DO for Canadians: 2011-2012

[Kliffmeister]

It's just a personal preference of mine that I would choose MSU over Nova. I grew up in Calgary. I don't mind the cold, but I hate the humidity. From what I hear, Nova is sunny but humid. I don't mind dry heat, but wet heat I hate.
Dry Cool> dry heat>Wet cold>wet heat
That's how I rank them

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[newno55]

It's just a personal preference of mine that I would choose MSU over Nova. I grew up in Calgary. I don't mind the cold, but I hate the humidity. From what I hear, Nova is sunny but humid. I don't mind dry heat, but wet heat I hate.
Dry Cool> dry heat>Wet cold>wet heat
That's how I rank them

Like we'll be outdoors a lot anyways right... haha

 

[docnotsopc]

Like we'll be outdoors a lot anyways right... haha

haha in all honesty you will be locked inside the library or your home or coffee shop studying 3-5 hours a day (for most week days), and usually all day on weekends. Unless of course you are the Canadian superman (crosby?), or your schools curriculum is easy (which i doubt with MSU)

Where it will make a difference is getting up to go to school each morning. Depends how motivated you are MSU is worth it with the hospital and its reputation.

Edit: just for fun i will give my life as an example haha. In the 6 months I Have been in med school (not including xmas break), I have seen 3 movies, gone out for dinner (into the city) twice, gym a decent amount (most i get out), and one weekend I explored a winery. With that being said, I am going really well in my class. Im leaning towards more social life and letting my grades slip as its the USMLE that is the most important. Just food for thought Also im not the most intelligent person, so im sure there are people who will learn the material at twice the rate i do

 

[AP gooner]

"Plan" is probably too strong of a word to use, but I think there is a definite benefit to go to MSU over NSU. You will get excellent insight into res matching from the class of 2015 (which has a number of Canadians) as well as a great insight into the hardships of it all. Most other schools have 2 or 3 Canadians per class but with n=15 to 25, you will get to hear a wide variety of stories about success, failure and overall experience of this class. MSU is also consistently ranked as one of the best DO schools.

On another note, you get to experience good Spartan teams play in various Division 1 sports... doesn't get much better than that, haha.

I completely agree with Mash though, in the end it comes down to you, your study habits, exam scores, your ability to connect with others in rotations etc etc and not the school. There will be no saving grace for anyone if they don't put in the work to succeed, no matter if you go to X or Y school.

Again, good luck with the decision.

 

[SkyRider]

"plan" is probably too strong of a word to use, but i think there is a definite benefit to go to msu over nsu. You will get excellent insight into res matching from the class of 2015 (which has a number of canadians) as well as a great insight into the hardships of it all. Most other schools have 2 or 3 canadians per class but with n=15 to 25, you will get to hear a wide variety of stories about success, failure and overall experience of this class. Msu is also consistently ranked as one of the best do schools.

On another note, you get to experience good spartan teams play in various division 1 sports... Doesn't get much better than that, haha.

I completely agree with mash though, in the end it comes down to you, your study habits, exam scores, your ability to connect with others in rotations etc etc and not the school. There will be no saving grace for anyone if they don't put in the work to succeed, no matter if you go to x or y school.

Again, good luck with the decision.

totally agree !!

 

[mashmetoo]

Hello there,

Sorry in advance for the long post.
I've been accepted to MSUCOM (DO) as a Canadian. However, I recently discovered another option: RFUMS SMP which apparently takes a large number of its masters students into its medical school.

Now, here are my stats:

3.09 c/s GPA (3.8 in my last year so far)
32 MCAT (balanced)

I realise that there are no guarantees with RFUMS, and that it might be a year lost. I am confident in my ability to do well in the med school classes, however the chance of failure (waste of a year + $50k) must be acknowledged. Because of my stats and citizenship, I would not be competetive at any other US MD school besides CMS.

If I am successful, the difference in tuition between CMS and MSUCOM should make up for the masters, making both options cost the same.

I would prefer a MD school as opposed to a DO, just because of the greater freedom when it comes to choosing a speciality as well as coming back into Canada. This is not a MD vs DO thread.

