Do Carribean doctors get less respect than US trained doctors?

[doctor in da makin]

At the end of the day, does a doctor who graduated from say SGU or Ross get less respect from patients and other doctors than a doctor who went to school in the US?

Before everyone goes crazy, I already read alot about how SDN feels about the Caribbean. I know the odds are stacked against you if you go there.

However, I don't think anybody really discussed this topic before (forgive me if you already did).

Thoughts?

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[piii]

Once you get through residency and are an attending, your peers mostly respect you based on how good of a doctor you are. But let's face it, everyone knows why you went to the carribean. But it's really not about respect, going Caribbean inherently makes your ceiling low for residency prospects.

 

[ZPakEffect]

Once you get through residency and are an attending, your peers mostly respect you based on how good of a doctor you are. But let's face it, everyone knows why you went to the carribean. But it's really not about respect, going Caribbean ingerebtly makes your ceiling low for residency prospects.

That's one hell of a typo.

 

[To be MD]

That's one hell of a typo.

*in@Gurbybtly

 

[piii]

That's one hell of a typo.

lol i don't even know how that happened..

 

[Goro]

A doctor is a doctor.

At the end of the day, does a doctor who graduated from say SGU or Ross get less respect from patients and other doctors than a doctor who went to school in the US?

Before everyone goes crazy, I already read alot about how SDN feels about the Caribbean. I know the odds are stacked against you if you go there.

However, I don't think anybody really discussed this topic before (forgive me if you already did).

Thoughts?

 

[baratheonfire]

At the end of the day, does a doctor who graduated from say SGU or Ross get less respect from patients and other doctors than a doctor who went to school in the US?

Before everyone goes crazy, I already read alot about how SDN feels about the Caribbean. I know the odds are stacked against you if you go there.

However, I don't think anybody really discussed this topic before (forgive me if you already did).

Thoughts?

Me personally? It might be wrong, but I definitely respect Caribbean educated doctors less.
Whenever they give me advice about med school admissions I cringe and zone out.
Also when I scribed for an IM doctor who graduated from SGU in the 80s I noticed that she framed a lot of certificates in her office, but her degree was absent

 

[baratheonfire]

That's one hell of a typo.

your statement is excgarated

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Me personally? It might be wrong, but I definitely respect Caribbean educated doctors less.
Whenever they give me advice about med school admissions I cringe and zone out.
Also when I scribed for an IM doctor who graduated from SGU in the 80s I noticed that she framed a lot of certificates in her office, but her degree was absent

That's because you're a premed. In private practice, where you went to med school is irrelevant (mostly).

 

[baratheonfire]

That's because you're a premed. In private practice, where you went to med school is irrelevant (mostly).

I'm sure that it doesn't matter once you're out of residency.

 

[gyngyn]

At the end of the day, does a doctor who graduated from say SGU or Ross get less respect from patients and other doctors than a doctor who went to school in the US?

The doctors that have less respect for a Caribbean diploma are the Program Directors who prefer US grads.

 

[GinnyWeasley]

In regards to how patients view the physicians, I don't know where my primary care physician went to med school (not sure if I should haha). I do know that she is obviously board certified and is qualified to treat me, regardless of MD, MD carib, DO, etc. One of the ways I choose a doctor is through friend/family recommendation and how they felt they were treated and if they felt like the problem was solved. So I guess I couldn't care less where they went lol.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

In regards to how patients view the physicians, I don't know where my primary care physician went to med school (not sure if I should haha). I do know that she is obviously board certified and is qualified to treat me, regardless of MD, MD carib, DO, etc. One of the ways I choose a doctor is through friend/family recommendation and how they felt they were treated and if they felt like the problem was solved. So I guess I couldn't care less where they went lol.

Agreed. I know my family physician when I was growing up (and he's still my parents' doctor) is a DO. I only know where he went to school because after I started researching DO, I asked him about it.

 

[idontwatchgreysanatomy]

That's one hell of a typo.

I think it is a perfectly cromulent word.

