Do people at your school hide what specialty they are interested in?

[nauru]

I'm just wondering if it's common for people to hide what specialty they are pursuing or interested in during 3rd year. Why do this?

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[libertyyne]

I'm just wondering if it's common for people to hide what specialty they are pursuing or interested in during 3rd year. Why do this?

People dont hide usually, they are usually just unsure or still undecided.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I'm just wondering if it's common for people to hide what specialty they are pursuing or interested in during 3rd year. Why do this?

The people gunning for the classic gunner specialities tend to be a bit more low key about it where I went. I think this was mostly for fear of not wanting to look arrogant to classmates or seem disinterested to attendings.

I remember on medicine I had a teammate who was gung-ho ortho. But when the attending asked what he was going into he just said “something surgical, I haven’t decided yet.” The minute you’re say you’re shooting for ortho/NSG/derm/plastics/optho etc, they’ll see every move you make as pandering and grade grubbing.

With fellow students, just making any decisive claim to want to do a hyper-competitive speciality before having step1 back just sounds cocky.

 

[deleted889094]

People at my school are straightforward about it. Could be the P/F unranked system making people feel more at ease.

 

[FindersFee5]

The people gunning for the classic gunner specialities tend to be a bit more low key about it where I went. I think this was mostly for fear of not wanting to look arrogant to classmates or seem disinterested to attendings.

I remember on medicine I had a teammate who was gung-ho ortho. But when the attending asked what he was going into he just said “something surgical, I haven’t decided yet.” The minute you’re say you’re shooting for ortho/NSG/derm/plastics/optho etc, they’ll see every move you make as pandering and grade grubbing.

With fellow students, just making any decisive claim to want to do a hyper-competitive speciality before having step1 back just sounds cocky.

Definitely agree on the hedging before step 1 thing. After that though, I think trying to be vague about it is just kind of annoying and egotistical (See: People who went to Harvard saying "I went to school in Boston"). I'm going for a surgical sub, and after I had my surgery rotation and was confident in that decision, I always told people the real answer when they asked. I never felt like I got any pushback about it.

 

[FalconSlice]

Definitely agree on the hedging before step 1 thing. After that though, I think trying to be vague about it is just kind of annoying and egotistical (See: People who went to Harvard saying "I went to school in Boston"). I'm going for a surgical sub, and after I had my surgery rotation and was confident in that decision, I always told people the real answer when they asked. I never felt like I got any pushback about it.

Assuming plastics given your Limberg flap picture?

 

[DameJulie]

Most people are pretty straightforward about what specialty they want, since they probably worked in similar specialties before med school.

The ones that annoy me are the people who won't let everyone in the class forget that they are going to be a successful private practice dermatologist on the coast.

 

[sovereign0]

Honestly, it's warranted a lot of the time.

In MS1/2 people hedge their interests until they have a step 1 score to make sure it's viable. People tend to "label" other med students with their specialty and it's embarrassing to be "that ortho guy" but then you get a 230 on step 1 and everyone knows you didn't score what you wanted. Still happens, but most people try to avoid that.

In MS3, your evaluators will 100% grade and judge you based on what you say. Outpatient specialties will judge surgical specialists and surgical subspecialists will judge outpatient specialties. It affects evals.

 

[Chelsea FC]

People normally hide if they are interested in something competitive. Prob to save face if they dont hit the step score they need.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I told everyone (residents/attndgs) I was doing EM during the clinical years. Usually that just garnered a bunch of “let me tell you what those ER monkey people do that really pisses me off!”

 

[Dox4lyfe]

Definitely agree on the hedging before step 1 thing. After that though, I think trying to be vague about it is just kind of annoying and egotistical (See: People who went to Harvard saying "I went to school in Boston"). I'm going for a surgical sub, and after I had my surgery rotation and was confident in that decision, I always told people the real answer when they asked. I never felt like I got any pushback about it.

I think the Harvard thing is a bad example because the opposite would be viewed as annoying/egotistical (ie. the student bragging that they went to Harvard). I went to a similarly ranked school and always told people the city I went to school in as well because I didn't want to be labelled as the "Harvard" or "Yale" guy which a lot of people end up doing.