What are your opinions on what I should do?
Should I apply to RFUMS and defer the MSUCOM acceptance? Or just go DO?

on premed101... lol... people like this...
I told him to go for RFUMS, and let a Canadian on the MSU waitlist take the spot.

 

[drgioiadds]

Wow so many acronyms--I only know what MSU stands for.

 

[Kliffmeister]

Hey fellow Canadians, I'm in a bit of trouble right now and dunno what to do.
After considering the ridiculous amount I need to show upfront for AZCOM, I decided to attend TouroCOM instead.
Then I've gotten into another problem. Due to family problem and personal reasons I do not wish to disclose, I will not be able to have my parents to cosign my loan. I do not have a spouse nor have any investment nor another cosigner. I only started my full-time job few months ago and there's no way I can save up enough money to even cover 1st yr of med school.
I was hoping to get LOC from BMO (200K) and apply for OSAP. Now I highly doubt BMO will even loan me any money since I don't have a cosigner.
Any opinions? Should I just give up and hopefully one day I can get into CDN school? Or just give up on med school altogether and just go to grad school?
I wish I could win the lottery right now.....

 

[drgioiadds]

Can you defer your acceptance at Touro or at AZCOM? Do you have any older siblings/relatives that could cosign? Do you have any RSP's?? You can use your RSPs with no penalty under the life long learning program. Its similar to the first time home buyer program.

 

[se20001984]

if you think azcom was $$ so you went to touro?...

touro- ny is $$$ (have you seen the cost of living in nyc?!)

lmu is the cheapest school out there for canadians

with tuition and living expenses...its crazy cheap...

 

[jrich08]

Hello,
I am Canadian interested in the DO programs offered in the US.
I have a few question though..
First, how hard is it to obtain a Canadian residence position after you complete your DO?
Second, if I complete a residence position in the US, how difficult is it to practice medicine on return to Canada?
Thanks!

 

[Kliffmeister]

Can you defer your acceptance at Touro or at AZCOM? Do you have any older siblings/relatives that could cosign? Do you have any RSP's?? You can use your RSPs with no penalty under the life long learning program. Its similar to the first time home buyer program.

No RSP no other cosigner. At this point if I delay med school then I will only try to get into CDN med schools after doing masters.

if you think azcom was $$ so you went to touro?...

touro- ny is $$$ (have you seen the cost of living in nyc?!)

lmu is the cheapest school out there for canadians

with tuition and living expenses...its crazy cheap...

I understand NYC is expensive place to live. What I was referring to was I-20 requirement for AZCOM. No bank I spoke with will give all 352K US at once unless I do collateral, but even that isn't guaranteed. At least with Touro I can get student LOC and work part time in school and also get OSAP. Now I need to find a bank that will grant me 200k without cosigner. I'll hafta beg n beg lol

 

[Muffles]

"At least with Touro I can get student LOC and work part time in school and also get OSAP. Now I need to find a bank that will grant me 200k without cosigner."

Kliffmeister - I think you will be hard pressed to find the time / energy to work part time while in med school. You might be able to pick up a tutoring gig in 2nd year for the 1st year students if your school runs a program like that, but other than that, I don't think it is doable.

 

[mashmetoo]

No RSP no other cosigner. At this point if I delay med school then I will only try to get into CDN med schools after doing masters.




I understand NYC is expensive place to live. What I was referring to was I-20 requirement for AZCOM. No bank I spoke with will give all 352K US at once unless I do collateral, but even that isn't guaranteed. At least with Touro I can get student LOC and work part time in school and also get OSAP. Now I need to find a bank that will grant me 200k without cosigner. I'll hafta beg n beg lol

OR, fix whatever beef you have with the parents, beg, gravel, and get them to cosign.

 

[drgioiadds]

Hello,
I am Canadian interested in the DO programs offered in the US.
I have a few question though..
First, how hard is it to obtain a Canadian residence position after you complete your DO?
Second, if I complete a residence position in the US, how difficult is it to practice medicine on return to Canada?
Thanks!

You really need to search this forum. These topics have been discussed many times.

 

[GTP]

Hi everyone,

Currently in first year at a D.O school, and I'm interested in surgery. Are there any other Canadians (without greencards and interested in a somewhat competitive specialty) who are in the same situation? I'd really like to talk to somebody (here or pm) about what their plan of action is. As much as D.Os can match back in Canada, I doubt I'll be lucky enough to complete a surgical residency in canada. I have friends from Canadian med schools who were top performers at schools like U of T med school but still had to move to Saskatchewan for emergency medicine residencies (no offense to sask). thanks!!

