Do med schools overlook a lack of volunteering due to being poor?

[Brooklyn-doc97]

I wanted to know do you guys know if med schools are willing to overlook volunteering and other extracurriculars due to poverty? I find it a bit difficult to volunteer due to it costing me so much in gas money to do something for free on a regular basis. I often hear people say that med schools want to see you volunteer to show that you can be altruistic and understanding of others struggles. But am I allowed to bypass this stuff since I have personally lived through said hardships, and have pretty much lived my life going through these experiences? I will have about 60 hours of clinical volunteering, about 70 hours of nonclinical volunteering and about 22 hours shadowing by the time of summer.

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[Princeton Medical Student]

Shortly, no. Do you have other clinical experience? That seems like a bigger issue here.

 

[Goro]

I wanted to know do you guys know if med schools are willing to overlook volunteering and other extracurriculars due to poverty? I find it a bit difficult to volunteer due to it costing me so much in gas money to do something for free on a regular basis. I often hear people say that med schools want to see you volunteer to show that you can be altruistic and understanding of others struggles. But am I allowed to bypass this stuff since I have personally lived through said hardships, and have pretty much lived my life going through these experiences? I will have about 60 hours of clinical volunteering, about 70 hours of nonclinical volunteering and about 22 hours shadowing by the time of summer.

No, you won't get cut some slack. Suggest working for a few years and saving up money.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Nope. You need to know what you're getting yourself into.

 

[LizzyM]

Are you employed in any way? If not, have you considered taking a part-time job in a clinical setting? That would provide you with some income and clinical experience. With the added cash, you'd have gas money to volunteer for a full day once a month (such that you are averaging 2 hours per week but getting it all done in one car trip). You should be able to get a full 100 hours within a year with that routine. You might also consider volunteering in your immediate area, within walking distance of home (unless you are in a super-rural area). Local non-profits including churches will have some ideas of ways you can help your neighbors. Being poor yourself means you may have some insights into how to approach them and serve them without offending their dignity.

 

[Goro]

Nope. You need to know what you're getting yourself into.

And that you really want to be around sick or injured people for the next 30-40 years.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Are you employed in any way? If not, have you considered taking a part-time job in a clinical setting? That would provide you with some income and clinical experience. With the added cash, you'd have gas money to volunteer for a full day once a month (such that you are averaging 2 hours per week but getting it all done in one car trip). You should be able to get a full 100 hours within a year with that routine. You might also consider volunteering in your immediate area, within walking distance of home (unless you are in a super-rural area). Local non-profits including churches will have some ideas of ways you can help your neighbors. Being poor yourself means you may have some insights into how to approach them and serve them without offending their dignity.

I was a little glib, but ^^^this. I don't think you need to volunteer to gain clinical experience if you have a clinical job that fulfills the clinical experience checkbox.

 

[Brooklyn-doc97]

Are you employed in any way? If not, have you considered taking a part-time job in a clinical setting? That would provide you with some income and clinical experience. With the added cash, you'd have gas money to volunteer for a full day once a month (such that you are averaging 2 hours per week but getting it all done in one car trip). You should be able to get a full 100 hours within a year with that routine. You might also consider volunteering in your immediate area, within walking distance of home (unless you are in a super-rural area). Local non-profits including churches will have some ideas of ways you can help your neighbors. Being poor yourself means you may have some insights into how to approach them and serve them without offending their dignity.

I am currently employed but it's a non-clinical job. I have tried for paid clinical positions but they all seem to barely give out an interview, let alone an acceptance. Also, I live in a rural area so the opportunities are bare in that regard. I would like to move into a big city to try for the opportunities there but the cost of living is too high for me to ever stay afloat and I don't know anyone, so it would be risky to take on roommates and not knowing their personalities first.

 

[Brooklyn-doc97]

Nope. You need to know what you're getting yourself into.

I am fully aware of what I am getting into, I have been taking care of a family member who is sick and have been for years. So, I have firsthand experience with helping sick people personally in my life. That's one of the main reasons why I want to become a physician after having dealt with personal experience in that regard.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I am fully aware of what I am getting into, I have been taking care of a family member who is sick and have been for years. So, I have firsthand experience with helping sick people personally in my life. That's one of the main reasons why I want to become a physician after having dealt with personal experience in that regard.

While you have undoubtedly gained clinical skills in caring for your family member, and it can give you a good story when you're writing your personal statement, that isn't going to count as a meaningful clinical experience. It's completely different caring for your own family member vs. strangers.

Sorry, I know that's not what you want to hear. But you asked the question of whether the numbers you described in your OP would be sufficient to apply, and the bottom line is that they are not.

 

[Brooklyn-doc97]

No, you won't get cut some slack. Suggest working for a few years and saving up money.

I don't mean for this to sound rude or anything as such, but have you ever been poor or dealt with poor people? It's not as easy as being able to just pocket money away to the side and save for a rainy day. Often my money is gone through quite quickly on rent, food, car reparation/gas, and other miscellaneous purchases that will put a serious hole in your pocket. Anytime you try to save money as a poor person, it gets taking away due to unexpected expenses.

 

[Brooklyn-doc97]

While you have undoubtedly gained clinical skills in caring for your family member, and it can give you a good story when you're writing your personal statement, that isn't going to count as a meaningful clinical experience. It's completely different caring for your own family member vs. strangers.

Sorry, I know that's not what you want to hear. But you asked the question of whether the numbers you described in your OP would be sufficient to apply, and the bottom line is that they are not.

Thank you for your post. I mean I will see what I can do then in that regard. Also, I apologize if my response came across as sounding rude, it's kind of hard trying to convey a message kindly without tone being factored into text when writing.

In a way I had a feeling that this would be the situation since so many applicants have like 150+ hours, but what wondering if any exceptions to the rule were made, thanks for letting me know.

 

[Brooklyn-doc97]

I think some of the responses here are too harsh. OP, look around your community and see if you can find free clinics (I volunteered at one that was open nights on some days), soup kitchens, churches/places of worship, community centers, etc. Even if you can get a few mixed hours here and there it's better than nothing. I don't think you need to take years off and delay your dream.

There was a free clinic in my area who was allowing people to volunteer there but ever since the pandemic, they have not allowed anyone to volunteer there since. Only the hospitals which are a good while away. Getting more nonclinical seems to be something I can do, but clinical is going to require a lot maneuvering to acquire since it seems that I need it. Thank you.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thank you for your post. I mean I will see what I can do then in that regard. Also, I apologize if my response came across as sounding rude, it's kind of hard trying to convey a message kindly without tone being factored into text when writing.

In a way I had a feeling that this would be the situation since so many applicants have like 150+ hours, but what wondering if any exceptions to the rule were made, thanks for letting me know.

I know this isn't not what you were hoping to hear, but we are not trying to be rude or dismiss your hardship. But ultimately, it all comes down to a numbers game, and if you apply without a good number of hours you're going to lose to someone with the same stats but more hours.

I know you're anxious to apply, but med school isn't going anywhere. If it will take you an extra year to accrue the hours that you need to be competitive, it's much better to do that and apply only once rather than wasting a bunch of money on an application that has a low likelihood of success. The alternative would be to take a risk and move to the city to see if you could find a true clinical job; I know that's a scary leap to take, but it's one that many decide is necessary to gain the skills they need in order to advance their careers.