Also, if someone doesn't want to tell you what they're interested in then just leave them alone? Everyone falls on a spectrum on how open they are with certain things. They're clearly being vague because they don't want you to know for xyz reason as others have stated. I'm sure the people that do need to know or the people they're comfortable telling DO know.

I'd start calling it annoying/egotistical when it's nearing residency app time and they're not worried about how they'll be evaluated during MS3 rotations anymore and know exactly how competitive their application is for their desired specialty.

 

[Tenk]

I hated this but even worse were the tools that said they wanted to go into whatever specialty they were rotating on just so they could feign interest.

 

[Pluto98]

I think the Harvard thing is a bad example because the opposite would be viewed as annoying/egotistical (ie. the student bragging that they went to Harvard). I went to a similarly ranked school and always told people the city I went to school in as well because I didn't want to be labelled as the "Harvard" or "Yale" guy which a lot of people end up doing.

Also, if someone doesn't want to tell you what they're interested in then just leave them alone? Everyone falls on a spectrum on how open they are with certain things. They're clearly being vague because they don't want you to know for xyz reason as others have stated. I'm sure the people that do need to know or the people they're comfortable telling DO know.

I'd start calling it annoying/egotistical when it's nearing residency app time and they're not worried about how they'll be evaluated during MS3 rotations anymore and know exactly how competitive their application is for their desired specialty.

Out of curiosity which students have you traditionally seen hide where they are from a la "i go to school in boston"....?

 

[FindersFee5]

I think the Harvard thing is a bad example because the opposite would be viewed as annoying/egotistical (ie. the student bragging that they went to Harvard). I went to a similarly ranked school and always told people the city I went to school in as well because I didn't want to be labelled as the "Harvard" or "Yale" guy which a lot of people end up doing.

Also, if someone doesn't want to tell you what they're interested in then just leave them alone? Everyone falls on a spectrum on how open they are with certain things. They're clearly being vague because they don't want you to know for xyz reason as others have stated. I'm sure the people that do need to know or the people they're comfortable telling DO know.

I'd start calling it annoying/egotistical when it's nearing residency app time and they're not worried about how they'll be evaluated during MS3 rotations anymore and know exactly how competitive their application is for their desired specialty.

See, the first paragraph is the egotistical part - people think it's SO special that they went to Harvard that they "don't want to JUST be the Harvard guy". If somebody outright asks where you went to school, then you should tell them without trying to be fake humble about it. Similarly, people who think it's so special that they're applying to derm or ortho that they act intentionally vague about it seem much more egotistical than somebody who just outright says "I'm going to apply to ortho" when asked.

 

[longhaul3]

I think the Harvard thing is a bad example because the opposite would be viewed as annoying/egotistical (ie. the student bragging that they went to Harvard). I went to a similarly ranked school and always told people the city I went to school in as well because I didn't want to be labelled as the "Harvard" or "Yale" guy which a lot of people end up doing.

Eh. You've gotta own it and just answer the question when someone asks. Otherwise you turn into Toofer from 30 Rock.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Eh. You've gotta own it and just answer the question when someone asks. Otherwise you turn into Toofer from 30 Rock.

Or maybe you don’t want everyone knowing your business or stereotyping you based on the specialty you’re interested in.

 

[TwistedTea]

Most people were normal about what they wanted to go into and no one cared

that being said, we did have one guy in our class who was probably the most obnoxious person on the planet and let everyone know he wanted to do plastics. He would bash other specialties and say things like “oh I’m going to practice family med when I retire from plastic” on our group page. (Yeah ok bro Bc primary care is just something you can do after not doing it for 30 years). He did bad on boards, rubbed preceptors the wrong way, and spent 10s of thousands auditioning at places he would have no shot at. I don’t even think he applied GS back up and if he did it was at places he had no chance at.

He soaped into a surg prelim at a terrible place since he did not know his limitations.

otherwise people were pretty normal. He got what he had coming.