 

[docnotsopc]

Hi everyone,

Currently in first year at a D.O school, and I'm interested in surgery. Are there any other Canadians (without greencards and interested in a somewhat competitive specialty) who are in the same situation? I'd really like to talk to somebody (here or pm) about what their plan of action is. As much as D.Os can match back in Canada, I doubt I'll be lucky enough to complete a surgical residency in canada. I have friends from Canadian med schools who were top performers at schools like U of T med school but still had to move to Saskatchewan for emergency medicine residencies (no offense to sask). thanks!!

Im in the same kind of boat (first year Canadian DO student). I want to do EM, but also am looking into Anesthesiology and Radiology (which are fairly competitive)

I hope that I could do any of these residencies in Canada by the time we graduate, but as of right now my hopes aren't high. I suspect for students trying to get FM or IM, it will be much easier.

But who knows what will change in the next 3.5 years, it can only get better right? Thats what i tell myself at least

 

[GTP]

Im in the same kind of boat (first year Canadian DO student). I want to do EM, but also am looking into Anesthesiology and Radiology (which are fairly competitive)

I hope that I could do any of these residencies in Canada by the time we graduate, but as of right now my hopes aren't high. I suspect for students trying to get FM or IM, it will be much easier.

But who knows what will change in the next 3.5 years, it can only get better right? Thats what i tell myself at least

You are very optimistic. Maybe I should try that. But I have very little hope of getting anything competitive in Canada. I met with some Docs in Canada after starting my degree and it's been mistaken for chiropractor school, alternative medicine, Chinese medicine, etc. And these are people who may be sitting on interview panels for residency. Anyone have any words of encouragement? Maybe it's just because I have midterms coming up too. Lol So disheartened right now.

 

[GTP]

"At least with Touro I can get student LOC and work part time in school and also get OSAP. Now I need to find a bank that will grant me 200k without cosigner."

Kliffmeister - I think you will be hard pressed to find the time / energy to work part time while in med school. You might be able to pick up a tutoring gig in 2nd year for the 1st year students if your school runs a program like that, but other than that, I don't think it is doable.

I agree. I'm at touro, and unless you are planning to get all Cs (which is cool depending on what you want), forget about the part time job. And where on campus were u hoping to get the job? I checked out the work study positions on campus and Canadians were not eligible. Also, I don't know anybody in my class who works.

 

[drgioiadds]

You are very optimistic. Maybe I should try that. But I have very little hope of getting anything competitive in Canada. I met with some Docs in Canada after starting my degree and it's been mistaken for chiropractor school, alternative medicine, Chinese medicine, etc. And these are people who may be sitting on interview panels for residency. Anyone have any words of encouragement? Maybe it's just because I have midterms coming up too. Lol So disheartened right now.

That doesn't make any sense at all. First, it doesn't make sense that a chiropractor or alternative medicine doctor would be interviewing for a residency so I highly doubt that the interviewers would think such. Secondly, I met resident with friends who studied in the Caribbean and Australia, and he told me they had no problems getting a residency in Canada.

I for one would prefer to do a residency in the US. Seems like there is more options and diversity.

 

[CXCR4]

You are very optimistic. Maybe I should try that. But I have very little hope of getting anything competitive in Canada. I met with some Docs in Canada after starting my degree and it's been mistaken for chiropractor school, alternative medicine, Chinese medicine, etc. And these are people who may be sitting on interview panels for residency. Anyone have any words of encouragement? Maybe it's just because I have midterms coming up too. Lol So disheartened right now.

This is extremely worrisome. I was under the impression that the ability to apply to match 1st round in BC and ON would mean access to specialities, however competetive they may be.

 

[GTP]

This is extremely worrisome. I was under the impression that the ability to apply to match 1st round in BC and ON would mean access to specialities, however competetive they may be.

