DO residency or take my chances?

[castafari]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I am a DO student that applied to both MD and DO residencies for Anesthesia. After I finish my residency I hope to do a fellowship in cardiothoracic anesthesia. From there I'd like to specialize in Cardiothoracic anesthesia and also work at a trauma center.
My question for everyone on this board is this: Should I take the safer road and enter the DO match. Would this allow me to eventually accomplish my goals of getting into a cardiothoracic fellowship?? Or should I take my chances and just go with the MD match? By the way I only have 5 MD interviews. I am torn on what to do and time is ticking. Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[kazuma]

That's a tough decision. I've talked to 4th years that are in your shoes and they are having the same dilemma. One guy thinks that if he matches to a smaller DO program that it will either prohibit or significantly decrease his chances of doing a fellowship or working in academics.

It definitely seems safer to go through the DO match since it would increase your chances of at least matching into anesthesia. I guess it depends on how bad you want to do a fellowship. Would you be content or satisfied with your career if you didn't get to do a fellowship? Not that doing a DO residency would bar you from an MD fellowship, but I'd imagine if might be more difficult than if you trained in an MD residency.

Have you already interviewed at the MD programs? If so, did they go well and did it seem like you were well received? Did you do rotate at any of the MD sites?

Best of luck. I'll be in the same dilemma next year. I will probably have to feel really confident about the MD programs I visit in order to bypass the DO match altogether. If I remember correctly, I thought that DO students could sign contracts outside the match like international students. Its probably a rare occasion, but it would sure make the decision easier to make.

 

[Consigliere]

Just D.O. it!

 

[SukaNeNauka]

Go MD, you will never regret it

 

[tabishis]

Is it true that a DO that applies to both osteo and allo residencies and gets accepted into atleast one MD residency, he/she automatically gets dropped from D.O. residency list? I think I either read it somewhere or heard from someone. Just not too sure.

 

[panetrain]

MD!!! IMO, the only reason to do a CV fellowship is to obtain TEE certification and heart/lung transplant experience, and not to merely become proficient at bread and butter CV (this is what residency is for). I can't imagine that there is a DO CV fellowship that is affiliated with an academic transplant center. You can also obtain TEE cert. without the fellowship. Therefore, the only true reason for the fellowship is to become proficient with heart/lung transplants (not obtainable through DO route). Others may argue that the fellowship may aid in launching an academic/research related career. If you have this goal in mind then you had better go the MD route and realize you are already at a disadvantage in the academic world (with lack of MD or PhD).

 

[kazuma]

Is it true that a DO that applies to both osteo and allo residencies and gets accepted into at least one DO residency, he/she automatically gets dropped from MD residency list? I think I either read it somewhere or heard from someone. Just not too sure.

Fixed it for you. Since the DO match is ~1 month before the MD match, it prohibits you from matching MD if you match into a DO program.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

MD!!! IMO, the only reason to do a CV fellowship is to obtain TEE certification and heart/lung transplant experience, and not to merely become proficient at bread and butter CV (this is what residency is for). I can't imagine that there is a DO CV fellowship that is affiliated with an academic transplant center. You can also obtain TEE cert. without the fellowship. Therefore, the only true reason for the fellowship is to become proficient with heart/lung transplants (not obtainable through DO route). Others may argue that the fellowship may aid in launching an academic/research related career. If you have this goal in mind then you had better go the MD route and realize you are already at a disadvantage in the academic world (with lack of MD or PhD).

An ACGME residency in anesthesilogy is the gold standard. So is ABA board certification. Period. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a fool.

There is very little objective info available on DO residencies on this board.

Personally, I would go balls to to the wall and attempt to get an ACGME residency.


I think that being a DO may put you at a little bit of a disadvantage at soem places in terms of academics bit probably doesn't make that big of a deal.

 

[siednarb]

Arch -

I wouldn't call ACGME or the ABA the "Gold Standard" - certainly there are plenty of well qualified DO anesthesiologists who went through the AOBA and DO world for their post graduate training just as I am sure plenty of sub-par MD's (or DO's) who did go through the ABA.

