Do HSP registration or ABPP actually matter?

[R. Matey]

Hey there,

Still spending my life applying for things over here. I saw some emails go out on scholarships for post docs and ECPs to apply for ABPP and HSP registration. I know ABPP is a thing in neuropsychology, but what about other boards? Also, national HSP registration? I mean I know the start up costs would be covered, but what about the maintenance fees? I only have so much money...

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[ClinicalABA]

Hey there,

Still spending my life applying for things over here. I saw some emails go out on scholarships for post docs and ECPs to apply for ABPP and HSP registration. I know ABPP is a thing in neuropsychology, but what about other boards? Also, national HSP registration? I mean I know the start up costs would be covered, but what about the maintenance fees? I only have so much money...

ABBP may give you some advantages in some specialties like neuropsych. I have not really encountered it much, if at all, in other areas. I don’t have ABBP boarding and have never been asked about (I’m not in neuropsych, however). I had never heard of National HSP before your post. It MAY make the licensing process slightly easier in some states, but I don’t recall it even being asked about in the applications on the 2 states I’m licensed in.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Outside of neuropsych (and perhaps rehab and forensic), the main advantage may be the credential banking, which can make applying for licensure in different states less of a hassle. Some states also let you forego parts of the licensing process if your ABPP'd, depending (e.g., I believe Texas lets you skip their oral exam if your ABPP specialty included an oral exam).

I've been surprised, based on listserv responses, at the large number of non-neuropsych/rehab/forensic ABPP folks in my state. I'm not sure what additional benefits it provides them, but perhaps increased marketability is one of them (many seem to be in private practice).

I'd probably pick one or the other, if you choose to pursue. Of the two, ABPP may be the more broadly beneficial, but also probably entails more steps.

 

[Seven_Costanza]

Outside of neuropsych (and perhaps rehab and forensic), the main advantage may be the credential banking, which can make applying for licensure in different states less of a hassle. Some states also let you forego parts of the licensing process if your ABPP'd, depending (e.g., I believe Texas lets you skip their oral exam if your ABPP specialty included an oral exam).

I've been surprised, based on listserv responses, at the large number of non-neuropsych/rehab/forensic ABPP folks in my state. I'm not sure what additional benefits it provides them, but perhaps increased marketability is one of them (many seem to be in private practice).

I'd probably pick one or the other, if you choose to pursue. Of the two, ABPP may be the more broadly beneficial, but also probably entails more steps.

I was wondering if anybody could share how much of a salary bump the VA gives you after board certification. I know that it’ll likely change based on location/step - is the amount based on a percentage?

What about AMC settings?

(Sorry that this is tangentially related to the OP)

 

[WisNeuro]

I was wondering if anybody could share how much of a salary bump the VA gives you after board certification. I know that it’ll likely change based on location/step - is the amount based on a percentage?

What about AMC settings?

(Sorry that this is tangentially related to the OP)

If they honor it, not every VA does, it's an automatic step increase.

As for the AMC, I haven't seen the salary increase as much as it's been a stipulation upon hiring, as in "get board certified within 5 years of hiring, or find a new place to work."

 

[thebalmofhurtminds]

For the AMCs that I interviewed with,, it's a 5-7% bonus with board certification. Many provided reimbursement for costs as well.

Most of the VAs provided no incentive or, as WisNeuro said, a step increase.

 

[PsyDr]

As far as I can tell the National Register had some pretty good lobbying back in the day. Some states use their credential bank which can ease mobility. Some states encourage its use. It seems antiquated, but codified into last in some places.

cpq thing seems to be the more modern version of the hsp. It is tied into the eppp source, so it’s probably better. Some states require its use.

abpp as a credential bank does help with mobility as well. Some states allow this to be used in a similar manner to cpq and hsp.

Board certification just means you’ve subjected yourself to peer review in an area of specialty . That’s it. It’s a move to mimic medicine. Literally started because the VA offered a pay increase for boarded physicians. Some smart psychologists created their own board and got the same pay increase. Then it developed into a “this is how we think people should be trained”. Now it’s a issue of an in group trying to restrict the trade of any out groups. Pretty stupid. If one compares the number of specialities for psychiatry to the number for psychology, one will see psychology has a LOT more specialties. I doubt that dividing the profession into increasingly small areas is a good thing.