 

[GinnyWeasley]

Agreed. I know my family physician when I was growing up (and he's still my parents' doctor) is a DO. I only know where he went to school because after I started researching DO, I asked him about it.

Exactly. At the end of the day, they all still take the same boards, regardless of where they went to school. I just want two things from my physician 1) Knowledge about my problem(s) 2) To be treated kindly by them.

 

[Levrone]

I had worn my suit on a plane returning from an interview. 2 Physicians overheard me explain to someone why I had the suit on, and told me that if they had any questions, to just ask. So I did go back and ask them some Q's. When I asked one of the guys what school he went to, he got upset and said it doesn't matter what school you go to. Then he said he went to the Caribbean. He then proceeded to berate DO schools and DO's, saying they are trained differently and poorly

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I had worn my suit on a plane returning from an interview. 2 Physicians overheard me explain to someone why I had the suit on, and told me that if they had any questions, to just ask. So I did go back and ask them some Q's. When I asked one of the guys what school he went to, he got upset and said it doesn't matter what school you go to. Then he said he went to the Caribbean. He then proceeded to berate DO schools and DO's, saying they are trained differently and poorly

Inferiority complex much?

 

[vm26]

I'm sure that it doesn't matter once you're out of residency.

Personally I don't think MD/foreign MD/DO really matters, its all about residency and fellowship but believe it or not our group recently hired a foreign trained MD and one of our partners (ironically a DO) brought this up as a concern

 

[Brorthopedic]

Personally I don't think MD/foreign MD/DO really matters, its all about residency and fellowship but believe it or not our group recently hired a foreign trained MD and one of our partners (ironically a DO) brought this up as a concern

**TRIGGERED**

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Personally I don't think MD/foreign MD/DO really matters, its all about residency and fellowship but believe it or not our group recently hired a foreign trained MD and one of our partners (ironically a DO) brought this up as a concern

I worked with eight foreign trained docs. Four were actual FMGs, two were Americans who went to the Caribbean, and one was an American who went to school in Italy. All of them did good residencies here and were excellent.

 

[libertyyne]

I worked with eight foreign trained docs. Four were actual FMGs, two were Americans who went to the Caribbean, and one was an American who went to school in Italy. All of them did good residencies here and were excellent.

I too have anecdotes to provide of the predominately family practice residencies or lack of residencies carribean trained MD's have had. There is also context for a lot of this, people who graduated from the carribean 10 years ago had different residency prospects compared to today. Does it matter once you are a licensed professional? Not really. Have I met some conscientious MD's from the Caribbean, sure. Inherent and hidden biases exist all the time and in all actuality do extend to Caribbean MD's.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm sure that it doesn't matter once you're out of residency.

It really doesn't. Other physicians only care if you will kill their patients if they refer them to you. You're judged by your outcomes. (Real outcomes, not patient surveys)

The lay person only recognizes big names for medical schools so unless you go to one of those it doesn't be matter to them.

 

[baratheonfire]

It really doesn't. Other physicians only care if you will kill their patients if they refer them to you. You're judged by your outcomes. (Real outcomes, not patient surveys)

The lay person only recognizes big names for medical schools so unless you go to one of those it doesn't be matter to them.

So we're in agreement then?

 

[Fluffy123]

I agree with the statement that once you are an attending, where you went to school matters less. I work as a scribe with a foreign doc and he is a great doctor. My own PCP is foreign trained and is a great doc.

 

[kstorm]

Funniest thing- I met a Carib grad recently who I presume failed to match and is reapplying currently and was telling me how stupid he thinks it is that it's easier to get into DO than a Carib school. Why would anyone ever go Carib when there are DO schools? Boggles my mind.

At least he does encourage people to go DO before going Carib because he knows you're pretty much guaranteed a residency if you go to med school in the US.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I too have anecdotes to provide of the predominately family practice residencies or lack of residencies carribean trained MD's have had. There is also context for a lot of this, people who graduated from the carribean 10 years ago had different residency prospects compared to today. Does it matter once you are a licensed professional? Not really. Have I met some conscientious MD's from the Caribbean, sure. Inherent and hidden biases exist all the time and in all actuality do extend to Caribbean MD's.

