Do Clerkship grades really matter to match into a university radiology residency

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dh12

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Hey guys got a quick question: i've been hearing that clerkship grades dont hold as much weight as your step 1 score (which mine was barely a 99) when applying to radiology. is this true in the recent matches? i just got a pass in surgery and will prob pass peds. i wouldnt mind going to a middle of the road university program on the east coast somewhere. thanks for the help!
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um who do think radiologist talk to all day? clinicians...not to mention radiologists diagnose diseases which is a large part of your clerkship grade when you really think about it.
 
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dh12 said:
Hey guys got a quick question: i've been hearing that clerkship grades dont hold as much weight as your step 1 score (which mine was barely a 99) when applying to radiology. is this true in the recent matches? i just got a pass in surgery and will prob pass peds. i wouldnt mind going to a middle of the road university program on the east coast somewhere. thanks for the help!
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Try to get a couple high passes at least. Clerkship grades aren't as important as Step 1 it seems but they are important. Getting straight passes while having a ~230 Step 1 could make it difficult to match a east coast university program (east coast is 2nd most competitive region after the west)
 
dh12 said:
Hey guys got a quick question: i've been hearing that clerkship grades dont hold as much weight as your step 1 score (which mine was barely a 99) when applying to radiology. is this true in the recent matches? i just got a pass in surgery and will prob pass peds. i wouldnt mind going to a middle of the road university program on the east coast somewhere. thanks for the help!
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I would apply really broadly, ~50-70 programs with a good mix of university and community programs but I think you'd probably be ok. What tier of school do you go to?
 
thanks for the replies...i have a 239 step 1, missed getting a HP by 1 point on my shelf, but cant do anything about that now...middle of the road program on the east coast. just wondering if i could match at a middle of the road east coast university program haha, im not looking for a super competitive one bc i know im not competitive enough for them
 
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I never understood the point of these threads. If people were to tell you they don't matter, would you somehow figure out how to just barely pass and do that? Anyway, of course they matter, grades and then a good class rank will help you match in any specialty. Of course step 1 is important, but everyone applying has a good step 1 score. The guy with a good step 1 score AND good grades is going to match better
 
dh12 said:
thanks for the replies...i have a 239 step 1, missed getting a HP by 1 point on my shelf, but cant do anything about that now...middle of the road program on the east coast. just wondering if i could match at a middle of the road east coast university program haha, im not looking for a super competitive one bc i know im not competitive enough for them
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What do you mean by east coast? Northeast specifically or extending below the Mason Dixon? Boston/NYC specifically or anywhere from Maine to DC?

You have any east coast ties?
 
I think you will be hard pressed to find someone that says grades don't matter, regardless of specialty. You will still interact with patients and clinicians...even in radiology. A large part of 3rd year grades is attributed to your abilities to perform an exam, organize information, create a reasonable differential, form a plan, etc. All of those skills have some amount of carry over in radiology. Obviously the organizing information and differential part is the biggest component. You can't exactly mail it in because you want to do radiology. It isn't the kiss of death, but it is good to get a couple of high passes or honors depending on how your school grades. (Mine only has H/P/F)
 
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thanks for the replies again, i appreciate it...by east coast i mean everything from mass to north carolina and as far west as chicago haha...i was just wondering in peoples past experience with a couple passes and an average rads step score if matching at a decent univ. program was doable, i know the guy with better grades is gonna do better but i was asking about having a successful match at a mid-tier program with average stats...but i guess i just gotta apply everywhere anyway so i guess it doesnt matter now...thanks
 
I think you should apply broadly regardless. If you were applying from HMS
S or w/e it'd be diff.
 
I'm confused... With a ~260/99 ~3.9 I'm not competitive for radiology? I've only made A's in Medicine, Surgery, etc so far.. What else do I need to do?
 
fahimaz7 said:
I'm confused... With a ~260/99 ~3.9 I'm not competitive for radiology? I've only made A's in Medicine, Surgery, etc so far.. What else do I need to do?
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lmao. You're being sarcastic right? Is this just another opportunity to post your stats cuz you sound competitive anywhere save maybe top 1 or 2 depending on your school.
 
Grades are important, which sucks because some students are at a real disadvantage when it comes to specific grading systems. For schools that have F, P, and Honors, there is a whole group of students just below getting honors that get the shaft.
 
dh12 said:
thanks for the replies again, i appreciate it...by east coast i mean everything from mass to north carolina and as far west as chicago haha...i was just wondering in peoples past experience with a couple passes and an average rads step score if matching at a decent univ. program was doable, i know the guy with better grades is gonna do better but i was asking about having a successful match at a mid-tier program with average stats...but i guess i just gotta apply everywhere anyway so i guess it doesnt matter now...thanks
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Yeah you'll be fine. There's a huge number of programs in the area that you described, just apply broadly and you'll be fine.

Radiology isn't competitive to match somewhere but the competition at the top programs is very fierce.


fahimaz7 said:
I'm confused... With a ~260/99 ~3.9 I'm not competitive for radiology? I've only made A's in Medicine, Surgery, etc so far.. What else do I need to do?
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I know you weren't being serious but I'll still address this.

