Do Carribean doctors get less respect than US trained doctors?

[baratheonfire]

Trenton? Lol why do you hate it?

It's irrational lol
Ever since I saw this movie called "Rocket Science" I've developed this hatred for the city

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[baratheonfire]

Can you be more specific?

Used wrong multiquote in wrong thread lol, ignore that response

 

[libertyyne]

Why is this allowed?

Why would I do extra work that has a the risk of the seat being left unfilled if I can just get a qualified applicant that I wont have to deal with that headache. Bureaucracy/Human Nature 101.

 

[libertyyne]

It's irrational lol
Ever since I saw this movie called "Rocket Science" I've developed this hatred for the city

Did you ever do Policy Debate?

 

[baratheonfire]

Did you ever do Policy Debate?

Nah science olympiad was my thing dawg

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

OBs are surgeons too, right?

Depends on whom you ask. Most of the surgeons I worked with would say no. Personally, I feel like they do surgery so they are surgeons, but it is what it is.

 

[gyngyn]

Depends on whom you ask. Most of the surgeons I worked with would say no. Personally, I feel like they do surgery so they are surgeons, but it is what it is.

When we are operating on their wife (sister, daughter...), we are surgeons.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

When we are operating on their wife (sister, daughter...), we are surgeons.

I don't disagree. But you know how surgeons can be.

 

[OchemOficionado]

Depends on whom you ask. Most of the surgeons I worked with would say no. Personally, I feel like they do surgery so they are surgeons, but it is what it is.

Haha, didn't know it was a matter of opinion. I only ask because you differentiated them from surgeons in your post.

 

[lexswift]

OBs are surgeons too, right?

When we are operating on their wife (sister, daughter...), we are surgeons.

Obgyn is also the one specialty that allows a person to do both primary care and surgery! @gyngyn is that why you picked your specialty?

 

[libertyyne]

Obgyn is also the one specialty that allows a person to do both primary care and surgery! ][B]@gyngyn[/B] is that why your specialty?

[/B]
read the username three times and ask the question again.

 

[lexswift]

[/B]
read the username three times and ask the question again.

People pick things for different reasons...

 

[OchemOficionado]

Obgyn is also the one specialty that allows a person to do both primary care and surgery! @gyngyn is that why you picked your specialty?

Unique!

I wonder if UCR considers that speciality primary care, surgery or both as I know they give some sort of preferential admissions to students agreeing to primary care.

 

[OchemOficionado]

[/B]
read the username three times and ask the question again.

I did this, haha. Are you saying that gynecologists don't do surgery? I'm assuming they do hysterectomies and ovary stuff, I don't know.

 

[Sardinia]

@gyngyn Can't we also consider them astrologists? Lots of exploration regarding celestial bodies and black holes.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Haha, didn't know it was a matter of opinion. I only ask because you differentiated them from surgeons in your post.

Force of habit. Like I'd differentiate between ortho or nsg and surgery.

 

[gyngyn]

Unique!

I wonder if UCR considers that speciality primary care, surgery or both as I know they give some sort of preferential admissions to students agreeing to primary care.

The US govt. does consider ObG primary care. Strange , but true.

 

[Sardinia]

The US govt. does consider ObG primary care. Strange , but true.

What about urology?

 

[libertyyne]

The US govt. does consider ObG primary care. Strange , but true.

So that means it would qualify for loan forgiveness programs

 

[OchemOficionado]

Force of habit. Like I'd differentiate between ortho or nsg and surgery.

You'd say, "I've worked with 8 surgeons and 2 orthos?" I think I can see that.

NSG = Nurses? (Learn something new everyday. I'm going to look it up now!)

 

[gyngyn]

So that means it would qualify for loan forgiveness programs

It does.

 

[gyngyn]

What about urology?

Nope. Not for the NHSC.

 

[Mad Jack]

Most people don't give a **** after you finish residency. Occasionally it might come up, but I'd come across Caribbean trained doctors in the hospital, and thought of them the same as anyone else, as did most of the staff. This was at a major medical center, a big name place. Some of the academics might get snobby about it, but 99% of people didn't give two ****s.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You'd say, "I've worked with 8 surgoens and 2 orthos?" I think I can see that.

NSG = Nurses? (Learn something new everyday. I'm going to look it up now!)

Neurosurgery. I'd say I worked with 8 surgeons and 2 orthopods (real numbers are much different). Obviously they are all surgeons, I just use surgeon as shorthand for general surgeons.

ETA: this is just how we worded things at my institution. I was there for more than half a decade, so the terminology stuck.

 

[OchemOficionado]

Neurosurgery. I'd say I worked with 8 surgeons and 2 orthopods (real numbers are much different). Obviously they are all surgeons, I just use surgeon as shorthand for general surgeons.

