Do I have a chance at any BS/MD Programs? If not , what undergrad schools should I apply for?

[sonpat]

High School: Middlesex County Academy of Science, Mathematics and Engineering Technologies (9th best school in NJ, 4th best STEM School in US)
Asian (Indian) Female from NJ

GPA: 3.82/4.00 (Unweighted) , 4.82/4.00 (Weighted)
SAT: 2340 (800/800 Writing, 740/800 Math, 800/800 Reading) - single sitting
SAT Biology: 790/800- single sitting
SAT Chemistry: 730/800 - single sitting
SAT Math II: 790/800 -single sitting
AP Biology: 4/5
AP Psychology : 5/5
AP Chemistry : 3/5
All AP's were self studied as my school only offers 2 AP courses senior year (which I will be taking- AP Calc BC and AP Lit Comp )

Extra Curriculars:
Drexel Neuroscience Summer Camp – Philadelphia, Pennsylvania July 2014
Member
- Selected for a two week Neuroscience program at Drexel College of Medicine where I received intensive training on Brain and Spinal Cord anatomy, Electrophysiology, Cellular neuroscience, Sensory processing, Neuropathology, Neuropharmacology, Comparative neuroanatomy and Brain machine interfacing
- Shadowed PhD students conducting research on the use of stem cells in the treatment of spinal cord injuries in rats
- Gained experience and knowledge of data collection techniques and analysis processes
- Presented observation summaries of the research projects to the Drexel University researchers and professors

Muni Seva Ashram/ Cancer Research Hospital – Goraj, India (June - July 2014)
Shadowing and volunteering
- Shadowed oncologists, general physicians, and surgeons as they were attending to cancer patients; and researchers who were investigating new treatment options
- Learned and observed various forms of cancer diagnosis and treatments, including biopsies, PET and CAT scans, radiation therapy, and chemotherapy
- Observed live tumor removal surgeries (soft cell sarcoma, colonectomy, amputation) from the Operating Room
- Helped orphaned children in various areas such as aiding with homework, educating about hygiene, smoking cession, and various mentoring activities

DNA Research Club – Edison, NJ (Sept. 2013 - Present)
Member
- Club is a collaboration with the Waksman Student Scholars Program hosted by Rutgers University - Isolated and sequenced genes from the Landoltia punctate plant, which are then deposited in the international sequence database for students and other scientists to use - Compared the genes from the Landoltia punctata, with genes from other eukaryotes to determine the evolutionary relationship of these organisms and the sequence conservation of specific genes
- Developed basic research and lab skills such as pipetting, centrifuging, gel electrophoresis, creating cDNA libraries, using reverse transcriptase, using ampicillin and conducting bioinformatics searches of the Databases
- Learned about the nuances of genetics and DNA
- Contributed to the publication of DNA sequences in the public DNA database in NICB for further research and development

JFK Hartwyck – Edison, NJ July 2013 – Present
Volunteer
- Enhanced knowledge of general biology and healing process by talking with the on call doctors and nurses
- Contributed to the facility by aiding elderly residents with daily activities, socialization and medication

Vraj Youth Camp – Schuylkill Haven, PA August 2014
Counselor/Volunteer
- Mentored, counseled and guided a group of six campers during a weeklong overnight camp
- Worked with a team of 20 other counselors to ensure the welfare of over 100 young campers for the duration of the camp
- Aided in planning and organizing daily activities along with core team of adult volunteers and other counselors
- Helped with teaching classes and supervising outdoor activities

Red Cross Club – Edison, NJ September 2014 – Present
Secretary
- Planned and organized Breast Cancer Walk and Talent Show to raise money for cancer research
- Work closely with local Red Cross Shelter to participate in projects to better the local community by hosting food, clothes and book drives - Organized first aid training at my high school
- Demonstrated responsibility, organization and presentation skills, and teamwork

Academy Biology League Team – Edison, NJ September 2013 – June 2013
Member
- One of four students selected, based on academic standings, to represent my high school in monthly state-level challenge tests in Biology
- Our school was in the top five schools in NJ standings for Biology League 2014

Academy Academic Challenge Team– Edison, NJ September 2013 – Present
Member
- Represented my school at multiple NMQT Quizbowl general knowledge competitions
- Top scorer for the Academy at the Princeton Meet in 2014
- Learned how to operate under pressure, work in a team and think quickly

Safety Ambassador – Edison, NJ September 2014 – Present
Lead Ambassador
- Program conducted by Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital
- Visit elementary school classrooms and teach young students basic safety skills
- Learned how to give effective presentations and showed leadership