Obviously a 260/3.9 is very competitive for radiology but at the very top programs that is run of the mill and you need other things to round out your app (solid research, strong performance on aways, good letters, big name school etc) to get a lot of love from the big names vs a smattering of invites.
 
2012mdc said:
Yeah you'll be fine. There's a huge number of programs in the area that you described, just apply broadly and you'll be fine.

Radiology isn't competitive to match somewhere but the competition at the top programs is very fierce.




I know you weren't being serious but I'll still address this.

Obviously a 260/3.9 is very competitive for radiology but at the very top programs that is run of the mill and you need other things to round out your app (solid research, strong performance on aways, good letters, big name school etc) to get a lot of love from the big names vs a smattering of invites.
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I think this cycle has been instructive, the thing I've seen is that

1) there's a lot of really strong applicants in rads as well as other top specialties, although rads appears to select for board scores, research, and not necessarily the most well-rounded applicants, although I have met some pretty awesome people on the trail.

2) 2012mdc, I don't know if you've seen this too, but at the top programs, almost all of the applicants are from name schools. In Seattle this last weekend every single applicant was from a top 25 rads program and the majority were from Washington, ucsf, Stanford, or Hopkins. This was true at most of the top "national" programs, but more regional powerhouses had more of a regional feel of the applicants/residents.

3) you see a lot of the same people on the trail, it's sort of fun, I've seen the same guy at three different programs in diff regions of the country.

4) at least in rads, interviews are super chill and more to screen out weirdos and gauge interest. That being said, I've heard from some people that if you have deficiencies in your app, some PDs ask about them, I haven't seen that though so maybe they screen for their "red flags" prior to the interview. In any case, it's sort of a humbling process; I have interviews from about half the programs I applied to, which I guess is considered successful. There def are some "wtf" moments though.
 
Oh btw I guess the other thing is that if you have good grades/board scores, you'll probably get some interviews, but figuring out which schools they'll be from is pretty futile. Even if you have a prototypically solid app, you'll get rejections, sometimes due to regional ties, and some that are just arbitrary, idiopathic if you will.

Therefore, targeting what schools to apply to and applying somewhat broadly is impt. 2012mdc and I have similar numbers but drastically different (but good) interview lists.
 
drizzt3117 said:
I think this cycle has been instructive, the thing I've seen is that

1) there's a lot of really strong applicants in rads as well as other top specialties, although rads appears to select for board scores, research, and not necessarily the most well-rounded applicants, although I have met some pretty awesome people on the trail.

2) 2012mdc, I don't know if you've seen this too, but at the top programs, almost all of the applicants are from name schools. In Seattle this last weekend every single applicant was from a top 25 rads program and the majority were from Washington, ucsf, Stanford, or Hopkins. This was true at most of the top "national" programs, but more regional powerhouses had more of a regional feel of the applicants/residents.

3) you see a lot of the same people on the trail, it's sort of fun, I've seen the same guy at three different programs in diff regions of the country.

4) at least in rads, interviews are super chill and more to screen out weirdos and gauge interest. That being said, I've heard from some people that if you have deficiencies in your app, some PDs ask about them, I haven't seen that though so maybe they screen for their "red flags" prior to the interview. In any case, it's sort of a humbling process; I have interviews from about half the programs I applied to, which I guess is considered successful. There def are some "wtf" moments though.
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With regards to #2 I haven't interviewed yet at a top program in a highly desirable location yet. N=1 but at Hopkins there were interviewees from lesser known places like MCG, Tulane, and South Alabama.

With regards to #3 there's another applicant that I had my 1st two interviews with and we have another one together in January.

When talking to the other applicants at Hopkins it seemed like a lot of us were interviewing at places of similar quality with some overlap based on regional preferences. It sounds like the top programs are interviewing essentially the same pool of applicants except for maybe the hypercompetitive regions (west coast, nyc) where it becomes more of a crapshoot and/or when regional bias comes into play.

With regards to #4 my interviews have been the same way and have heard similar things from my classmates. Deficiencies have been brought up sometimes but not in a grilling way.

The most humbling thing about the process is that you feel relatively helpless while waiting for an interview invite. If you become too fixated on a few particular programs it can be quite the jolt when you don't get that specific invite and it feels like all your hard work was for naught. I've had my share of disappointment but I've gotten some great programs and I'm thankful for that in this crazy process.
 
drizzt3117 said:
Oh btw I guess the other thing is that if you have good grades/board scores, you'll probably get some interviews, but figuring out which schools they'll be from is pretty futile. Even if you have a prototypically solid app, you'll get rejections, sometimes due to regional ties, and some that are just arbitrary, idiopathic if you will.

Therefore, targeting what schools to apply to and applying somewhat broadly is impt. 2012mdc and I have similar numbers but drastically different (but good) interview lists.
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I couldn't emphasize this more. I have ties to Cali and the South. Rejected/silence from top Southern programs like Duke, Wake Forest, and UVA but I got a NYU invite with absolutely no east coast ties. I've gotten so little love in the South that if I didn't apply out of the region I would have had a chance of going unmatched.