The "Gold Standard" is simply becoming board certified - whether through the ABA or the AOBA - a patient is not going to ask a doctor - "are you board certified through the ABA or AOBA?"

As for the OP - I believe that the DO match comes first and if you match in the DO match you are then dropped in the MD match a month later - I am not 100% sure as it has been a while since I went through the match - but that is what I recall.

I know of plenty of DO's who I trained with (in an ACGME/ABA program) who went on do fellowships in CV - one of them at Texas Heart.

As for TEE certification - I believe that those who graduate from residency after 2009 will have to do a fellowship to be TEE certified - one can still take the exam without the fellowship but you are just given a "testimur" status (whatever that means). Those who graduated before 2009 can take the exam and become certified - by submitting a log of TEE exams that you performed along with passing the exam - that is my understanding at least.

best of luck to the OP!

 

[SleepIsGood]

Arch -

I wouldn't call ACGME or the ABA the "Gold Standard" - certainly there are plenty of well qualified DO anesthesiologists who went through the AOBA and DO world for their post graduate training just as I am sure plenty of sub-par MD's (or DO's) who did go through the ABA.

The "Gold Standard" is simply becoming board certified - whether through the ABA or the AOBA - a patient is not going to ask a doctor - "are you board certified through the ABA or AOBA?"

As for the OP - I believe that the DO match comes first and if you match in the DO match you are then dropped in the MD match a month later - I am not 100% sure as it has been a while since I went through the match - but that is what I recall.

I know of plenty of DO's who I trained with (in an ACGME/ABA program) who went on do fellowships in CV - one of them at Texas Heart.

As for TEE certification - I believe that those who graduate from residency after 2009 will have to do a fellowship to be TEE certified - one can still take the exam without the fellowship but you are just given a "testimur" status (whatever that means). Those who graduated before 2009 can take the exam and become certified - by submitting a log of TEE exams that you performed along with passing the exam - that is my understanding at least.

best of luck to the OP!

I think ARCH has a point.

Patients may not ask, but future employers may require or desire ABA/ACGME. Read messages from certain attendings here that actually HIRE people and you will see that they (not all) look for ABA/ACGME certification. So why would you want to put yourself and a disadvantage?

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I wouldn't call ACGME or the ABA the "Gold Standard" - certainly there are plenty of well qualified DO anesthesiologists who went through the AOBA and DO world for their post graduate training just as I am sure plenty of sub-par MD's (or DO's) who did go through the ABA.
The "Gold Standard" is simply becoming board certified - whether through the ABA or the AOBA - a patient is not going to ask a doctor - "are you board certified through the ABA or AOBA?"

I agree with your first statement (except the gold standard part)but not your second.

Perhaps I was being a bit harsh in my assessment but I truly believe that ABA board certification is in fact the "gold standard". ABA cert. will not hold you back from ANY job IMHO. It may not make any sense but there are certain locales in the U.S. that may not look as favorably upon osteopathic training, thereby limiting your options to a degree.

 

[Surfer]

There are lots of crappy D.O. schools. And they are all very expensive. I'd stay away. Unless you have a very good reason to go the DO route, go MD.

Not to start a flame war here, but why do MD programs accept DO applicants for residency? DO's don't even go through the medical board, they have their own board. So why should they train at our residency programs?

 

[okayplayer]

.

 

[SukaNeNauka]

You have interviews at top places in the country, really? What are those? Are you interviewing at Duke, UCSF. Mass, Hopkins, Stanford, Penn, BID, Columbia, Cornell?

 

[okayplayer]

.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

There are lots of crappy D.O. schools. And they are all very expensive. I'd stay away. Unless you have a very good reason to go the DO route, go MD.

Not to start a flame war here, but why do MD programs accept DO applicants for residency? DO's don't even go through the medical board, they have their own board. So why should they train at our residency programs?