I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to suggest that it was impossible. But it worries me when friends of mine who went to Canadian med schools are having to move to places they don't want to be to do internal medicine, emergency medicine and ortho. I have at least five friends from u of t that this happened to, and they are good students. So if they can't even hack it in Ontario or BC, and they have to move to sask and other places up north, where are the D.Os going to be hired? I'm genuwinely curious because only bad examples surround me. Does anyone know of any good outcomes? And I'm not talking about those D.Os who matched into family med and path. That's the same example I'm getting over and over again. I'm curious about more competitive specialties. Sorry again for that

 

[CXCR4]

I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to suggest that it was impossible. But it worries me when friends of mine who went to Canadian med schools are having to move to places they don't want to be to do internal medicine, emergency medicine and ortho. I have at least five friends from u of t that this happened to, and they are good students. So if they can't even hack it in Ontario or BC, and they have to move to sask and other places up north, where are the D.Os going to be hired? I'm genuwinely curious because only bad examples surround me. Does anyone know of any good outcomes? And I'm not talking about those D.Os who matched into family med and path. That's the same example I'm getting over and over again. I'm curious about more competitive specialties. Sorry again for that

I thought path was above-avearge in terms of competetiveness? Guess not...

 

[GTP]

That doesn't make any sense at all. First, it doesn't make sense that a chiropractor or alternative medicine doctor would be interviewing for a residency so I highly doubt that the interviewers would think such. Secondly, I met resident with friends who studied in the Caribbean and Australia, and he told me they had no problems getting a residency in Canada.

I for one would prefer to do a residency in the US. Seems like there is more options and diversity.

I didn't mean this verbatim. Of course they wouldn't think that I was a homeopath masquerading as something else during an actual interview. I'm just worried that they won't even give me a fair shot. Many cdn docs have asked me what a D.O was and still didn't seem convinced by my answer. I'm just trying to say that it is worrisome that the people who could be potentially deciding my fate are not very open minded. Historically, Canada has not been accepting of non Canadian graduates. I know that things are changing, but I still don't believe that Canada will chose me over a queens med school graduate even if I am a better applicant, at least for the specialty I am aspiring for. Canada has always been uptight and believed that their graduates are better than others. The same would be true if I was completing a USA md program. This is how some people feel. I have lost count of how many times I've met people with no significant ties to Canada who prefer to apply to the same Canadian med schools year after year instead of looking elsewhere because they believe that other places are inferior, even usa md schools. Just my two cents. Not trying to dishearten anyone. I just want to know if anyone interested in > general surgery has any good news or a game plan.

 

[GTP]

I thought path was above-avearge in terms of competetiveness? Guess not...

Oh, I guess it's based on your opinion. The only things I consider competitive are Road specialities,surgical specialities, and some subspecialities of IM (eg cardio and GI). Path and other specialities could be pretty competitive if you are in the top 5 program in the country. Ie it may be better to do that general surgery residency at Harvard than to accept an ENT position at a mediocre hospital assumin you are okay with either specialty.

 

[CXCR4]

Oh, I guess it's based on your opinion. The only things I consider competitive are Road specialities,surgical specialities, and some subspecialities of IM (eg cardio and GI). Path and other specialities could be pretty competitive if you are in the top 5 program in the country. Ie it may be better to do that general surgery residency at Harvard than to accept an ENT position at a mediocre hospital assumin you are okay with either specialty.

Actually I meant competitive in Canada.

From what I know of IMGs trying to match back to Canada rotating there is a big plus. I wonder what sort of road blocks (if any) we'll face to rotate in Canada, much less match there. If anyone has successfully completed a Canadian rotation feel free to chime in here.

 

[GTP]

Actually I meant competitive in Canada.

Yes as a D.O anything is competitive in Canada lol. But seriously, I heard the person is in Toronto so that is pretty competitive.

 

[drgioiadds]

Why wouldn't you try to Match a US residency?

 

[mashmetoo]

Why wouldn't you try to Match a US residency?

Good point..
so 1) wants surgery in Canada
2) Even CMGs have trouble getting surgery residency in Canada in their preferred locales
3) program directors are not familiar with USDOs (at least for the specialties)
These are all legitimate concerns.