 

[ethereal_fae]

OP I am also poor so I understand the struggle. I work more than full time just to support myself, and while also attending school full time it makes very difficult to find time to volunteer. That being said, med schools will unfortunately not cut you much slack just due to the vast quantity of applications that they receive. I have found ways to accumulate a couple hundred hours of volunteering by spreading a handful of hours here and there over the last four years. A lot has come from fundraising for various non-profits or organizations, which does not require being in person and saves me a commute (I don't own a car). I am fortunate to live in a city, which affords me the ability to walk to places. But if you can find an opportunity that you can do just one or two days a month, over time those hours will add up.

I also agree with a previous poster that caring for a sick loved one, while a valuable contribution to your application, will not be enough to convince adcoms that you truly understand what you're getting into.

 

[LunaOri]

Yes, you will need more experience in clinical (volunteer or employment) or nonclinical situations. Does caring for your family member preclude you from moving closer to opportunities? In a city, you may not need a car at all. And sharing apartments with strangers is something most of us have done: if you look at housing near a university, you may be able to find grad students or med students with whom to share living space.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

I've received multiple emails about remote medical scribe positions. Something to look into if you have a good internet connection. Kinda clinical and pays, no commute.

 

[Goro]

I don't mean for this to sound rude or anything as such, but have you ever been poor or dealt with poor people? It's not as easy as being able to just pocket money away to the side and save for a rainy day. Often my money is gone through quite quickly on rent, food, car reparation/gas, and other miscellaneous purchases that will put a serious hole in your pocket. Anytime you try to save money as a poor person, it gets taking away due to unexpected expenses.

Yup, sure have. I've had students who were homeless, or had to quit college and work to go help out the family after parent(s) got sick or died.

But this is neither here nor there. Medical schools do not want to waste a seat on someone who will decide that "this isn't for me", and then bail. We Faculty have all seen this happen.

Unfortunately, this process does select against the very poor or unfortunate. Or rather, selects FOR those who are fortunate.

As mentioned above, now you are in a marathon, not a sprint. Not only are med schools not going anywhere, but by the time you're ready to apply, more will have opened their doors.

 

[lostmed]

OP I am also poor so I understand the struggle. I work more than full time just to support myself, and while also attending school full time it makes very difficult to find time to volunteer. That being said, med schools will unfortunately not cut you much slack just due to the vast quantity of applications that they receive. I have found ways to accumulate a couple hundred hours of volunteering by spreading a handful of hours here and there over the last four years. A lot has come from fundraising for various non-profits or organizations, which does not require being in person and saves me a commute (I don't own a car). I am fortunate to live in a city, which affords me the ability to walk to places. But if you can find an opportunity that you can do just one or two days a month, over time those hours will add up.

I also agree with a previous poster that caring for a sick loved one, while a valuable contribution to your application, will not be enough to convince adcoms that you truly understand what you're getting into.

I was just going to suggest this! I know you said you’re in a rural area but definitely look on IG/social media even for community organizations/non profits who need help you can do remotely! I just brought on people for remote volunteering at my org because we needed it bad and I’m not the only one. That way you can do it from home and they typically are flexible with hours so it won’t interfere with work!

 

[Brooklyn-doc97]

I know this isn't not what you were hoping to hear, but we are not trying to be rude or dismiss your hardship. But ultimately, it all comes down to a numbers game, and if you apply without a good number of hours you're going to lose to someone with the same stats but more hours.

I know you're anxious to apply, but med school isn't going anywhere. If it will take you an extra year to accrue the hours that you need to be competitive, it's much better to do that and apply only once rather than wasting a bunch of money on an application that has a low likelihood of success. The alternative would be to take a risk and move to the city to see if you could find a true clinical job; I know that's a scary leap to take, but it's one that many decide is necessary to gain the skills they need in order to advance their careers.

Thank you, i'll try to see about getting my whole application set up before I try to wing it and will possibly delay my whole application if need be.

 

[Brooklyn-doc97]

Yup, sure have. I've had students who were homeless, or had to quit college and work to go help out the family after parent(s) got sick or died.

But this is neither here nor there. Medical schools do not want to waste a seat on someone who will decide that "this isn't for me", and then bail. We Faculty have all seen this happen.

Unfortunately, this process does select against the very poor or unfortunate. Or rather, selects FOR those who are fortunate.

As mentioned above, now you are in a marathon, not a sprint. Not only are med schools not going anywhere, but by the time you're ready to apply, more will have opened their doors.

Thank you, and I apologize if my post came across as rude in anyway.

 

[Brooklyn-doc97]

I've received multiple emails about remote medical scribe positions. Something to look into if you have a good internet connection. Kinda clinical and pays, no commute.

I have never heard of scribing being done online but i'll check it out, thanks for the heads up.

 

[Brooklyn-doc97]

OP I am also poor so I understand the struggle. I work more than full time just to support myself, and while also attending school full time it makes very difficult to find time to volunteer. That being said, med schools will unfortunately not cut you much slack just due to the vast quantity of applications that they receive. I have found ways to accumulate a couple hundred hours of volunteering by spreading a handful of hours here and there over the last four years. A lot has come from fundraising for various non-profits or organizations, which does not require being in person and saves me a commute (I don't own a car). I am fortunate to live in a city, which affords me the ability to walk to places. But if you can find an opportunity that you can do just one or two days a month, over time those hours will add up.

I also agree with a previous poster that caring for a sick loved one, while a valuable contribution to your application, will not be enough to convince adcoms that you truly understand what you're getting into.

Thank you, i'll keep what you said in mind and will see what opportunities I can do online as well.

 

[allseasons]

I really wish there was more accomodation for low-SES applicants. Just wondering, would you qualify for FAP? Cause otherwise med schools won't even give you the little extra consideration they normally do for low-SES.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

As someone who ran out of money while applying due to unexpected expenses, I feel where you're coming from at least partially. Unfortunately as other posters are saying, you won't be given much slack with regards to EC's.

If at all possible, I would look for the highest paying job you can find, so you can spend more time on ECs concurrently or save up and quit for a certain period of time to get lots of EC hours. I know that's easier said than done for folks in small towns or other places where there aren't ample employment opportunities. But your mind is an asset. And there are lots of opportunities online with the pandemic. Most everyone on SDN could tutor STEM or SAT/ACT online for $30-$60+ per hour. Within the medical field, tech jobs and MA jobs are fairly accessible as entry level jobs and often pay $15/hr+. You could also get a true entry level job as a scribe ($10/hr or so) as use it as a foot in the door to a better paying medical job. What do you think of those options? Also what is your degree in?

It might take you a little longer to get the hours but it is possible and can be easier if you're smart about it. Best of luck.

 

[NegativeMargin]

I was in a similar spot as you years ago, and am actually back in that spot now, super broke because of the application process. One thing I did was get a job at a private care facility, specializing in dementia. Every city has a perpetual shortage of care-givers for these sorts of positions, and they have a shortage of people coming in for entertainment too. If you look outside of skilled nursing facilities these are non-skill jobs as well, meaning you can come in and just work with minimal training. Some people also came in and just did environmental services or cooking, and then shifted to the clinical stuff.