Ahhh, got it.

 

[gyngyn]

Neurosurgery. I'd say I worked with 8 surgeons and 2 orthopods (real numbers are much different). Obviously they are all surgeons, I just use surgeon as shorthand for general surgeons.

ETA: this is just how we worded things at my institution. I was there for more than half a decade, so the terminology stuck.

Every MD license (in CA, at least) is a license as a "physician and surgeon."
Your use of the term is entirely acceptable, though. I use the descriptor "surgeon" to refer to GSurg too.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Every MD license (in CA, at least) is a license as a "physician and surgeon."
Your use of the term is entirely acceptable, though. I use the descriptor "surgeon" to refer to GSurg too.

Yep. I understand how it works. I was just clarifying why I differentiated. But, every time we got a gyn add-on, we never asked who the OB was. We always asked who the surgeon was. The ancillary staff never made any differentiation. It was the surgeons.

 

[OchemOficionado]

Every MD license (in CA, at least) is a license as a "physician and surgeon."
Your use of the term is entirely acceptable, though. I use the descriptor "surgeon" to refer to GSurg too.

That's interesting! I wonder why.

Yeah, I totally get "surgeon" for general surgeons. I just don't hear it separated when talking about other surgical specialities. It didn't cross my mind that he was only referring to general surgeons. Makes sense!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That's interesting! I wonder why.

Yeah, I totally get "surgeon" for general surgeons. I just don't hear it separated when talking about other surgical specialities. It didn't cross my mind that he was only referring to general surgeons. Makes sense!

A urologist is a surgeon, but I still call him a urologist. Vascular and thoracic are probably the only ones I lump in with surgery, since there aren't really good short names for them that I can think of. Orthopods, neuro, urologists, OBs, ENTs, etc all lend themselves to differentiation.

 

[akinetopsia]

I'd say plastics are surgeons too, considering they're usually the last resort that gets called on difficult cases, or at times or to fix other surgeons' mistakes.

 

[libertyyne]

I'd say plastics are surgeons too, considering they're usually the last resort that gets called on difficult cases, or at times or to fix other surgeons' mistakes.

I thought they only did cosmetic stuff compared to fixing a bungled aortic lac .

 

[armstrbp]

Personally, I think a doctor is a doctor. Some choosy programs might disagree, but I've worked with *excellent* Carribean doctors.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I'd say plastics are surgeons too, considering they're usually the last resort that gets called on difficult cases, or at times or to fix other surgeons' mistakes.

Yeah, but I just call them plastics.

I thought they only did cosmetic stuff compared to fixing a bungled aortic lac .

Definitely not. It's called plastic and reconstructive surgery for a reason. The guys and gals who do the reconstructive stuff do amazing things.

 

[doctor in da makin]

I too have anecdotes to provide of the predominately family practice residencies or lack of residencies carribean trained MD's have had. There is also context for a lot of this, people who graduated from the carribean 10 years ago had different residency prospects compared to today. Does it matter once you are a licensed professional? Not really. Have I met some conscientious MD's from the Caribbean, sure. Inherent and hidden biases exist all the time and in all actuality do extend to Caribbean MD's.

I hate to derail my own thread, but I always see people talk about how the carribean used to be a good option but isn't anymore.

Aren't the match rates almost exactly the same as in 2006?

 

[libertyyne]

I hate to derail my own thread, but I always see people talk about how the carribean used to be a good option but isn't anymore.

Aren't the match rates almost exactly the same as in 2006?

I think a good way to look at this problem would be to look at the number of acgme residency sites ,which have remained static, and look at the increase in the number of me /do graduates. Then ask yourself a question would I take a amg's or would I take an fmg for that seat. Googling the same question and looking for analysis performed by other folks in more articulate manner with actual numbers may be more helpful.

 

[username456789]

My state has recently introduced legislature that would require nurses to address FMG/IMG physicians as ""Doctor" _____" using appropriate air quotes with two fingers on each hand (must be performed at or above person's shoulder level). Time will tell whether this gets pushed through or not.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

I had worn my suit on a plane returning from an interview. 2 Physicians overheard me explain to someone why I had the suit on, and told me that if they had any questions, to just ask. So I did go back and ask them some Q's. When I asked one of the guys what school he went to, he got upset and said it doesn't matter what school you go to. Then he said he went to the Caribbean. He then proceeded to berate DO schools and DO's, saying they are trained differently and poorly

Someone is insecure lol


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[doctor in da makin]

My state has recently introduced legislature that would require nurses to address FMG/IMG physicians as ""Doctor" _____" using appropriate air quotes with two fingers on each hand (must be performed at or above person's shoulder level). Time will tell whether this gets pushed through or not.

