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DO Instate or MD out of state

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by superseif, Nov 29, 2005.

  1. superseif

    superseif Member
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    Hey guys... A hypothetical question...

    Say you wanted to stay in your home state with your family and friends and got accepted in your home state DO schools but not MD schools, say you got in a top 10 MD school out of state and one of the top DO schools in your home state (about 60% of class get residencies in state). Knowing the fact that it would be difficult to return to your home state after medical school and you would probably do residency where you attended medical school. What would you do?

    Also assuming that you are not looking for really competitive residencies, looking into Internal, Family, Peds, etc...

    Thanks
     
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  3. Overeducated

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    If you don't care what letters are after your name, go DO. But if you expect to be able to get into a top 10 MD school I don't see why you'd be worried about getting a residency placement wherever you want anyway.
     
  4. DrBowtie

    DrBowtie Final Countdown
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    Top 10 MD you could get into IM, Peds or FM in your state.
     
  5. VFTW

    VFTW Member
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    MD out of state. You'll adjust to being away from your friends and family and shouldn't turn down an opportunity to train at a good institution.
     
  6. tacrum43

    tacrum43 Behold the mighty echidna
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    This situation seems unlikely. Who is going to get into a top 10 school, and then not get into any of their state schools? I mean, even in California, this wouldn't be the case.
     
  7. Overeducated

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    very true
     
  8. superseif

    superseif Member
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    Well if it is unlikely I wouldn't have posted it, now would I ?....
     
  9. unicorn06

    unicorn06 Senior Member
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    Do you mind saying what your home state is and which top 10 school you got into? I'm as surprised as some of the other posters...
     
  10. superseif

    superseif Member
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    California.... U of Michigan
     
  11. ms1finally

    ms1finally Senior Member
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    I see it as incredibly unlikely that you would be coming from a top 10 MD school anywhere and find it difficult to get a residency in your home state, regardless of what your home state is. If the match list of the MD school does not reflect this, it is probably because not that many people from the school have tried to match into your home state. If you go top 10, Peds, IM, FP will be a virtual certainty and you will be very competitive in other specialties as well.

    With that said, I would do what you want. Some argue that there is a stigma against DOs. I haven't been on the wards enough to agree or disagree with this assessment.
     
  12. Koil Gugliemi

    Koil Gugliemi Koil Gugliemi
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    I think you'd have a better shot at competitive CA residencies coming out of UM than CA DO, but I really don't know. If you are absolutely sure that you want to do primary care, and you really know what that means, then it doesn't matter at all.

    Before people jump all over me. I know that you can do competitive residencies out of osteo schools, it just seems as though it's a little harder. I personally wouldn't want to make a difficult to obtain goal more difficult. Also, I don't really know about CA programs, maybe there's less preference for MD's there.
     
  13. ny skindoc

    ny skindoc Senior Member
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    Going to Michigan will open more opportunities for you all around. It will likely make you more competitive for most CA residencies than a local DO school.Dont be so sure you will want a primary care field in a few years from now,plans change quickly.Having said that.. if your friends and family relationships are critical to you and your happiness then staying close to home makes sense.Its still early in the application season to worry about this choice yet.
     
  14. DropkickMurphy

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    Even though I like osteopaths (and I vastly prefer them when I am seeking out an orthopedic surgeon (I'm into a lot of "high risk" activities) or primary care doc), I would still go to the allopathic school if I were in your shoes. Of course this is approaching things from my perspective, which revolves around my swearing that I will do ANYTHING to avoid primary care. So I am very sentient of the fact that the DO credential does have a slight negative effect on one's chances to match into competitive residencies.
     
  15. bostonguy

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    I would say go with the MD, you wont regret it. There is the stigma for a reason. Back in the old days, docs became DOs because they wanted to practice osteopathy, now everyone applies to them as backups, therefore, it has not unfairly has gained that repuation. The only difference in general is that DOs are given a lower pick for residency traditionally from what I have read. While it technically doesn't matter, I'll be brutally honest here and admit that when it comes to my family someday, if a DO is caring for my family, the thought will cross my mind if he or she could have gotten into one of the top 100 MD schools in the US.

    I recommend to people all the time, do a post-bacc, and get in that way, it may take an extra year, but an MD, is an MD whether it took an extra year or not, so if you can get an MD, I wouldn't even see a choice to make.
     
  16. superseif

    superseif Member
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    Thanks a lot for your replies....

    Another quick question... Say I decided not to go to Mich, would it be worth it for a school ranked in the 40s... Any input is appreciated. You guys are helping me make a very important decision...
     
  17. jackets5

    jackets5 Senior Member
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    Truthfully, go to any MD school over DO. You never know, you may not want primary care and do something like Urology after 4 years of school. MD schools give you a better chance to get a top residency. Top residency makes it easier to get top fellowships= better job opportunities=more money, generally. Personally, i would have no issues with being a DO but i wouldnt pick a DO school over an MD school and i think the same goes for about 90% of people here. nothing derogitory towards DO's as being a DO you have all the same rights and privledges as an MD but the reality is being an MD makes things easier.

     
  18. potato51

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    Without a doubt go for the MD. You won't have trouble getting a CA residency.
     
  19. goinverted

    goinverted goinverted
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    I am not sure why having a family doc who is a DO would make you wonder if he could get into a top 100 MD school. Have you seen the primary care rankings. Hmmm...MSU school of Osteopathic medicine.....ranked 9th, above harvard, dartmouth, UMich, Upenn, Johns Hopkins, Albert Einstein, WashU. I think I would feel better having a DO as a family doc. It is easier to get into very competetive residencies as an MD, but some people want to go into IM, peds, GP, and in that situation going DO is in now way a hindrance, if anything it is better.
     