The majority of insurance contracts, hospital Credentialing, and legal proceedings will ask you if you’re boarded. I’ve never had problems when not boarded and when boarded.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I was wondering if anybody could share how much of a salary bump the VA gives you after board certification. I know that it’ll likely change based on location/step - is the amount based on a percentage?

What about AMC settings?

(Sorry that this is tangentially related to the OP)

As was mentioned above, it's a one-step increase. Which I think works out to a bit below 3%. I received it, but it took a few months.

VA has gone to removing local professional review boards and instead centralizing the process, so I'm not sure how this will impact step increases for boarding going forward.

 

[Seven_Costanza]

For the AMCs that I interviewed with,, it's a 5-7% bonus with board certification. Many provided reimbursement for costs as well.

Most of the VAs provided no incentive or, as WisNeuro said, a step increase.

Many thanks to you and WisNeuro!

 

[deleted343839]

What about AMC settings?

Departments or sections that employ neuropsychologists often require board certification. Mayo Clinic requires all its psychologist faculty, regardless of specialty, to become board certified. Elsewhere, and in other specialties, board certification may be encouraged or rewarded (eg, may be considered as part of a promotion packet) but it seems to be more aspirational.

 

[WisNeuro]

Departments or sections that employ neuropsychologists often require board certification. Mayo Clinic requires all its psychologist faculty, regardless of specialty, to become board certified. Elsewhere, and in other specialties, board certification may be encouraged or rewarded (eg, may be considered as part of a promotion packet) but it seems to be more aspirational.

It is mandated in almost every hospital system here, either BC or get it within so many years of hire.

 

[deleted343839]

It is mandated in almost every hospital system here, either BC or get it within so many years of hire.

Even for non-neuro specialties? Interesting. I know a few years back some folks in clinical health tried to scope the board certification requirements of different institutions but only came up with Mayo and a handful of others.

 

[WisNeuro]

Even for non-neuro specialties? Interesting. I know a few years back some folks in clinical health tried to scope the board certification requirements of different institutions but only came up with Mayo and a handful of others.

Mostly for Neuro, about 50/50 for Rehab

 

[Sanman]

Mostly for Neuro, about 50/50 for Rehab

Interesting. I have been encouraged to complete ABPP for gero, but I'm not sure it is worth it unless I delve into legal work. My VA has not actually given anyone a step increase for ABPP yet, though people have been fighting for it.

 

[Ollie123]

Seems to matter if you are in neuro/rehab. Maybe forensics depending on what you are doing in that area.

I'm at a Top 10 AMC in a psychiatry department. I think most if not all of our neuro/rehab folks are boarded (I have limited interaction with our neuro folks so don't know for sure- always amazes me how little overlap neuropsychology and neuroscience have in many places). Literally no one else has breathed a word of ABPP since I arrived. Many people legit don't know that boarding exists in psychology outside the neuro world. I have had several people genuinely get confused when I ask about it. There certainly isn't any incentive for pursuing it. My internship AMC (also top 10) was the same. I didn't meet a single boarded individual when I was there. That isn't an exaggeration. Literally zero.

Barring a major career shift for me, I just can't see any reason to do it. I'd like to, just isn't worth the time at present.

 

[WisNeuro]

Interesting. I have been encouraged to complete ABPP for gero, but I'm not sure it is worth it unless I delve into legal work. My VA has not actually given anyone a step increase for ABPP yet, though people have been fighting for it.

3/4 of the VAs I trained/worked at gave the step increase for it. For me, it's been worth it as it opens the door to more forensic and higher paying opportunities than general clinical work.

 

[deleted106747]

As far as I can tell the National Register had some pretty good lobbying back in the day. Some states use their credential bank which can ease mobility. Some states encourage its use. It seems antiquated, but codified into last in some places.

cpq thing seems to be the more modern version of the hsp. It is tied into the eppp source, so it’s probably better. Some states require its use.

abpp as a credential bank does help with mobility as well. Some states allow this to be used in a similar manner to cpq and hsp.