 

[slowthai]

See, the first paragraph is the egotistical part - people think it's SO special that they went to Harvard that they "don't want to JUST be the Harvard guy". If somebody outright asks where you went to school, then you should tell them without trying to be fake humble about it. Similarly, people who think it's so special that they're applying to derm or ortho that they act intentionally vague about it seem much more egotistical than somebody who just outright says "I'm going to applying to ortho" when asked.

Honestly, I'm not seeing the egotistical angle here. Some people just don't like being put into a box. When you say you're the Harvard kid, people start to make assumptions about your decisions and actions based solely on that, and not on who you are as a person. I imagine that that can be very annoying.

With the derm/ortho thing, I think it's different. You're aiming for something prestigious and high expectations from others come with it. This has its own issues if you fail to make it, or get a substandard step score, like others have pointed out.

 

[7331poas]

I mean, you don't owe people an explanation of your career goals. Just tell people you are undecided and move on.

 

[longhaul3]

Or maybe you don’t want everyone knowing your business or stereotyping you based on the specialty you’re interested in.

I was talking about the Harvard/Boston thing. I agree with you about the specialty question.

I understand not wanting to say "Harvard" because people will look at you differently, but if you say "Boston" then the next question is "oh, which school?" and you still have to say it, plus they infer that you thought they couldn't handle hearing that you went to Harvard.

 

[nauru]

Interesting range of views! I can totally understand saying a version of 'undecided' to attendings, who in some cases will judge/evaluate you based on how you answer. I guess I was thinking more in terms of conversations with classmates.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I was talking about the Harvard/Boston thing. I agree with you about the specialty question.

I understand not wanting to say "Harvard" because people will look at you differently, but if you say "Boston" then the next question is "oh, which school?" and you still have to say it, plus they infer that you thought they couldn't handle hearing that you went to Harvard.

I do know one person who goes there, and he doesn’t like to say the name of the school because he is afraid people will think he’s bragging.

 

[PhillyMed777]

Im a Derm resident and I tried to hide what I was going into. I would do it again. Every attending during clerkships pretty much loved working with me and if I told them I was going into Derm I’d universally get a frown and a sarcastic comment. They don’t deserve to know the truth, don’t tell them.

 

[Scrubs101]

When I was an M1-M2 I knew pretty well that I wanted something competitive, but would constantly try and convince myself I wanted something less competitive due to the fear of going all in on something that may not turn out and come M4 everyone would think “oh he matched x? I thought he wanted y? Must have not done well enough”. Which realistically was just me caring too much about what other people think.

not to mention when you do own up to it the usual conversation goes something like this:
“So what specialty are you thinking?”
“*insert competitive specialty*”
“Ohhhhhh you know thats really competitive right?!”

-_- no i didnt know that, it’s actually only on my mind 10-12 times a day when im busy convincing myself im not good enough

 

[FindersFee5]

I do know one person who goes there, and he doesn’t like to say the name of the school because he is afraid people will think he’s bragging.

It's not bragging if somebody asks you. Sure, if you're bringing it up all the time it's obnoxious. But if somebody point blank asks "Where'd you go to school?", it's more annoying to try to hide it.

I was talking about the Harvard/Boston thing. I agree with you about the specialty question.

I understand not wanting to say "Harvard" because people will look at you differently, but if you say "Boston" then the next question is "oh, which school?" and you still have to say it, plus they infer that you thought they couldn't handle hearing that you went to Harvard.

This exactly.

 

[throwaway1000000]

Most people were normal about what they wanted to go into and no one cared

that being said, we did have one guy in our class who was probably the most obnoxious person on the planet and let everyone know he wanted to do plastics. He would bash other specialties and say things like “oh I’m going to practice family med when I retire from plastic” on our group page. (Yeah ok bro Bc primary care is just something you can do after not doing it for 30 years). He did bad on boards, rubbed preceptors the wrong way, and spent 10s of thousands auditioning at places he would have no shot at. I don’t even think he applied GS back up and if he did it was at places he had no chance at.

He soaped into a surg prelim at a terrible place since he did not know his limitations.

otherwise people were pretty normal. He got what he had coming.

These were the funniest. Some people saying from day 1 they wanted to do neurosurgery, ortho, cardiothoracic surgery and by the time M3 rolled around, they changed either due to step score or something else.
I think it's all how you say it. Some people were just obnoxious about it.