So where does that leave you?
a) be flexible, be willing to accept that maybe surgery residency in Canada might not pan out
b) again, be flexible, try for surgery in the US, then do a fellowship to get the extra year you need to go back to Canada.
c) be flexible - FM, IM are the most likely outcomes (also psych, peds, more primary stuff).
d) unfortunately, we can't always get what we want, be prepared to accept some "insurmountable" obstacles.


z) There's no point in talking about what residency you want until your step 1 scores come out. That pretty much determines what you'll go into. All the want in the world won't change that.

There are USDOs currently in Canada in the following fields:
ER, Peds (very specialized), FM general, FM w/ geriatrics specialization, FM with exclusive OMM, Psych.
I have not seen a USDO surgeon in Canada. You might be the first

 

[deadman]

Some of you might need to be a little more flexible. Ontario and specially Toronto is a very very competitive place, not just for medicine but for any other profession. A few summers ago, i was working at a major hospital in downtown and many of the doctors finishing their residencies/fellowships there (some were CMG some IMG etc) were applying to jobs in different provinces and even in the states. Most of them told me that getting a job in many ontario hospitals is just way to hard or there arent enough positions.

Since I will most likely be going the DO route (will be attending CCOM), I am more interested in doing a residency in the states and even working in the US. Heck I dont even mind doing a AOA residency, in some thing competitive ofcourse (given that I can get sponsered for a H1B- need to look into this more).

On a personal note, I dont understand why people dont like the idea of living/working in the states. Gas is like 90 cents, clothes/other stuff is mad cheap, theres no salary caps for doctors etc etc. Over the past few years ive realized that working in canada, especially in the GTA is just way to competitive. It seriously took me over 2 goddamn years to get off the waitlist for a volunteering position at a local hospital.

But again,this is just my personal opinion, good luck everybody.

 

[mashmetoo]

Some of you might need to be a little more flexible. Ontario and specially Toronto is a very very competitive place, not just for medicine but for any other profession. A few summers ago, i was working at a major hospital in downtown and many of the doctors finishing their residencies/fellowships there (some were CMG some IMG etc) were applying to jobs in different provinces and even in the states. Most of them told me that getting a job in many ontario hospitals is just way to hard or there arent enough positions.

Since I will most likely be going the DO route (will be attending CCOM), I am more interested in doing a residency in the states and even working in the US. Heck I dont even mind doing a AOA residency, in some thing competitive ofcourse (given that I can get sponsered for a H1B- need to look into this more).

On a personal note, I dont understand why people dont like the idea of living/working in the states. Gas is like 90 cents, clothes/other stuff is mad cheap, theres no salary caps for doctors etc etc. Over the past few years ive realized that working in canada, especially in the GTA is just way to competitive. It seriously took me over 2 goddamn years to get off the waitlist for a volunteering position at a local hospital.

But again,this is just my personal opinion, good luck everybody.

Living conditions: Gun crimes, violent crimes, fairly backwards pre-post secondary education system, failing public schools, forced teachings of Creationism right next to evolution , general criminality is higher, must pay for health insurance, might get cheated out of insurance by insurance companies, scary to get sick.

working conditions: have to fight insurance companies for compensation, will likely get shafted by insurance companies in numerous occasions where you don't get paid in full, vast amounts of time lost billing insurance companies, drastic cuts from medicare/medicaid, some FM practices are struggling to survive, have to compete with nurse practitioners/ others for general FM care work... etc more cuts are coming.

Even so, I personally prefer working in the US

 

[drgioiadds]

Living conditions: Gun crimes, violent crimes, fairly backwards pre-post secondary education system, failing public schools, forced teachings of Creationism right next to evolution , general criminality is higher, must pay for health insurance, might get cheated out of insurance by insurance companies, scary to get sick.

working conditions: have to fight insurance companies for compensation, will likely get shafted by insurance companies in numerous occasions where you don't get paid in full, vast amounts of time lost billing insurance companies, drastic cuts from medicare/medicaid, some FM practices are struggling to survive, have to compete with nurse practitioners/ others for general FM care work... etc more cuts are coming.

Even so, I personally prefer working in the US

Yeah, same here. I would prefer to stay in the US if possible. I lived in Milwaukee for 5 years and loved it. I just think that there will be more opportunities/experience doing a residency in the US.

 

[deadman]

Mash I agree with you on every point but its not like working/living conditions in Canada are perfect either. Their are advantages and disadvantages of being in either system, all im trying to say is that a lot of us here need to be open to working in the US.