I also started volunteering at RWJ University Hospital , Took Part in the RWJ Summer Science Scholars Acadmey (Where I took courses (anatomy and physiology) taught by UMDNJ faculty and worked in a cadaver lab and used a suturing machine to suture pigs hooves. Also presented at a research symposium as part of this program) , and began volunteering as an EMT Cadet this summer.

do i have any chance at a 7 year program or am i deluding myself? These are some I'm interested in
Penn State/ Jefferson
TCNJ / NJMS
Rutgers/NJMS
NJIT/ NJMS
Montclair State University / NJMS
Virginia Commonwealth University
University of Alabama -Birmingham
UMKC
Temple
Villanova/ Drexel

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[md-2020]

You are competitive for any BS/MD in the country, though obviously the top ones are always rough. You should get in some low tier programs like the ones you have listed.

However: As someone who considered these and even applied/got into one, I'd strongly caution you against them. Your scores are good, your ECs are good, and despite being an ORM in the college admission process, you'll probably have a good shot at some great traditional UGs. I would choose that over a low-tier BS/MD in a heartbeat.

My suggestions:

Rutgers (Safety)
Any reach school you want, because you'll most certainly get into Rutgers.

 

[sonpat]

humm ok thanks so much! I was looking at schools like Duke , Cornell , JHU, UCLA, and Columbia as my reach schools. My Target schools are UN Chapel Hill and University of Virginia . My safeties are Rutgers and NJIT. Do you think that''s a good plan? I'm not entirely sure what to major in as I'd like a degree I could use even if i don't get into med school.

 

[md-2020]

humm ok thanks so much! I was looking at schools like Duke , Cornell , JHU, UCLA, and Columbia as my reach schools. My Target schools are UN Chapel Hill and University of Virginia . My safeties are Rutgers and NJIT. Do you think that''s a good plan? I'm not entirely sure what to major in as I'd like a degree I could use even if i don't get into med school.

UCLA, Cornell, and JHU are brutal for pre-meds, would not recommend. A factor that HS seniors often overlook is how life as a student at a particular school will be, which turns out to be absurdly important.

You can aim a bit higher than UVA and UNC, though keep them if you want. A sample of 10 schools I'd apply to if I were you:

Rutgers (safety)
NJIT (safety)
Duke (low reach)
UVA (your call)
UNC (your call)
Northwestern (low reach)--has early assurance for its own sophomores
Vanderbilt (match)
Dartmouth (match)
Penn (low reach)
Brown (match)--Possibly the best school for a pre-med, I can explain in detail if you wish
Columbia (reach)
Georgetown (match)--has early assurance for its sophomores

I'd like to repeat again that BS/MD's are a bad idea. Please take note.

 

[sonpat]

UCLA, Cornell, and JHU are brutal for pre-meds, would not recommend. A factor that HS seniors often overlook is how life as a student at a particular school will be, which turns out to be absurdly important.

You can aim a bit higher than UVA and UNC, though keep them if you want. A sample of 10 schools I'd apply to if I were you:

Rutgers (safety)
NJIT (safety)
Duke (low reach)
UVA (your call)
UNC (your call)
Northwestern (low reach)--has early assurance for its own sophomores
Vanderbilt (match)
Dartmouth (match)
Penn (low reach)
Brown (match)--Possibly the best school for a pre-med, I can explain in detail if you wish
Columbia (reach)
Georgetown (match)--has early assurance for its sophomores

I'd like to repeat again that BS/MD's are a bad idea. Please take note.

ahh ok thanks so much! Why do you think the BS/MD programs are a bad idea?

 

[md-2020]

ahh ok thanks so much! Why do you think the BS/MD programs are a bad idea?

1. As a high stats applicant you have a multitude of other great choices. UG is not a bridge to medical school--it's an experience to last a lifetime in of itself, and possibly the place where you will always feel a special attachment to. There is no reason to go to an un-tiered UG just so you're "secure" in going to an equally low ranked med school, esp when your other options are great.
2. BS/MD relieves some stress, sure, but it's still far from a guarantee. With a few exceptions, you often have to maintain 3.5+ GPA on all pre-med pre-reqs, score 30+ (or new test equiv) on the MCAT, etc. That's a pretty raw deal, considering all the sacrifices you already made.
3. Cost. Top schools are ridiculously generous w/ fin. aid. Though this didn't factor in for me (didn't qualify unfortunately), chances are if you're a middle class American who gets in, you'll save a ton of cash for eventual med school tuition.
4. College rocks.

