(nicedream)

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Say I'm a DO student who wants to get into cardiology, practicing in Fla. Fla. requires a DO internship. So, is it possible to do a DO internship and IM residency, and still get into an MD cards fellowship? The other option would be doing a dual accredited (AOA/ACGME) internship, and then an MD IM residency and cards fellowship.
Of course there are DO residencies as well, but they're all in MI, OH and IL. One more question - why are MD cards programs called fellowships, and DO cards programs called residencies?
Thanks in advance! I'm confused!
 

azcomdiddy

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I wasn't aware that FLA requires a DO internship? Interesting

Cards fellowships are difficult for MD's to attain let alone DO's. Your best bet is to do your IM residency at a hospital that offers a fellowship in Cards. That's how 90% of most IM related fellowships are attained. Therefore, you may have to out of state to do your residency in a hospital that offers fellowships if you want to be a cardiologist. Whatever you do, do your IM residency in an allopathic program if you want to secure a competitive fellowship like Cards or GI. It will just make you a more competitive candidate for a field like Cards in general. That would be my advise. And it's not all that difficult to match into an allopathic IM residency at a hospital which offers fellowships in the various subspecialties.
 

r90t

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There are more cards programs in the allopathic world, than the DO training areas, thus increasing your odds at getting in.
 

Dr JPH

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Cardiology, in any sense, is a fellowship.

I don't know where you got the idea that in the DO world it is a "residency".

Cardiology is a fellowship to be completed after a 3 year IM residency. As stated above, doing your IM residency at a site that offers a cardiology fellowship would be advisable.

As far as difficulty, cardiology is a booming subspecialty because of the money, growth potential, and job security as the population ages. Nice hours, too.
 

(nicedream)

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Originally posted by JPHazelton
Cardiology, in any sense, is a fellowship.

I don't know where you got the idea that in the DO world it is a "residency".
I got this idea from the following:

http://www.aoa-net.org/Accreditation/postdoctoral/cardiology.pdf
http://do-online.osteotech.org/pdf/sir_opplist.pdf

And other sites. Cardiology "fellowships" are referred to as
"residencies" throughout.

Thanks for the responses everyone. I guess the concensus is to do as much allopathic post-doctoral training as possible, and to do it well!! :thumbup:
 

Dr JPH

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It's just semantics.

DO cardiology fellowships are no different in length of training than MD cardiolgoy fellowships.

They both require the same pre-requisistes as well (certain DO spots you may need to do an internship year).
 

(nicedream)

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Originally posted by azcomdiddy
I wasn't aware that FLA requires a DO internship? Interesting
I forgot to address this - there are 5 states in which DO's are required to have completed a DO internship. Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Oklahoma, and West Virginia.
 

azcomdiddy

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Originally posted by JPHazelton
Cardiology, in any sense, is a fellowship.

I don't know where you got the idea that in the DO world it is a "residency".

Cardiology is a fellowship to be completed after a 3 year IM residency. As stated above, doing your IM residency at a site that offers a cardiology fellowship would be advisable.

As far as difficulty, cardiology is a booming subspecialty because of the money, growth potential, and job security as the population ages. Nice hours, too.
I don't know about nice hours. Cardiology for all intensive purposes is a very time consuming subspeciality. I know several people who decided against cardiology because of the lifestyle associated with it. That's one reason why GI has increased in popularity in the last few year. The lifestyle associated with GI is far easier with income potential being comparable to that of cardiology. And a cardiology fellowship is pretty intense too. Most medicine grads look forward to the easier lifestyle associated with their fellowship; not Cardiology fellows because they work on average 80 hour weeks AS A FELLOW. But the money, prestige and life saving nature of the work is what will always draw people to the field.
 

njdo

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Nicedream,

I too am interested in cardiology. For those states that require a DO internship to practice in (for you, FL, for me, PA), there are numerous excellent hospitals that offer DO internships. Usually those internships are/can be connected to an IM residency. You would complete the one year general osteopathic internship, and then you're usually automatically accepted to complete your next 2 years (for a total of 3 years) in the IM residency. This is not the case all the time I must warn.