I got 7,000 clinical hours, came in on my days off to volunteer which counted as clinical as well, volunteered to do entertainment, singing and organizing for people to come in, helped organize activities for charities and "walk for the cure" type stuff which got us regional awards. It was not a lot of work to do it either, and all it took was driving down there and filling out an application. Also, most of them are so perpetually understaffed that if you show you are a competent care giver, they will for sure give you the wiggle room you need for school because they are not going to get rid of good care givers.

Also heads up, FAP now doesn't take your family income into account if you are over 26, so it's more like FAFSA in that regard. This is a monumental change, and would have saved me thousands of dollars. I don't know your age but start looking for any and all opportunities you can. Also I get a $200 stipend just for being underrepresented and doing research at my school, only requirement being maintaining a 3.0 GPA. Once you have established a positive reputation for yourself at the school reach out to the chairs of the departments you interact with and see what they can find for you.. many of them went out of their way to get things set up for me. People want to help us succeed, we just need to put in a little leg room to get everything going.

 

[Proudfather94]

I wanted to know do you guys know if med schools are willing to overlook volunteering and other extracurriculars due to poverty? I find it a bit difficult to volunteer due to it costing me so much in gas money to do something for free on a regular basis. I often hear people say that med schools want to see you volunteer to show that you can be altruistic and understanding of others struggles. But am I allowed to bypass this stuff since I have personally lived through said hardships, and have pretty much lived my life going through these experiences? I will have about 60 hours of clinical volunteering, about 70 hours of nonclinical volunteering and about 22 hours shadowing by the time of summer.

Sorry they will cut some slack but not enough to make those hours enough. Maybe you could get some clinical experience and then try to switch to working in the hospital lab after you obtain enough pt hours. The lab typically pays more but you would need to have a bio degree if that's what you got in undergrad. You could use the money from getting a higher paying job to finance your volunteering.

Your story of overcoming your issues will be very good material for your application. If you can get those hours you'll have a great story to tell.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I had to take time with my response because of the great responses so far.

When I listen to students and faculty talk about what they like to see in applicants, one of the characteristics is resilience and creativity in overcoming the odds. Even when it comes to decreased opportunities due to the pandemic, admissions committees want to see how "creative" you are to find opportunities to serve your community. I agree those who have more privileges and income have more options., but that is the philosophy I hear most.

It is hard because when you have to be the provider to someone in need who cannot afford treatment, you probably have more empathy than those who have been more fortunate to avoid financial challenges. But you don't have many options as the doctor or other health care provider if insurance won't pay.

Yes we are aware that most med students come from families in the top quintile of income. I know many are trying to be sensitive to bringing more economic diversity in, but creating different standards will not be the route to equity.

 

[KnightDoc]

Yes we are aware that most med students come from families in the top quintile of income. I know many are trying to be sensitive to bringing more economic diversity in, but creating different standards will not be the route to equity.

Quite honestly, I am surprised no one has mentioned the most obvious reason of all. It's true that adcoms are under pressure to increase economic diversity, and they are making significant strides in doing so.

It's possible that if more low SES applicants were in OP's position, maybe standards would become different in order to achieve a desired goal, just like allowances are made with respect to MCATs and GPAs due to unique challenges some low SES applicants face (lack of resources, subpar early education, etc.) in achieving at the level of their higher SES counterparts.

But, the fact remains that plenty of low SES applicants manage to gather hours and experiences equal to and, in many cases, superior to their high SES peers. And THAT is why adcoms won't make allowances. Because they'd always rather admit someone who overcame the obstacle than someone who needed an allowance, AND there are a sufficient number of such candidates in the pool each cycle.

 

[Brooklyn-doc97]

I was in a similar spot as you years ago, and am actually back in that spot now, super broke because of the application process. One thing I did was get a job at a private care facility, specializing in dementia. Every city has a perpetual shortage of care-givers for these sorts of positions, and they have a shortage of people coming in for entertainment too. If you look outside of skilled nursing facilities these are non-skill jobs as well, meaning you can come in and just work with minimal training. Some people also came in and just did environmental services or cooking, and then shifted to the clinical stuff.

I got 7,000 clinical hours, came in on my days off to volunteer which counted as clinical as well, volunteered to do entertainment singing and organizing for people to come in, helped organize activities for charities and "walk for the cure" type stuff which got us regional awards. It was not a lot of work to do it either, and all it took was driving down there and filling out an application. Also, most of them are so perpetually understaffed that if you show you are a competent care giver, they will for sure give you the wiggle room you need for school because they are not going to get rid of good care givers.

Also heads up, FAP now doesn't take your family income into account if you are over 26, so it's more like FAFSA in that regard. This is a monumental change, and would have saved me thousands of dollars. I don't know your age but start looking for any and all opportunities you can. Also I get a $200 stipend just for being underrepresented and doing research at my school, only requirement being maintaining a 3.0 GPA. Once you have established a positive reputation for yourself at the school reach out to the chairs of the departments you interact with and see what they can find for you.. many of them went out of their way to get things set up for me. People want to help us succeed, we just need to put in a little leg room to get everything going.

Thank you for the advice, I have been applying all day today and a couple of positions had actually opened up today. I am hoping to hear back from someone when come Monday so fingers crossed for that. Also, thanks for the heads up in terms of FAP. At the moment I am still underage for the new changes since I am 23 years old, but I am qualified for it as a dependent with how my situation is.

 

[Brooklyn-doc97]

I had to take time with my response because of the great responses so far.

When I listen to students and faculty talk about what they like to see in applicants, one of the characteristics is resilience and creativity in overcoming the odds. Even when it comes to decreased opportunities due to the pandemic, admissions committees want to see how "creative" you are to find opportunities to serve your community. I agree those who have more privileges and income have more options., but that is the philosophy I hear most.

It is hard because when you have to be the provider to someone in need who cannot afford treatment, you probably have more empathy than those who have been more fortunate to avoid financial challenges. But you don't have many options as the doctor or other health care provider if insurance won't pay.

Yes we are aware that most med students come from families in the top quintile of income. I know many are trying to be sensitive to bringing more economic diversity in, but creating different standards will not be the route to equity.

Thank you for your comment. One of the main reasons why I always wanted to be a physician was due to a lack of representation and wanting to help people who have come from a similar background such as mine. I am a black male who had at first grew up in the projects in NYC but have moved to a rural area in a different state. I would like to mainly serve low-income black areas and try to be a role model. I would mainly like to dedicate my time on wanting to take care of people who have to use medicare and medicaid, or are just financially strained in general.

Admittedly the whole process feels so intimidating when seeing plenty of people at college say things along the lines of their parents being lawyers, dentists, doctors, and many other types of professionals. Meanwhile I have lived a different life compared to a lot of my classmates in terms of having to work full time for like 50 hours a week and doing school full time with any time leftover being used for volunteering.

