Do lower tier medical schools churn out crappy docs??

[a hard f.uck]

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i keep hearing this over and over and over and over

is there any truth to this cuz if there is im gonna only apply to schools in the top 10 (maybe top 25, i dont know)

u know what im sayin ?

 

[MWillie]

It's true. I say apply top 5 or not at all. WORKED FOR ME!

 

[TxMed]

or maybe just start your own school. where you go to medical school really means nothing. you (contrary to popular belief) will not get your medical training in medical school. its sounds crazy, i know. your residency will be a much greater determinant of what kind of physician you will be. anyone who thinks that lesser known or lower tier schools provide sub-par education is an idiot or incredibly pompous. it is true that some programs give a student more research opportunities, but it is also true that a medical student is going to get to do many more procedures in some rural BFE hospital than at MGH. i say...go to a school you like and where you will incur the least amount of debt. and...in closing...the single greatest determinant of your skills as a physician is YOU.


tm

 

[DoctaJay]

It depends on what you want. If you are looking for great research opportunities in medical school, you wouldn't go to a lower tier, but if you just want to be a good doctor, it honestly doesn't matter. Doing well in medical school will make you more sucessful than the specific medical school you are at.

 

[MWillie]

If you don't want to end up in a specialty working your butt off for chump change I'd go to a top tier research school. Research is virtually a requirement for competitive residencies (derm, rads, ortho, i.e. the ones everyone wants) and a top research school will provide you with opportunities for quick and easy publication with famous scientists. But hey if you want family practice, podunk state is fine!

 

[OofWillis]

There's something I don't quite like about MWillie...can't quite put my finger on it

 

[Dane07MD]

I've always been told that it is better to be a big fish in a small pond rather than the other way around. Meaning be the top of your class at a lesser known med school, and you stand a better chance at a competitive residency than some schmo from Harvard towards the bottom of his class...

 

[Doctor Bagel]

There's something I don't quite like about MWillie...can't quite put my finger on it

Yeah, me too. 😉

 

[MWillie]

I've always been told that it is better to be a big fish in a small pond rather than the other way around. Meaning be the top of your class at a lesser known med school, and you stand a better chance at a competitive residency than some schmo from Harvard towards the bottom of his class...

Class rankings matter very little in competitive residencies. That shmo whose at the bottom of his class at Harvard but has 3 first author papers in radiology is going to get radiology at a top program even if everything else about him is average.

 

[OofWillis]

I've always been told that it is better to be a big fish in a small pond rather than the other way around. Meaning be the top of your class at a lesser known med school, and you stand a better chance at a competitive residency than some schmo from Harvard towards the bottom of his class...

I agree. I've had a number of opportunities to be involved as an undergraduate at a state school that I never would have at a larger, more prestigous school.

 

[MWillie]

I agree. I've had a number of opportunities to be involved as an undergraduate at a state school that I never would have at a larger, more prestigous school.

We're talking about medical school here, not undergraduate.

 

[ChymeChancellor]

i keep hearing this over and over and over and over

is there any truth to this cuz if there is im gonna only apply to schools in the top 10 (maybe top 25, i dont know)

u know what im sayin ?

There is truth to this. If you go to NYMC, Drexel or any of those dumps you will end up mopping the floor of the hospital... 😴

I love DR. EUGENIC... 😍 😴

 

[Dane07MD]

NYMC and Drexel are dumps??? Maybe I should rethink giving them money for secondaries...oh wait, my 3.3/29 can't do me much better.... *sigh*

 

[ChymeChancellor]

NYMC and Drexel are dumps??? Maybe I should rethink giving them money for secondaries...oh wait, my 3.3/29 can't do me much better.... *sigh*

Easy there.... it was a joke. Those schools along with RFU and Albany seem to have a bad rap here for some reason.

 

[Xypathos]

Class rankings matter very little in competitive residencies. That shmo whose at the bottom of his class at Harvard but has 3 first author papers in radiology is going to get radiology at a top program even if everything else about him is average.

While overall that may be true, programs do look for students that exelled in the program(s) that were available to them and that overcame hurdles. I.E. an average Harvard grad who had three publishings, vs. someone from BFE College who is a nontrad, came from a poverty stricken family, was a former priest (insert anything unique here about the applicant, i.e. former priest).