I know you may be willing to make all the sacrifices and hop into a BS/MD right now (I know I was), but trust me, traditional UG is the way to go. Looking back it was the best (academic) decision I've ever made.

 

[Law2Doc]

ahh ok thanks so much! Why do you think the BS/MD programs are a bad idea?

If you have good credentials you are better off going to a better school, exploring more interests, and allowing yourself to actually decide on medicine at a more mature age, after having tried coursework in other disciplines. BS/MD have fallen out of favor with a lot of educators as it's become accepted that more well rounded physicians who try other disciplines first and decide on a career after their teen years often tend to be less professionally frustrated. College should be a great period of personal growth and explanation, not a preordained funnel to med school. You'll have a better time in college and probably end up at an equivalent or better med school if you go liberal arts rather than combined path. When you take a shortcut you tend to miss the scenery on the longer route.

 

[efle]

I'd skip BS/MD and apply to at least half of the Top ~20 undergrads. However MIT, U Chicago, JHU, Cornell, UC Berkeley (and UCLA) are generally known to be extremely rough as premeds, with a lot more stress/competition/grade deflation than peer institutions.

So I'd recommend throwing apps at a majority of: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Penn, Columbia, Dartmouth, Brown, Duke, Northwestern, WashU, Vandy, Rice, Emory. Italicized can be considered high odds of admission since they love high test scores, are absolutely packed with premeds, and don't require you to have as interesting/unique/impressive of a narrative for your app compared to the likes of HYPS. Chapel and UVA can be considered safeties for a 2340/3.8/good ECs. Rutgers and NJIT are very safety.

 

[md-2020]

@efle I'm going to have to disagree with you here, with the college admissions game the way it is today (exponentially harder than for even us a few short years back) the OP, as an ORM w/ normal background/SES status, does not have the chops for HYPSM. You need both stellar grades & a crowning EC achievement. OP's ECs are well tailored for BS/MD but decidedly below average for normal elite UGs. While working with my schools admissions office, I was repeatedly told by adcoms that stuff like doctor shadowing, health outreach, and science pubs mean very little in freshman admissions.

The average SAT (OP's strongest point) of all Northwestern (read: not HYPSM) students was 2220 last year. The average SAT of NU's Asian students was 2320-2350! That makes OP no more than a face in the crowd.

I've personally seen at least 5 perfect 2400's rejected from my Tier 2 Ivy, and it wasn't due to yield protection. They simply weren't the complete package.

OP is too cookie cutter for the best of the best.

 

[efle]

I missed the Asian status. HYPS is indeed super duper reach. I bet they still get love from the rank 5-15 crowd though!

 

[ZedsDed]

OP, I don't really know anything about college admissions. But FWIW I had similar stats to yours and I was told by my high school counselor to not bother applying to Ivy League schools. Of course this was years ago, and I had almost nothing in the way of ECs save for a once-a-week volunteering gig (I was too busy working to help support my family to waste time on trying to look "interesting"), but ECs are apparently very important.

 

[efle]

OP, I don't really know anything about college admissions. But FWIW I had similar stats to yours and I was told by my high school counselor to not bother applying to Ivy League schools. Of course this was years ago, and I had almost nothing in the way of ECs save for a once-a-week volunteering gig (I was too busy working to help support my family to waste time on trying to look "interesting"), but ECs are apparently very important.

Being a high schooler earning money to support a family is an Ivy attention grabbing EC dude. Coming from poverty with a 2300 SAT would have gotten you seriously considered, they realize people from that kind of background aren't going to have expensive summers at science camp or fancy private STEM highschool programs on their resume. Stanford especially loves underdog stories, your counselor really screwed up

 

[ZedsDed]

Being a high schooler earning money to support a family is an Ivy attention grabbing EC dude. Coming from poverty with a 2300 SAT would have gotten you seriously considered, they realize people from that kind of background aren't going to have expensive summers at science camp or fancy private STEM highschool programs on their resume. Stanford especially loves underdog stories, your counselor really screwed up

Really? Huh. Not sure how I feel about that

 

[md-2020]

Being a high schooler earning money to support a family is an Ivy attention grabbing EC dude. Coming from poverty with a 2300 SAT would have gotten you seriously considered, they realize people from that kind of background aren't going to have expensive summers at science camp or fancy private STEM highschool programs on their resume. Stanford especially loves underdog stories, your counselor really screwed up

Really? Huh. Not sure how I feel about that

Unfortunately that's probably not enough, so don't feel too bad, Zeds.

