Do family practice DOs and MDs make the same annual income?

[Ypo.]

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Just wondering because average indebtedness is the same- but do family practice DOs and FP MDs have the same expected incomes? I know average income for class 200-2002 for FP DOs is $98,300.

I'm looking for verified data here.

 

[Sense]

As far as I know they do. My family physician who is a DO makes the same as MDs who are family physicians. I wouldn't be a DO if I knew they made less than MDs in the same specialty relatively speaking. If that was the case, I probably would have gone to an MD school since I was accepted to one. 🙂

 

[stoic]

DO's and MD's use the same billing codes, so I'd assume that they make the same money.

 

[DrMom]

DO's and MD's use the same billing codes, so I'd assume that they make the same money.

exactly.

how much a FM doc makes depends on how many patients they see, how many procedures they do, and how good their billing person is at coding. The MD vs DO does not come into play at all.

the only exception I'd note is that some DO FP docs do a lot of OMM and can make more that way.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

the only exception I'd note is that some DO FP docs do a lot of OMM and can make more that way.

Or less because that s**t takes a long time and the insurance pay is really low on OMM from what I saw where I shadowed. But nevertheless, it works and it brings in more referrals.

 

[DrMom]

The OMM-only practice docs I know take cash only. They do very well for themselves.

The FM docs that incorporate OMM into their practice are the ones that bill ins. They tell me that they, too, can do well as long as they are still time-efficient in their practice.

 

[dr_almondjoy_do]

The OMM-only practice docs I know take cash only. They do very well for themselves.

The FM docs that incorporate OMM into their practice are the ones that bill ins. They tell me that they, too, can do well as long as they are still time-efficient in their practice.

Can an FP bill for medical procedures and do OMM cash only in the same practice? Just wondering if the combo is allowed.

 

[Fermata]

The OMM-only practice docs I know take cash only. They do very well for themselves.

I've heard such reports about the "OMM jedis".

Exactly how well do they do?

 

[DrMom]

Can an FP bill for medical procedures and do OMM cash only in the same practice? Just wondering if the combo is allowed.

I'm not sure about that.



fermata: the docs I know work part-time & travel a lot. They aren't suffering at all, but I've not asked what they pull in.

 

[Fermata]

I'm not sure about that.



fermata: the docs I know work part-time & travel a lot. They aren't suffering at all, but I've not asked what they pull in.

I've heard speculation that some can even rake it in near the 7 figures mark. That is what I'm curious about....how accurate that statement is.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

I've heard speculation that some can even rake it in near the 7 figures mark. That is what I'm curious about....how accurate that statement is.

I vote: False

Family practioner making 7 figures seems kinda fraudulent to me... unless of course the doc owns 10 clinics and the business aspect of the profession is stellar, I guess it's possible.

 

[Chronotropic]

If it's cash only then they could set their prices. So I guess it's not out of the question for some Beverly Hills DO to be raking in insane amounts of money.

 

[Fermata]

I vote: False

Family practioner making 7 figures seems kinda fraudulent to me... unless of course the doc owns 10 clinics and the business aspect of the profession is stellar, I guess it's possible.

Not FP'ers......the guys who do only OMM for cash.

 

[Chronotropic]

Not FP'ers......the guys who do only OMM for cash.

How common are these setups? I would imagine it would take quite a while to establish a patient base.

 

[Fermata]

How common are these setups? I would imagine it would take quite a while to establish a patient base.

Supposedly the guys who set these things up are the OMM gurus. From what I hear people will travel all over the state to be seen by them.

Think about it: more money is spent on "alternative" healthcare than the traditional type nowadays.

 

[DrMom]

You've got to be quite good to make that kind of money, but there are some really good OMM docs out there. I've had a couple of people from other parts of the country ask me about OMM docs in Tulsa by name.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

Not FP'ers......the guys who do only OMM for cash.

I would say an average OMM session with a quick DO is 15 minutes (it's not like rub someone quick and tell them to get the heck out). That... 32 patients a day for an 8 hour working day, working 6 days a week = around 10,000 visits a year. This doc would have to be charging $100 per 15 minute session to break 1 million. I still vote False.

 

[DrMom]

The point is that they can do very well. As I said, I've never asked how much, but it's clear that some of them are making significantly more than the average FM doc.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

The point is that they can do very well. As I said, I've never asked how much, but it's clear that some of them are making significantly more than the average FM doc.

They can do very well indeed, however the 7 figure income Fermata stated is outrageous with this type of practice...

 

[DrMom]

They can do very well indeed, however the 7 figure income Fermata stated is outrageous with this type of practice...

It would definitely be an exception...but there's probably one out there somewhere.

 

[Fermata]

They can do very well indeed, however the 7 figure income Fermata stated is outrageous with this type of practice...

I said getting close to it.

I can't find the source...but some DO who took a year off for an OMM fellowship said that one of his mentors was making around $700k/year doing only OMM.

That is why I asked. To see if it had any creedence.

 

[Ypo.]