 

[Lawpy]

I mean, you don't owe people an explanation of your career goals. Just tell people you are undecided and move on.

This is what i was thinking so i don't know why some on SDN are pressuring people to reveal their specialty interests?

 

[TwistedTea]

These were the funniest. Some people saying from day 1 they wanted to do neurosurgery, ortho, cardiothoracic surgery and by the time M3 rolled around, they changed either due to step score or something else.
I think it's all how you say it. Some people were just obnoxious about it.

Yeah I agree. Nothing wrong about going into any specialty. Just don’t bash other ones. Especially when you aren’t even good

 

[slowthai]

I was talking about the Harvard/Boston thing. I agree with you about the specialty question.

I understand not wanting to say "Harvard" because people will look at you differently, but if you say "Boston" then the next question is "oh, which school?" and you still have to say it, plus they infer that you thought they couldn't handle hearing that you went to Harvard.

Couldnthandleit: So which school do you go to?
Me: I go to a school in Boston.
Couldnthandleit: Which one?
Me: Uh...I go to-
Couldnthandleit: Harvard???
Me: Nnnn-yes
Couldnthandleit: OMG, you must be so rich, and a genius, can you pay for my school, you're so cool, how did you get into Harvard, what's it like asdfdsadkjljfdas

Me:

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It's not bragging if somebody asks you. Sure, if you're bringing it up all the time it's obnoxious. But if somebody point blank asks "Where'd you go to school?", it's more annoying to try to hide it.

Huh. It’s almost like it’s a subjective matter and that different people will feel differently about it.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

These were the funniest. Some people saying from day 1 they wanted to do neurosurgery, ortho, cardiothoracic surgery and by the time M3 rolled around, they changed either due to step score or something else.
I think it's all how you say it. Some people were just obnoxious about it.

I tell people it varies moment to moment.

 

[EmilKraepelin55]

Almost every male student I asked first year at my brand new DO school was going into Ortho. We are about to take boards over the next couple of months now, so if that still holds true then the amount of disappointment will be quite palpable very soon.

 

[longhaul3]

Couldnthandleit: So which school do you go to?
Me: I go to a school in Boston.
Couldnthandleit: Which one?
Me: Uh...I go to-
Couldnthandleit: Harvard???
Me: Nnnn-yes
Couldnthandleit: OMG, you must be so rich, and a genius, can you pay for my school, you're so cool, how did you get into Harvard, what's it like asdfdsadkjljfdas

This is pretty realistic honestly. My point is that it's better not to beat around the bush and act coy knowing you're going to say it either way.

 

[deleted889094]

This is pretty realistic honestly. My point is that it's better not to beat around the bush and act coy knowing you're going to say it either way.

But it's not purely around the end result. There is a huge difference between the person who wants to announce something about themselves and the person who doesn't want an interaction to be colored by one small detail. If you've been engaged before, you know how tiring it is to get the EXACT SAME QUESTIONS every time someone finds out. You just stop bringing it up.

 

[longhaul3]

But it's not purely around the end result. There is a huge difference between the person who wants to announce something about themselves and the person who doesn't want an interaction to be colored by one small detail. If you've been engaged before, you know how tiring it is to get the EXACT SAME QUESTIONS every time someone finds out. You just stop bringing it up.

Oh, totally. I never bring it up, not only because I don't want to talk about it, but also because I don't want to be the guy who brings it up. It still comes up, though, and over the years I've learned to just answer the question and get on with it.

Same goes for specialty choice. The guy who goes around telling everyone he's going to be a cardioplastic surgeon is obnoxious. When he's asked about it, though, I don't think we should consider it obnoxious for him to answer honestly if he wants to. But in this case, you can say "something surgical" or "not sure yet" without being disingenuous.

Edit: Oh, did you mean engaged to be married? When I was engaged we never really brought that up either except to tell our friends and family. But we still frequently got questions about it, and yeah, they were tiresome, but what can you do except answer them?

 

[deleted889094]

Oh, totally. I never bring it up, not only because I don't want to talk about it, but also because I don't want to be the guy who brings it up. It still comes up, though, and over the years I've learned to just answer the question and get on with it.

