Medical Do I have a chance at medical school with multiple criminal convictions?

[Goro]

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Good Afternoon Sir or Ma’am,

Bottom Line Up Front: I am currently an active duty servicemember who will be a premed student post military. I anticipate obtaining my undergrad degree from UC San Diego sometime in 2026 and will be applying to med school when I am around 35-36 years old. I will not go into detail in regards to my deepest desires and passions on becoming a physician as I believe that trait should be an obvious attribute to all prospective medical students and I will save that for my PS.

Issue: In 2010 (19 years old) I was convicted of a DUI. In the 2012-13 time frame, I was arrested and eventually convicted of public affray (fight at a restaurant). Rehabilitated and joined the US Navy in 2015 when I was 24 years old. I had one simple goal, to have a fresh start and be as productive as I can. After boot camp I transferred to an advanced specialty school and was the top of my class which ultimately led to an accelerated advancement to E4. I transferred to my Permanent Duty Station, the USS George H. W. Bush, on October of 2015 and was stationed there until September 2019. As per the conditions of being top of my class in my specialty training, I received my accelerated advancement to E4 on February of 2016. On September of 2017 post deployment (26 years old), I was Meritoriously Advanced to E5, an achievement that takes the average Sailor roughly 7-8 years yet it took me roughly 2 years of service. Ten days later, I was celebrating my advancement with my shipmates and was arrested and eventually convicted of another DUI. I faced punitive action both in the military and in the civilian sector and fulfilled all conditions of the respective punishments. As I am sure you know, the Department or Defense does not take substance abuse or alcohol related incidents lightly however, due to my exemplary service and job performance, my Chain of Command strongly advocated for me and through the good Grace of God, I was able to keep my newly obtained rank, retain my active status, and did not have any pay suspended when I faced Non-Judicial Punishment from the Captain. Please note that I am not glorifying my DUI by any means, you have no idea the pain and regret that I feel to this day. It should not have happened, no excuses...period. After the incident, I continued to display superior service, evening joining the Coalition of Sailors Against Destructive Decisions, a volunteer committee, eventually becoming their Vice President, all of which is documented in my official annual military evaluations. In my committee, we performed tasks to include but not limited to mentorship, counseling, sponsorship, volunteering, and even helping other Sailors deal with their own civilian or military transgressions and helping them make smart decisions. I also voluntarily became an Assistant Command Fitness Leader, facilitating command wide Navy Physical Fitness Assessments. Additionally, I lead department level physical training sessions in order to help others maintain Navy physical fitness standards. It does not end there as I then voluntarily became a Navy Career Counselor, guiding and mentoring sailors with all things encompassing professional and personal growth. This is also in addition to superior job performance and leading my own junior Sailors. All of the aforementioned things can be easily verified in my official military evaluations. In late October of 2019 I reported to my new command. Mind you, I am at my new duty station due to being hand picked by my old supervisor, who was also my supervisor when I was stationed on the ship. Needless to say, he was directly involved with my 2nd DUI proceedings yet when he found out I was coming to San Diego, he still diverted my transfer orders to come work for him with and the Commander, Naval Surface Force Pacific Fleet, a 3 Star Admiral. 5 months after reporting, I was on the spot advanced to E-6 by my Assistant Chief of Staff, an O6. This is a feat that normally takes people an average of 14-15 years to achieve, and I was blessed enough to make it in less than 5 years. I hope that I am not boasting, I am simply trying to explain my achievements in the military because of the fact that the average civilian may not have knowledge of military matters or the weight of certain accomplishments. If I do sound narcissistic or egotistic, please know it is not my intention and I will be hiring medical school admissions consultants to aid me with my writing skills, application prep, PS, and any other applicable essays. By the time I apply for medical school around 2026, I will be a 35 year old honorably discharged 7 year veteran and it will be roughly 8 years since my most recent DUI, 14 years since the fight in the restaurant, and 16 years since my first DUI. Aside form having a presumably great package with more volunteer/extra curriculars, great GPA, great MCAT scores, etcetera, what are my chances? Am I a lost cause, should I give up? Lastly, I am sorry for all of the spelling or grammar errors and how this post is all over the place as I am losing sleep over this, you have no idea how much I want this.

Thank you in advance.

I'm still awaiting to hear from several other Adcom SDNers about your situation (at least 4), but of those who have responded to me already, 100% would reject you.

What you'll be getting are the response of some 5-10% of all medical schools in the US, MD and DO, Really Top Schools or solid run of the mill (Wake/Miami class)

 

[MusicDOc124]

Goro has some of the most solid answers here, and it appears he even asked other ADCOMS, all of whom said reject so far.

I'm commenting to state that I feel for you as a veteran myself. Despite the length of time since your last DUI, there is a record of relatively consistent poor judgment/bad decisions, 2 of which for the same offense. And also despite an apparently great service record to date, it will be viewed that not only were there 2 of the same offense, but one was during the period of time in the military, and thus may not be as "reformed" as presented. It will also bring into questions if there is a deeper/underlying problem, and bring into question how often has it occurred and you just didn't get caught.

Yes, there is technically still a chance, but you're in a bad spot with a lot of risk of wasting benefits and time and money on this path. It won't matter how many consultants you pay to guide you or help you write/rewrite anything, nor will it matter your scores as much. Professionalism will be the major concern. The secondary concern is the potential underlying problem that led to 2 DUIs.

