DO, MD Dual degree??

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chokiepie

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Has anyone heard about the DO, MD dual degree program? I have been admitted to both a DO school and in Ross and I have to decide in the next 1 week. I read a lot of post about whether DO is better or a FMG MD. Now, I heard that there is a school in Montreal that transfers all your credits from a US DO school and then you give the USMLE and they give you a DO MD dual degree!! If I study from Ross, I'm still a foreign graduate just like I'll be if I get an MD from this school in Montreal. Then is it advisable to go to the US DO school, or is it better to go to Ross, or is it better to go to the US DO school and transfer my credits to MOntreal and get a dual degree? Thanks in advance. I'm really confused.
 
Go to the US (DO) medical school. A DO and MD are legally completely equivalent with only minimal differences in cirriculum, and in the end no one cares where you went to school, they care where you did your residency. A US degree and a Foreign degree are not equivalent legally, in terms of graduation rates, or in terms of residency match rates. Don´t screw around with the islands if you don´t have to.
 
Perrotfish said:
Go to the US (DO) medical school. A DO and MD are legally completely equivalent with only minimal differences in cirriculum, and in the end no one cares where you went to school, they care where you did your residency. A US degree and a Foreign degree are not equivalent legally, in terms of graduation rates, or in terms of residency match rates. Don´t screw around with the islands if you don´t have to.
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Yeah, as much as you'd probably enjoy the weather at Ross, you'll be significantly better off at the US DO school. What would be the advantage of a dual degree? Personally, I think med school is going to long and expensive enough as it is. Why make it unnecessarily worse?
 
chokiepie said:
Has anyone heard about the DO, MD dual degree program? I have been admitted to both a DO school and in Ross and I have to decide in the next 1 week. I read a lot of post about whether DO is better or a FMG MD. Now, I heard that there is a school in Montreal that transfers all your credits from a US DO school and then you give the USMLE and they give you a DO MD dual degree!! If I study from Ross, I'm still a foreign graduate just like I'll be if I get an MD from this school in Montreal. Then is it advisable to go to the US DO school, or is it better to go to Ross, or is it better to go to the US DO school and transfer my credits to MOntreal and get a dual degree? Thanks in advance. I'm really confused.
Click to expand...

Why would you ever want both? Just go to the US DO school.
 
Its just because of the stigma thats associated with DO. I think that if I go to Ross then I will be a foreign graduate anyways, then why not study in US and then transfer my credits to montreal and get a dual degree.
 
I would advocate for DO rather than Ross. MD and DO are essentially the same thing and staying in the US will increase your chances for a good residency.
 
chokiepie said:
Its just because of the stigma thats associated with DO. I think that if I go to Ross then I will be a foreign graduate anyways, then why not study in US and then transfer my credits to montreal and get a dual degree.
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This is like getting a BS and a BA in the same major. Makes no sense at all. If you don't want the DO stigma then go to Ross and deal with the Caribbean stigma.
 
I don't know what this canadian school is that you are talking about. Canadian schools are notoriously difficult to get into, even as a Canadian, let alone as an American. Just go to the DO school. Ignore the stigma talk, the only issues are that there are some extra hurdles you have to jump. If you don't think that the DO is better than Ross, just look at this year's stats for the residency match and notice how many of the DO students matched into an allopathic residency, and how few carribean MDs matched.
 
1) A MD/DO program would never happen

2) Why would it happen? There's absolutely no point in it.
 
Lshapley said:
If you don't think that the DO is better than Ross, just look at this year's stats for the residency match and notice how many of the DO students matched into an allopathic residency, and how few carribean MDs matched.
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Where do I look for it? Can you give me the website. Thanks a lot.
 
chokiepie said:
Its just because of the stigma thats associated with DO. I think that if I go to Ross then I will be a foreign graduate anyways, then why not study in US and then transfer my credits to montreal and get a dual degree.
Click to expand...

You are going to be a caribbean grad no matter how you doctor it up. That is the greater stigma of the two -- caribbean grads have a harder time getting the more desirable residencies. Nobody is going to care that you have both degrees, because the letters are not the focus.
 