When I first started school, I was below average and was not taught how to properly study for college. So I developed C's in some courses, then I ended up taking a year break to get my study strategy correct and made a comeback the following year making straight A's. I mean it feels difficult in a lot of ways, but I will force myself into seeing what else can be done.

In terms of volunteering in the meantime, I had just signed up for a position in which I would be cooking and doing pantry work for low-income families.

 

[Brooklyn-doc97]

I just wanted to say thank you all for your comments. I admittedly was concerned on how any of this can be done with some of the circumstances in my life, but I will try to apply myself more so to prove to med schools that I have the resilience that they're looking for. I apologize for having made excuses.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Quite honestly, I am surprised no one has mentioned the most obvious reason of all. It's true that adcoms are under pressure to increase economic diversity, and they are making significant strides in doing so.

It's possible that if more low SES applicants were in OP's position, maybe standards would become different in order to achieve a desired goal, just like allowances are made with respect to MCATs and GPAs due to unique challenges some low SES applicants face (lack of resources, subpar early education, etc.) in achieving at the level of their higher SES counterparts.

But, the fact remains that plenty of low SES applicants manage to gather hours and experiences equal to and, in many cases, superior to their high SES peers. And THAT is why adcoms won't make allowances. Because they'd always rather admit someone who overcame the obstacle than someone who needed an allowance, AND there are a sufficient number of such candidates in the pool each cycle.

Yes, it is holistic review. Technically we would have set standards to flexibly allow us to consider circumstances from lower SES rather than "lower standards", but you have the point. I can confirm from my experience that low SES applicants in general report the same range of total experience hours for clinical and community service as those from higher SES.

[Re: increase economic diversity... that's why I took my time to answer.]

 

[dnyal]

And the consensus of the responses explains why medical school enrollment for applicants from households that make less than $46K represents less than a quarter of total students (according to a 2018 AAMC analysis). Schools go around beating their breasts, shouting mea culpa, and calling for more representation, then turn around and punish you for being poor (and the working poor are mainly minorities, too).

I find it highly hypocritical. The fact the AAMC hasn’t released a new income analysis of the medical student body since 2018 says it all: they’re aware of their own hypocrisy. There’s no point in having brown faces in high places when the minority doctor who just saw me (also minority) last week wanted to prescribe me an extremely expensive, brand-name medication that I couldn’t afford. We are also in need of income background representation among doctors, but the system is clearly not made for that. Sorry, OP, but that’s the unfortunate reality to this process.

 

[StarDancer]

I hate to say this but being poor is a crime in medical school. I was poor, worked for years, saved up, but am poor once again while in med school. So what I’m telling you is my own experience.

Even if they let you in, they do so because they need someone to be lower quartile.

I didn’t have money to come for 2nd look and I told them that. They gave our Fa packages to people who attended 2nd look. So by the time they got to mine, they said, “ sorry, we gave away all the scholarships. We can try next year. You should have come to 2nd look”. I had to work. And really couldn’t afford another plane ticket.

Med school has a high hidden cost. To start, my school lied that we didn’t need a car to attend this school, so I turned down a scholarship at a better school that was cheaper, because I didn’t have a car. When i showed up, true, we didn’t need a car for the first 4 months, and you probably didn’t need one for 2 years if you didn’t have to drive to a remote site for your preceptorships. But then I’m third year, they can send you up to 1.5 h away each way to a clinic site. And you might be stuck paying for a lot of gas for a whole month.

Extra resources. We have “shared” resources but I couldn’t afford more than 3 NBMEs for step 1. I certainly didn’t have money to do my “free 120” at a testing center “for the experience”. I worked my ass off and did well on step one, by sure grit. And also I had friends who’d let me watch an outside resource with them at their place. So I guess I turned out ok.

Come 3rd year. I’ve classmates that hang out and play golf with attendings. They can afford the fancy figs to dress like their attendings. And as stupid as it sounds, dressing the part is part of it. At least at my school. My best grade came from my preceptor whose dress sense is the same as mine. Coincidence? Lol

Next, I did a ton of research. We can apply for a grant of up to $500 for 1 conference a year. I’m going to one and I’m already paying about $200 myself. Doesn’t sound like a lot but if we can’t take extra loans to cover that. I have another one coming up. But to get my publication list up, I applied for a poster presentation. Someone will go pin my poster on the board since I can’t physically attend. I mean, it counts still, since my abstract was accepted at the conference.

Oh and I am attending the first one because another student was soooo sweet to let me crash with her. I’m gonna bake her cookies to thank her. Maybe I’m a semi-decent person who has had some good luck meeting good people.

Now, onto publishing. I’ve gotten lucky where the PI is able to find funding to publish the paper. I’ve “real papers” that were easy to find a traditional journal, but not much luck with case reports. I found out that my classmates offer to pay for their paper to be published if the PI has no money. Erm $300 here, $1150 here… Yeah, that’s a luxury I don’t have.

And applying for residency? It costs a ton. At least I could take out more loans to cover that. Thank god. And maybe I’m one of those who are happy about virtual interviews. No really. At least I still get to interview.

Sorry for the rambling, but I hope you know what you’re getting yourself into. It’s a crime to be poor, but people it can be worse in med school. I’d save up if I were you, have lots of left over for the “extra costs” in med school. And don’t ever admit that you came from a poor background except during the application process.

I need to go study now. And clean my apartment. And cook. Can’t afford a cleaning and meal delivery service, unlike some students. But I know I will be ok eventually. Life is not fair, but I’m glad I get to attend med school. I’d save up more if I could do over. And probably picked a different med school.

Mic drop.

 

[NegativeMargin]

I hate to say this but being poor is a crime in medical school. I was poor, worked for years, saved up, but am poor once again while in med school. So what I’m telling you is my own experience.

Even if they let you in, they do so because they need someone to be lower quartile.

I didn’t have money to come for 2nd look and I told them that. They gave our Fa packages to people who attended 2nd look. So by the time they got to mine, they said, “ sorry, we gave away all the scholarships. We can try next year. You should have come to 2nd look”. I had to work. And really couldn’t afford another plane ticket.

Med school has a high hidden cost. To start, my school lied that we didn’t need a car to attend this school, so I turned down a scholarship at a better school that was cheaper, because I didn’t have a car. When i showed up, true, we didn’t need a car for the first 4 months, and you probably didn’t need one for 2 years if you didn’t have to drive to a remote site for your preceptorships. But then I’m third year, they can send you up to 1.5 h away each way to a clinic site. And you might be stuck paying for a lot of gas for a whole month.

Extra resources. We have “shared” resources but I couldn’t afford more than 3 NBMEs for step 1. I certainly didn’t have money to do my “free 120” at a testing center “for the experience”. I worked my ass off and did well on step one, by sure grit. And also I had friends who’d let me watch an outside resource with them at their place. So I guess I turned out ok.

Come 3rd year. I’ve classmates that hang out and play golf with attendings. They can afford the fancy figs to dress like their attendings. And as stupid as it sounds, dressing the part is part of it. At least at my school. My best grade came from my preceptor whose dress sense is the same as mine. Coincidence? Lol

Next, I did a ton of research. We can apply for a grant of up to $500 for 1 conference a year. I’m going to one and I’m already paying about $200 myself. Doesn’t sound like a lot but if we can’t take extra loans to cover that. I have another one coming up. But to get my publication list up, I applied for a poster presentation. Someone will go pin my poster on the board since I can’t physically attend. I mean, it counts still, since my abstract was accepted at the conference.