I've gotten competitive programs in Cali like USC and UC Davis but rejected from places like UAB, Vandy, and UF.

Unless you are dead set on one region because of strong family reasons you should apply broadly. And if you are dead set on a region make that known to programs because many non-top tier programs are rejecting people that they assume won't rank them highly.
 
The one thing I underestimated is how emotionally/physically draining the whole process is. Between lots of travel, jet lag, and being "on" all the time, it just gets exhausting, especially if you're on a rotation. I'm looking fwd to a week off after Tuesday till after RSNA :)

2012mdc said:
With regards to #2 I haven't interviewed yet at a top program in a highly desirable location yet. N=1 but at Hopkins there were interviewees from lesser known places like MCG, Tulane, and South Alabama.

With regards to #3 there's another applicant that I had my 1st two interviews with and we have another one together in January.

When talking to the other applicants at Hopkins it seemed like a lot of us were interviewing at places of similar quality with some overlap based on regional preferences. It sounds like the top programs are interviewing essentially the same pool of applicants except for maybe the hypercompetitive regions (west coast, nyc) where it becomes more of a crapshoot and/or when regional bias comes into play.

With regards to #4 my interviews have been the same way and have heard similar things from my classmates. Deficiencies have been brought up sometimes but not in a grilling way.

The most humbling thing about the process is that you feel relatively helpless while waiting for an interview invite. If you become too fixated on a few particular programs it can be quite the jolt when you don't get that specific invite and it feels like all your hard work was for naught. I've had my share of disappointment but I've gotten some great programs and I'm thankful for that in this crazy process.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, I'm still jealous of that nyu invite :) I can't really point to a regional pattern to my list as it's just sort of random. I've gotten my share of rejections from every region, even from one of my state schools!

2012mdc said:
I couldn't emphasize this more. I have ties to Cali and the South. Rejected/silence from top Southern programs like Duke, Wake Forest, and UVA but I got a NYU invite with absolutely no east coast ties. I've gotten so little love in the South that if I didn't apply out of the region I would have had a chance of going unmatched.

I've gotten competitive programs in Cali like USC and UC Davis but rejected from places like UAB, Vandy, and UF.

Unless you are dead set on one region because of strong family reasons you should apply broadly. And if you are dead set on a region make that known to programs because many non-top tier programs are rejecting people that they assume won't rank them highly.
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DrBowtie said:
I'm curious where they really come into play. Certainly haven't heard about grades during any of my interviews.
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They come into play for interview invites. It is truly a whole package. My PD said Step 1 and third year grades (esp the core hardcore clinical rotations of surgery and IM) are most important to select interviews, then the interview is huge because radiology attendings work with residents very closely day in day out. Everything else is secondary. I'm sure regional ties plays a big role though too.

I have had a few interviewers say I am a "strong applicant" based on my "good scores/good grades".

Clinical grades are essential because they determine AOA status as well. All honors third year can make up for a subpar boards performance. A stellar boards score but no clinical honors will make it tough to get interview invites at most academic programs from what I understand (obviously based off of word on the street).
 
DrBowtie said:
I'm curious where they really come into play. Certainly haven't heard about grades during any of my interviews.
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I've had multiple interviewers mention mine either directly ("you performed well 3rd year") or indirectly (mentioning AOA)
 
i ended up getting a HP in peds and ob...now hope i can get H in IM
 
I'd probably do a little research, if you can get a case report or two, that'd help.
 
2012mdc said:
I've had multiple interviewers mention mine either directly ("you performed well 3rd year") or indirectly (mentioning AOA)
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This was my experience in anesthesia as well. The bottom line is that, despite what many many people tell you before you go to medical school, grades really do matter no matter what specialty you decide to go into. Do your best. Really.
 
thanks for the replies...now im wondering about away rotations, so hope you guys can give me some advice. I am thinking about doing an away at a reach program near home and was wondering when i should schedule it, and when i should take step 2 ck. my step 1 is a 239 if that helps. also, if i do the away in august, would other schools see it on my transcript and be like, "he is not interested in our program bc he did an away somewhere else"? thank you very much!
 
There are always programs out there that interview or take rotators, but the majority of people match at a program they didn't rotate at. I've always been told to view externships as an opportunity to explore and learn about a different system and how things are done elsewhere first and then it is an added bonus if you like the program and impress some people.
 
dh12 said:
thanks for the replies...now im wondering about away rotations, so hope you guys can give me some advice. I am thinking about doing an away at a reach program near home and was wondering when i should schedule it, and when i should take step 2 ck. my step 1 is a 239 if that helps. also, if i do the away in august, would other schools see it on my transcript and be like, "he is not interested in our program bc he did an away somewhere else"? thank you very much!
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I don't think doing an away near your home program has any value. You should take step 1 early IMO, before mid august so it's on your eras.
 
i signed up for step 2ck in mid-october...do you guys think this it too late? also, if i take it at end of august, i will prob get my score report in mid-september. does this mean that i can choose whether to release my score or not? or does it matter when i take the test and not when the score report comes out? thank you!
 
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