Law2Doc said:
You are going to be a caribbean grad no matter how you doctor it up. That is the greater stigma of the two -- caribbean grads have a harder time getting the more desirable residencies. Nobody is going to care that you have both degrees, because the letters are not the focus.
Click to expand...

honestly, I'd be a whole lot more suspicious of someone who did something unheard of/fishy like DO/MD and started out carribean than someone with a DO. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd be willing to bet that the people who hire doctors (and I know a few pretty well) feel the same way.
 
chokiepie said:
Its just because of the stigma thats associated with DO. I think that if I go to Ross then I will be a foreign graduate anyways, then why not study in US and then transfer my credits to montreal and get a dual degree.
Click to expand...

deadhorsebeat_4.gif
 
Get a PhD and win the Nobel prize.

If you want to be a physician and practice in North America, choose the DO over the suntan in the caribe.

If you believe the DO to MD advertisement, I also may have some swamp land in florida to sell you.
 
cleothecat said:
If you believe the DO to MD advertisement, I also may have some swamp land in florida to sell you.
Click to expand...

Shhh, they're called unsettled lands in the beautiful south! Dirt cheap!


If you REALLY want to get it all, get a masters, PhD, MD, DO, DDS, OD, PharmD etc, etc ,etc and THEN you'll show them. Nothing like a certified...pharmoptometistor (or pharmoptomedentoctor if you prefer)
 
There's actually a school in Zimbabwe that will accept all your credits for an AS and apply it to an MD. I'm doing this and will finish six years earlier than others my age.
 
The only real solution to your problem is to attend a US MD school. There is this great new school in California called Stewart University. It is "the #1 leader in US medical education." Please seriously consider it.
 
st2205 said:
There's actually a school in Zimbabwe that will accept all your credits for an AS and apply it to an MD. I'm doing this and will finish six years earlier than others my age.
Click to expand...


I'm just going to steal Rx pads from the doctors office and make my own white lab coat, buy a stethoscope + pager and walk around hospitals pretending to be a doctor. Who are you going to question? Look at my coat, it says SMITH, MD. Now take this diphenhydramine for your drowsiness.
Yes you can drive while taking this medication
No, it does not cause drowsiness.
You want to take this with at least 3 to 4 shots of 140 proof vodka to get the desired results.

Oh, and here's some zolpidem in case you're still tired. I would definitely operate heavy machinery while using this.

👍
 
chokiepie said:
Its just because of the stigma thats associated with DO. I think that if I go to Ross then I will be a foreign graduate anyways, then why not study in US and then transfer my credits to montreal and get a dual degree.
Click to expand...

And there is no stigma associated with transferring credits to a fake school to get an MD? I have never heard of an accredited Canadian medical school that does that.
 
potato51 said:
Forty years from now, which do you think will matter more? Having the DO after your name or the MD? By then, it will matter zilch what MD school you went to, but the 'DO' will be with you your entire career.

Yes, both are fine degrees, but personally I'd go for MD.
Click to expand...

This is only true if the OP is actually able to get a decent residency in the US with the MD from the Carribean school....

OP: Seriously, go DO.
 
chokiepie said:
Its just because of the stigma thats associated with DO. I think that if I go to Ross then I will be a foreign graduate anyways, then why not study in US and then transfer my credits to montreal and get a dual degree.
Click to expand...

Come here my child.........SMACK!

Now go on....
 
Forty years from now, which do you think will matter more? Having the DO after your name or the MD? By then, it will matter zilch what MD school you went to, but the 'DO' will be with you your entire career.
Click to expand...

This might be true in terms of explaining it to your patients, whose opinions don´t count for anything in terms of your career. However in terms of negotiating your salary, what´s going to matter is where you did your residency/fellowship (that´s the name that´s really going to follow you for the rest of your career), and for that you´re statistically vastly better off going DO.

Assuming you graduate at all, or get a residency at all once you graduate. Ross has lots of medical students that never even cross the finish line for board certification.
 