Board certification just means you’ve subjected yourself to peer review in an area of specialty . That’s it. It’s a move to mimic medicine. Literally started because the VA offered a pay increase for boarded physicians. Some smart psychologists created their own board and got the same pay increase. Then it developed into a “this is how we think people should be trained”. Now it’s a issue of an in group trying to restrict the trade of any out groups. Pretty stupid. If one compares the number of specialities for psychiatry to the number for psychology, one will see psychology has a LOT more specialties. I doubt that dividing the profession into increasingly small areas is a good thing.

The majority of insurance contracts, hospital Credentialing, and legal proceedings will ask you if you’re boarded. I’ve never had problems when not boarded and when boarded.

I have board certification in my area and when I was working at the VA I got a step increase. It has opened doors for me professionally and given me a stronger voice at the table in other settings.

I do think that specialization in psychology is a good thing. Psychiatry is a field of medicine, so it is its own specialty, but at the same time - working with people in this manner is incredibly complex because people are complex. I'm pretty good at the areas I'm in, but I know when I'm out of my depth. I see a lot of people listing every diagnosis in the book under their areas of expertise and I have to roll my eyes. When someone comes to me in my area after seeing other therapists who are more broad, I'm usually able to help them better because of my more narrow and directed knowledge base.

 

[PsyDr]

I have board certification in my area and when I was working at the VA I got a step increase. It has opened doors for me professionally and given me a stronger voice at the table in other settings.

I do think that specialization in psychology is a good thing. Psychiatry is a field of medicine, so it is its own specialty, but at the same time - working with people in this manner is incredibly complex because people are complex. I'm pretty good at the areas I'm in, but I know when I'm out of my depth. I see a lot of people listing every diagnosis in the book under their areas of expertise and I have to roll my eyes. When someone comes to me in my area after seeing other therapists who are more broad, I'm usually able to help them better because of my more narrow and directed knowledge base.

I have a different point of view.

1) The ethics code has specific instructions about practicing in one's own area of competence.
2) ABPP has made a clever shift in verbiage, from "expertise" to "competence". That is a significant problem. And I find a lot of psychologists incompetent.

3) ABPP acts like graduate school education is insufficient to treat:
1) 50% of the population
2) children
3) older people

I have a hard time believing that a graduate from an APA approved clinical program was solely trained on adult males. It doesn't come close to fitting epidemiological studies.

If there was a 70 year old female police officer who presents for a neuropsych assessment because she's thinking she needs workers comp. Since ABPP is claiming they're the bastion of competence, does one need to be ABPP'ed in 1) police, 2) gero, 3) neuro, 4) and female/women when that comes online, 5) forensics. Because there is no one with those credentials in the entire USA.

 

[WisNeuro]

I have a hard time believing that a graduate from an APA approved clinical program was solely trained on adult males.

In looking through hundreds of internship applications over the past decade, you would be very surprised at the lack of breadth here in many applicant's training history.

 

[PsyDr]

In looking through hundreds of internship applications over the past decade, you would be very surprised at the lack of breadth here in many applicant's training history.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised at anyone's incompetence; ABPPed or not.

 

[WisNeuro]

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised at anyone's incompetence; ABPPed or not.

I am not either, though I am surprised at the lack of variety in training experiences some applicants come into internship with. Well, less surprised now that I see it quite regularly...

 

[Sanman]

I have a different point of view.

1) The ethics code has specific instructions about practicing in one's own area of competence.
2) ABPP has made a clever shift in verbiage, from "expertise" to "competence". That is a significant problem. And I find a lot of psychologists incompetent.

3) ABPP acts like graduate school education is insufficient to treat:
1) 50% of the population
2) children
3) older people

I have a hard time believing that a graduate from an APA approved clinical program was solely trained on adult males. It doesn't come close to fitting epidemiological studies.

If there was a 70 year old female police officer who presents for a neuropsych assessment because she's thinking she needs workers comp. Since ABPP is claiming they're the bastion of competence, does one need to be ABPP'ed in 1) police, 2) gero, 3) neuro, 4) and female/women when that comes online, 5) forensics. Because there is no one with those credentials in the entire USA.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Especially given the ridiculous amount of overlap for some of these areas.

I was primarily trained in health psych and neuropsychology at the doctoral level. From graduation to this day, I have worked in geriatrics and sub-acute rehab. In that time, I have worked with those trained in general psych, clinical health psych, and neuropsychology. Yet, we are all working in the same position. Most of us would not fit a narrow enough definition to be boarded in anything except for some of the neuropsych people. Yet, in the real world of jobs, you may be called for expertise in one or all of these areas.