 

[GTP]

I completely agree with what is being said here. I would actually LOVE to do a residency in America. My chances are better (having do and md match), it's more diverse here, and I have no significant ties to Canada. My problem is that I don't have a green card. Until further notice, I am interested in some sort of surgical subspeciality (nothing crazy like plastics or ENT or urology though), and im not sure if I will be able to get an h1b. I'm scared of a j1 because the research I have done suggests that marriage doesn't change it, and that u must leave the country for two years before you can come back or join the military. It just seems like a dead end. I don't think it's easy to get an h1b at a good hospital with a good specialty. I feel like these hospitals will just save themselves trouble by hiring an equally competitive American. Thoughts?

 

[docnotsopc]

Yeah, same here. I would prefer to stay in the US if possible. I lived in Milwaukee for 5 years and loved it. I just think that there will be more opportunities/experience doing a residency in the US.

There is definitely more options in the US and better options

I agree with the pro's stated about living/working in the US

My Cons: I feel insecure to be honest. If I get hit by a car tomorrow, how will my insurance pan out? People in America are greedy, everywhere. Its uncomforting at times when I buy something and don't know if there is an alternative motive on the other end. Im sick of Pro-Army / "USA-USA" propaganda everywhere. It seems like everything somehow becomes about the army. For example, at my school there was a ceremony for the cadavers we dissected in first year. Because one of the 30+ cadavers was in the army, the entire ceremony somehow become centered around the army. lol i miss the good old fashioned red maple leaf, hockey, and REAL beer (not this light american stuff). People down here are too uptight at times

However with all that, the pro's are still amazing. It's hard to argue buying a house in Vancouver (just got ranked most expensive city in North America) or Toronto when I can buy a much bigger house for cheaper down here.

Working here would be awesome, raising a family and kids (with American education) would not be good though.

Anyway
I guess its all just some kind of rollercoaster and we are in for the long haul. Might as well maximize our positive effect on society as health care professionals and enjoy life as much as possible.

 

[drgioiadds]

I'm going to be honest and if I wasn't 100% sure I wanted to do primary care, I wouldn't have gone the DO route. Most likely, I would have applied to Northern. However, having practiced Dentistry for 10 years, I am pretty sure I don't want to do any type of surgery. My interests lie in establishing relationships with patients rather than providing some sort of surgical treatment. I would not worry too much about the H1B visa issue, because I know it can be done. I know people working on TN visa, but there profession is almost borderline. Concentrate on landing a residency that sponsors H1b and I think it will all fall into place.

 

[cbest]

Please keep in mind a few things...

1) You can't engage in residency training in the US on a TN visa. It must be either H-1B or J-1 if you don't have citizenship or permanent resident status.

2) If you plan on going back to Canada at some point after DO school and residency in the US, you must complete an ACGME residency. If you don't plan on coming back to Canada, please know the large majority of AOA residencies have no idea what to do with Canadians requiring a visa to train, which once again means you have to do an ACGME residency.

3) No matter what specialty you plan on going into, please be aware many of them have different number of years of required training. Anesthesiology, neurology, pathology, PM&R, etc are all 4 years in the US and 5 in Canada. You must complete the same number of years of ACGME training in order to be eligible to sit for RCPSC board certification exams.

 

[drgioiadds]

Please keep in mind a few things...

1) You can't engage in residency training in the US on a TN visa. It must be either H-1B or J-1 if you don't have citizenship or permanent resident status.

2) If you plan on going back to Canada at some point after DO school and residency in the US, you must complete an ACGME residency. If you don't plan on coming back to Canada, please know the large majority of AOA residencies have no idea what to do with Canadians requiring a visa to train, which once again means you have to do an ACGME residency.

3) No matter what specialty you plan on going into, please be aware many of them have different number of years of required training. Anesthesiology, neurology, pathology, PM&R, etc are all 4 years in the US and 5 in Canada. You must complete the same number of years of ACGME training in order to be eligible to sit for RCPSC board certification exams.

Yes I am aware that you cannot do a residency with a TN, since physician is not covered under NAFTA. I know a few people working with this visa, that are stretching it with there profession (chiropractors). I agree that focusing on an gaining an ACGME residency is the way to go. Personally, I'm interested in FM which is 3 years in the US and 2 in Ontario.