UnderdogMD said:
The only real solution to your problem is to attend a US MD school. There is this great new school in California called Stewart University. It is "the #1 leader in US medical education." Please seriously consider it.
Click to expand...
👍 I second that
 
Perrotfish said:
A DO and MD are legally completely equivalent with only minimal differences in curriculum
Click to expand...
Yes, but then the OP will have to chug the OMM kool-aid.
 
chokiepie said:
Has anyone heard about the DO, MD dual degree program? I have been admitted to both a DO school and in Ross and I have to decide in the next 1 week. I read a lot of post about whether DO is better or a FMG MD. Now, I heard that there is a school in Montreal that transfers all your credits from a US DO school and then you give the USMLE and they give you a DO MD dual degree!! If I study from Ross, I'm still a foreign graduate just like I'll be if I get an MD from this school in Montreal. Then is it advisable to go to the US DO school, or is it better to go to Ross, or is it better to go to the US DO school and transfer my credits to MOntreal and get a dual degree? Thanks in advance. I'm really confused.
Click to expand...

I've lived in Montreal for the past long while. I believe you are mistaken. There is no such school.
 
chokiepie said:
Has anyone heard about the DO, MD dual degree program? I have been admitted to both a DO school and in Ross and I have to decide in the next 1 week. I read a lot of post about whether DO is better or a FMG MD. Now, I heard that there is a school in Montreal that transfers all your credits from a US DO school and then you give the USMLE and they give you a DO MD dual degree!! If I study from Ross, I'm still a foreign graduate just like I'll be if I get an MD from this school in Montreal. Then is it advisable to go to the US DO school, or is it better to go to Ross, or is it better to go to the US DO school and transfer my credits to MOntreal and get a dual degree? Thanks in advance. I'm really confused.
Click to expand...

What the crap are you talking about? DO can't even do anything besides OMM here. They have no medical rights whatsoever and it's far from being recognized. Heck, physical therapist are ranked ten fold higher by both the health care system and the other health specialist, especially the MDs. By the way there's only two med school in Montreal and they're both highly competitive and ranked amongst the best in north america in case you didn't know.

If anything, the DO school in montreal will give you a ND diploma which means Naturopathy Doctor, and it's total bull****. In the province of Quebec, osteopathy school are really close to naturopathy and these kind of things. Heck, both programs are given in the same schools!

BTW, I have nothing against osteopathy, it's just really different here...
 
Kaustikos said:
I'm just going to steal Rx pads from the doctors office and make my own white lab coat, buy a stethoscope + pager and walk around hospitals pretending to be a doctor. Who are you going to question? Look at my coat, it says SMITH, MD. Now take this diphenhydramine for your drowsiness.
Yes you can drive while taking this medication
No, it does not cause drowsiness.
You want to take this with at least 3 to 4 shots of 140 proof vodka to get the desired results.

Oh, and here's some zolpidem in case you're still tired. I would definitely operate heavy machinery while using this.

👍
Click to expand...

God, I'm slow. I was reading this, going, "nooo, you got that backwards. Noo, got that backwards, too. No, don't do that. No, you meant modafinil. No, you... OHHHH. F*ck me."

But yeah, OP: Stay within the country. The residency director at a nearby EM residency program is a DO. Fantastic guy, as well. The stigma is only as much a stigma as it is to you since the people that count know better than to think it a stigma at all.

That said, I will not be applying to DO programs solely because that's my thing, and I just don't want to go to a DO program. But I in no way look down on those fine boys & squirrels.

Unrelated, but I've often wondered what the record is for number of degrees, undergraduate or graduate+, held by one person in a lifetime.
 
boulux said:
What the crap are you talking about? DO can't even do anything besides OMM here. They have no medical rights whatsoever and it's far from being recognized. Heck, physical therapist are ranked ten fold higher by both the health care system and the other health specialist, especially the MDs. By the way there's only two med school in Montreal and they're both highly competitive and ranked amongst the best in north america in case you didn't know.

If anything, the DO school in montreal will give you a ND diploma which means Naturopathy Doctor, and it's total bull****. In the province of Quebec, osteopathy school are really close to naturopathy and these kind of things. Heck, both programs are given in the same schools!