You sound very bitter. Relax, light a candle, smoke a doobie😀.

Seriously though, what are you trying to accomplish besides starting a flame war?

There seem to be new DO schools popping up at a rather abrupt rate. And yes they are expensive. I have no idea if they are"crappy" or not. I felt like I got a pretty good medical education.

DO's go through the medical board, just like MD's.

A full list of every states medical boards can be found here:

http://www.fsmb.org/directory_smb.html

I am licensed by an "allopathic" medical board and also the ABA.

Have a great Thanksgiving🙂.

 

[Prof Moriarty]

You have interviews at top places in the country, really? What are those? Are you interviewing at Duke, UCSF. Mass, Hopkins, Stanford, Penn, BID, Columbia, Cornell?

This was just obnoxious.

Congrats okayplayer on a great score and promising career.

DO's don't even go through the medical board, they have their own board. So why should they train at our residency programs?

Not sure if you mean USMLE boards or state licensing boards. Either way is not totally accurate. Many state licensing boards are combined. And many (if not most) DO students who apply to ACGME programs take the USMLE (in addition to the COMLEX).

I'd agree that if you know you want to do anes from the outset going MD makes more sense if possible. If not, the DO route is also obviously an option. But as noted the OP is talking about residency applications.

 

[Surfer]

here's my point: if you can go to an "osteopathic" school, yet take the allopathic medical boards, why shouldn't nurses be able to do the same? why shouldn't anybody who can pass the allopathic boards get a medical license? in many states there are separate osteopathic and medical boards.

if somebody wants to go to an "osteopathic" medical school then GREAT! they should go to an osteopathic school, and then practice osteopathic medicine with all that spinal adjustment and other bs. otherwise why have accredited MD schools? why have the AAMC? why have the NBME Step exams if anybody can take them to prove "equivalence" to MD programs?

To me its more of a future issue than an acute issue right now. Currently there are plenty of residency spots to go around for most specialties. But as we pump out more and more schools, with little to no oversight to their training (because as DO they do not have to be accredited with the AAMC) we dilute the medical pool and put our own future careers in jeopardy.

Its not a "MD is better" argument. Its an issue of them being DIFFERENT. If you want to practice osteopathy, DO is your route! If you want to practice allopathically, we shouldn't allow DO to be a backdoor option, because what's the difference between that and DNP or NP or anybody else who can score a 230 on the USMLE?

 

[SukaNeNauka]

Well I did not mean to sound obnoxious, but reality is DOs are not really being considered at the very top places even with stellar board scores and grades.

 

[Surfer]

everybody has a different idea of what a "top program" is. to each their own.

my argument has nothing to do with capability. i'm sure there are many, MANY D.O. students who have better board scores than me and will make excellent anesthesiologists. I just don't understand why people go to a DO school when they have no intention of practicing osteopathic medicine??

 

[lilzelda2]

There's more to being a DO than manipultion. I didn't become a DO because I wanted to practice OMT, but I believed in the philosophy of treating the whole patient.


Last time I checked we all learn pretty much the same crap, study from the same books, and we both get called doctor. I like being a DO nd wouldn't change it for the world. If there were DO gas programs in NY, I would of just applied DO, b/c at the end of the day I became doctor b/c I wanted to help people. Not brag about training or board scores.

 

[Prof Moriarty]

here's my point: if you can go to an "osteopathic" school, yet take the allopathic medical boards, why shouldn't nurses be able to do the same? why shouldn't anybody who can pass the allopathic boards get a medical license? in many states there are separate osteopathic and medical boards.

if somebody wants to go to an "osteopathic" medical school then GREAT! they should go to an osteopathic school, and then practice osteopathic medicine with all that spinal adjustment and other bs. otherwise why have accredited MD schools? why have the AAMC? why have the NBME Step exams if anybody can take them to prove "equivalence" to MD programs?

To me its more of a future issue than an acute issue right now. Currently there are plenty of residency spots to go around for most specialties. But as we pump out more and more schools, with little to no oversight to their training (because as DO they do not have to be accredited with the AAMC) we dilute the medical pool and put our own future careers in jeopardy.