 

[mashmetoo]

Yes I am aware that you cannot do a residency with a TN, since physician is not covered under NAFTA. I know a few people working with this visa, that are stretching it with there profession (chiropractors). I agree that focusing on an gaining an ACGME residency is the way to go. Personally, I'm interested in FM which is 3 years in the US and 2 in Ontario.

speaking of FM, I'd like to share to Canadians dead set on FM (like myself), it might be easier/more convenient to do your FM residency in the US even though it's 1 year longer - with a ACGME FM, the Canadian FM board people will accept your US FM board exams in lieu of the Canadian one. So 1 less board to write, also, the MCCEE *can* be waived after successful completion of an ACGME residency. So you effectively write 2 less board exams vs. a Canadian USDO/MD that does a 2 year FM residency in Canada.

Also, with a ACGME 3 year FM residency, you can work in the US and Canada, whereas if you did your 2 FM year residency in Canada, not only do you owe the US 1 year of FM training, you also have to write the US FM board exams as well as the Canadian ones (US does not accept Canadian FM board exam...).. (i.e., if you want to return to work in the US).

So, for 1 extra year, you get the flexibility to work in both counntries. I just think that for Canadian USDOs, after downing ~300k+ on a US med education, the least you should expect out of it is the right to practice in AMERICA...

 

[docnotsopc]

speaking of FM, I'd like to share to Canadians dead set on FM (like myself), it might be easier/more convenient to do your FM residency in the US even though it's 1 year longer - with a ACGME FM, the Canadian FM board people will accept your US FM board exams in lieu of the Canadian one. So 1 less board to write, also, the MCCEE *can* be waived after successful completion of an ACGME residency. So you effectively write 2 less board exams vs. a Canadian USDO/MD that does a 2 year FM residency in Canada.

Also, with a ACGME 3 year FM residency, you can work in the US and Canada, whereas if you did your 2 FM year residency in Canada, not only do you owe the US 1 year of FM training, you also have to write the US FM board exams as well as the Canadian ones (US does not accept Canadian FM board exam...).. (i.e., if you want to return to work in the US).

So, for 1 extra year, you get the flexibility to work in both counntries. I just think that for Canadian USDOs, after downing ~300k+ on a US med education, the least you should expect out of it is the right to practice in AMERICA...

 

[drgioiadds]

speaking of FM, I'd like to share to Canadians dead set on FM (like myself), it might be easier/more convenient to do your FM residency in the US even though it's 1 year longer - with a ACGME FM, the Canadian FM board people will accept your US FM board exams in lieu of the Canadian one. So 1 less board to write, also, the MCCEE *can* be waived after successful completion of an ACGME residency. So you effectively write 2 less board exams vs. a Canadian USDO/MD that does a 2 year FM residency in Canada.

Also, with a ACGME 3 year FM residency, you can work in the US and Canada, whereas if you did your 2 FM year residency in Canada, not only do you owe the US 1 year of FM training, you also have to write the US FM board exams as well as the Canadian ones (US does not accept Canadian FM board exam...).. (i.e., if you want to return to work in the US).

So, for 1 extra year, you get the flexibility to work in both counntries. I just think that for Canadian USDOs, after downing ~300k+ on a US med education, the least you should expect out of it is the right to practice in AMERICA...

 

[CXCR4]

Yea it seems like we don't get priority in all three matches.

Carms: No one knows what a DO degree is.
ACGME: Visa issues + DO issues
AOA: Visa issues

 

[drgioiadds]

It seems like the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario know what a DO is so I don't see why Carms would be so difficult:

http://www.cpso.on.ca/policies/policies/default.aspx?id=2352

Visa issues? Maybe its a bit more difficult to get an H1 b, but its done all the time. I personally know someone who's parent's were IMG's and MATCHED in US programs and needed visas.

 

[GTP]

Yea it seems like we don't get priority in all three matches.

Carms: No one knows what a DO degree is.
ACGME: Visa issues + DO issues
AOA: Visa issues

This is the point I've been trying to make.