Like everyone has said, the best thing to do is find an IM residency that is affiliated with a cardiology fellowship. I wouldn't worry so much about DO vs. MD in this case--most of them will be MD, or dually-accredited. There are several excellent hospitals in PA that are dually-accredited for residencies and fellowships (and luckily, they're LECOM affiliates too!). There are few true osteopathic hospitals anymore--the best thing to do is find hospitals affiliated with DO schools (LECOM, PCOM, NYCOM, etc.). These hospitals know the quality of a DO education, and have the experience of working with DO students who rotate there. I've heard some programs (residency and fellowship) have quotas for accepting a certain number of DO's...don't know how true this is, but it's a good thing for us.

Best of luck. Cardiology is a great field, but as mentioned, the hours of training and then eventual work make it a difficult choice.

njdo
 

(nicedream)

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Originally posted by njdo
For those states that require a DO internship to practice in (for you, FL, for me, PA), there are numerous excellent hospitals that offer DO internships. Usually those internships are/can be connected to an IM residency. You would complete the one year general osteopathic internship, and then you're usually automatically accepted to complete your next 2 years (for a total of 3 years) in the IM residency.

Like everyone has said, the best thing to do is find an IM residency that is affiliated with a cardiology fellowship.
The problem with this for me is that, according to the lists I found, the only DO cardiology fellowships are in Michigan, Ohio, and Illinois (not Fla.) Therefore, to do a DO internship/IM residency/cards fellowship in the same program, I'd have to go to one of these states for training. That is why an MD program would be better for me - they exist in Fla, although HARD to get into, especially for a DO I imagine. The other possibility is to do a DO intenship and IM residency at one of the numerous sites in Fla, and then try to get into an MD cards fellowship here.
 

avendesora

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Originally posted by JPHazelton

As far as difficulty, cardiology is a booming subspecialty because of the money, growth potential, and job security as the population ages. Nice hours, too.
Dude, that's truly funny. I would count the tough hours (surgeon-like) as a reason to consider NOT doing cards. Sure, you could tailor your practice to just read nucs or something, but if you want to make a "cards income" you are going to work a LOT. I agree with the other plusses of cards that you mentioned.

On the original subject -- I talked to a DO intern at one of the "Top" IM residencies that I interviewed at. She had done the DO internship, and then applied to the allopathic residency where she was completing her 2nd internship. This is not an easy route to follow, but it got her where she wanted to be.
 

(nicedream)

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Originally posted by avendesora
I talked to a DO intern at one of the "Top" IM residencies that I interviewed at. She had done the DO internship, and then applied to the allopathic residency where she was completing her 2nd internship. This is not an easy route to follow, but it got her where she wanted to be.
Yeah, this is another option - the drawback of course is having to do two internships......:scared:
 

BostonSean

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If I graduate from NSU and I am on a health professions scholarship, normally I would have to do an Army internship. However, does NSU not allow that and do I still have to do an osteopathic internship? Or does one only have to do a DO intership if they are planning on practicing in FL? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

-BS
 

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If you do an AOA residency, you should plan on doing an AOA fellowship. I do not believe that you can become state-licensed or 'board-certified' in a subspecialty by that college if you do an ACGME fellowship after an AOA residency.
 

r90t

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I did navy HPSP and my program was accredited by ACGME/AOA. Look into yours. Also, some states waive the DO internship requirements if it is due to federal service.
 

Idiopathic

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Armed forces is the exception. Most, if not all, subspec. 'colleges' (i.e. College of Cardiothoracic Surgery) require that you complete a residency and fellowship with one licensing group (AOA vs. ACGME) or they wont certify you. However, you can still perform said procedures, and I know of more than one DO who has done this. The only difference apparently is that he wont be 'board certified' in that subspecialty.

I think this is right across the board
 

pakijiga

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wait im confused.. if i do an osteo residency.. can i do an allopathic fellowship.. and vice versa.. if i do an allo residency in IM can i do a osteo card fellowship??
 

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Yes, you can do one. But you may find that you will not be granted subspec. certification. It is worth contacting the ACGME over or the respective subspec. college.
 