The eight I was talking about were mostly surgeons with two OBs thrown in. Interestingly, only one of the surgeons was an IMG. The rest were FMGs. The other two Americans were the OBs. Bias definitely exists, but it seems to end once you finish residency.

 

[Goro]

There's a moral in there.

The doctors that have less respect for a Caribbean diploma are the Program Directors who prefer US grads.

 

[baratheonfire]

I agree with the statement that once you are an attending, where you went to school matters less. I work as a scribe with a foreign doc and he is a great doctor. My own PCP is foreign trained and is a great doc.

I have more respect for foreign born doctors who were trained in their country of birth than I do for foreign trained Americans/Canadians

 

[Fluffy123]

I have more respect for foreign born doctors who were trained in their country of birth than I do for foreign trained Americans/Canadians

oddly enough, both doctors I am talking about are foreign born doctors trained in their country of birth lool

 

[GinnyWeasley]

I have more respect for foreign born doctors who were trained in their country of birth than I do for foreign trained Americans/Canadians

Do you have less respect because they went to the Caribbean for med school, and you think that was a dumb decision? Because I don't know why anyone would have less respect for someone who has taken the same boards and provides the same services as US trained doctors/foreign doctors who trained in their birth country.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I have more respect for foreign born doctors who were trained in their country of birth than I do for foreign trained Americans/Canadians

Do you have experience working with these people?

 

[baratheonfire]

Do you have less respect because they went to the Caribbean for med school, and you think that was a dumb decision? Because I don't know why anyone would have less respect for someone who has taken the same boards and provides the same services as US trained doctors/foreign doctors who trained in their birth country.

Yeah, it makes me believe that they took the easy way out. And in the past, it really was the easy way out. In the 80's and 90's FMG's didn't face the same difficulties they do today.

Do you have experience working with these people?

As a scribe, yeah. I've worked with all the categories of doctors we've discussed. I noticed that Carib trained physicians nearly always avoided saying where they went to school.
My feelings are just a personal sentiment.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yeah, it makes me believe that they took the easy way out. And in the past, it really was the easy way out. The difficulties that FMG's face today weren't nearly as bad in the 80's or even 90's.

As a scribe, yeah. I've worked with all the categories of doctors we've discussed. I noticed that Carib trained physicians nearly always avoided saying where they went to school.
My feelings are just a personal sentiment.

My experience is the exact opposite. Maybe because they are surgeons and have more confidence. Also, anecdotally (my n=20+), the two or three best surgeons I've worked with were foreign trained. Two FMGs and an IMG. I've worked with some great US grads too, but I've met maybe one terrible FMG and two or three horrible US grads. It's all kind of led me to believe that the school doesn't really make the surgeon.

 

[GinnyWeasley]

Yeah, it makes me believe that they took the easy way out. And in the past, it really was the easy way out. The difficulties that FMG's face today weren't nearly as bad in the 80's or even 90's.

As a scribe, yeah. I've worked with all the categories of doctors we've discussed. I noticed that Carib trained physicians nearly always avoided saying where they went to school.
My feelings are just a personal sentiment.

So you don't respect a doctor because of a school choice they made years ago? The majority of people don't even know what school their doctor went to. You're for sure entitled to your opinion, but I think as pre-meds we should respect our future colleagues as fellow physicians, rather than not respecting them not because they are rude or incompetent, but simply because of their school choice.

 

[baratheonfire]

My experience is the exact opposite. Maybe because they are surgeons and have more confidence. Also, anecdotally (my n=20+), the two or three best surgeons I've worked with were foreign trained. Two FMGs and an IMG. I've worked with some great US grads too, but I've met maybe one terrible FMG and two or three horrible US grads. It's all kind of led me to believe that the school doesn't really make the surgeon.