 

[GTP]

It seems like the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario know what a DO is so I don't see why Carms would be so difficult:

http://www.cpso.on.ca/policies/policies/default.aspx?id=2352

Visa issues? Maybe its a bit more difficult to get an H1 b, but its done all the time. I personally know someone who's parent's were IMG's and MATCHED in US programs and needed visas.

The issue is that Canada will always prefer it's own people. It's possible, but we are not first choice no matter which route we take.

 

[CXCR4]

The issue is that Canada will always prefer it's own people. It's possible, but we are not first choice no matter which route we take.

That's exactly what I meant to say.

 

[mashmetoo]

Why are you people such downers? Most of you are still pre-med, first years, and yet y'all are panicking over residency. There was a user a few months ago that kept posting about the GME cuts, and how Canadians won't be able to get any residency . Now it's how we are not "priority" for the match.

Y'all know about the Canadian DO that got into pathology yes? What you don't know is that the person started out as a USMD, yes, that's right, a bonofide MD, that switched to a USDO school, and is now in a Canadian residency.

An upper year at Western U that I personally know did Canadian electives, applied all over Ontario, BC, his first interview invite was from the University of Toronto, then followed by Queen's, McMaster, UWO, BEFORE any of his US interview invites came out.
The only question they asked him about the whole gone to a USDO thing was along the lines of "what is OMM?", with no negative connotations whatsoever.

Y'all need to stop feeling sorry for yourselves, and thinking that the DO thing is somehow limiting your career aspirations. Life does not give you what you want on a silver platter. Y'all need to enjoy med school, life, go out on a few dates, quit worrying about things that are 3-4 years down the road, and what may or may not be true.

I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.
-D.H. Lawrence

 

[GTP]

Why are you people such downers? Most of you are still pre-med, first years, and yet y'all are panicking over residency. There was a user a few months ago that kept posting about the GME cuts, and how Canadians won't be able to get any residency . Now it's how we are not "priority" for the match.

Y'all know about the Canadian DO that got into pathology yes? What you don't know is that the person started out as a USMD, yes, that's right, a bonofide MD, that switched to a USDO school, and is now in a Canadian residency.

An upper year at Western U that I personally know did Canadian electives, applied all over Ontario, BC, his first interview invite was from the University of Toronto, then followed by Queen's, McMaster, UWO, BEFORE any of his US interview invites came out.
The only question they asked him about the whole gone to a USDO thing was along the lines of "what is OMM?", with no negative connotations whatsoever.

Y'all need to stop feeling sorry for yourselves, and thinking that the DO thing is somehow limiting your career aspirations. Life does not give you what you want on a silver platter. Y'all need to enjoy med school, life, go out on a few dates, quit worrying about things that are 3-4 years down the road, and what may or may not be true.

I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.
-D.H. Lawrence

I wasn't trying to be a downer. I simply wanted to hear some success stories. Thanks.

 

[drgioiadds]

Why are you people such downers? Most of you are still pre-med, first years, and yet y'all are panicking over residency. There was a user a few months ago that kept posting about the GME cuts, and how Canadians won't be able to get any residency . Now it's how we are not "priority" for the match.

Y'all know about the Canadian DO that got into pathology yes? What you don't know is that the person started out as a USMD, yes, that's right, a bonofide MD, that switched to a USDO school, and is now in a Canadian residency.

An upper year at Western U that I personally know did Canadian electives, applied all over Ontario, BC, his first interview invite was from the University of Toronto, then followed by Queen's, McMaster, UWO, BEFORE any of his US interview invites came out.
The only question they asked him about the whole gone to a USDO thing was along the lines of "what is OMM?", with no negative connotations whatsoever.

Y'all need to stop feeling sorry for yourselves, and thinking that the DO thing is somehow limiting your career aspirations. Life does not give you what you want on a silver platter. Y'all need to enjoy med school, life, go out on a few dates, quit worrying about things that are 3-4 years down the road, and what may or may not be true.

I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.
-D.H. Lawrence

I agree and seriously, if you had all these doubts then why would you invest 300k in a US DO degree.??

 

[CXCR4]

Because we didn't get into a Canadian med school and DO is a better route than the Caribbean? I am puzzled as to why you think it is unacceptable to voice doubts/concerns. No one is saying that the DO route will not lead to a residency.