Dr JPH

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Originally posted by Idiopathic
Yes, you can do one. But you may find that you will not be granted subspec. certification. It is worth contacting the ACGME over or the respective subspec. college.
Yep. This can be a problem.
 

irish79

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As an added note to the thread:

Just because you go to an IM program with a Cards fellowship, don't think that they will necessarily take you. Upon talking to a DO who did her Cards fellowship at the Cleveland Clinic (she is still in contact with the Cards fellowship director), they prefer to take people for their Cards fellowship from different IM programs than their own. The reason being that they want people who will attend and then go to other parts of the country so that they spread the "Cleveland Clinic" name. I don't know if this really applies to most or any other cards programs, but that seems to be the case there.

Also, since I am interested in invasive cards too, I have done some research on the subject. Most people I talk to seem to say that if you KNOW someone at one of the Cards program, whether you are DO or MD, then your chance of getting one is MUCH greater. Just my two cents...
 

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JPHazelton said:
As far as difficulty, cardiology is a booming subspecialty because of the money, growth potential, and job security as the population ages. Nice hours, too.
Nice hours? I think Cardiologists put in some of the longest hours (on average) of any specialty I've seen. Obviously, this is variable because many docs can work as much as they want.
 

Aaron Earles

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I was thinking of Cardiology as well. I have a list of the AOA internship sites, but does anyone know where I could get a list of those sites that have a Cardiology fellowship? Thanks for the input.

Aaron
 

Aaron Earles

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Hey everyone, I did another search and found these Osteopathic Cardiology Fellowship sites. I will list each one. An * beside the name of the institution also denotes that they have an internal medicine residency program as well.

*Botsford General Hospital Farmington Hills, MI

Deborah Heart and Lung Center Browns Mill, NJ

*Garden City Hospital Osteo Garden City, MI

*Henry Ford / Horizon HS Warren, MI
(Bi-County-Henry Ford-Wyandotte)

*Ingham Regional Medical Center Lansing, MI

Mercy Heart Center / Mercy Center Mason City, IA

*POH Medical Center Pontiac, MI

*St James Hospital and Health Centers Olympia Fields, IL

*UMDNJ / SOM Kennedy Memorial Hospital Stratford, NJ
Our Lady of Lourdes

*UNTHSCFW / TCOM / Plaza Medical Center Fort Worth, TX



If anyone sees any that I might have missed, please correct me. Thanks.

Aaron
 

DireWolf

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Here's what I came up with.

Botsford General Hospital - Farmington Hills, MI
Deborah Heart & Lung Ctr - Brown Mills, NJ
Garden City Hospital Osteo - Garden City, MI
Ingham Regional Medical Center - Lansing, MI
Mercy Heart Ctr/Mercy Center-North - Mason City, IA
Mount Clemens General Hospital - Mt. Clemens, MI
Oakwood Southshore Medical Center - Trenton, MI
POH Medical Center - Pontiac, MI
St James Hospital and Health Centers - Olympia Fields, IL
Sun Coast Hospital - Largo, FL
Tulsa Regional Medical Center - Tulsa, OK
UMDNJ/SOM/Kennedy Mem Hsp/Our Lady of Lourdes - Stratford, NJ
UNTHSCFW/TCOM/Plaza Medical Center - Fort Worth, TX
 

Aaron Earles

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Thanks Direwolf,

I missed a couple of the list you provided. See you round.

Aaron
 

(nicedream)

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DireWolf said:
Here's what I came up with.

Botsford General Hospital - Farmington Hills, MI
Deborah Heart & Lung Ctr - Brown Mills, NJ
Garden City Hospital Osteo - Garden City, MI
Ingham Regional Medical Center - Lansing, MI
Mercy Heart Ctr/Mercy Center-North - Mason City, IA
Mount Clemens General Hospital - Mt. Clemens, MI
Oakwood Southshore Medical Center - Trenton, MI
POH Medical Center - Pontiac, MI
St James Hospital and Health Centers - Olympia Fields, IL
Sun Coast Hospital - Largo, FL
Tulsa Regional Medical Center - Tulsa, OK
UMDNJ/SOM/Kennedy Mem Hsp/Our Lady of Lourdes - Stratford, NJ
UNTHSCFW/TCOM/Plaza Medical Center - Fort Worth, TX
Sun Coast doesn't have a cardiology program. It's listed on aoa-net for some reason, but that's incorrect. They have Anesth, Derm, FP, IM and Gen Surg.