I would bet money that the latter applicant makes a better doctor --- sure, he might not be a world class researcher but I am willing to bet that a lot of patients could care less if you discovered some tropical disease or worked to discover some new form of protein synthesis but would prefer a doctor that speaks to them like a human being and like they care and if they don't actually care about the patient, they can at least fake it really well.

I, personally, detest pompous doctors that treat their patients like another number and source of money.

btw, as some are aware from earlier posts, I am torn between entering the priesthood and becoming a doctor --- I would like to perform both if possible, but not sure if it is, don't know of any programs that do as such.

Anyway ... I think I know why a lot of people don't like MWillie, he's pompous and feels that he's higher than the rest of the world.

 

[OofWillis]

We're talking about medical school here, not undergraduate.

Who is this guy? Thanks for the update, I had no idea I was in the Pre-MD forum. Sorry, MWillie, I assumed you were intelligent enough to see the parallelisms that exist between medical school and undergraduate work.

 

[ChymeChancellor]

While overall that may be true, programs do look for students that exelled in the program(s) that were available to them and that overcame hurdles. I.E. an average Harvard grad who had three publishings, vs. someone from BFE College who is a nontrad, came from a poverty stricken family, was a former priest (insert anything unique here about the applicant, i.e. former priest).

I would bet money that the latter applicant makes a better doctor --- sure, he might not be a world class researcher but I am willing to bet that a lot of patients could care less if you discovered some tropical disease or worked to discover some new form of protein synthesis but would prefer a doctor that speaks to them like a human being and like they care and if they don't actually care about the patient, they can at least fake it really well.

I, personally, detest pompous doctors that treat their patients like another number and source of money.

btw, as some are aware from earlier posts, I am torn between entering the priesthood and becoming a doctor --- I would like to perform both if possible, but not sure if it is, don't know of any programs that do as such.

Anyway ... I think I know why a lot of people don't like MWillie, he's pompous and feels that he's higher than the rest of the world.

I like MWillie.... I can relate well to him.... 😴

 

[Xypathos]

We're talking about medical school here, not undergraduate.

Same stands in Medical school --- small state schools are traditionally willing to let their students get away with things that more public and larger schools can't or won't for fear of public backlash, media, liability, etc.

 

[Xypathos]

I like MWillie.... I can relate well to him.... 😴

You and your 4.0!! *shakes fist*

 

[Dane07MD]

Hmmm, Albany gets a bad rep too!?! Damn...looks like i'm going to be churned out a "crappy doc" in the years to come...i dont know what RFU is, but it's probably somewhere I have applied to also...

 

[Dane07MD]

oh wait, that must be Rosalind Franklin.....yep...there too.

 

[Xypathos]

Hmmm, Albany gets a bad rep too!?! Damn...looks like i'm going to be churned out a "crappy doc" in the years to come...i dont know what RFU is, but it's probably somewhere I have applied to also...

Breath --- reputations mean ****, you are what you make of yourself.

 

[MWillie]

While overall that may be true, programs do look for students that exelled in the program(s) that were available to them and that overcame hurdles. I.E. an average Harvard grad who had three publishings, vs. someone from BFE College who is a nontrad, came from a poverty stricken family, was a former priest (insert anything unique here about the applicant, i.e. former priest).

You think Hopkins wants to train the most heart warming radiologists in the world? No.

Pretend you're a residency director, what is your goal?

Residency is basically a farm for you to recruit the future physician scientist faculty thare are going to make the break throughs and attract the research funding to make your Radiology department the most famous in the world. Some poor nontrad should be commended for his overcoming obstacles, but it is irrelevant. What matters most is the above, regardless of the doctor's background.

 

[honker]

The arrogance and stupidity of this thread is mind-boggling. I went to a "lower tier" med school, and I am doing just fine as an internal medicine subspecialist who practices high quality medicine in an extremely busy clinic. The only advantage to a "top med school" is if you desire an academic career. It is easier to succeed if you go to a research heavy school. Some of you people are complete idiots who don't belong in medicine.

 

[MWillie]

I must add that the above does not apply to specialties like internal med, pmr, family practice, peds, etc.... so disregard my advice if you are interested in these.