Oh and I am attending the first one because another student was soooo sweet to let me crash with her. I’m gonna bake her cookies to thank her. Maybe I’m a semi-decent person who has had some good luck meeting good people.

Now, onto publishing. I’ve gotten lucky where the PI is able to find funding to publish the paper. I’ve “real papers” that were easy to find a traditional journal, but not much luck with case reports. I found out that my classmates offer to pay for their paper to be published if the PI has no money. Erm $300 here, $1150 here… Yeah, that’s a luxury I don’t have.

And applying for residency? It costs a ton. At least I could take out more loans to cover that. Thank god. And maybe I’m one of those who are happy about virtual interviews. No really. At least I still get to interview.

Sorry for the rambling, but I hope you know what you’re getting yourself into. It’s a crime to be poor, but people it can be worse in med school. I’d save up if I were you, have lots of left over for the “extra costs” in med school. And don’t ever admit that you came from a poor background except during the application process.

I need to go study now. And clean my apartment. And cook. Can’t afford a cleaning and meal delivery service, unlike some students. But I know I will be ok eventually. Life is not fair, but I’m glad I get to attend med school. I’d save up more if I could do over. And probably picked a different med school.

Mic drop.

I'd love hear more about the actual $$$ amounts spent and where exactly you found room for growth. I'm about to start this fall, there were times I literally didn't have a home at all, let alone had someone I paid to come clean it for me, so the idea that I'm at an absolute disadvantage because of that or likely not being able to afford a meal service seems quite scary. Was there an element of fiscal knowledge that you didn't feel you had that other more well-off matriculants did, or that you otherwise should have had because of your circumstances? besides going to that other school and trying to save more money, what specifically would you tell yourself to do if you could talk to the MS0 about to matriculate?

It looks like things going virtual has really been a great change for folks like us. I know it's one of the driving factors for why I chose this cycle. Not only not having to drive/fly to interviews, but 2nd look days being virtual as well.. I know this probably isn't any real consolation, but all of these shortcomings you list here could be lessons I can learn form that will stop me from having to live through the same hard lessons, so I appreciate you sharing them.

 

[StarDancer]

Thank you for your comment. One of the main reasons why I always wanted to be a physician was due to a lack of representation and wanting to help people who have come from a similar background such as mine. I am a black male who had at first grew up in the projects in NYC but have moved to a rural area in a different state. I would like to mainly serve low-income black areas and try to be a role model. I would mainly like to dedicate my time on wanting to take care of people who have to use medicare and medicaid, or are just financially strained in general.

Admittedly the whole process feels so intimidating when seeing plenty of people at college say things along the lines of their parents being lawyers, dentists, doctors, and many other types of professionals. Meanwhile I have lived a different life compared to a lot of my classmates in terms of having to work full time for like 50 hours a week and doing school full time with any time leftover being used for volunteering.

When I first started school, I was below average and was not taught how to properly study for college. So I developed C's in some courses, then I ended up taking a year break to get my study strategy correct and made a comeback the following year making straight A's. I mean it feels difficult in a lot of ways, but I will force myself into seeing what else can be done.

In terms of volunteering in the meantime, I had just signed up for a position in which I would be cooking and doing pantry work for low-income families.

They like people who overcome failure and hardship.

 

[NegativeMargin]

Maybe my cohort is poor but even the few kids with doctor parents we have here don't do meal services. Most of them are inefficient (you still have to cook them) and the ones that ship you cooked meals are meh... some of the "rich" kids at my school are still rocking iPhone 8s and XRs. Some of the "poorer ones" (i'm poor myself) maxed out their loans, have new phones/laptops, and went to NYC/SF/exotic places over break (nothing wrong with that) and some even skipped class to have a long weekend in miami

I can make 20+ extremely healthy meals (rice in pressure cooker, microwave frozen veggies, cook steak/chicken/salmon 6 oz per meal) for <$2.5 meal) within 3 hours, <$1.5meal if only chicken/fish. This can last a week while also enjoying other items for breakfast/snacks. Beats paying $10/meal and cooking is REALLY simple if you take 30 minutes to Youtube some recipes. If anything you're better off grabbing chipotle on your way home from class. Most "fast" food is actually SLOW. 10 min to drive there, 15-25 min in drive through (everywhere is understaffed), 10 min to drive back. In that 1 hour I can prepare 15 meals

As far as cleaning, just pick up after yourself and don't make a mess. Buy only what you need, minimize. I literally never have a cleaning day because I just clean something right after I use it and my apartment is always sparkly clean

Thank you for the response. I do appreciate the contrast of perspectives. I've seen hundreds of matriculants discuss not being able to afford food and cleaning services and that being a detriment. To me this points to the possibility of other unknown stressors.

Unforeseen costs do disproportionally effect those with low discretionary income. I just want to know what those costs are?

An example for pre-med are the hidden costs of the app cycle or the MCAT. What are some costs you've had, or that typical matriculants have had, that are things you didn't necessarily see coming?

 

[StarDancer]

I'd love hear more about the actual $$$ amounts spent and where exactly you found room for growth. I'm about to start this fall, there were times I literally didn't have a home at all, let alone had someone I paid to come clean it for me, so the idea that I'm at an absolute disadvantage because of that or likely not being able to afford a meal service seems quite scary. Was there an element of fiscal knowledge that you didn't feel you had that other more well-off matriculants did, or that you otherwise should have had because of your circumstances? besides going to that other school and trying to save more money, what specifically would you tell yourself to do if you could talk to the MS0 about to matriculate?

It looks like things going virtual has really been a great change for folks like us. I know it's one of the driving factors for why I chose this cycle. Not only not having to drive/fly to interviews, but 2nd look days being virtual as well.. I know this probably isn't any real consolation, but all of these shortcomings you list here could be lessons I can learn form that will stop me from having to live through the same hard lessons, so I appreciate you sharing them.

I’m a US citizen but not from one of the 48 contiguous states. I spent $12k on applying/ interviewing, and then about $4k moving myself and bunch of suitcases here. Shipping my car would have cost more than the $1900 I got for selling it when I moved here.

To be fair, I’d say that most students don’t have butlers or cleaning services. But there are a few special students who do. I guess I realized I was different the moment we arrived at orientation to pick up our orientation items. We had to option to order things like T shirts, caps, jackets, scrubs, etc etc. I just got a lap coat that I needed for anatomy, and 1 set of scrubs that I never needed. I thought I needed them.