 

[southerndoc]

Unfortunately, I think Goro is right. That doesn't mean don't apply at all.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Not that it really matters at this point, I am not a drinker. Contrary to what you may believe, they are two isolated incidences. In fact, between 2013-2017, I did not own nor operate a vehicle. I actually financed a vehicle in August of 2017 and a month later I made the stupid decision of celebrating my advancement with friends and getting behind the wheel of the vehicle after drinking. Regardless, there are still 2 DUIs on my record and I made a mistake. I also understand that a second DUI contradicts growth and progression but I assure that I absolutely have learned from my mistakes. So much so that I literally was leading a committee aimed to help Sailors make smarter decisions and do not repeat my mistakes. I’m still redeeming myself. Not because I want to get into medical school, but because it is the right thing to do and people need help, guidance, and mentorship. So do I. And I will continue to do so. Will that not help me? I mean, I made mistakes and at which point will you or those who would automatically disqualify me decide that I am no longer undeserving of medical school admission? Why not take a chance on me? I think I’m just rambling now as it is a bit frustrating. Thank you for your feedback.

To some extent it doesnt matter if you're a drinker or not. It appears that way when you have multiple DUIs. One pre-military, and one during, which again detracts somewhat from that growth, especially when it occurred after numerous promotions, etc.

Some people get written off of med school for cheating on an exam in undergrad. That doesn't put anyone in danger, but demonstrates poor judgment. The fact that DUIs inherently mean others are at risk not to mention yourself, and that there were multiple, and then yet again another incident just doesn't look good at all.

I hear what you're saying, and I understand your perspective. The weight carried by those infractions are heavy. I'm just being direct with you. That's how it is viewed.

 

[Goro]

Will that not help me? I think I’m just rambling now as it is a bit frustrating. Thank you for your feedback.

Why not take a chance on me?

You're looking at this the wrong way. The question is: Why should a med school take a chance on you, given the superfluity of candidates without two DUIs, and one of them at a mature age of 26 during a career that fosters, if not mandates personal growth and maturity??


I mean, I made mistakes and at which point will you or those who would automatically disqualify me decide that I am no longer undeserving of medical school admission?

The moment you decided to get into the car while drunk the second time.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

The other thing is there is a huge difference between cheating on an exam and getting behind the wheel drunk that could kill an entire family. Oh...twice. I understand that you’re frustrated, but try and look at it from the perspective of the medical school.

Candidate 1: 2 DUIs

Candidates 2-10,000: no DUIs

Your chances are low. It’s a ton of work to get to the point where you are ready to apply. I am anxious to see what Goro’s other contacts say about the situation.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

I certainly am not, especially with the trend of this post. But I did ask for feedback and I’ll accept it graciously I suppose. It just breaks my heart that I’m basically being labeled as a POS and a threat to society from actions committed several years ago. It’s warranted I suppose and I understand the severity of my mistakes, but people change. Am I to be labeled as a threat for the rest of my life? Thank you for your feedback.

I am not saying this is "correct." I understand people make bad choices as I have had my share when I was younger as well. I am just saying from an admissions standpoint, it is much easier to move past applicants with convictions since the pool of applicants is so large. If it was you and five other applicants, well then maybe they would be more lenient.

 

[Goro]

Understood..but the US Navy decided to take a chance on me, an organization where most of your actions directly affect the lives of your peers and even potentially our national security. The return on the Navy’s investment in me yielded high results...I just wish you would see that. Thank you again for your feedback.

Medicine is not the military.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Understood..but the US Navy decided to take a chance on me, an organization where most of your actions directly affect the lives of your peers and even potentially our national security. The return on the Navy’s investment in me yielded high results...I just wish you would see that. Thank you again for your feedback.

The two are very different. Take it from someone who has done both.

Lets say you're going to buy a used car. On one hand, you have one from a dealership with a carfax report which is clean and a clean title. It even comes with a limited warranty. On the other hand, you have the same or similar car, but the carfax says it was in 2 major accidents and needed repairs, and it's a private party selling without a warranty. Price is the same. Which are you buying? You're going to buy the one from the dealership because the dealership is more reliable/reputable than an individual. The one from the dealership also comes with a warranty at no extra cost. The carfax was also clean. Not only will be be potentially more reliable for you due to the warranty and no previous damage, but you'll also be more likely to sell it (at least easier) later, and you'll have a more likely be able to sell it for more compared to the other vehicle.

Medical schools have an average of probably 150 seats each year, and receive an average of around 6,000-7,000 applications per school. Some are larger with 350 seats and 12-15000 apps. Others are newer/smaller with as little as 50 seats and 5000 apps. Either way, med schools have A LOT to sift through, and they're looking at who meet criteria for grades/MCAT, diversity, professionalism, experience, likelihood of succeeding. There are more than enough applicants that cover all of these bases. They're going to pick those with the best chance of success with a little diversity of experiences thrown in.

It's great you served. It's fantastic that you don't drink and state that you won't get another DUI. But med schools are still going to go with the safer bet - those students who meet all of the qualifications, and there are plenty of applicants who meet all of them. Just like most people would pick the car from the dealership, med schools are going to do the same. For them it's a mix of finances (unfortunately), liability, and their ability to recruit students in the future (think match rates, graduation rates, etc).

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Very interesting. The OP had PM'd me initially, and I had a more positive take on the situation but I'm far removed from med school admissions. I recommended he/she post here for better input/advice.