I mean, I thought the residency makes the surgeon. I'm not judging these physicians' capabilities. I just lose respect because they took the easy way out. This is purely a private sentiment.
Also what distinction do you draw between FMG and IMG? I've said before, I respect foreign born physicians who were trained in their country of birth. It's US/Canadian citizens that train abroad who I lose respect for.

So you don't respect a doctor because of a school choice they made years ago? The majority of people don't even know what school their doctor went to. You're for sure entitled to your opinion, but I think as pre-meds we should respect our future colleagues as fellow physicians, rather than not respecting them not because they are rude or incompetent, but simply because of their school choice.

It's just a personal sentiment. I have nothing but contempt for the Caribbean path. Anyone who takes this path loses at least some respect in my eyes.
Of course I don't demonstrate this in my interactions with them. I treat them as I would any other doctor.

 

[GinnyWeasley]

I mean, I thought the residency makes the surgeon. I'm not judging these physicians' capabilities. I just lose respect because they took the easy way out. This is purely a private sentiment.
Also what distinction do you draw between FMG and IMG? I've said before, I respect foreign born physicians who were trained in their country of birth. It's US/Canadian citizens that train abroad who I lose respect for.

It's just a personal sentiment. I have nothing but contempt for the Caribbean path. Anyone who takes this path loses at least some respect in my eyes.
Of course I don't demonstrate this in my interactions with them. I treat them as I would any other doctor.

I mean, I don't think the Caribbean is a good choice whatsoever. But I don't think I would have contempt. I have contempt for people (lol)/things that have personally wronged me/family/friends. The Caribbean, if we don't go to a school there, will have done nothing to us. Not trying to argue, just sharing my point of view

 

[libertyyne]

I mean, I thought the residency makes the surgeon. I'm not judging these physicians' capabilities. I just lose respect because they took the easy way out. This is purely a private sentiment.
Also what distinction do you draw between FMG and IMG? I've said before, I respect foreign born physicians who were trained in their country of birth. It's US/Canadian citizens that train abroad who I lose respect for.

It's just a personal sentiment. I have nothing but contempt for the Caribbean path. Anyone who takes this path loses at least some respect in my eyes.
Of course I don't demonstrate this in my interactions with them. I treat them as I would any other doctor.

I understand your sentiment, but is the contempt necessary? If anything I feel sorry for the recent ones who have 200K+ in debt with difficulty obtaining a residency, any residency.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I mean, I thought the residency makes the surgeon. I'm not judging these physicians' capabilities. I just lose respect because they took the easy way out. This is purely a private sentiment.
Also what distinction do you draw between FMG and IMG? I've said before, I respect foreign born physicians who were trained in their country of birth. It's US/Canadian citizens that train abroad who I lose respect for.

It's just a personal sentiment. I have nothing but contempt for the Caribbean path. Anyone who takes this path loses at least some respect in my eyes.
Of course I don't demonstrate this in my interactions with them. I treat them as I would any other doctor.

The best surgeon I know is an American who went to med school in Italy. So you view him with less respect because of his school? Or does that just apply to the Carib? Because two of the best OBs I have worked with went to SGU. The "easy" way involved being away from family and friends for a couple years on a ****ty island and taking out ridiculous loans for a 50/50 shot at residency.

 

[Lawpy]

Also what distinction do you draw between FMG and IMG?

FMG = non-US internationals who received their medical education in a foreign country before coming to US for residency
IMG = US citizen who received their medical education outside of US before coming back to US for residency

I think internationals who receive their medical education in US and apply to US for residency are considered AMGs, but @gyngyn and @Med Ed can correct me on this.

 

[Sardinia]

As a scribe, yeah. I've worked with all the categories of doctors we've discussed. I noticed that Carib trained physicians nearly always avoided saying where they went to school.

I would avoid you altogether tbh. If I got to hypothetically pick a pre-med scribe I would prefer it to be not the kid asking me about which medical school I went to when medical school is about self accountability irregardless of outside circumstances e.g. school, personal problems, and other factors.