1) don’t buy something unless you absolutely need it. Ask a few more people. No idea how old you are, but if you ask an older, married student with kids, you’d get a better idea of what’s a necessity/ luxury/ white elephant. Ie ask people with a concept of money. (I still don’t own any t shirts with my med school logo lol)

I actually have a better concept of money than many of my peers. I prioritize mental health. Eg. Pre-COVID, we all took notes on iPads and I was using a $10 Amazon stylus. My palm kept bumping it and I was miserable because I couldn’t take notes fast enough. I caved and got an Apple Pencil for $100. (Ok, I’m not exceeding poor because I took a ton of gap years, but I still don’t like surprise expenses). One day, I dropped mine and realized it when I was close to my friend’s place. I said that I’ll run back and get it and be back shortly. She said, “oh, we can amazon prime you one. It will be here tomorrow”. And I said, “I don’t have another $100 to get a new Apple Pencil”. Thank god it was where I dropped it when I was stuffing my backpack.

So during orientation for 3rd year, they made a slide about “good student” vs “bad student” and the slide said, “good students bring lunch”, “bad students are always hungry”. Gosh, the hypocrisy when they tell us that it’s not our patients fault when they make poor choices. So, as I was saying, I actually requested a couple of sites that were closer to home, but the person who collected our wishlist/ preferences for rotation, never turned it in to the person coordinating remote sites. So I ate breakfast so I can appear as a better student, and had dinner maybe 4-5 days a week and drank a ton of water because I was paying $50-60 a week on gas to get to my remote site. My car is old and keeps threatening to fall apart. But I hope it will make it still I get 2-3 residency paychecks.

2) don’t buy a crappy car. The lemon I got is one of the biggest regrets in my life. I’ve spent 3x the cost of the car fixing it in under 1.5 years. But trust me when I tell you that when you’re poor, you are forced to make poor decisions.

Yeah. I really don’t eat much. I think my body has adjusted. I lost 13lbs in a year. When I first started, there were free meals when interest groups wanted you to attend. So I got a few meals that way. When COVID hit, they gave all students a small grant, but they added it to my max out of pocket. So it didn’t really help me. My dean was sweet though, she offered to lend me money when they forgot to process my student loans. She’s one of the good ones. But when I told other students that they messed up my loans, they tell me that FA messes up everyone’s loans. Yes, but can you borrow from mom and dad? If you can, I have it worse.

3) pick a school that guarantees scholarships for all 4 years. Some people were only given scholarships for 1st year. Be careful of what’s written on your offer.

4) whatever school you get accepted at, seek “me” out. By me, I mean the person who gives zero f**ks and will tell you the good and bad. I’m not telling everyone to not come here. I’m telling the truth. There are many great things about my school. I’ve met a upperclassman who has graduated and will give me real advice and insight about how to navigate things. Sometimes I don’t know why I pay school fees, because most of the things I learned from faculty who are supposed to be teaching at my school has hurt me more than helped. (My school has great research opportunities, great volunteering opportunities, and there are faculty who care- just gotta seek them out.) so the question to ask is “what did you wish you knew about this school when you were in my position?)

it’s not in my personality to suck up and be a fake. But when I told a friend that I very recently learned that people who threw me under the bus and the biggest suck ups and dress just like their attendings, my friend said, “of course. That’s true in life though. You like people who are like you. And you help people who are like you”. They have decided to eat less so they can go play golf too. But anyhoo, it’s sad that I only realized this half way they 3rd year.

5) that’s why I said, if you want good grades, don’t let anyone know you’re poor. Don’t eat, and just look the part.

One day, when I’m an attending, I’ll donate a grant to a student who’s moving from somewhere other than the 48 states to get a decent enough car, esp if they got screw over by my school’s false advertising

 

[StarDancer]

I have my principles and no one should have to die because I’m hungry. I will never eat meat. It’s so expensive to make a vegetarian meal.

But class dues, drug tests, TB test, i don’t remember what else. Couple of unexpected things like that

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Thank you for the response. I do appreciate the contrast of perspectives. I've seen hundreds of matriculants discuss not being able to afford food and cleaning services and that being a detriment. To me this points to the possibility of other unknown stressors.

Unforeseen costs do disproportionally effect those with low discretionary income. I just want to know what those costs are?

An example for pre-med are the hidden costs of the app cycle or the MCAT. What are some costs you've had, or that typical matriculants have had, that are things you didn't necessarily see coming?

Examples for medical school would be:

- Professional clothing/white coat attire. You need to have at least a week's worth of professional clothing on hand by the time you hit M3, more if you don't want to have to do laundry/dry cleaning all the time. Building a professional wardrobe can be hundreds if not thousands of dollars if you choose to purchase all new clothing and accessories. You can spend substantially less if you buy secondhand, it's also more environmentally friendly to thrift.

- Reliable transportation for rotations. Factor in gas, insurance, parking, and maintenance.

- A decently powerful computer, if you don't already have one. Make sure it meets the technical specifications that your medical school requires of personal computers.

- Step 1/2 prep - this can be a few thousand if your school doesn't provide resources like Sketchy, UWorld, Boards & Beyond.

I do not know of a single person in my medical school who can afford a cleaning service (except for the few parents in my class who pay their kids to do chores, I guess). A cleaning service for a medical student is just an absurd extravagance and completely unnecessary; just clean up your own messes.

I don't know of a single person who is spending more than like $15/day on food, and the top spenders are the people who insist on eating out at Chipotle or Jimmy John's for every meal. Some of my classmates are in a weekly meal prep/Instant Pot recipe group and they all brag about how they spend <$5/day on food. Beans/legumes and rice are vegetarian, a complete protein, endlessly versatile, and most importantly dirt cheap.

Aside from the mandatory items I listed above, I've been spending next to nothing since starting medical school. My cash flow has honestly never been better, because I simply don't have time or the energy to go shopping/barhopping/vacationing. Everyone in my school is broke as hell on paper, but we're also all way too busy to spend money.

 

[NegativeMargin]

Examples for medical school would be:

- Professional clothing/white coat attire. You need to have at least a week's worth of professional clothing built up by the time you hit M3, more if you don't want to have to do laundry/dry cleaning all the time. Building a professional wardrobe can be hundreds if not thousands of dollars if you choose to purchase all new clothing and accessories. You can spend substantially less if you buy secondhand, it's also more environmentally friendly to thrift.

- Reliable transportation for rotations. Factor in gas, insurance, parking, and maintenance.

- A decently powerful computer, if you don't already have one. Make sure it meets the technical specifications that your medical school requires of personal computers.

- Step 1 prep - this can be a few thousand if your school doesn't provide resources like Sketchy, UWorld, Boards & Beyond.

I do not know of a single person in my medical school who can afford a cleaning service (except for the few parents in my class who pay their kids to do chores, I guess). A cleaning service for a medical student is just an absurd extravagance and completely unnecessary; just clean up your own messes.

I don't know of a single person who is spending more than like $15/day on food, and the top spenders are the people who insist on eating out at Chipotle or Jimmy John's for every meal. Some of my classmates are in a weekly meal prep/Instant Pot recipe group and they all brag about how they spend <$5/day on food. Beans/legumes and rice are vegetarian, a complete protein, endlessly versatile, and most importantly dirt cheap.

Aside from the mandatory items I listed above, I've been spending next to nothing since starting medical school. My cash flow has honestly never been better, because I simply don't have time or the energy to go shopping/barhopping/vacationing. Everyone in my school is broke as hell on paper, but we're also all way too busy to spend money.

