOEs. He applied to I think like 70 programs in ERAS and ended up with 17 interview offers, with most of the prestigious ones being the places he auditioned at.

My take is that if you can get an audition at those places, why wouldn't you? Even if they don't have DOs, if they accept you to audition that's a better opportunity to shoot your shot and open doors than any other. If they already have DOs in their residency roster, even if only a couple, that's a great sign. EM is not a surgery subspecialty--there is still bias of course, but even prestigious EM programs are starting to accept DOs. I say go for it and if you are accepted to audition there, give it your all to impress everyone around you regardless of the letters in your degree.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Agree with punching a bit high on auditions. The only thing is, with ER, you need those SLOES to be good. Might need to mix in somewhere you know is friendly as well. Almost all my best interviews came from auditions.

 

[deleted996361]

@Sardonix @BorntobeDO? thanks guys i'll take your advice and go for it , that makes me feel a lot better. do you know if they care WHERE the sloe is from, or does it just matter that the sloe itself is good ?

 

[BorntobeDO?]

@Sardonix @BorntobeDO? thanks guys i'll take your advice and go for it , that makes me feel a lot better. do you know if they care WHERE the sloe is from, or does it just matter that the sloe itself is good ?

Good is most important. Although the tier will be reflective of the kind of place you want, if the SLOEs not good it just doesn’t matter.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I was wondering if it's even worth it to do sub-i's/auditions in these kind of programs with ALL MD residents, or all except 1 DO in each class?

A rotation is probably how they got a spot at that program. My strategy for auditions is going to be either places I really want to be at location/program wise, or places that are probably reaches but not completely out of the realm of possibility.

 

[sab3156]

Considering EM is a specialty that actually seems to care about auditions, it probably makes sense to do them (compared to a specialty like IM, where things are more complicated). Check out the EM forum for more advice from residents/faculty - the information you get there will likely be more accurate for your specific situation.

 

[deleted996361]

@BorntobeDO? @sab3156 @AnatomyGrey12 thanks you guys!! i appreciate the input it helps a lot

 

[EMikate]

OP I think it is ok to go for your dream programs for Sub-I's and I wouldn't worry about the DO thing too much. However, you need to be very, very careful about where you get your SLOEs from. One bad (or even mediocre) SLOE can tank your entire application, good board scores or no. I saw it happen to many, many people this year. So maybe do some research and talk to as many people you can who rotated at these places in the past and find out if they are known for giving bad SLOEs. Some places are. I'm not trying to scare you, I just don't want to see all your hard work go down the drain over an ill-advised Sub-I!! Good luck!

 

[Chibucks15]

Any tips on if you need to do them for neuro? I've heard mixed reviews and its about time to start scheduling them.

EDIT: I'm super average on paper, good comments clinically though so feel like I'd at least look okay interpersonally and work ethic wise.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Any tips on if you need to do them for neuro? I've heard mixed reviews and its about time to start scheduling them.

EDIT: I'm super average on paper, good comments clinically though so feel like I'd at least look okay interpersonally and work ethic wise.

Isn't Neuro not competitive? An avergage STEP score can prbly match some good mid tier institutions?

 

[deleted996361]

OP I think it is ok to go for your dream programs for Sub-I's and I wouldn't worry about the DO thing too much. However, you need to be very, very careful about where you get your SLOEs from. One bad (or even mediocre) SLOE can tank your entire application, good board scores or no. I saw it happen to many, many people this year. So maybe do some research and talk to as many people you can who rotated at these places in the past and find out if they are known for giving bad SLOEs. Some places are. I'm not trying to scare you, I just don't want to see all your hard work go down the drain over an ill-advised Sub-I!! Good luck!

thank you so much for the input! that makes a lot of sense. i'll definitely ask around. so would you say an awesome sloe from a NON prestigious place will still stand out to all of the upper programs?

 

[sab3156]

Isn't Neuro not competitive? An avergage STEP score can prbly match some good mid tier institutions?

The competitiveness of a field has little to do with whether or not programs in that field are receptive to (or pay attention to) away rotations.

Any tips on if you need to do them for neuro? I've heard mixed reviews and its about time to start scheduling them.

EDIT: I'm super average on paper, good comments clinically though so feel like I'd at least look okay interpersonally and work ethic wise.

If you have a complete application (you have the letters you need, for example), it probably wouldn't hurt to try doing away rotations at several reach programs. However, geographic issues arising from this have the potential to complicate things - if you end up doing a couple of aways on the west coast, for example, it may turn off some programs in the midwest that otherwise would have interviewed/ranked you. I know that plays a role at certain programs in various specialties - probably best to ask some faculty/residents on the neurology forum. Otherwise, I don't think you need to do any aways, to be honest.

There is an older thread (started 10 years ago, but has some 2018 posts) here that you could probably bump: Neuro Away Rotations Really Help???

 

[EMikate]

thank you so much for the input! that makes a lot of sense. i'll definitely ask around. so would you say an awesome sloe from a NON prestigious place will still stand out to all of the upper programs?

Yes, I absolutely think it would. Top 10 SLOEs are worth their weight in gold..I mean I guess they don't weigh anything since they are online but you know what I mean lol. A good SLOE from a great program would be worth more than a good SLOE from a lesser known program, but A great SLOE from a lesser known program >>>>>> a bad SLOE from a "top tiered" program. Just make your choices wisely. This is truly the most important part of your application by a long shot.

 

[7000101201110]

That "1 DO in the class" may be because they did an audition. There are places that interview no DO's unless they do an AI.

EDIT: So don't think programs are "DO friendly" just because they have a DO or two. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Don't let this burn you.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

That "1 DO in the class" may be because they did an audition. There are places that interview no DO's unless they do an AI.

This. I contacted a DO resident at a program I'm interested at and they said every DO in their class did an audition there.