Stanford admits (for whites and asians, atleast) are more along the lines of All-American athletes, recognized actors/musicians/public figures, leaders of charities/volunteer organizations etc.

Working is commendable but unfortunately the bar is astronomical these days. There's a "points" system at my UG, where the importance of ECs get assigned a value by each adcom member. Working to support a family, though important would not have been enough even for my school. There's a systemic disregard for ORM races coming from SES disadvantaged backgrounds, so while I agree with @efle that you are probably deserving of Stanford types coming from that scenario, I can 100% promise you that the adcom would have overlooked your app. For every disadvantaged white/asian kid that applies, there's 10 URMs that'd bring far more campus diversity.

It's a flawed system, but there's really no way around it. Such is life.

 

[efle]

Really? Huh. Not sure how I feel about that

I mean, you really didn't miss much since you still went to a very well regarded name without paying for it, iirc. If you'd ended up at Mediocre State it would've been a huge missed opportunity. But yeah that kind of narrative put in your personal statement + strong academic metrics is exactly the kind of thing that makes you stand out in a crowd of similar scoring cookie cutters. The other big ins are 1) legacy 2) under repped minority 3) a national-level recognition or otherwise greatly distinguished performance in your big selling point EC (what md-2020 called "crowning" earlier)

 

[efle]

Unfortunately that's probably not enough, so don't feel too bad, Zeds.

Stanford admits (for whites and asians, atleast) are more along the lines of All-American athletes, recognized actors/musicians/public figures, leaders of charities/volunteer organizations etc.

Working is commendable but unfortunately the bar is astronomical these days. There's a "points" system at my UG, where the importance of ECs get assigned a value by each adcom member. Working to support a family, though important would not have been enough even for my school. There's a systemic disregard for ORM races coming from SES disadvantaged backgrounds, so while I agree with @efle that you are probably deserving of Stanford types coming from that scenario, I can 100% promise you that the adcom would have overlooked your app. For every disadvantaged white/asian kid that applies, there's 10 URMs that'd bring far more campus diversity.

It's a flawed system, but there's really no way around it. Such is life.

Disagree here, I think you overestimate the proportion of national merit finalists / 2300+ / etc that come with a FAFSA showing poverty levels of income. I do think the systematic disregard for SES disadvantaged ORM relative to URM may be true, but that's generally talking about people with numbers at the 25th percentile for the school and lower. Paired with a ~2340 a poor kid working jobs in high school is going to get looked at even when he's Asian.

 

[md-2020]

Disagree here, I think you overestimate the proportion of national merit finalists / 2300+ / etc that come with a FAFSA showing poverty levels of income. I do think the systemic disregard for SES disadvantaged ORM relative to URM may be true, but that's generally talking about people with numbers at the 25th percentile for the school and lower. Paired with a ~2340 a poor kid working jobs in high school is going to get looked at even when he's Asian.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Adcoms have a job: to bring the most talented yet diverse class to campus. Like it or not, there's a cap to how many whites and asians they can admit. Almost uniformly, these spots will go to high achievers (grades, ECs, sports) and backdoors (legacy, money, etc). Why? Because there's just literally so many that apply. When Yale said they could "fill their entire freshman class 3x over with high achieving Asians (in both grades and ECs)," they weren't joking. In fact, that's probably an understatement. They cannot afford to "waste" many spots on "life-story" ORMs*. The number of mind-bogglingly touching URM stories that apply each year is beyond belief, and gets prioritized highly.

A lack of ECs is just as lethal as "the 25th percentile" grades you reference. If not more.

*I have actually heard this terminology used before in the admissions deans meeting.

But that's just my opinion. I can't speak to other schools, but there is no doubt in my mind that @ZedsDed saved $75 by not applying to my school, where poor white/asian kids with good test scores but lacking ECs get rejected by the pile. These are the people that end up with full rides at every state flagship. Ever wonder where those 4.0/2350+ University of Public Institution kids come from?

 

[sonpat]

humm ok so i should skip the bs/md programs completely and apply for regular undergrads?

 

[ZedsDed]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Adcoms have a job: to bring the most talented yet diverse class to campus. Like it or not, there's a cap to how many whites and asians they can admit. Almost uniformly, these spots will go to high achievers (grades, ECs, sports) and backdoors (legacy, money, etc). Why? Because there's just literally so many that apply. When Yale said they could "fill their entire freshman class 3x over with high achieving Asians (in both grades and ECs)," they weren't joking. In fact, that's probably an understatement. They cannot afford to "waste" many spots on "life-story" ORMs*. The number of mind-bogglingly touching URM stories that apply each year is beyond belief, and gets prioritized highly.