Same goes for specialty choice. The guy who goes around telling everyone he's going to be a cardioplastic surgeon is obnoxious. When he's asked about it, though, I don't think we should consider it obnoxious for him to answer honestly if he wants to. But in this case, you can say "something surgical" or "not sure yet" without being disingenuous.

Edit: Oh, did you mean engaged to be married? When I was engaged we never really brought that up either except to tell our friends and family. But we still frequently got questions about it, and yeah, they were tiresome, but what can you do except answer them?

Oh, I guess we are in agreement here lol

Yeah, I think I just started to avoid the situations with acquaintances though. I just got a bit tired of repetitive small talk

 

[Goro]

I'm just wondering if it's common for people to hide what specialty they are pursuing or interested in during 3rd year. Why do this?

I think my kids are pretty open about what they want.

Imagine their surprise when the OR gunner suddenly discover they LIKE happy kids and then go for Peds.

Or those that discover they really hate the idea of Peds once they encounter screaming kids.

Life sometimes surprises the hell out of all of us, so y'all keep an open mind.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

When I was an M1-M2 I knew pretty well that I wanted something competitive, but would constantly try and convince myself I wanted something less competitive due to the fear of going all in on something that may not turn out and come M4 everyone would think “oh he matched x? I thought he wanted y? Must have not done well enough”. Which realistically was just me caring too much about what other people think.

not to mention when you do own up to it the usual conversation goes something like this:
“So what specialty are you thinking?”
“*insert competitive specialty*”
“Ohhhhhh you know thats really competitive right?!”

-_- no i didnt know that, it’s actually only on my mind 10-12 times a day when im busy convincing myself im not good enough

Oh man, this sounds like me almost every day. Especially so after doing a block of UW lmao

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

I’ll be an M1 in August and I’m leaning towards the surgical side of medicine. As of right now my top choice is most likely orthopaedics, but staying open to all other surgical and non surgical specialties for that matter. I will most certainly remain low key about my interest in ortho because I don’t want to come off as gunnerish.

 

[slowthai]

I’ll be an M1 in August and I’m leaning towards the surgical side of medicine. As of right now my top choice is most likely orthopaedics, but staying open to all other surgical and non surgical specialties for that matter. I will most certainly remain low key about my interest in ortho because I don’t want to come off as gunnerish.

Honestly, just saying you want ortho doesn't make you gunnerish. What people hate is being annoying about it, like the ones that announce every day of the week that "I'm pre-ortho. I started reading FA before classes started" Like shut up, no one cares lol. You can gun hard for these fields without being irritating.

Also, a gunner is someone that tries to spread misinformation or do things to screw other people over in order to get ahead. It's not someone that just works really hard or is obnoxious about wanting a competitive specialty.

 

[samac]

So I was careful what preceptors I told what as someone going into psych. My first rotation after psych I had an internal doc write me off completely when I said that was my interest and it was reflected on my only mediocre Eval through 3rd-4th year. From that point forward all the old school docs I told I was undecided and the younger ones I told the truth. It worked out for me and was sad I needed to do that, but ya know you do what ya gotta do.

 

[deleted889094]

Honestly, just saying you want ortho doesn't make you gunnerish. What people hate is being annoying about it, like the ones that announce every day of the week that "I'm pre-ortho. I started reading FA before classes started" Like shut up, no one cares lol. You can gun hard for these fields without being irritating.

Also, a gunner is someone that tries to spread misinformation or do things to screw other people over in order to get ahead. It's not someone that just works really hard or is obnoxious about wanting a competitive specialty.

Yeah, exactly this. A guy in my class was talking about how he scored some research that would count for Ortho, derm, and optho. Loudly.

