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Do MDs really hate DOs?

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by crescent, Jul 24, 2000.

  1. crescent

    crescent New Member

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    I have several questions...

    1. Do MDs really hate DOs?

    2. I heard that DOs really do not do research or put out research papers, is this true? I have a nitch for research like for cancer, if I do decide to go this way would I be able to do research?

    3. Can I apply for dental school and osteo. school at the same time?

    4. From reading other posts, I really don't think that I want to work really hard in DO school and still be look down upon by MDs or be considered as a second class doctor. I figure DOs work just as hard to get their degree if I am not mistaken. Many of my friends say that if they had a choice between a MD or DO, they would without a doubt pick a MD. Not only that, my parents feel the same way, so what I do. I do not want to work really hard for somethng and think that its not good enough. Can someone please help me. I am a senior in college and is getting ready to make the most important decision of my life so please be honest. Thank you! ^_^


     
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  3. DOman

    DOman Member
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    1 MD's dont hate DO's.
    2 DO's are "second-class" doctor.
    3 DO's are not much research oriented
    Other than that everything is the same. I think you should stop listening to the ideas your friend give, and explorre the field on your own. Have you done any volunteer hours? Have you ever asked MD(s) about their opinions? I think the anwswer to this question is best left if you find it yourself. However, when i was in the same situation as you, i actually inquired. but to answer your question, majority wise they dont differentiate as looking down at DO's. I would think that the "old-school" docs maybe like your parents age would. But not anymore.
     
  4. DOman

    DOman Member
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    MAJOR CORRECTION TO MY POST
    DO"S ARE NOT SECOND CLASS DOCS
    I REPEAT...ARE NOT.
    sorry for the HUGE error.
     
  5. MSUCOM2003

    MSUCOM2003 Member
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    DO's do research. The deputy director of the cancer center at a major Big Ten school is a DO. He publishes (he has to, or he wouldn't be in his position). DO's proportionately do less research than MD's because 1. Research costs lotsa money. Most public DO schools (public universities tend to do the most research as a part of their mission)are working to build research programs, but this takes time. 2. MD's, by conquering polio and other major illnesses of the 20th century, have secured for themselves a respect as researchers. DO's need to do the same, and probably will. But again, this takes time. 3. DO's, by tradition, have focused more on clinical medicine. In a DO school, that's what you will get, mostly. If you (the original poster) are worried about working hard and still being defecated on, maybe medicine isn't for you. What do you plan to do when you come up against an attending who doesn't like your (pick one) personality, skin color, accent, attitude, etc.
     
  6. siulrc

    siulrc Member
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    hey you go back to daddy so he can't make your decisions for you. and by the way is pretty pathetic of you that the only source of information that you have gather is from friends and daddy. Bcz if this is why you come out looking like an ignorant. I surely hope that you decide to pursue a MD rather than a DO. Please, I beg go for your MD that way I won't have to deal with you inmaturity in the osteopathic field.

    Sincerely,


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    siul
     
  7. DJ

    DJ Member
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    Premeds+MS1&2 think MD > DO
    But in the REAL WORLD, MD = DO

    Do your own research, and don't base your judgment solely on the opinions of others.

    Good luck.
     
  8. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member
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    I am fairly confident that you are researching this topic in depth and that this is just one place where you are exploring your questions, therefore i wont demean myself by attacking you for asking questions that many premeds like yourself have and continue to ask.

    when you are a physician you will always have some egoist (who also happens to be a physician) looking down on you. What you must remember is that this has nothing to do with you or your degree, it has to do with THEIR insecurity...if you play into it by becoming insecure yourself, you allow them to transfer their insecurities to you and thus elevate themselves...medicine is about experience and knowledge base...a nurse that is motivated to learn and spends time paying attention to what is going on around them has the ABILITY to surpass many physicians...medicine is about being aware, thinking about the little things and being selfeducated...none of these things are accomplished en masse by medical school, these things are accomplished by individuals...the medical school/residency tract only allows you to legally practice medicine, it is no guarantee of competence or ability and often its own inertia allows less than qualified individuals to live out the peter principle....If you truly wish to practice medicine (as opposed to making lots of money and having people admire you because of the degree on your wall) you won't care where you go, you will drive yourself to learn and you will become competent with time and exposure. If your main concern is how others view you, you are destined to dissapointment in later life, because you will be viewed as an old decrepit fart regardless of your previous degrees.
     
    mogoestomedschool likes this.
  9. youngjock

    youngjock Membership Revoked
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    Money, Money.

    Show me the money.

    MDs don't hate anyone, they hate anyone who take away their money. They can't hate other colleagues for sure. DOs come along to compete with MD for the same patients.

    That is why MDs tried hard to put down DOs.