So, who is competent for a job where you can run into undiagnosed dementia/ delirium, refusal to participate in rehab, capacity questions, adjustment to a cancer diagnosis, and life stage issues in the same day?

 

[R. Matey]

Thanks for the feedback and interesting discussion. Just getting back to this, so my question might seem irrelevant to the direction this thread has gone.

But...can someone please explain what is meant credential banking? It’s not a term I’ve encountered before.


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[R. Matey]

Ultimately, it sounds APBB is mainly worth it for licensure portability. But the net benefit sounds pretty minimal. HSP registration sounds like it’s not worth it at all.


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[Sanman]

Thanks for the feedback and interesting discussion. Just getting back to this, so my question might seem irrelevant to the direction this thread has gone.

But...can someone please explain what is meant credential banking? It’s not a term I’ve encountered before.


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Crendential banking is basically having a copy of all your credentials (grad transcripts, certified internship hours, certified post-doc hours, etc) banked independently so that if you need to get licensed in another state later the credential bank can send copies rather than you having to chase down supervisors. You do have to pay an ongoing fee for this though and it is only beneficial if you need copies of that stuff later.

 

[medium rare]

Ultimately, it sounds APBB is mainly worth it for licensure portability. But the net benefit sounds pretty minimal. HSP registration sounds like it’s not worth it at all.


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CPQ through ASPPB is a better option for licensure mobility.

Agree that outside of neuro there is little to no reason for ABPP. I have never had a need for it, not having it has in no way hindered my career, and I cannot imagine getting it now or in the future.

 

[Woodsjd]

I work in university counseling and got ABPP in Counseling Psychology for ease of licensure mobility because I knew I would be moving across the country for my spouse's medical training. I used my work's professional development funds to cover all fees and travel for the in person part of the exam. Since I work in college counseling, my summers are slower. I spent 2 summers preparing the material. Overall, it was worth it for me just for license mobility.

 

[pediatric_psydoc]

Even for non-neuro specialties? Interesting. I know a few years back some folks in clinical health tried to scope the board certification requirements of different institutions but only came up with Mayo and a handful of others.

I have actually encountered a few job listings for children’s hospitals stating that ABPP certification must be achieved within X years of hire.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

I use the national register as a credentialing bank and have found it to be very helpful. Feel free to PM me if you have additional questions.

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[deleted106747]

I have a different point of view.

1) The ethics code has specific instructions about practicing in one's own area of competence.
2) ABPP has made a clever shift in verbiage, from "expertise" to "competence". That is a significant problem. And I find a lot of psychologists incompetent.

3) ABPP acts like graduate school education is insufficient to treat:
1) 50% of the population
2) children
3) older people

I have a hard time believing that a graduate from an APA approved clinical program was solely trained on adult males. It doesn't come close to fitting epidemiological studies.

If there was a 70 year old female police officer who presents for a neuropsych assessment because she's thinking she needs workers comp. Since ABPP is claiming they're the bastion of competence, does one need to be ABPP'ed in 1) police, 2) gero, 3) neuro, 4) and female/women when that comes online, 5) forensics. Because there is no one with those credentials in the entire USA.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think your example generalizes. I can't speak to police psychology. It does appear to me that someone in gero OR neuro would be competent, and there is no board for women's psychology as you said. It's an OR situation vs. an AND situation. You don't need all of them to be able to evaluate this woman. In medicine, you'll get a different perspective on a brain injury from a psychiatrist and a neurologist, but you don't need both specialties to be able to offer a clinically valid opinion.

Personally, I am working in a setting where my specialty makes sense, but I don't like to say more on a public message board. I also think psychologists should be aiming for leadership positions, and being boarded helps with par with physicians. Additionally, I have found quite a number of incompetent psychologists - and particularly neuropsychologists - and I like the idea of more oversight.

Being boarded may not make sense for every psychologist, and that's fine. But it doesn't not make sense for all of us.

 

[R. Matey]

I use the national register as a credentialing bank and have found it to be very helpful. Feel free to PM me if you have additional questions.

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Thanks! I'll take you up on it.