 

[DNC127]

Told people ortho all along. No regrets.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Throughout all my rotations I was upfront about basically being surgery or bust (and by this point I had been through like medicine and peds and ob and more) and when I finally got to my surgery rotation, my intern (who was an off service rotator) was like “are you just saying that because you’re in surgery right now” and I’m just like :| are you kidding me

I was pretty happy overall being up front about it though. My medicine residents were great and tried to tailor teaching towards surgically relevant things as much as possible (and like giving me liver transplant patients or GI bleeders), my peds residents gave me neurosurgical or peds-CT patients to follow, and I got some extra OR time on OB. I think the only rotation where it may have negatively affected my evals was psych (and it’s probably more likely that I was just a bad med student on psych lol).

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

So I was careful what preceptors I told what as someone going into psych. My first rotation after psych I had an internal doc write me off completely when I said that was my interest and it was reflected on my only mediocre Eval through 3rd-4th year. From that point forward all the old school docs I told I was undecided and the younger ones I told the truth. It worked out for me and was sad I needed to do that, but ya know you do what ya gotta do.

Embrace your inner Machiavelli! In each new rotation, say that you are undecided, but you find THIS specialty oh-so interesting. You want the Residents/fellows/attendings to think that you are the naive, easily-influenced med student who could be potentially converted by their clinical acumen (lol). This will make them put in extra effort to make their specialty seem cool to you. Their increased investment in your education will make them like you more. Them liking you more = better evaluation.

Play the game...

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

Embrace your inner Machiavelli! In each new rotation, say that you are undecided, but you find THIS specialty oh-so interesting. You want the Residents/fellows/attendings to think that you are the naive, easily-influenced med student who could be potentially converted by their clinical acumen (lol). This will make them put in extra effort to make their specialty seem cool to you. Their increased investment in your education will make them like you more. Them liking you more = better evaluation.

Play the game...

You were a psych major

 

[samac]

Embrace your inner Machiavelli! In each new rotation, say that you are undecided, but you find THIS specialty oh-so interesting. You want the Residents/fellows/attendings to think that you are the naive, easily-influenced med student who could be potentially converted by their clinical acumen (lol). This will make them put in extra effort to make their specialty seem cool to you. Their increased investment in your education will make them like you more. Them liking you more = better evaluation.

Play the game...

I'm free now.

For people interested in IM/EM/Family I don't think there is any issue with telling exactly what you're interested in because it all applies. If youre going niche be careful with that because they may look at you like you're wasting their time (just the old docs from my experience but heh)

 

[Newyawk]

Just say youre still undecided but found X, Y, Z interesting. Key being X, Y, Z are related to the field youre rotating through but not the field itself so it doesnt look like pandering.

 

[Neopolymath]

I won't look down on someone who lies about this. I can certainly see situations in which a student might lie and it doesn't affect me so why should I care? I have definitely witnessed the effects of students saying that they are pursuing radiology and surgery negatively affecting their rotation experience and feedback.

There isn't a right answer though, IMO. I had no problems being firm about what I wanted to do but I brought it 100% every day and knew my **** third year and was congenial. I knew I would face extra scrutiny in some situations. This is true for any field you choose. There is certainly luck involved (much like grades) but I don't think you get that kind of leeway if you say radiology on your FM rotation and aren't a good student. They are going to think you are performing poorly because you think FM is stupid and are uninterested which is far worse than just seeming like a weak student. That's a deathknell for your evaluation and for how you are treated on the rotation. Put effort in and the effects will be minimal even with the old attendings.

 

[FindersFee5]

I won't look down on someone who lies about this. I can certainly see situations in which a student might lie and it doesn't affect me so why should I care? I have definitely witnessed the effects of students saying that they are pursuing radiology and surgery negatively affecting their rotation experience and feedback.

There isn't a right answer though, IMO. I had no problems being firm about what I wanted to do but I brought it 100% every day and knew my **** third year and was congenial. I knew I would face extra scrutiny in some situations. This is true for any field you choose. There is certainly luck involved (much like grades) but I don't think you get that kind of leeway if you say radiology on your FM rotation and aren't a good student. They are going to think you are performing poorly because you think FM is stupid and are uninterested which is far worse than just seeming like a weak student. That's a deathknell for your evaluation and for how you are treated on the rotation. Put effort in and the effects will be minimal even with the old attendings.

I definitely agree with this. It doesn't matter if you're interested in derm if you're the strongest student on your neurology rotation and a generally friendly good person to work with.