DO residencies

[birdflysatnite]

Are there osteopathic residencies in surgery?

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[Winged Scapula]

Sure.

 

[docorange04]

Sometimes I wonder if people who are applying to DO programs actually know what the hell they are doing. Of course there are DO surgery residencies. There are DO residencies in EVERYTHING. You guys should research the profession a little more before you start asking dumb questions. What were you expecting to hear, "No, there are only DO residencies in Family Med. and OMM"?

 

[birdflysatnite]

JDG, to put it simply: you are piece of ****. Maybe you should research what being a doctor entails, before you run your mouth like an idiot and show everyone how pig-headed you are. I have found many, many helpful and kind people that go out of their way to assist others on this site. I have also found the typical egotisical, pretentious, pompous bastards that all professions have. You are one of these people. I thought about PCOM, but maybe I was wrong if this is the type of person they matriculate in their school. Although, this can't be because I know some great people that go to PCOM, so it must just be that you are a bad apple. I think in some way I hurt your precious self-esteem by asking a question dealing with osteopathy. Maybe you should lower your defenses and realize that I wasn't taking a hit at D.O.'s and that not everyone can be as brilliant and as informed as you. I commend you on your demeanor and how you represent PCOM! This is said in a sarcastic tone, BUT I'M SURE YOU KNEW THAT.

 

[birdflysatnite]

P.S. Judging from your attitude, you don't seem much like a people person. Maybe you should consider a field like radiology, although I think something like PROCTOLOGY would fit you perfectly.

 

[doughboy]

Yeah, of course there are DO residencies in a lot of fields. But the problem is that there aren't that many positions available. Plus, I don't think the surgery residencies are the best compared to the MD residencies.

 

[docorange04]

You know, I knew I was going to take crap for posting that after I wrote it! If I offended anyone, sorry. By the way bird, that was pretty eloquent. How old are you, 19, maybe 20? Even though I blasted you with my post (sorry again!), I didn't have to break out the really offensive language. Talk about representing your school, I'm sure you make LECOM proud with that mouth. Again, sorry to everyone that you had to see this.

 

[mj]

Originally posted by birdflysatnite:
•JDG, to put it simply: you are piece of ****. •

Lily and Kim,

A prime example of what I mean by spillage...

But since I'm here...can someone explain to me how the DO match works in conjunction with the MD match. I've read about it before, but still don't quite understand it and if I remember the rules recently changed.

Thanks,
mj

 

[doughboy]

The DO match is about 2 weeks earlier than the MD match. As a DO, you can apply to both programs. However, if you match at the DO match then they automatically drop you out of the MD match. Several years ago you were able to hold your DO spot while you waited for the MD match results. I believe that this is more advantageous for people who really want a DO match and not an MD match because the people who want an MD match aren't holding on to all the DO spots while they wait. Its probably easier on the DO programs too because then they don't have people giving up their spots to take different ones. It sucks for people who want to do an MD residency because if they match DO then they will never know what they could have gotten in the MD match. Do you play it safe and enter both matches? Or do you throw the dice and wait for the MD match hoping you'll get what you want. Worse case could be not matching the MD and then you'd have to scramble for whatever is left in either side.

 

[mj]

Thanks for the info doughboy.

A couple of questions:

Aren't there some MD matches that happen outside of/earlier than the normal MD match? How do those fit into the picture?

If you do have to scrammble, can you do it on either side or are there rules that go with that too?

What do you think the majority are doing these days, "play it safe and enter both matches? Or do you throw the dice and wait for the MD match hoping you'll get what you want"

Thanks,
mj

 

[doughboy]