 

[Gastrapathy]

When we are operating on their wife (sister, daughter...), we are surgeons.

2 operations...

 

[Avicenna]

my uncle is carribean trained and he's the ****ing man

side note: is it not childish that we censor cuss words?

 

[premed donna]

At the end of the day, does a doctor who graduated from say SGU or Ross get less respect from patients and other doctors than a doctor who went to school in the US?

Before everyone goes crazy, I already read alot about how SDN feels about the Caribbean. I know the odds are stacked against you if you go there.

However, I don't think anybody really discussed this topic before (forgive me if you already did).

Thoughts?

No. Once your trained, no one really cares where you went to school--a good doctor is a good doctor. Patients don't usually know (or care) where their doctor went to school. You may have a harder time getting matched to your residency of choice. That being said, I work in an academic center (thats fairly prestige) and one of my surgery residents (one of our best surgery residents) is a Caribbean grad--and she just interviewed for cardiothoracic. One of best surg residents and (who I would argue is) our best anesthesia resident are both DO trained. Some of our residents (both anes and surg) who graduated from top schools just aren't as impressive.

In the end, a good doctor is a good doctor.

 

[libertyyne]

No. Once your trained, no one really cares where you went to school--a good doctor is a good doctor. Patients don't usually know (or care) where their doctor went to school. You may have a harder time getting matched to your residency of choice. That being said, I work in an academic center (thats fairly prestige) and one of my surgery residents (one of our best surgery residents) is a Caribbean grad--and she just interviewed for cardiothoracic. One of best surg residents and (who I would argue is) our best anesthesia resident are both DO trained. Some of our residents (both anes and surg) who graduated from top schools just aren't as impressive.

In the end, a good doctor is a good doctor.

Do you mind telling me how you know what the internal ranking or performance of the residents looks like as a premed?

 

[premed donna]

Do you mind telling me how you know what the internal ranking or performance of the residents looks like as a premed?

I work with them.

 

[libertyyne]

I work with them.

and? I am still confused as how a pre-med would know what a resident's performance would look like.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

and? I am still confused as how a pre-med would know what a resident's performance would look like.

You might be surprised how much docs talk about other docs. As someone who works in an OR I can definitely say who is a good surgeon and who is not simply because of listening to the other doctors talk about them. You also start to see which guys have the same recurrent issues with their patients, like post-op infection or the anesthesiologist whose patients always take a year to wake up and need a chin lift for 20 minutes.

 

[TXMED_1695]

like post-op infection or the anesthesiologist whose patients always take a year to wake up and need a chin lift for 20 minutes.

 

[libertyyne]

You might be surprised how much docs talk about other docs. As someone who works in an OR I can definitely say who is a good surgeon and who is not simply because of listening to the other doctors talk about them. You also start to see which guys have the same recurrent issues with their patients, like post-op infection or the anesthesiologist whose patients always take a year to wake up and need a chin lift for 20 minutes.

Yeah I would be cautious in listening to gossip to evaluate quality of a physician/residents. Was Consumer reports down?
But in all honestly, Do you know if the physican takes more complex patients that leads to higher complications? Do you know what their raw rate or complications is versus acuity adjusted rates of complications? What about infections? Are they more prolific compared to their peers resulting in you seeing more infections. Do you know what the peer review deliberations were?

I know the physicians I want to cut me open, not because I know these internal rates , rather I would want him to cut me open because I trust him to do the right thing.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Do you know if the physican takes more complex patients that leads to higher complications?

Yes I do, and with the way their practice is set up this isn't an issue. If you work somewhere long enough you do get to know who is actually good and who is not. It's not just nursing gossip, when you go to the head anesthesiologist and ask, "who would you want to operate on your wife?" and they give you a straight answer and say x,y, or z but never A or B, I tend to believe them. When you over hear them talking about how Dr. so and so has a tremor and it's affecting his outcomes, then you better believe I would never let them cut me open. You can learn a lot by simply being a fly on the wall.

 

[sullen-burger]

I know the physicians I want to cut me open, not because I know these internal rates , rather I would want him or her to cut me open because I trust him or her to do the right thing.

Fixed that for you.

 

[premed donna]

and? I am still confused as how a pre-med would know what a resident's performance would look like.

Forgot the premed status--I've been staff in the OR for a few years; I see them doctor and I work alongside them. I don't need to be a physician to distinguish who has good surgical skill, control of vitals/hemodynamics, decision making, diagnostic and appraisal skills--who "doctors" well.

What are you trying to accomplish with your challenges? Perhaps I can better answer your questions if I understand your goal.