  20. dr.z

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    California's DO schools are private. Tuition wise I don't think it's cheaper than U of Michigan even for out of state. I would pick U of Michigan.
     
  21. someperson

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    I might end up in the same position. Except for the top 10 part. :laugh:

    Is the possible difference between a DO and MD worth leaving my family? I know two DOs who studied out of state and got residencies in California. But they tell me to go the MD route--rationalizing that 4 years isn't a long time to be exiled away. Also, several doctors have told me that getting a residency in California isn't too hard.

    Right now, I am thinking:
    MD-DO<family
     
  22. superseif

    superseif Member
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    I'm thinking the same exact thing... lol :)

    However, most MDs I talk to are telling me to just go for DO since it will be more comfortable, and I can easily get into California residencies for the fields I want. They also tell me that in case I change my mind, I can still get into difficult residencies as a DO but out of state...

    I know of 2 DOs that are now doing peds in UCSF and GI in UCLA, so getting a good residency is doable as a DO.... It is just a really difficult decision to make, let me know how things turn out for you....
     
  23. tacrum43

    tacrum43 Behold the mighty echidna
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    Wow. So you're sure you won't get into any CA allopathic schools?

    I think I would go to Michigan if I were in your situation. It's not THAT far from California. It's not like it's Israel or something, and it's only for four years. I'm sure that if you do well, or even average, at UMich, you could get a residency back in California.
     
  24. superseif

    superseif Member
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    See tacrum, that's exactly what I'm not sure of...

    Say I go to Michigan and end up becoming in the lower end of the class (which is very likely lol :)), do you think I still have better chances of getting a California residency than if I'm at the top of my DO class (which gets about 60% Cali residencies), I doubt it... Let me know what you think though...

    I also haven't lost hope from all MD schools in California... We'll see how it goes...
     
  25. tacrum43

    tacrum43 Behold the mighty echidna
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    I honestly don't think there will be a huge difference in the competitiveness, even between a top 10 school and a D.O. school because all of these people are smart and hard working to have gotten this far. I think residencies are based more on your clinical years and board scores anyway, and maybe a little on the reputation of the school you went to.

    If I were in your situation, I would definitely hold out for the CA schools until the last second. I mean, even if you get waitlisted, if you can tell them that you would honestly pick their school over UMich, that will probably get you in. Unless it's UCSF or Stanford of course. In any case, it's still early, especially for someone competitive enough to get into UMich during the Fall. May 15th is a long ways away.
     
  26. DropkickMurphy

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    Seeing as many low-end residencies as there are in California, even if you do poorly you should be able to find a slot. Especially in something like family practice which are not all that competitive from a comparative sense.
     
  27. crys20

    crys20 make it happen!
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    i just posted in the pre osteo forum but in short....if you go out of state to get the MD, it is only gonna be 3 years minimum in a place you don't like....because 4th year is flexible, and you can do rotations back home, in NYC, in LA, wherever if you plan em out. 3 years is not so long, then you go back home for residency and life. 3 years is not so long but the degree you have will last much longer, and could possibly affect your career (though doubtful in most cases!).
     
  28. ms1finally

    ms1finally Senior Member
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    There is a fatal flaw in your logic. You are assuming that the reason that UMich doesn't match many people to CA is that they aren't good at doing so, and that the CA residency programs don't "recognize" UMich grads. This is false. It is a TOP 10 school with excellent boards (from the anecdotes I have heard). They aren't going to have any difficulty matching their graduates to California, New York, Boston, Colorado, Columbus, Cleveland, wherever they want to go. However, UMICH is in the mid-west, and due to geography a large portion of their graduates will want to stay there. (Just like a bunch of DO students from CA will want to stay there, and that's why they match a bunch of students there). As a result, the advisors at UMich may have certain connections in the mid-West that help place their students there, but this really only matters if you are a) borderline or b) scrambling. Overall, however, if you have passing board scores and no huge red flags, it should not be difficult to return to CA for a residency in a primary care field.

    But now let's just think about the fact that once you start school you may change your mind and want to do ortho, derm, opthamology. Your assumption that you could match in a more competitive specialty outside of California is also a weak assumption. Specialties that are competitive in CA are also competitive everywhere, and I don't get the feeling that CA is really all that much more so in these already competitive specialties. It's going to be just as hard to match in these fields in CA as it will be anywhere else. I said earlier I don't know much about the stigma regarding DOs, but I have heard anecdotes on SDN that some DO students, in applying for away rotations and residencies, were told that they couldn't do it due to the different letters behind their names. So, under these circumstances you are also going to be better off coming from a DO school.
     
  29. crys20

    crys20 make it happen!
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    yes, assuming board scores are equal you will have a better chance at any residency (except osteo ones lol) as a UMIch grad than in a DO institution, regardless of where you are in your class.
     
  30. Gut Shot

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    Son, if I were the Director for a California residency program in your chosen specialty, and were reviewing your application to my program, and it came to my attention that you passed up a spot at a top allopathic medical school for the reasons you have outlined, I would reject you on that basis alone. At the very least, your gross short-sightedness would need some serious explaining. I don't care if your friends and family are in Cali, I don't care if you fear cold weather, and I don't care if there is an osteopathic school across the street that is waiting for you with open arms... you simply don't discard such an incredible opportunity.

    Now, repeat after me: "Go Wolverines!"
     
  31. BobaGreenTea

    BobaGreenTea Junior Member

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    Go DO school ... i'll get better chance since i'm waitlist in UMich, if I got acceptef to UMich ... then I'll drop my DO acceptance ...
     

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