BTW, I have nothing against osteopathy, it's just really different here...
Click to expand...


I was just going to say is DO the same in Canada as it is in the US, but you answered my question... That is the only thing that still gives me pause about going DO is that practicing abroad may be more difficult, but I think the only places I want to practice abroad are 3rd world countries and they don't care too much. It's only the countries that have a DO degree which is closer to naturopathy/ chiropracty where there's a problem practicing.
 
That's like graduating from high school twice. No one cares about the second time. Stick with one.
 
A DO makes you a much more qualified doctor than a Caribbean MD, IMO. People on here in the pre-allo forum are ridiculously anti-DO... wake up people, we're all going to be doctors, working together, in the same residencies, same salaries, same opportunities... And don't do both. Why on earth would you do both??
 
chokiepie said:
Has anyone heard about the DO, MD dual degree program? I have been admitted to both a DO school and in Ross and I have to decide in the next 1 week. I read a lot of post about whether DO is better or a FMG MD. Now, I heard that there is a school in Montreal that transfers all your credits from a US DO school and then you give the USMLE and they give you a DO MD dual degree!! If I study from Ross, I'm still a foreign graduate just like I'll be if I get an MD from this school in Montreal. Then is it advisable to go to the US DO school, or is it better to go to Ross, or is it better to go to the US DO school and transfer my credits to MOntreal and get a dual degree? Thanks in advance. I'm really confused.
Click to expand...

There's really no difference in the degrees, so there would be no point in getting both. The only thing I've heard that even comes close is that if you go to a DO school, you can take both the COMLEX and USMLE for board licensure. The only reason people do that is because a very small amount of allopathic residencies don't accept COMLEX scores (and they believe they are at a disadvantage for all the rest of the allopathic residencies that do). But this is only a very small amount of allo residencies and it would be a waste of time to take both because you won't be at a disadvantage for matching into a allo residency as a DO with COMLEX scores.
 
SketchLazy said:
The only reason people do that is because a very small amount of allopathic residencies don't accept COMLEX scores (and they believe they are at a disadvantage for all the rest of the allopathic residencies that do). But this is only a very small amount of allo residencies and it would be a waste of time to take both because you won't be at a disadvantage for matching into a allo residency as a DO with COMLEX scores.
Click to expand...

Seriously? I was under the impression that all or nearly all the allo residencies expected a USMLE score, which is why so many folks coming from DO are taking it these days. How the heck can a residency compare an MD vs DO applicant if they haven't even taken the same test?
 
If the issue of having an MD is that important to you, but you don't want to go Carib, then take a few more years to study and work on your CV/grades/MCAT/etc.. and re-apply to a US allopathic school. Otherwise, you need to just bite the bullet and make a decision based on what you really want from your training and which of your current options best provides you with that opportunity.
 
potato51 said:
Forty years from now, which do you think will matter more? Having the DO after your name or the MD? By then, it will matter zilch what MD school you went to, but the 'DO' will be with you your entire career.

Yes, both are fine degrees, but personally I'd go for the MD.
Click to expand...


This is only true assuming you actually have graduated from medical school and are working as a physician. This is far from a sure thing if you go the carribean route. Far few students make it at carribean med schools than DO schools. 40 years from now there's no question that I would take a DO after my name over the relief of finally having paid of the $250,000 I owe to a carribean med school even though I've never practiced medicine. You're getting all of this advice to go to the DO school on the pre-allo forum, which lets face it tends to be rather anti-DO. Do yourself a favor and take it.
 
UnderdogMD said:
Generalizations...👎
Click to expand...

Many people who enter osteopathic medicine do so by CHOICE- because they prefer the philosophy and want OMM training.

I'd be willing to bet that very few people enter Caribbean MD schools except as a last resort "can't get in anywhere else" kind of thing. I mean, if you got into Ross and a US state med school, what would you choose? I'd go with the US one no question. Thus, there is a stigma attached to the Caribbean schools that is not necessarily there on DOs.