 

[PsyDr]

I see what you're saying, but I don't think your example generalizes. I can't speak to police psychology. It does appear to me that someone in gero OR neuro would be competent, and there is no board for women's psychology as you said. It's an OR situation vs. an AND situation. You don't need all of them to be able to evaluate this woman. In medicine, you'll get a different perspective on a brain injury from a psychiatrist and a neurologist, but you don't need both specialties to be able to offer a clinically valid opinion.

Personally, I am working in a setting where my specialty makes sense, but I don't like to say more on a public message board. I also think psychologists should be aiming for leadership positions, and being boarded helps with par with physicians. Additionally, I have found quite a number of incompetent psychologists - and particularly neuropsychologists - and I like the idea of more oversight.

Being boarded may not make sense for every psychologist, and that's fine. But it doesn't not make sense for all of us.

1) I think we have a different appreciation of the term "competence", given its legal and ethical importance.
2) ABMS doesn't say they define competence. And ABPN has a brain injury medicine specialty that both neuro and psych can do under the same board, so I don't know what your example has to do with that.
3) I didn't say boarding was a bad idea. I just think ABPP is internally inconsistent with their methods to such a degree that it is either a clear attempt to financially control the profession (badly) or it is an so wildly incompetent as to not matter. If the minimal competence in X specialty is a set of requirements, that don't apply to people trained before Y; then it's not really the minimal competence, is it? It's just an idea that what was good for me is too easy for you.
4) We absolutely have different ideas about how leadership works. The psychologist that the NIMH appointed as interim director sure wasn't ABPP. The person that negotiates the CMS rates for all of our profession doesn't have ABPP.

 

[erg923]

Outside the clinical service arena, I think, no.

If we want psychology and psychologists to rise above the encroachment we often talk about and see on this board, I think we have to get past the notion that we should aspire to be just like all the other health-service or allied health service providers in this country. I think (unfortunately) the equivalence ship sailed long ago and ain't ever coming back. I mean, it's fundamental question and problem, right? Do we want to continue to try to emulate medicine (and psychiatry largely), or be something different within the healthcare landscape?

The psychologists (by trade/training at least) who have even a semblance of control and authority in healthcare management, policy, and leadership in this country (and I mean above the Antonio Puente type leadership) don't do "psychologist stuff" because you aren't really functioning as a psychologist (and associated competencies) at that level. I have long said that getting an MBA, being less "squishy" and taking on big projects in behavioral healthcare and behavioral healthcare business/financial management is what we should transitioning towards as Ph.Ds in psychology. And of course their will always be a place for the research hounds, the true scientist-practitioners, and the hardcore academic psychologists in there too.

For a service line position, I think ABPP is a fine thing to aspire to and do if you have the spare time. But I don't know how it translates beyond very basic stuff like a GS step bump, or a bit more money or clinical opportunity/referrals? Although I realize some jobs seem to require it now. However, if one were to look at the chief behavioral health officers/leaders at Centene, Aetna, Optum, Cigna, New Directions, Anthem, and other businesses through the country etc. What would they find? What about the 30 most successful private practice psychology owners in the US. What would they find? What about the psychologists at NIH that review your grant applications? They would find individuals who could lead, right? You would find psychologists who realized what is optimal/perfect is not always achievable within the current healthcare landscape. How many department heads and deans at Duke, UC, Purdue, Michigan, Indiana have ABPP? Point is, I just don't think the boarding thing in line with the leadership mentality we promote so heavily on here? And I don't how it advances the profession toward the types of roles and positions we often aspire to/aim for/promote on this board? It certainly does NOT seem to be aligned with the Delaware Model/Clinical-Science model of training that is so popular on here?

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I think boarding adds another credential. When all things are even between 2 practitioners and one is boarded, well then I'd choose the boarded one (as a referral, the layperson wouldn't know the difference).

Boarding also gets you into a club. Boarding may look good for mid-career folks changing jobs. The salary bump is definitely well worth it.

FWIW, I am not boarded (I am not rehab or neuro) and I don't plan to anytime soon (particular since I only do clinical work in a research context). But I am not against the idea of boarding. Since I do DBT, I am much more likely to potentially pursue DBT-LBC then general ABPP for Clinical or Cognitive & Behavioral.

Finally, unless pursuing neuro or rehab I wouldn't spend much time thinking about boarding. Once you are out in the working world your views can change a lot based on your environment.