DO in Allopathic Surgical residency

[theDr.]

Hi,
Does anybody know of any good DO surgical residencies in the NY CITY area. If not, how difficult will it be to obtain an allopathic surgical residency in NY CITY. I am looking to attend NYCOM also. Has anybody experienced any problems or issues while applying for allo surgical spots as a DO? I also tried searching this topic but maybe the search tool is not working -- i got nothing back. So if anyboyd knows of a link, please do send it. THANKS.

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[oceandocDO]

Allopathic surgery hasnt gotten more competitive over the last few years after the 80 hour work week came into play. Granted, NY had these rules for awhile but surgeons were often exempt either by their own volition or by exceptions to legislation. None-the-less competition has recently increased after a bit of a lull in the years previous. There are a fair amount of allopathic surgery programs in the area, and your best bet is to rotate at these places and shine. I do know that in the past few years nycom has matched people into Einstein, Maimonides, St. Vincents, Nassau Univ Med Center, Westchester Med Ctr, Brookdale, etc. NYCOM itself has a general surgery programs at Wyckoff Medical Center and Lutheran Medical Center. St. Barnabus also has a D.O. program, as do Peninsula hospital and St. Johns Hospital, but I havent heard great things about the last two.

 

[goooooober]

bump

 

[Yosh]

Why would you want an allopathic surgical residency over an osteo one? It just seems a little odd that you are thinking of applying to a DO school and are already looking to do an MD residency?

 

[theDr.]

I will be looking to obtain a DO surgical residency, but are allo residencies a possible choice as well -- only to improve my odds of landing one. thank you

 

[Shinken]

Recently I read in a book (that is very popular) that MD surgical residencies (general and subspecialties) are closed to DOs. According to the book, this has nothing to do with competition, saying the reason remains unknown (most likely DOs, much like women, aren't liked too much by surgeons). By the way, the book is written by a reputable person (an M.D.). I want to know to what extent is this true. I will be a DO one day and I want to go into surgery (general surgery and then eventually pediatric surgery), most likely at a reputable allopathic program. Is this a dream only? Do I have to be unreasonably spectacular to even be thought of for a GS position at any allopathic institution? Should I just start thinking of other non-surgical careers? please answer me wise ones.

As a DO, of course you can become a surgeon. And yes, you can match into an allopathic surgery program too. Never trust anyone that states absolute statements such as "MD surgical residencies are closed to DOs." That's ridiculous. If the surgical program is in a prestigious allopathic institution, it's going to be hard to match there whether as an MD or DO.

A brief search produced (as always) some interesting results:

http://www.ghs.org/surgresphoto.asp?code=4 (The surgery house staff president is a....DO!)

http://www.fairviewhospital.org/education/surgery/roster.php (This program has quite a healthy ratio of FMG MD's and DO's...some DO's are declared as MD's so read the schools and not the degrees)

http://www.stlukesresidenteducation.org/geng.html (two residents were profiled for this program's web page, one an MD and the other a *gasp* DO! Of course, if you look at the caption below the photo, he's also an MD. Hmmm. The truth is in there somewhere. This hospital is probably affiliated with PCOM since it has some allo and osteo programs, but the surgery program is allopathic)

http://www.med.wright.edu/surg/res/residents.html (this roster is for the 2002-2003 residents...I counted 4 DO's among the group. Did I miss any?)

OK, I'm getting tired of searching through these websites. Beware of absolute statements, even from "reputable" sources.

 

[Adapt]

I will be looking to obtain a DO surgical residency, but are allo residencies a possible choice as well -- only to improve my odds of landing one. thank you

Well I can tell you NYCOM's list appears to be top-notch every year. It seems to me it's one of the best of the DO schools. You have a bunch of anesthesiology, EM, orthopedics, PM&R, and much more.

For general surgery specifically, there were 7 matches. However, I am not sure if they are DO or MD residencies.

---NYCOM 2004 Matchlist---
Anesthesia:
Albert Einstein, NYC (6)
Johns Hopkins- Baltimore, MD
St Lukes Roosevelt/University Hospital of Columbia University - NYC (2)
University of Rochester/ Strong Memorial, Rochester NY
SUNY Brooklyn- NYC (2)
University Hospital- Jackson, MS
Westchester Medical Center (2)
Stony Brook University Hospital, NY
University of Maryland

Internal Medicine:
Beth Israel Medical Center, NYC (8)
Cleveland Clinic, OH (2)
Lennox Hill Hospital- NYC (3)
St Lukes Roosevelt/University Hospital of Columbia University - NYC (4)
Westchester Medical Center (2)
Maimonides Medical Center, NYC (2)
North Shore Univ Hospital/NYU School of Medicine (4)
UMDNJ- Robert Wood Johnson, NJ (4)
New York Hospital and Med Ctr Queens (5)
St. Vincents-NYC
UMDNJ- Newark
Hershey/ Penn State- PA
Kern Medical Center, CA
Cook County, IL
Ochsner Clinic Foundation- LA (2)
Geisinger Health System, PA
Staten Island Univ Hospital
Stony Brook Unic Hosp, NY
Morristown Mem Hospital, NJ
Washington Hospital Center, DC
Winthrop Univ Hospital, NY
SIU SOM- Illinois
Mt Sinai SOM- Elmhurst NY
Newark Beth Israel
Texas A&M- Scott and White
Univ South Florida- Tampa, FL
Roger Williams Hospital, RI
Albany Medical Center, NY
Danbury Hospital, CT
Metro Health Med Ctr- OH
Rochester General Hospital, NY
SUNY Brooklyn