I can't believe people in this forum are so set against DOs.
 
DrMom said:
This is like getting a BS and a BA in the same major. Makes no sense at all. If you don't want the DO stigma then go to Ross and deal with the Caribbean stigma.
Click to expand...

I certainly understand your point, but I never liked this analogy. At my school, a BS and a BA were very different. BS's had to take more courses in the major. BS's also had to do research as a senior, whereas BA's did not. There were significant differences between the two. Using a BS-BA analogy with someone who has little understanding of the DO degree may confuse them, and actually lead them to believe there are greater differences between a DO and MD than there actually are.

But the point is, OP, that it would be a complete waste of your time to get both degrees and as pointed out it wouldn't make any sense at all. As far as training goes, MD and DO are identical (with the exception that some OMM is taught in osteopathic school). Practice rights are the exact same. What is the point at having both?

Law2Doc said:
You are going to be a caribbean grad no matter how you doctor it up. That is the greater stigma of the two -- caribbean grads have a harder time getting the more desirable residencies. Nobody is going to care that you have both degrees, because the letters are not the focus.
Click to expand...

I think this sums up my position pretty well. You will have a much harder time matching into a US residency as a foreign grad than a US DO. And this makes a FAR greater difference in the long run than what letters you have. You will be kicking yourself come match day if you go carrib.
 
MD = DO, for all intents and purposes.

I've worked with DOs in various fields - IM, FP, Peds, Psych, OB/GYN, Path, Anesthesia, G Surg. No difference.
 
apricotattack said:
Many people who enter osteopathic medicine do so by CHOICE- because they prefer the philosophy and want OMM training.

I'd be willing to bet that very few people enter Caribbean MD schools except as a last resort "can't get in anywhere else" kind of thing. I mean, if you got into Ross and a US state med school, what would you choose? I'd go with the US one no question. Thus, there is a stigma attached to the Caribbean schools that is not necessarily there on DOs.

I can't believe people in this forum are so set against DOs.
Click to expand...

I am not against DOs, but this definitely works both ways. Caribbean med schools have their own stigma by those who know anything about medical school admissions as far as their lower admissions statistics. DO programs have a stigma simply because so many people say, "DO? Doctor? Wasn't good enough for an MD, eh?!?." Based on numbers, each stereotype has a sliver of truth to it, as stereotypes all too often do.

Not to mention the hordes of people I've heard/seen say, "Yeah, if I get into a DO school, then so be it! I'll still be a doctor" or some variant thereof.

Fortunately, most of us here on SDN know better than to knee-jerk into thinking either line of thought on general terms.

Rooter76 said:
I certainly understand your point, but I never liked this analogy. At my school, a BS and a BA were very different. BS's had to take more courses in the major. BS's also had to do research as a senior, whereas BA's did not. There were significant differences between the two. Using a BS-BA analogy with someone who has little understanding of the DO degree may confuse them, and actually lead them to believe there are greater differences between a DO and MD than there actually are.
Click to expand...

Wow, definitely not at my school. I think that's the first time that my BA-in-a-month-and-a-half almost makes me feel like a lil' bit of a slacker.
 
Rooter76 said:
I certainly understand your point, but I never liked this analogy. At my school, a BS and a BA were very different. BS's had to take more courses in the major. BS's also had to do research as a senior, whereas BA's did not. There were significant differences between the two. Using a BS-BA analogy with someone who has little understanding of the DO degree may confuse them, and actually lead them to believe there are greater differences between a DO and MD than there actually are.

But the point is, OP, that it would be a complete waste of your time to get both degrees and as pointed out it wouldn't make any sense at all. As far as training goes, MD and DO are identical (with the exception that some OMM is taught in osteopathic school). Practice rights are the exact same. What is the point at having both?



I think this sums up my position pretty well. You will have a much harder time matching into a US residency as a foreign grad than a US DO. And this makes a FAR greater difference in the long run than what letters you have. You will be kicking yourself come match day if you go carrib.
Click to expand...

I think my analogy is better. It's like trying to graduate from high school twice. It really is better to just move on.
 
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