I’m a US citizen but not from one of the 48 contiguous states. I spent $12k on applying/ interviewing, and then about $4k moving myself and bunch of suitcases here. Shipping my car would have cost more than the $1900 I got for selling it when I moved here.

To be fair, I’d say that most students don’t have butlers or cleaning services. But there are a few special students who do. I guess I realized I was different the moment we arrived at orientation to pick up our orientation items. We had to option to order things like T shirts, caps, jackets, scrubs, etc etc. I just got a lap coat that I needed for anatomy, and 1 set of scrubs that I never needed. I thought I needed them.

1) don’t buy something unless you absolutely need it. Ask a few more people. No idea how old you are, but if you ask an older, married student with kids, you’d get a better idea of what’s a necessity/ luxury/ white elephant. Ie ask people with a concept of money. (I still don’t own any t shirts with my med school logo lol)

I actually have a better concept of money than many of my peers. I prioritize mental health. Eg. Pre-COVID, we all took notes on iPads and I was using a $10 Amazon stylus. My palm kept bumping it and I was miserable because I couldn’t take notes fast enough. I caved and got an Apple Pencil for $100. (Ok, I’m not exceeding poor because I took a ton of gap years, but I still don’t like surprise expenses). One day, I dropped mine and realized it when I was close to my friend’s place. I said that I’ll run back and get it and be back shortly. She said, “oh, we can amazon prime you one. It will be here tomorrow”. And I said, “I don’t have another $100 to get a new Apple Pencil”. Thank god it was where I dropped it when I was stuffing my backpack.

So during orientation for 3rd year, they made a slide about “good student” vs “bad student” and the slide said, “good students bring lunch”, “bad students are always hungry”. Gosh, the hypocrisy when they tell us that it’s not our patients fault when they make poor choices. So, as I was saying, I actually requested a couple of sites that were closer to home, but the person who collected our wishlist/ preferences for rotation, never turned it in to the person coordinating remote sites. So I ate breakfast so I can appear as a better student, and had dinner maybe 4-5 days a week and drank a ton of water because I was paying $50-60 a week on gas to get to my remote site. My car is old and keeps threatening to fall apart. But I hope it will make it still I get 2-3 residency paychecks.

2) don’t buy a crappy car. The lemon I got is one of the biggest regrets in my life. I’ve spent 3x the cost of the car fixing it in under 1.5 years. But trust me when I tell you that when you’re poor, you are forced to make poor decisions.

Yeah. I really don’t eat much. I think my body has adjusted. I lost 13lbs in a year. When I first started, there were free meals when interest groups wanted you to attend. So I got a few meals that way. When COVID hit, they gave all students a small grant, but they added it to my max out of pocket. So it didn’t really help me. My dean was sweet though, she offered to lend me money when they forgot to process my student loans. She’s one of the good ones. But when I told other students that they messed up my loans, they tell me that FA messes up everyone’s loans. Yes, but can you borrow from mom and dad? If you can, I have it worse.

3) pick a school that guarantees scholarships for all 4 years. Some people were only given scholarships for 1st year. Be careful of what’s written on your offer.

4) whatever school you get accepted at, seek “me” out. By me, I mean the person who gives zero f**ks and will tell you the good and bad. I’m not telling everyone to not come here. I’m telling the truth. There are many great things about my school. I’ve met a upperclassman who has graduated and will give me real advice and insight about how to navigate things. Sometimes I don’t know why I pay school fees, because most of the things I learned from faculty who are supposed to be teaching at my school has hurt me more than helped. (My school has great research opportunities, great volunteering opportunities, and there are faculty who care- just gotta seek them out.) so the question to ask is “what did you wish you knew about this school when you were in my position?)

it’s not in my personality to suck up and be a fake. But when I told a friend that I very recently learned that people who threw me under the bus and the biggest suck ups and dress just like their attendings, my friend said, “of course. That’s true in life though. You like people who are like you. And you help people who are like you”. They have decided to eat less so they can go play golf too. But anyhoo, it’s sad that I only realized this half way they 3rd year.

5) that’s why I said, if you want good grades, don’t let anyone know you’re poor. Don’t eat, and just look the part.

One day, when I’m an attending, I’ll donate a grant to a student who’s moving from somewhere other than the 48 states to get a decent enough car, esp if they got screw over by my school’s false advertising

Thank you both. One of the downsides of this virtual application cycle is not really getting to talk to current students in an open setting. Even in the optional Q&A's everyone's on their best behavior and they never say anything that could be misconstrued as being critical of the university, even if that's not their intention. As such, these sorts of open and honest opinions are some of the hardest to get. For non-trads like me who are no stranger to stumbling out of the starting blocks, information like this is invaluable, and I sincerely hope it informs on the decisions of the OP, or at the very least puts things into perspective for them.

Most of us are making allowances, and being surrounded by pre-meds 8-10 years younger than me I've seen this is a very hard skill for some people to learn. Yet another skill that does seem to disproportionally effect those that have lived their life under the poverty threshold, as one of the key elements of the circle of poverty is not knowing what to do when you come into a large sum of money. Thank you again for your opinions, please feel free to add anything else you think may help educate us.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

Lots of great advice for budgeting in medical school already posted here, but I'd like to add one thing. Keep fixed costs low. I lived on students loans and part-time jobs while in college, so I understand having a fixed income. I always rented the cheapest apartment I could find. This was a few years ago, but I never spend over $400 a month on rent. Share a place with roommates, just do whatever you can to keep rent low.

 

[Dr Meow]

The nonprofit DO schools should offer the entirety of federal loans. For me, taking the max out, I have 10K leftover per semester for food, material, clothes, and stuff. I've also always found the behavior of medical admissions suspicious. Lots of implicit arrogance. Spidey senses tingling at every corner.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

I've seen a few rare cases but I know one med student who easily spent $70/day on food (he posted all of it to snapchat). He had 3 siblings who do the same (only one other is in med). Dad is a well-known GI with multiple offices. I wouldn't be surprised if the dad was clearing $1.5m/year but that's like one in a million.

My cohort is more middle class than upper (I'd say 60/40 whereas the overall avg is closer to 85/15). Yet I still see many spend $5-$9/day on starbucks. It's $200/mo which isn't a big deal (and many have SOs with good jobs or just maxing out loans which is fine). Ultimately, it's up to each student to budget based on their wants, needs, and personal situation

I am intrigued at how one manages to get $70 worth of calories down their gullet every day and not weigh 500lbs. I am envisioning a lot of wine, cheese, steak, and seafood.

Ah yes, Starbucks. I forgot about Starbucks. This does seem to be a luxury that many of my classmates partake in on a regular basis, and I personally don’t understand it. Broke people should not be drinking Starbucks. But then again, neither should rich people. Or people that care about the way coffee tastes, because Starbucks is awful.

I will stop derailing the conversation with my unpopular fast food opinions now, lol.

 

[StarDancer]

Examples for medical school would be:

- Professional clothing/white coat attire. You need to have at least a week's worth of professional clothing on hand by the time you hit M3, more if you don't want to have to do laundry/dry cleaning all the time. Building a professional wardrobe can be hundreds if not thousands of dollars if you choose to purchase all new clothing and accessories. You can spend substantially less if you buy secondhand, it's also more environmentally friendly to thrift.