Its not a "MD is better" argument. Its an issue of them being DIFFERENT. If you want to practice osteopathy, DO is your route! If you want to practice allopathically, we shouldn't allow DO to be a backdoor option, because what's the difference between that and DNP or NP or anybody else who can score a 230 on the USMLE?

I understand what you're saying but I don't think the argument really holds up. Compare curricula and you will see that MD and DO students study 95+% the same material. It's probably more like 99%. Some people want to make a big deal about the other 1% - usually pre-meds or med students, but some MD's and DO's too. The format of the education is the same. Quality is a different issue and I'd agree with you that some DO schools have a ways to go on that front. The mentality at many schools is very much geared towards primary care, but a good student who develops other interests will make up for that (and perhaps it could even provide a valuable perspective to practice).

DNP's have a totally different background, curriculum, and educational and licensing pathway.

Not everyone can take the NBME step exams. Only MD's and DO's. And that's because experts in medical education recognize that the training is sufficiently similar to warrant it.

I agree with your advice: "Go MD if you know you want anes, do ACGME program, etc." But the other stuff doesn't hold up for me. I think the problem is that you're starting with an inaccurate definition of osteopathic medicine ("spinal adjustment and other bs"). Maybe you had a bad experience with one of the militant DO types with a chip on their shoulder. But I don't see that on this forum ever. MD's and DO's are fully the licensed physicians in all 50 states. To suggest that somehow this means that DNP's should be able to take boards or enter a medical residency just doesn't jibe with the educational or legal reality.

 

[DartosDO]

I chose a DO school because I was interested in osteopathic medicine. Whether I choose to use it later or not is to be determined, but I gave myself the chance.

To the OP, if you are interested in Osteopathic Academics, I am pretty sure the higher up positions actually require an osteopathic residency. This isn't a widely known fact, but consider it if you are interested in being a Dean one day.

 

[spectrin]

.

 

[somedumbDO]

everybody has a different idea of what a "top program" is. to each their own.

my argument has nothing to do with capability. i'm sure there are many, MANY D.O. students who have better board scores than me and will make excellent anesthesiologists. I just don't understand why people go to a DO school when they have no intention of practicing osteopathic medicine??

Lets face it the simple reason is that we didn't have the grades/ mcats for MD school for whatever reason. However, worked our asses off in medical school took all the MD and DO exams scored well and got a competitive residency that DO programs cannot offer. The MD/DO curriculum is the same. In fact, I had to score higher and have a better portfolio than my MD equal to get where I am at. You seem butt hurt that qualified people are in "your" residency. Get over it.

 

[amyl]

Not to start a flame war here, but why do MD programs accept DO applicants for residency? DO's don't even go through the medical board, they have their own board. So why should they train at our residency programs?

because we were more qualified, in their eyes, than the other MD candidates that they interviewed. end of story. i do think that DO residencies should be open to MD candidates as well, with someway to catch up on the OMT stuff.
there are idiots in both MD and DO schools... and there are geniuses. I only applied to one medical school because i wanted to keep my husband, it happened to be DO.... the curriculums are very similar, we just take one more class the first and second years than you guys do.
that said the residencies in anes, imho, are not equal. the board certification process, minimum case numbers, oral board requirements, etc. are not the same between DO and MD residencies.
i believe that once a DO candidate enters the whole match, interview, etc process an outside the match spot is still a violation.
also, i know you think you want to do CT anes, but things change.... when we first arrived most of my ca-1 class had definite ideas about what they wanted to do after residency and many have changed their minds. sometimes life gets in the way of what you think you wanted....

