Do orthos pay a commission for referrals for treatment like braces or Invisalign? If so, what is a fair commission?
Do Orthos Pay a Commission for Referrals?
- Thread starter rushindo
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No you do not pay for referrals as that would be unethical. But if you are a referring office during the year and especially at Christmas you usually will receive some nice stuff like fruit baskets and restaurant gift cards. I referred to the doctors who I knew would do the best job for my patient. If they do a poor job on your patient it will reflect badly on you as well.
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NAVY DDS 2010
It this unethical, most definitely. Does this happen? Everyone here would be extremely ignorant to actually believe this does not occur. There are locations where orthodontists have saturated the market. To think that they don't entice dentists to send patients their way would be very foolish to believe. Yes, they may give gift baskets and gift certificates which one might call a thank you, but I am fairly certain their is some under the table giving gonig on out their. Do I have proof? No. Yes, I am making an unsubstantiated claim, BUT there is plenty of proof out there that shows that there are shady deals and under the table benefits given to a lot of sucessful businesses. When we can be assured that all forms of businesses start living by ethical business standards, then I will believe that Orthodontists (as well as any other dental specialist or dental labs) aren't giving special pay to the general dentists for sending business theri way.
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It's more than just unethical, in many (all?) places it's illegal under anti-kickback laws.
Can someone kindly explain why this practice is unethical and why you cannot take a $500 kickback from a specialist but you can accept 3 or 5 fancy meals at $60 a pop + a $200 gift basket at the end out the year. quite frankly - it does not make sense.
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Because one can be reasonably described as a gesture of overall appreciation for a positive business relationship, and the other is a one-for-one payoff that basically amounts to patient scalping. You don't have to like the law, you just have to adhere to it.
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GP -Specialist "gift" issues/happenings
As a GP, I usually have lunch with not just the orthodontist I refer too (and yes in my case it's basically singular as there is 1 local orthodontist to my office and the others are all 20+ miles away), but most all specialists I refer to a couple of times a year. How that usually happens is the specialist will call me up and say "are you available for lunch next Monday so we can discuss Mrs. X's case??" A couple of the specialists I refer to will also (around christmastime usually as forementioned) send over a food based gift basket (that my staff usually devours in about an hour
), the local endo group also has a couple of raffles a year that they open up to referring docs (and their staff members) for their office owned tickets to New England Patriots or Boston Red Sox games, and once or twice a year, the oral surgeon who places the majority of implants for my business partner and I will take us golfing at the course he belongs to, and he's also offered if we want to (and we haven't taken him up on the offer in the past) a chance to go down to Miami for the weekend for a weekend of CE (and maybe a beverage or two ) at the 3i implant facilities down there.
The bottomline for *most* GP's is that you're going to make a referral to a specialist not because of a meal or some other item, but because that specialist is both treating your patients with dependable, high level care and in a manor as to how you'd like your patients to be treated. Since most of the time, if there's a problem with either of those things, YOU as the GP are going to hear about it for YEARS to come. If you've got a specialist for who most of his/her referrals come as a result of "kickbacks" and/or "buying" of patients from a GP, well then chances are that specialist will end up sooner than later annoying the GP enough via the questions about work quality that the referrals will dry up from that doc.
As a GP, I usually have lunch with not just the orthodontist I refer too (and yes in my case it's basically singular as there is 1 local orthodontist to my office and the others are all 20+ miles away), but most all specialists I refer to a couple of times a year. How that usually happens is the specialist will call me up and say "are you available for lunch next Monday so we can discuss Mrs. X's case??" A couple of the specialists I refer to will also (around christmastime usually as forementioned) send over a food based gift basket (that my staff usually devours in about an hour
), the local endo group also has a couple of raffles a year that they open up to referring docs (and their staff members) for their office owned tickets to New England Patriots or Boston Red Sox games, and once or twice a year, the oral surgeon who places the majority of implants for my business partner and I will take us golfing at the course he belongs to, and he's also offered if we want to (and we haven't taken him up on the offer in the past) a chance to go down to Miami for the weekend for a weekend of CE (and maybe a beverage or two ) at the 3i implant facilities down there.The bottomline for *most* GP's is that you're going to make a referral to a specialist not because of a meal or some other item, but because that specialist is both treating your patients with dependable, high level care and in a manor as to how you'd like your patients to be treated. Since most of the time, if there's a problem with either of those things, YOU as the GP are going to hear about it for YEARS to come. If you've got a specialist for who most of his/her referrals come as a result of "kickbacks" and/or "buying" of patients from a GP, well then chances are that specialist will end up sooner than later annoying the GP enough via the questions about work quality that the referrals will dry up from that doc.
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Let me make this simple for you:
You take out a beautiful woman to an expensive restaurant and order an expensive bottle of wine. Then you take her to her favorite ballet where you have bought some expensive seats. Later on in gratitude for the wonderful evening she has sex with you (or maybe she gives you a peck on the cheek and you go home and look at porn on the internet - TOTALLY LEGAL
You pull up to a street corner and ask a lady to hop in your car and you pay her to have sex with you - illegal
If may seem like a fine nuance but that is how it works
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Hahahaha This is CLASSIC! tag this response so that trollers can laugh for years to come!
Let me make this simple for you:
You take out a beautiful woman to an expensive restaurant and order an expensive bottle of wine. Then you take her to her favorite ballet where you have bought some expensive seats. Later on in gratitude for the wonderful evening she has sex with you (or maybe she gives you a peck on the cheek and you go home and look at porn on the internet - TOTALLY LEGAL
You pull up to a street corner and ask a lady to hop in your car and you pay her to have sex with you - illegal
If may seem like a fine nuance but that is how it works
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Let me make this simple for you:
You take out a beautiful woman to an expensive restaurant and order an expensive bottle of wine. Then you take her to her favorite ballet where you have bought some expensive seats. Later on in gratitude for the wonderful evening she has sex with you (or maybe she gives you a peck on the cheek and you go home and look at porn on the internet - TOTALLY LEGAL
You pull up to a street corner and ask a lady to hop in your car and you pay her to have sex with you - illegal
If may seem like a fine nuance but that is how it works
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GP -Specialist "gift" issues/happenings
As a GP, I usually have lunch with not just the orthodontist I refer too (and yes in my case it's basically singular as there is 1 local orthodontist to my office and the others are all 20+ miles away), but most all specialists I refer to a couple of times a year. How that usually happens is the specialist will call me up and say "are you available for lunch next Monday so we can discuss Mrs. X's case??" A couple of the specialists I refer to will also (around christmastime usually as forementioned) send over a food based gift basket (that my staff usually devours in about an hour
The bottomline for *most* GP's is that you're going to make a referral to a specialist not because of a meal or some other item, but because that specialist is both treating your patients with dependable, high level care and in a manor as to how you'd like your patients to be treated. Since most of the time, if there's a problem with either of those things, YOU as the GP are going to hear about it for YEARS to come. If you've got a specialist for who most of his/her referrals come as a result of "kickbacks" and/or "buying" of patients from a GP, well then chances are that specialist will end up sooner than later annoying the GP enough via the questions about work quality that the referrals will dry up from that doc.
Im no DDS, JD, but in California (and presumably most states) it is NOT illegal buy your dental colleague friends birthday gifts that may amount to check or cash in any amount one pleases. I dont condone referral compensation but yet it is only proper for the specialist or GP to "say thanks" to the reffering doc for the business provided. This is probably more necessary in the saturated metro areas, LA, NY, SLC, etc. That said, it is not a driving factor in referral decision, but more or less a "tax" of the specialist for receiving the referral.