If you want rads, rad onc, derm, ENT, eye, ortho, etc... my advice stands.

 

[Dane07MD]

I think MWillie is right to a certain degree, but a stellar student at a smaller college definitely looks good too....

bottom line here is that regardless of what school, you're getting an MD. a crappy doctor is not up to the residency, but up to the individuals drive to BECOME a good doctor. s omeone already said it, its up to you to be a good doc.

 

[Xypathos]

You think Hopkins wants to train the most heart warming radiologists in the world? No.

Pretend you're a residency director, what is your goal?

Residency is basically a farm for you to recruit the future physician scientist faculty thare are going to make the break throughs and attract the research funding to make your Radiology department the most famous in the world. Some poor nontrad should be commended for his overcoming obstacles, but it is irrelevant. What matters most is the above, regardless of the doctor's background.

Once again you're focusing exclusive on the Top 25 programs --- however there are about 120 programs or so that don't fall into this and thus have different goals.

So, once again, stop raising yourself above others.

 

[MWillie]

The arrogance and stupidity of this thread is mind-boggling. I went to a "lower tier" med school, and I am doing just fine as an internal medicine subspecialist who practices high quality medicine in an extremely busy clinic. The only advantage to a "top med school" is if you desire an academic career. It is easier to succeed if you go to a research heavy school. Some of you people are complete idiots who don't belong in medicine.

I do believe if you come out of a highly ranked residency program your chances in private practice are better as well as your academic career.

 

[Xypathos]

The arrogance and stupidity of this thread is mind-boggling. I went to a "lower tier" med school, and I am doing just fine as an internal medicine subspecialist who practices high quality medicine in an extremely busy clinic. The only advantage to a "top med school" is if you desire an academic career. It is easier to succeed if you go to a research heavy school. Some of you people are complete idiots who don't belong in medicine.

Nor do those that pass judgement. You're the first in line of so-called "idiots" that don't belong in medicine.

 

[MWillie]

Once again you're focusing exclusive on the Top 25 programs --- however there are about 120 programs or so that don't fall into this and thus have different goals.

So, once again, stop raising yourself above others.

Right i'm talking to those in the forum that are interested in the best, or the most competitive, as I am. If you are not, disregard my advice.

 

[Dane07MD]

honker - i think some of the stupidity is intentional ignorance.

i am being facetious when i say i wont apply to a medical school because of a reputation it has on a internet message board.

as for "tiers" the only thing that really determines these so called categories is the annual U.S. News graduate school report...and if you're basing your decisions for medical school off that, you may want to reconsider applying all together.

 

[Mac11]

*washes MWillie*

 

[solitude]

*washes MWillie*

I think it's important to hear his point of view. There are plenty of people on SDN who are interested in the most competitive specialties, academic positions, etc.

 

[MWillie]

*washes MWillie*

My first post is a joke reply to an obvious troll post, the rest however I stand by.

 

[honker]

honker - i think some of the stupidity is intentional ignorance.

i am being facetious when i say i wont apply to a medical school because of a reputation it has on a internet message board.

as for "tiers" the only thing that really determines these so called categories is the annual U.S. News graduate school report...and if you're basing your decisions for medical school off that, you may want to reconsider applying all together.

I am referring to people who believe that lower tier med schools produce inferior physicians. The academic credentials of students who go to the research oriented (re: top tier schools) are better; however, the ability to become a competent physician is not determined by those criteria. I see little correlation between school and competency.
Note to Xypathos: Too late. You'd better get used to being judged by others

 

[Mac11]

My first post is a joke reply to an obvious troll post, the rest however I stand by.

i still dont understand why you wrote "wash me" under your name.

...then again maybe i dont want to know...

 

[MWillie]

i still dont understand why you wrote "wash me" under your name.

...then again maybe i dont want to know...

Haha, you don't want to know.

 

[Mac11]

Haha, you don't want to know.

😳 😴

 

[tok]

Haha, you don't want to know.

I think I get it...MWillie goes to Wash U in St. Louis, right????😕 😕 😕

 

[Mr. Tee]

I think I get it...MWillie goes to Wash U in St. Louis, right????😕 😕 😕

you win.