 

[Surfer]

because we were more qualified, in their eyes, than the other MD candidates that they interviewed. end of story. i do think that DO residencies should be open to MD candidates as well, with someway to catch up on the OMT stuff.
there are idiots in both MD and DO schools... and there are geniuses. I only applied to one medical school because i wanted to keep my husband, it happened to be DO.... the curriculums are very similar, we just take one more class the first and second years than you guys do.
that said the residencies in anes, imho, are not equal. the board certification process, minimum case numbers, oral board requirements, etc. are not the same between DO and MD residencies.
i believe that once a DO candidate enters the whole match, interview, etc process an outside the match spot is still a violation.
also, i know you think you want to do CT anes, but things change.... when we first arrived most of my ca-1 class had definite ideas about what they wanted to do after residency and many have changed their minds. sometimes life gets in the way of what you think you wanted....

What's to keep me from inventing a new degree called the "Doctor of Voodoo Medicine" and setting up schools all over the country that teach 95% of the same stuff as MD schools, but also teach voodoo? Then my students can take the USMLE to prove equivalence to MD students and jump into MD residencies. Then I will have my own Voodoo Medical Board at the state level licensing graduates to practice "voodoo medicine" which will basically encompass all of medicine, but with the addition of "1 or two extra classes."

See! Voodoo docs are BETTER! And people like Amyl can attend a voodoo medical school in order to stay close to her husband! PERFECT!

And Amyl, no MD student has ever wanted to attend a DO residency program. Ever.

 

[danzman]

What's to keep me from inventing a new degree called the "Doctor of Voodoo Medicine" and setting up schools all over the country that teach 95% of the same stuff as MD schools, but also teach voodoo? Then my students can take the USMLE to prove equivalence to MD students and jump into MD residencies. Then I will have my own Voodoo Medical Board at the state level licensing graduates to practice "voodoo medicine" which will basically encompass all of medicine, but with the addition of "1 or two extra classes."

See! Voodoo docs are BETTER! And people like Amyl can attend a voodoo medical school in order to stay close to her husband! PERFECT!

And Amyl, no MD student has ever wanted to attend a DO residency program. Ever.

That is the dumbest shi* I have ever heard. You follow the exact same logic that pre-meds follow and it is just ******ed. Lest we forget that there is nothing magic about medical school anyway. Its not as if we learn anything, and I mean anything that could not be easily obtained by searching wikipedia for god’s sakes. Hell, nobody really remembers anything but the basics after being away from it for a while. And as for no MDs wanting to do a DO residency, apparently you haven’t ever heard of derm, ortho, NS, ENT or any other mildly competitive field. Any person who would voluntarily give up a spot in a DO program is a *****. Why would you sacrifice the chance to do what you want? I can assure you that if they ever open up DO spots to MD (I think they should) that every single competitive spot will be filled with both DOs and MDs.

This is the kind of idiotic crap that proves that people in medicine are socially awkward nimrods. Whining about how smart you are, or how much better your degree is only makes you look like a tool. And for the record, I would never want to work with someone DO,MD,NP,PA etc', that would make such a stupid comment about someone who had worked their butt off to do a job, even if it wasn't as good as you.

Do you want a medal, Or a chest to pin it on?

 

[Surfer]

read my posts and you will see that it is not an issue of competence or ability at all. its simply an issue of two totally different systems and whether or not those systems should intermix as if they are equivalent. If the answer is "yes" then what other systems or criteria would you use to prove "equivalence?" why not let somebody study at home on the internet, pass each individual shelf exam, and then pass the USMLE and enter a ACGME residency? why no MD's in DO residencies (besides they don't want them)? i think these are valid questions, if you are not going to require an accredited AAMC medical school degree as entrance to MD residency.

 

[castafari]

I can't believe "surfer" whose status says "resident" has time to come on this board multiple times a day and screw up my thread. I mean what a freaking loser. Once I am an anesthesia resident you think I am going to be surfing these threads on my day off? A few of you guys did give intelligent responses and so I thank you for that. I feel that this is a huge decision I have to make and believe me I don't take it lightly.
By the way "surfer" it seems the MD directors of some anesthesia programs don't see a huge difference between DOs and MDs like you do. One program I have visited actually signs DOs outside the match.