Emergency Medicine:
Beth Israel Medical Center, NYC
Einstein/Jacobi Med Center, NYC
SUNY Upstate (3)
Univ Florida HSC
NY Methodist
Cook County- IL
Stony Brook Univ Hospital, NY
Long Island Jewish Med Center (2)
North Shore Univ Hospital/NYU School of Medicine, NY
Union Hospital, NJ (2)
St. Barnabus, NYC (6)
Lehigh Valley Hospital, PA
New York United Hospital and Medical Center, NY (2)
Christiana Care, DE

EM/IM
Henry Ford Hospital, MI
St. Barnabus Hospital, NYC

Family Practice:
New York Hospital, Columbia Presbyterian, NYC
UMDNJ
Methodist Hospital, Sacramento, CA
Lutheran Medical Center, NYC
Columbia Hospital, FL
Wyckoff Medical Center, NYC
Good Samaritan Medical Center, NY
Stony Brook Univ Hospital, NY
Carilion Health, Roanoke, VA
Conroe Family Prac- TX
Medical College of Georgia

OB/Gyn:
Boston Univ Med Center, MA
St Lukes Roosevelt, NYC/University Hospital of Columbia University (2)
NYU Downtown Hospital, NYC
UMDNJ- Newark, NJ
Metropolitan Hospital Center, NYC (2)
Danbury Hospital, CT
Texas Tech Univ- TX
Good Samartian Medical Center, NY
Virginia Commonwealth Univ System
St Vincents Medical Center, NYC


PM&R:
Columbia/Cornell- New York Hospital, NYC (2)
Mt. Sinai Medical Center, NYC (3)
NYU School of Medicine, NYC (3)
Stony Brook Univ Hospital, NY (2)
Boston Univ Medical Center, MA
Einstein/Montefiore, NYC
Long Island Jewish, NY (2)
SUNY Brooklyn, NYC
Nassau Univ Hospital, NY (2)

Pediatrics:
Tulane Univ SOM- LA
North Shore Univ Hospital/LIJ, Schneider Childrens (7)
Thomas Jefferson Univ Hospital, Dupont Childrens, PA
University of Texas- Houston
Stony Brook Univ Hospital, NY (2)
Jersey Shore Univ Hospital, NJ
Winthrop Univ Hospital (3)
Maimonides Medical Center, NYC
UMDNJ- Newark
Newark Beth Isreal, NJ
INOVA/ Fairfax, VA
SUNY Upstate Medical Center

Psychiatry:
Brown University, RI
Long Island Jewish, NY (4)
UMDNJ- Newark (2)
Barnes Jewish Hospital, MO
North Shore University Hospital, Manhasset, NY
Temple Univ Hospital, PA
Univ of Connecticut, CT

General Surgery
Einstein/Montefiore Med Center, NYC
Hershey/Penn State, PA
Berkshire Med Center, MA
Lutheran Medical Center, NYC
St. Barnabus Medical Center, NYC
Wyckoff Heights Medical Center, NYC
Genesys Health Systems, Grand Blanc MI

Orthopedics
Botsford General Hospital, MI
SouthPointe/Cleveland Clinic, OH
Peninsula Hospital, NYC
Brooke Army Medical Center, TX

Urology
Long Island Jewish/ North Shore Univ Manhasset, NY

Radiology- Diagnostic
Univ of Louisville, SOM, KY
Univ Rochester/Strong Memorial, NY
Nassau Univ Med Center, NY
Univ at Buffalo, NY
St. Barnabus Medical Center

 

[NDESTRUKT]

General Surgery, OB/GYN, and other high malpractice rate type specialties are at a low right now, so I don't think it'd be difficult for anyone to get one at this time. So yes, I'm sure the OP as a DO could find an MD residency quite easily.

 

[goooooober]

"Why would you want an allopathic surgical residency over an osteo one? It just seems a little odd that you are thinking of applying to a DO school and are already looking to do an MD residency?"


bump

 

[Yosh]

I am not "yellling" and I sincerely apologize if I came across that way. I was more asking why people who are saying that they want to apply DO...are already looking for an MD residency.
I have no problems with people doing whatever residencies they want...I just see more warning flags when people ask questions like that...

No harm intended...

Best of luck..and please...ask all the questions you need...we can all learn from others questions.

 

[VentdependenT]

You won't be going to yale or some top tier place. Its just too hard right now unless you have an in. Middle tier should be open in places. You will most likely have to sacrifice a desierable locale for better training. It all depends on how bad you want it. If you pull crap usmle scores and have garbage/run of the mill letters don't expect much.

Do a couple rotations at places you have a shot at, or at least land some FATTIE letters, and see how you like it. Personally I think one has to be insane to go into GS and hence I have a lot of respect for these folks.

 

[DOnut]

Yale???? Whay not, you can do that too. Look at this website. Dr. Gabriel teaches the lectures on bariatric surgery at NYCOM. He's a graduate of NYCOM, completed NYCOM's osteopathic general surgery residency at Wyckoff Heights Medical Center, then went on to do a bariatrics fellowship at Yale. He also stayed on as an attending there for a couple of years. You should hear the guy in class, he's arrogant as hell, but he's DAMN good.

http://www.drnickgabriel.com/