Hi Sense, thanks for the reply- it makes "sense"

So, since you are in DO school- I wonder what your opinion is on all these DO vs MD threads? It seems to me that the reason so many cutthroat pre MDs are against DO schools is that you have a harder time getting a job or residency spot with DO. All I want to be is a family practice doctor ( I think)- I'm convinced the education is fine at DO schools. Despite what so many arrogant pre-meds think- you don't have to be a genius to master medical school concepts- and I'm sure MCAT scores of 8s are adequate. What do you think?

 

[Sense]

Hi Sense, thanks for the reply- it makes "sense"

So, since you are in DO school- I wonder what your opinion is on all these DO vs MD threads? It seems to me that the reason so many cutthroat pre MDs are against DO schools is that you have a harder time getting a job or residency spot with DO. All I want to be is a family practice doctor ( I think)- I'm convinced the education is fine at DO schools. Despite what so many arrogant pre-meds think- you don't have to be a genius to master medical school concepts- and I'm sure MCAT scores of 8s are adequate. What do you think?

Well I am pretty sure that as a family physician, you won't have a tough time getting a job or a residency spot as a DO. This is basically because MDs and DOs are on level ground when it comes to primary care, or at least that is what many people have told me including MDs.

I myself want to be a family doctor so I really don't think it made that much difference to choose DO over MD. All I can say is that premeds will always have their opinions and you can't really do much about that. I am sure that once you graduate from medical school, people won't really care what letters come after your name, but they'll care about how good of a doctor you are.

 

[raptor5]

I would say if you have any questions about how much an OMM specialist can earn ask your perspective OMM professor, if it applies. I have heard from OMM professors at PCOM that you can clear 300K (i.e. net) with no problem, assuming you can run a decent business, keep overhead low, and of course are good at it. There are probably numerous OMM specialists that have a 1 year or longer waiting lists (I know of two).

 

[Geronimo]

the insurance pay is really low on OMM from what I saw where I shadowed.

I'm not sure where you shadowed but most insurance companies will not pay anything over an office visit for OMM. You get nothing extra and thus, many D.O.s rarely, if ever, use it.

 

[DrMom]

From what I've been told, that isn't true. There are ICD codes for OMM and insurance companies recognize them. It probably is true, though, that reimbursement under HMOs is poor (just like it is for many other medical tx).

 

[Fermata]

From what I've been told, that isn't true. There are ICD codes for OMM and insurance companies recognize them. It probably is true, though, that reimbursement under HMOs is poor (just like it is for many other medical tx).

Derm is starting to look pretty good, eh? 😀

 

[DrMom]

Hey, I'm all about emergency med, myself 😀

 

[Fermata]

Hey, I'm all about emergency med, myself 😀

You must be lazy. 😀

 

[DrMom]

You must be lazy. 😀

Of course. All EMed docs are. 😉

 

[Fermata]

Of course. All EMed docs are. 😉

Future EM doc in the making right here, folks. 😀

 

[Fermata]

Out of curiousity...do you know your rotation schedule yet?

 

[DrMom]

Out of curiousity...do you know your rotation schedule yet?

I've had my schedule since last December. I have 3rd year completely booked up (start with psych on Aug 1), but have a number of open electives in 4th year. 🙂 My school makes us do half of our electives in primary care, but they include EM. 😀


*edit: if you want more info you're welcome to PM me*

 

[Amy B]

I would say an average OMM session with a quick DO is 15 minutes (it's not like rub someone quick and tell them to get the heck out). That... 32 patients a day for an 8 hour working day, working 6 days a week = around 10,000 visits a year. This doc would have to be charging $100 per 15 minute session to break 1 million. I still vote False.

The doctor that wrote my LOR does only OMM now. He charges $130 per visit. While I was there he saw 4 patients in one hour.

 

[(nicedream)]

The doctor that wrote my LOR does only OMM now. He charges $130 per visit. While I was there he saw 4 patients in one hour.

What payment types does he accept?

 

[(nicedream)]

How do you specialize in OMM? Are there residencies?

 

[Amy B]

I am not sure about payment types. I saw someone write a check, and 2 more just left after their treatments and didn't stop to pay. Maybe they paid before the visit, I don't know though.

He used to be a primary care doc but said that he was only doing OMM and that kept him busy.

If I remember, I have seen something about a program, a sort of post-grad program that deals with only OMM, but I can't remember where I read it.

 

[DrMom]

How do you specialize in OMM? Are there residencies?

Yes, but the ones I've seen are all OMM/Family Med combined programs.

 

[ScottDoc]

I'm not sure where you shadowed but most insurance companies will not pay anything over an office visit for OMM. You get nothing extra and thus, many D.O.s rarely, if ever, use it.

You will get paid for everything you do in the office including OMM. There are specific CPT codes. In fact, it is common for a DO doing OMM will get paid MORE than a DC doing almost the same procedure (or the DO will have an easier time getting a reimburement). There may be cases when you can't get paid, but that is determined by the insurance company.

In my opinion, if you are a DO and do NOT do OMM you are making about half in income of what you could if you incorporated OMM into your practice. I know from experience.

 

[medic170]

Just wondering because average indebtedness is the same- but do family practice DOs and FP MDs have the same expected incomes? I know average income for class 200-2002 for FP DOs is $98,300.

I'm looking for verified data here.

Yes, they do. There is NO difference whatsoever between what MD's and DO's make in any specialty.