A lack of ECs is just as lethal as "the 25th percentile" grades you reference. If not more.

*I have actually heard this terminology used before in the admissions deans meeting.

But that's just my opinion. I can't speak to other schools, but there is no doubt in my mind that @ZedsDed saved $75 by not applying to my school, where poor white/asian kids with good test scores but lacking ECs get rejected by the pile. These are the people that end up with full rides at every state flagship. Ever wonder where those 4.0/2350+ University of Public Institution kids come from?

I mean, you really didn't miss much since you still went to a very well regarded name without paying for it, iirc. If you'd ended up at Mediocre State it would've been a huge missed opportunity. But yeah that kind of narrative put in your personal statement + strong academic metrics is exactly the kind of thing that makes you stand out in a crowd of similar scoring cookie cutters. The other big ins are 1) legacy 2) under repped minority 3) a national-level recognition or otherwise greatly distinguished performance in your big selling point EC (what md-2020 called "crowning" earlier)

humm ok so i should skip the bs/md programs completely and apply for regular undergrads?

I don't regret the decision I made to go to UCLA. However, I was told most of my life to do what was practical and I do regret not aiming higher. First it was "go to technical school and become an electrician or something." Then it was "go to a state school and get an engineering degree so you can get a job straight out of undergrad." Even after graduation, with my <3.4 GPA in engineering classes, 3.9+ in a postbacc at Cal, and 35+ MCAT I was thinking "oh **** I need to do an SMP so I can get into the lowest of low-tier MD schools!" I'm getting a whiff of that same neuroticism and insecurity from you op. You shouldn't bind yourself to the BS/MD route because you're afraid that you won't make it otherwise. If you are smart enough to get the scores that you have thus far then you are smart enough to do well in your prereqs. Chillax, and enjoy the last few years of freedom you have left

 

[efle]

humm ok so i should skip the bs/md programs completely and apply for regular undergrads?

Or a mix of both, it's never bad to have options. A BS/MD program at somewhere like Northwestern or WashU would really hit both targets since you'd be at great undergrads that can be launchpads to any MD, plus guaranteed option of a Top 10/20 MD. Those are insanely competitive however, with BS/MD at places like you listed being much more accessible. So you really need to ask yourself :

1) if you're 100% certain you want to do medicine, as some of the accelerated tracks make life very tough compared to a normal undergrad experience, and as elite undergrads serve as better launchpads into alternative careers should you change your mind
2) if you would enjoy your time there, or if you would regret not shooting for a college experience where your peers could give you a run for your money / shooting for a more elite set of MD programs

I've seen people make mistakes in both directions for undergrad myself, with some biting off more than they could chew by going to a tough college, and others feeling bored/unchallenged at the unknown school that they took the full ride to.

 

[sonpat]

I don't regret the decision I made to go to UCLA. However, I was told most of my life to do what was practical and I do regret not aiming higher. First it was "go to technical school and become an electrician or something." Then it was "go to a state school and get an engineering degree so you can get a job straight out of undergrad." Even after graduation, with my <3.4 GPA in engineering classes, 3.9+ in a postbacc at Cal, and 35+ MCAT I was thinking "oh **** I need to do an SMP so I can get into the lowest of low-tier MD schools!" I'm getting a whiff of that same neuroticism and insecurity from you op. You shouldn't bind yourself to the BS/MD route because you're afraid that you won't make it otherwise. If you are smart enough to get the scores that you have thus far then you are smart enough to do well in your prereqs. Chillax, and enjoy the last few years of freedom you have left

haha I think you have me pegged down! I'm just so scared that I'll mess up in undergrad and not get into a med school. I see so many smart kids in my school and it really messes with your mindset

 

[efle]

haha I think you have me pegged down! I'm just so scared that I'll mess up in undergrad and not get into a med school. I see so many smart kids in my school and it really messes with your mindset

There is a risk involved in pitting yourself against a crowd of other students that were just as impressive as you in high school. But for some that's sought anyways, since it would be miserable finding your classes easy with few others that can really push you

 

[ZedsDed]

haha I think you have me pegged down! I'm just so scared that I'll mess up in undergrad and not get into a med school. I see so many smart kids in my school and it really messes with your mindset

I think efle said it best. I would avoid the institutions that are notorious for grade deflation. Otherwise, have some confidence in yourself.

 

[Dreamstoo]

Good chance at the Drexel BS/MD program. Apply there.