I believe there are matches for some fields before the regular match. The only one that I'm positive is ENT. The scrambling after the match can be scary. I'm sure as a DO you can scramble in either one depending on your qualifications and if they fit the requirements for any residency. However, your pickings will be slim if you wait until after the MD match. Do you play it safe and enter both? It does cost some more money. And if you do match DO first you might end up thinking what could have happened had you done the MD match. I've been thinking about it and I'm entering the MD match only as a DO. I really like some of the programs I've rotated at and so I'm going to throw the dice. If by chance I don't get anything then I'll try to scramble and if there is nothing after that then somehow I'll end up doing a DO rotating internship somewhere. I'm positive there will be spots for that. Just not in your favorite location. And even if I have to end up doing a rotating internship then it makes you even more competitive the next year because while all the fourth years are starting, you'll have had a whole year of an internship under your belt and that experience will make you look good. A lot of DO's I know recommend it because it makes you look awesome when you apply and they ask you why they should take you and of course you answer saying you've done a whole year of training while the others are all green. Either way, I have some confidence in myself and I think I have competitve scores and stats. Most people I believe just do the internship year and apply afterwards to wherever because some states you have to do a AOA approved internship or you can't practice there such as Michigan, Florida,...

 

[docorange04]

RAM-

Thanks, but I probably was a little harsh on Bird. I do agree that he/she needs to relax though. I will try to keep future posts to a more positive tune. Send me a private email if you want to know who I am as I also do not know who you are. Anyway, enjoy your last two weeks of summer and I guess we'll see each other on the 20th.

Later.

 

[mj]

Last question I promise doughboy...

so you have to do an internship before residency in certain states only, after which you go through the match process and you can apply to either still, but for other states you don't have to do the internship? What if you want to practice in one of those states following residency?

DO licensing is just baffling to me...

Thanks for your resposnes doughboy,

mj

 

[Billie]

There are 5 states that require an Osteopathic Internship to be licensed in that state. I don't remember what the other 4 are, just my state of WV. So no internship, no license.

Billie

 

[rxfudd]

You need an osteopathic internship in MI - that leaves three more states...

 

[BADunning]

This is straight from the AOA website.

"Osteopathic physicians are required to have completed an AOA-approved internship in order to be licensed in Florida, Michigan, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia."

 

[doughboy]

mj-if you don't do your AOA internship then you "supposedly" cannot take any positions in academia. If you do your residency without an internship in a state that doesn't need one and want to practice in a state that requires one then you will not be recognized by the AOA and therefore cannot practice there. However, I have heard rumors of people who didn't do internships being able to practice in states that did require them....I think if you badger the AOA enough and if they know you're a good doctor and will be a good representative of a DO then they end up letting you practice...I'm sure extra money is involved too. Who knows, maybe in the future they will get rid of that rule and it won't matter. It just sucks because I'm from Michigan and I if I want to go back home and practice I need an internship. Some DO programs integrate the internship as part of a "tracking" program so that internship counts as your first year of residency which is nice. Some programs require a year of internship before you start such as anesthesiology, dermatology, opthamology. MD's have a transitional year that is about the same as an AOA internship, some are even dually approved as an AOA/ACGME.

 

[Mr. happy clown guy]

Those states that require AOA internship...you can get around that crap. Read "DO's guide to getting a MD residency: DO's eat their young". It may not be easy, but come on...it is an outdated way of thinking. Their are plenty of DO's in allopathic programs in Pennsylvania for example, who never did a formal AOA internship year. All you have to do is to get your PGY1 year approved by the AOA and attend the yearly AOA conference etc.
That is what the AOA website DOESN'T tell you...hell, they don't want you to know.
Regarding a position in academia...well if you do a residency at, say, Case Western, I don't think Lake Erie would deny you spot at a clinical professor. Besides, you may end up teaching at Case Western.

 

[mj]

Thanks doughboy! That was very helpful...although, I don't know if I think it's any less complicated now. DANG! I feel sorry for people changing states caught in between liscensing boards. That must suck.

mj

 

[UHS2002]

Hey Bird, you are bound to be disappointed if JDG goes into proctology, as you two might end up in the same residency program:
fyi, proctology is the old name for colorectal surgery...hence JDG would have to be your partner in a general surgery residency before he becomes a "proctologist".

Oh well, just thought I would mention that

 

[cocobeanz]

dont forget michigan! internship is necessary here for a license. plus there are many positions for do's!

 

[DO2]

Are the DO dermatology residencies as good as the ACGME ones?