 

[solitude]

I am referring to people who believe that lower tier med schools produce inferior physicians. The academic credentials of students who go to the research oriented (re: top tier schools) are better; however, the ability to become a competent physician is not determined by those criteria. I see little correlation between school and competency.
Note to Xypathos: Too late. You'd better get used to being judged by others

These students usually end up being the academic physicians. Basically how the system works in the U.S. is that if a private practitioner doesn't know what to do with a patient, they send the patient to the academic physician. Thus, the academic physician is generally more competent with regards to that particular specialty than the private practitioner. This is usually because the academic has received better training, and has completed a fellowship after residency (relatively rare for those in private practice).

 

[deleted109597]

These students usually end up being the academic physicians. Basically how the system works in the U.S. is that if a private practitioner doesn't know what to do with a patient, they send the patient to the academic physician. Thus, the academic physician is generally more competent with regards to that particular specialty than the private practitioner. This is usually because the academic has received better training, and has completed a fellowship after residency (relatively rare for those in private practice).

Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach.


Actually, the reason they send them to the academic faculty is because the academics have more ability to look up strange and weird diseases. For the most part, an average academian and an average private physician are pretty equal (except the private guy makes more). There are outliers in both fields, of course, having met rocket scientist private guys and academians who I wouldn't trust with my dog.

(Note, I am going into a academic field, but because I like to teach, not because I feel that I am "smarter" than those in the private field).

 

[45408]

I must add that the above does not apply to specialties like internal med, pmr, family practice, peds, etc.... so disregard my advice if you are interested in these.

If you want rads, rad onc, derm, ENT, eye, ortho, etc... my advice stands.

Just kill your boards. One of my friends is in a rads residency, and he *gasp* didn't go to a school on the top 50 of USN&WR, but he got a 250 on Step 1. Every medical school has well-published researchers working there. They all have millions, it's just that some (HMS) has a billion.

 

[MWillie]

Just kill your boards. One of my friends is in a rads residency, and he *gasp* didn't go to a school on the top 50 of USN&WR, but he got a 250 on Step 1. Every medical school has well-published researchers working there. They all have millions, it's just that some (HMS) has a billion.

I'm pretty sure a 250, like a 38 on the MCAT, by itself doesn't get you into a great residency. Complete package deal is best, just like for med school.

 

[solitude]

For the most part, an average academian and an average private physician are pretty equal (except the private guy makes more).

This is downright false. Perhaps they were equal at one point, but the academic is almost always better trained and better at what he/she does. Anybody can do private practice if you pass the boards and get licensed...do you have any idea how hard it is to be a professor at a good medical school?

 

[Callogician]

There is truth to this. If you go to NYMC, Drexel or any of those dumps you will end up mopping the floor of the hospital... 😴

This statement is is incredibly offensive! I am shocked by your ignorance and gall!

I'LL SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL!

We only get to shadow the janitors. We have to wait until residency to mop the floors.

 

[DougFlutie]

Nor do those that pass judgement. You're the first in line of so-called "idiots" that don't belong in medicine.

You must be some sort of troll. You haven't even broken 30 on the MCAT nor have you applied to medical schools, and you have the audacity to tell a practicing physician that he's an idiot and doesn't belong in medicine. Infantile.

 

[R.P. McMurphy]

Easy there.... it was a joke. Those schools along with RFU and Albany seem to have a bad rap here for some reason.

I've never heard of those schools being called "dumps" by anyone but you 🙄

 

[dr.z]

i keep hearing this over and over and over and over

is there any truth to this cuz if there is im gonna only apply to schools in the top 10 (maybe top 25, i dont know)

u know what im sayin ?

 

[SoCuteMD]

You think Hopkins wants to train the most heart warming radiologists in the world? No.

Pretend you're a residency director, what is your goal?

Residency is basically a farm for you to recruit the future physician scientist faculty thare are going to make the break throughs and attract the research funding to make your Radiology department the most famous in the world. Some poor nontrad should be commended for his overcoming obstacles, but it is irrelevant. What matters most is the above, regardless of the doctor's background.

Actually, conventional wisdom says that residency programs rarely hire their own on as faculty - ESPECIALLY not immediately after graduation when people who remember the new faculty member as a resident are still around.

Nice try though 🙂.