 

[baratheonfire]

FMG = non-US internationals who received their medical education in a foreign country before coming to US for residency
IMG = US citizen who received their medical education outside of US before coming back to US for residency

I think internationals who receive their medical education in US and apply to US for residency are considered AMGs, but @gyngyn and @Med Ed can correct me on this.

I see. Also I think you're correct on that.

I mean, I don't think the Caribbean is a good choice whatsoever. But I don't think I would have contempt. I have contempt for people (lol)/things that have personally wronged me/family/friends. The Caribbean, if we don't go to a school there, will have done nothing to us. Not trying to argue, just sharing my point of view

I'm not trying to argue either lol, I'm just explaining my perspective. I have an irrational hatred for 2 things: Caribbean medical schools and the city of Trenton, NJ

I understand your sentiment, but is the contempt necessary? If anything I feel sorry for the recent ones who have 200K+ in debt with difficulty obtaining a residency, any residency.

I feel pity as well, tbh. The contempt mainly stems from the fact that in my community DO's face a social stigma that Caribbean grads don't.

The best surgeon I know is an American who went to med school in Italy. So you view him with less respect because of his school? Or does that just apply to the Carib? Because two of the best OBs I have worked with went to SGU. The "easy" way involved being away from family and friends for a couple years on a ****ty island and taking out ridiculous loans for a 50/50 shot at residency.

I'd view him with less respect initially, purely privately. I'd probably respect him more though as I got to know him.

I would avoid you altogether tbh. If I got to hypothetically pick a pre-med scribe I would prefer it to be not the kid asking me about which medical school I went to when medical school is about self accountability irregardless of outside circumstances e.g. school, personal problems, and other factors.

I've never asked any physician I've scribed with. It's just that other physicians volunteer that information. I've noticed that Carib grads don't.

 

[OchemOficionado]

The eight I was talking about were mostly surgeons with two OBs thrown in. Interestingly, only one of the surgeons was an IMG. The rest were FMGs. The other two Americans were the OBs. Bias definitely exists, but it seems to end once you finish residency.

OBs are surgeons too, right?

 

[gyngyn]

OBs are surgeons too, right?

Better believe it.

 

[gyngyn]

FMG = non-US internationals who received their medical education in a foreign country before coming to US for residency
IMG = US citizen who received their medical education outside of US before coming back to US for residency

I think internationals who receive their medical education in US and apply to US for residency are considered AMGs, but @gyngyn and @Med Ed can correct me on this.

US citizens who had to leave to go to medical school are US IMG's.
Although internationals who attend US medical school are technically AMG's, their match prospects are complicated by their visa status.

 

[squeagel]

your statement is excgarated

excuse me, *exgatoraded


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[libertyyne]

US citizens who had to leave to go to medical school are US IMG's.
Although internationals who attend US medical school are technically AMG's, their match prospects are complicated by their visa status.

Do PD's just not want to deal with the H1B visa application headache?

 

[gyngyn]

Do PD's just not want to deal with the H1B visa application headache?

Yes, it mostly has to do with the paperwork (sometimes with local laws or hospital policies).

 

[baratheonfire]

Yes, it mostly has to do with the paperwork (sometimes with local laws or hospital policies).

Why is this allowed?

 

[GinnyWeasley]

I see. Also I think you're correct on that.

I'm not trying to argue either lol, I'm just explaining my perspective. I have an irrational hatred for 2 things: Caribbean medical schools and the city of Trenton, NJ

I feel pity as well, tbh. The contempt mainly stems from the fact that in my community DO's face a social stigma that Caribbean grads don't.

I'd view him with less respect initially, purely privately. I'd probably respect him more though as I got to know him.

I've never asked any physician I've scribed with. It's just that other physicians volunteer that information. I've noticed that Carib grads don't.

Trenton? Lol why do you hate it?

 

[gyngyn]

Why is this allowed?

Can you be more specific?