 

[Future GI Guy]

While it may be obvious to some, there are some people who might not know how to research Osteopathic Residencies. Even though I'm in an allopathic program, I believe strongly in being fully informed. Thus, for all who want to know how to look up Osteopathic Residencies, here's the link:
http://opportunities.aoa-net.org/Opportunities/residencies/residency.asp

 

[Future GI Guy]

Oh, and since it came up earlier in the thread, be sure to view the one remaining residency in the area of Proctology.

It's humerous that someone can still train in diseases of the anus. I prefer the Small Intestine and Pancreas, myself, but I have to applaude any effort at GI education.

 

[DOC-2005]

doughboy (or anyone else that knows)--

Could you elaborate on your comment that DO surgical residencies are not the best compared to MD residencies? How do they pale in comparison? Thanks.

 

[euhsa]

Originally posted by birdflysatnite:
•Are there osteopathic residencies in surgery?•

I also want to express my apologies Dr. Birdie, but this question was pretty silly.

 

[jswed]

I am prospestive student looking into both DO and MD programs. I have found the website for available DO residencies. Can someone tell me where I can find what MD residencies are open to DO students to apply to? Thanks.

 

[Stinky T]

Originally posted by jswed:
•I am prospestive student looking into both DO and MD programs. I have found the website for available DO residencies. Can someone tell me where I can find what MD residencies are open to DO students to apply to? Thanks.•

All the residencies are open for DO students to apply.

 

[jswed]

If all residencies are open for DOs, are there any tests that I would have to take to qualify for the MD residencies (such as USMLE step 1 & 2)? If my stats are goods and comparable to MDs that are applying, is it still harder to get a MD residency? I have heard that their is discrimination even if you have good creds. But I have also heard that some of the top students from good DO schools match for competitive residencies. What is the typical profile of a student that is accepted to a good residency program? Thanks in advance.

 

[Leotigers]

Your questions are difficult to answer because there are many different factors that go into residency selection. Grades, connections, performance on audtion rotations, research, and board scores are all important factors.

What do you mean exactly by a competitive residency? Do you mean Neurosurgery, Orthopedic Surgery, Derm, or
ENT? You can get match statistics for some of these programs at:

http://www.sfmatch.org/

DOs are not required to take the USMLE to apply for residencies, but for the more competitive residencies such as the ones listed above, I think it would be beneficial to take the USMLE.

Realize that there are very few DOs who even apply to the extremely competitive allopathic residencies. For instance, in 2001, there were only 36 DOs who applied for allopathic Orthopedic Surgery Residencies. For comparison, there were 882 AMGs that
applied and 217 IMGs.

http://www.aamc.org/about/progemph/eras/01stats.htm

Thus, I think it's a bunch of crap when MD students say that DOs CAN'T get into competitve MD residencies. I think that there are many US MD schools that will give you an edge, but they also give you an edge when compared to lower ranked US MD schools as well. COMP, TUCOM, and AZCOM all matched very well into California Allopathic Residencies. Connections play a large role in residency placement and if you want to stay in CA for residency, it certainly helps to go to medical school there. Also, I know many DOs from COMP, TUCOM, AZCOM, MSUCOM, NOVA, PCOM, and CCOM who did match into very competitive allopathic residencies.

The point is that you will not be limited in anyway if you decided to go to an osteopathic medical school. You will also have the added benefit of being able to apply to osteopathic residencies as well.

Obviously, you should go to the best school you can get into, but realize that the best school for you may be a DO school. You can still get into any residency you want to get into. What gets you the residency you want is
not unlike what MD applicants need as well.

Since you attend UC Berkeley, a few other random facts that you might find interesting is that the current chief resident of Neurosurgery at UC Davis is a DO. His name is Jeff Mimbs, D.O.

Check out Stanford's Cardiology department:

http://cardiology.stanford.edu/

(Click on the faculty section)

The Dermatology fellow in Melanoma at UCSF is currently a DO.

If you want to do Orthopedic Surgery, it may actually be easier to be a DO since you can apply to both DO and MD residencies. I know SEVERAL US MDs from very good schools that didn't match into Ortho or Derm. Just because you attend an allopathic school does not mean you are guaranteed a spot in any residency you want.

By the way, 40% of this year's class at TUCOM is from the UC System:

http://www.tucom.edu/admissions.htm

(Click on Admissions Information)