- Reliable transportation for rotations. Factor in gas, insurance, parking, and maintenance.

- A decently powerful computer, if you don't already have one. Make sure it meets the technical specifications that your medical school requires of personal computers.

- Step 1/2 prep - this can be a few thousand if your school doesn't provide resources like Sketchy, UWorld, Boards & Beyond.

I do not know of a single person in my medical school who can afford a cleaning service (except for the few parents in my class who pay their kids to do chores, I guess). A cleaning service for a medical student is just an absurd extravagance and completely unnecessary; just clean up your own messes.

I don't know of a single person who is spending more than like $15/day on food, and the top spenders are the people who insist on eating out at Chipotle or Jimmy John's for every meal. Some of my classmates are in a weekly meal prep/Instant Pot recipe group and they all brag about how they spend <$5/day on food. Beans/legumes and rice are vegetarian, a complete protein, endlessly versatile, and most importantly dirt cheap.

Aside from the mandatory items I listed above, I've been spending next to nothing since starting medical school. My cash flow has honestly never been better, because I simply don't have time or the energy to go shopping/barhopping/vacationing. Everyone in my school is broke as hell on paper, but we're also all way too busy to spend money.

Oh yeah. Professional clothes for sure.

My classmates do Hello Fresh! Or something like that. Maybe the COA where I am is higher. I think when the stats was run 2/3 of the class has at least 1 physician parent. Most have at least one parent with a graduate degree. I think 4 people are the first in their family to attend college. I’m one of them. Sometimes it works to my advantage, I think I got lucky on an oral exam after saying I’m a first gen from a blue collar family. I swear the questions I got were easier when we talked about the exam after. who knows…

But I also have had people who assume i don’t know a thing because I’m not pedigree. Oh yeah, we have tons of pedigrees at my school.

I seek out opportunities and there are doctors who like me because I try so hard and give me opportunities to do research etc. I’m thankful I have the opportunity, else I’d still be in my little pond. I’m just saying it is hard. And as long as you understand that life isn’t fair and you’ll just have to make lemonade and like lemonade, it will be worth it. And I’ve been lucky meeting the right mentors.

Medicine is a old boys club. Rich old boys?

I know I’m off topic. Just saying that it probably took me about 5 years to get the money and the hours to apply. But I cherish the opportunity to become a doctor. Probably a lot more than most of my classmates ever will.

 

[StarDancer]

I am intrigued at how one manages to get $70 worth of calories down their gullet every day and not weigh 500lbs. I am envisioning a lot of wine, cheese, steak, and seafood.

Ah yes, Starbucks. I forgot about Starbucks. This does seem to be a luxury that many of my classmates partake in on a regular basis, and I personally don’t understand it. Broke people should not be drinking Starbucks. But then again, neither should rich people. Or people that care about the way coffee tastes, because Starbucks is awful.

I will stop derailing the conversation with my unpopular fast food opinions now, lol.

Right? I know people who get it every morning. I treat myself to Starbucks maybe every 2 months, before an exam. That’s my self-care. Then again, I don’t exercise much and I’m skinny. No, it’s not genetics. Trust me. Lol.

 

[throwaway2222]

I wanted to know do you guys know if med schools are willing to overlook volunteering and other extracurriculars due to poverty? I find it a bit difficult to volunteer due to it costing me so much in gas money to do something for free on a regular basis. I often hear people say that med schools want to see you volunteer to show that you can be altruistic and understanding of others struggles. But am I allowed to bypass this stuff since I have personally lived through said hardships, and have pretty much lived my life going through these experiences? I will have about 60 hours of clinical volunteering, about 70 hours of nonclinical volunteering and about 22 hours shadowing by the time of summer.

Ok, annoyed language alert.

Schools do not cut slack for situations like yours but they really should. This is THE reason why poor kids are biased against in the admissions process, and neither medicine nor society is better for it.

Which is complete bull. Because I for one would take a kid who served as their family member’s de factor CNA/case manager/whatever and has first hand experience handling meds, bedpans, and navigating the cluster that is the medical system than a privileged kid who worked a volunteer gig that consisted of greeting people at a desk, restocking towels and breezing in to play cards or read the newspaper to a patient for 30 minutes. Because everyone knows that most volunteer gigs are fluff and BS and they don’t give volunteers anything real to do because of liability and confidentiality or whatever. I think between my two examples it’s pretty clear who has the better idea of what it’s like to put in long hours and be responsible for another human being.

In practice, I do think that having clinical employment can be an excellent substitute for volunteering and that is the route every financially limited applicant should take. You’ve gotten a decent amount of advice on that already on this thread. Clinical and clinical auxiliary jobs such as CNA, PCA (personal care attendant), group home staffer, and scribe have fairly low barriers to entry. Even a receptionist at a clinic is fine because it’s patient facing and more representative of the interactions and responsibilities you might have with patients than some fluffy volunteer gig—you’ll get people calling with their problems and be responsible for managing their distress, gathering basic info and helping figure out how to get their needs met. In fact, depending on your exact relationship, if you already take care of a family member who is sick, you can register as their PCA and get paid for it—not sure of the details but I’ve seen patients’ families do this. But a job in an actual clinic or hospital setting is best because you get to understand the BS of healthcare systems and know if *that* is something you are ready to get into.

Oh, and if you have experience as a caregiver outside of any formal setting, write about it in your personal statement and make the most of it. This is non negotiable. I firmly believe that that is what got me into medical school back in the day, since that is what I got the most questions about at interviews, and made for the most interesting talking points.

Now go get them. We need people like you on medicine even if if the odds are stacked against you.

 

[LizzyM]

I know this isn't everyone so I don't intend to generalize but I know a lot of "connected" students who exaggerated their hours 5-6x fold or just made up activities in the 100s of hours (volunteer, shadowing doctors, non-profits) because they had so many friends and relatives in healthcare (attendings, nurses, etc) willing to vouch for them. Not hard to fake when you also have professional interviewing/coaching.So I agree with you that someone who is poor and had to translate documents for their parents (immigrants or disabled) and essentially serve as their case manager should be considered relevant experience

And I find great joy in sniffing them out and making sure that they are never admitted to my school. I'm just one person and sure, people might slip through who are liars. Don't become a liar to try to beat them at their own game.

 

[throwaway2222]

I know this isn't everyone so I don't intend to generalize but I know a lot of "connected" students who exaggerated their hours 5-6x fold or just made up activities in the 100s of hours (volunteer, shadowing doctors, non-profits) because they had so many friends and relatives in healthcare (attendings, nurses, etc) willing to vouch for them. Not hard to fake when you also have professional interviewing/coaching.So I agree with you that someone who is poor and had to translate documents for their parents (immigrants or disabled) and essentially serve as their case manager should be considered relevant experience

Honestly, I’m not on an adcom but I think clinical experience whether it’s volunteer, formal, or informal employment should all work in your favor. I don’t think they would cut “poor” kids slack for not having volunteership just because they are poor, but if they have other relevant experience that can serve as a substitute, why not have it count?