    MDs have made enough money to build several more medical schools, but it hasn't happened. The allopathic enrollment numbers remain the same after 2 decades. Meanwhile, DO schools are poping out like the mushrooms.

    money is the only reason.
     
  10. spunkydoc

    spunkydoc Senior Member
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    1.in my experience, MDs do NOT hate DOs..any discrimination against DOs that i have encountered has been based soley in ignorance of the field.

    2. DO's are historically not a research oriented crew. however, this is changing dramaically as DOs begin to realize that evidence based medicine is the future and publish more solid studies on OMM. You will not find as many academic DOs, but they are out there and growing.

    3. your goal in becoming a doctor should not be fame and glory..it is a tough job and demands committment regardless of public opinion..i must agree with previous posters and caution you that no matter what the letters after your name, someone will fault you for something not once, but multiple times in your career..

    good luck
     
  11. RockyMan

    RockyMan Member
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    1. As far as I am aware, there is no valid survey data on how MD's in general feel about DO's as a group. (If anyone knows of good-quality published data, I would be very interested to see the reference.) In my personal experience (years in medical clinics, medical schools/research centers, individual research laboratories) I haven't heard MD's deride individual DO's in public or in private. My impression is that it just isn't an issue for most MD's, it' s not something that they bother thinking about very much, if at all. Since DO's and MD's work side-by-side in many clinics and hospitals, it seems to me unlikely that there is a great deal of significant MD prejudice against DO's as a group. Back in the 1960's the AMA approved a merger in California where several hundred DO's were given MD degrees, which suggests that even the AMA, when pressed, views the two degrees as essentially equivalent by the time physicians finish their post-graduate training. So I don't believe that there's 'hatred' of DO's by MD's in general or in any significant numbers.

    2. It's true that, compared to MD's, DO's rarely do research. Again, I haven't seen any survey data published, but based on my reading of biomedical scientific journals (Science, Nature, Cell, Blood, Annals of Internal Medicine, NEJM, JAMA, etc.) over the years, as well as recently, I'd estimate that I will see about 100 MD's listed as co-authors on articles before I find an article where a DO is listed as co-author. I almost never see an article from DO's at an osteopathic medical school.

    You CAN find DO's publishing articles in some journals sponsored by the osteopathic organizations, such as the Journal of the American Osteopathic Association (JAOA). Evidently there are many academic and other DO's who feel that there should be research journals that are specifically published for DO's. Unfortunately the quality of the research articles in these journals is often low, and they are rarely if ever found in libraries outside of osteopathic medical schools, so they have negligible impact on the general biomedical literature that the vast majority of physician-scientists read.

    If you go to my school (KCOM), there are a handful of basic science labs who have NIH grants and viable but small-scale research efforts, and you might be able to do enough work to get a publication (one of my classmates, who previously had a pharmacy doctorate, got a paper out from a lab in the Pharmacology Department durng his first 2 years). These are basic science-oriented lab studies and not human clinical research projects, however. I am not aware of any clinical faculty (i.e., DO's) here w/ NIH or NSF research grants, or who publish in anything other than the osteopathic-sponsored journals.

    Some of the OMM (Osteopathic Manipulation & Medicine) Department faculty have "research projects" going on, but the one's I've heard about from students here at KCOM are generally not studies that I would recommend anyone spending their time and effort for-- small sample size, outmoded/nonspecific techniques and measures, lack of proper statistical design & analysis, etc. As far as I know, none of them has ended up with results, or published in a non-osteopathy-sponsored journal. Based on my search of the NIH grants database, none of our OMM department faculty have NIH grants. Generally, if you are looking for a place to do research, make sure they have NIH and/or NSF grants-- lots of $$$ is required.

    3. Sure, apply to any school you want-- nobody's really checking to make sure that you apply only to their school or their field.

    4. Apply to the best medical schools you can, where scores and grades may possibly get you in. Period. If you want to do research, have a record as a productive lab researcher before you apply, whether it's in college or between college and medical school. You need to know that you ACTUALLY LIKE doing research, and you need to be able to convince the admissions committee that you like it, otherwise you won't get in (at least at any place that's very good).

    Very important-- apply to a federally funded, combined degree (MD-PhD) program [I could possibly be wrong, but I don't believe any of the DO-PhD programs are federally funded, so you have to pay the full tuition $$$.] Funding is key because they pay your tuition for the full 6-7 years to get both degrees, and they give you a stipend to live on (the other side of the coin is that you have a service provision-- one year of research work for every year of funding). You can still do research w/o the PhD, with only an MD or DO, but if you can swing it, it's a lot better to have the PhD experience and training.

    Try to be optimistic: If you are a good physician and/or a good scientist, most people will respect you regardless of whether you have an MD or a DO behind your name, and if you're really good, you will love what you do and not care if someone else doesn't like you for one silly reason or another.



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