 

[Surfer]

when you don't like the message, attack the messenger. nice play. i can't surf all day, especially when the waves are as big as they are today. but i can cruise the internet and watch football at the same time while enjoying my day off.

 

[panetrain]

surfer, just wondering what your thoughts are regarding DO's and MD's working side by side as equals (same job, same pay, same clinical outcomes) in clinical private practice and academic settings in literally every city in the USA?

when you don't like the message, attack the messenger. nice play. i can't surf all day, especially when the waves are as big as they are today. but i can cruise the internet and watch football at the same time while enjoying my day off.

 

[badasshairday]

Surfer, you have some real bizzare thoughts... Ie. what you are saying in this thread is totally something Pre-meds would say. And on that medical marijuana thread, you said something like, "Marijuana causes people to rob, rape, and murder people." 🙄

There is NO WAY that you can be a Surfer!

 

[panetrain]

Surfer, do you echo your views towards DOs to your fellow DO gas residents or DO faculty at your institution😀? Will you relay these views to your future DO anesthesiology partners or DO surgeons you provide gas for😱? Will you relay these views to DO hospital board members where you get privileges? If not then why😡? Why would you hide these views you obviously feel so strongly abou😉t? 😕

 

[Surfer]

Surfer, do you echo your views towards DOs to your fellow DO gas residents or DO faculty at your institution😀? Will you relay these views to your future DO anesthesiology partners or DO surgeons you provide gas for😱? Will you relay these views to DO hospital board members where you get privileges? If not then why😡? Why would you hide these views you obviously feel so strongly abou😉t? 😕

No DO's at my program.

Would you answer my question? If DO's are allowed to take the USMLE and fill MD residency spots, why shouldn't DNP's, or anybody else that wants to pass the USMLE be allowed to sit for it? do you believe in osteopathy? if you do, why, and if you don't, why did you go to a school that teaches it?

what i'm saying really isn't that controversial. there has been a proliferation of DO schools because there is less DO oversight than MD to open a school. so if DO's can prove equivalence with the USMLE, why not any other degrees?

 

[Prof Moriarty]

This message is hidden because Surfer is on your ignore list.

Wow, SDN suddenly seems new and improved. 😎

 

[Arch Guillotti]

If DO's are allowed to take the USMLE and fill MD residency spots, why shouldn't DNP's, or anybody else that wants to pass the USMLE be allowed to sit for it?QUOTE]

All other arguments aside - only MD and DO are physicians. Nobody else carries an unrestricted medical license (at least in my state). We are in some serious trouble if this ever changes.

 

[Surfer]

To the original OP: you say you want to specialize in cardiothoracic anesthesia and work in a trauma center. How many cardiac cases have you seen? Have you ever even scrubbed in on one? How many nights of trauma call have you taken?

I'm guessing the answers to both questions are very close to zero. Assuming that, I'd pick a residency in a city you want to live in, and worry about career options later because chances are you're not going to think cardiac and trauma are as hot when you're done with residency as you do now as a 4th year medical student.

If you do a residency in a city you love, you will do fine, and your options will be good ones (because likely you will have the option to stay).

 

[spectrin]

Wow, SDN suddenly seems new and improved. 😎

we can't simply ignore the misconceptions about our profession

 

[Prof Moriarty]

we can't simply ignore the misconceptions about our profession

These aren't misconceptions, they're willfully ignorant and manipulative misrepresentations that ignore facts and are totally tangential to the conversation at hand.

This guy's posts are a waste of SDN space on this and many other topics. I like to hear outspoken opinions different from my own and to engage in a healthy debate. But I don't need to hear the same ignorant comments over and over again without regard to facts, reality, or the law. You can respond to this guy's ridiculous comments or answer his ignorant questions over and over again and he will just keep saying/asking the same things. Reality doesn't have anything to do with it. Some people just think/act like that. Don't know how they can do it without being embarrassed. That's their business, but I don't have to listen to it.

 

[Surfer]

These aren't misconceptions, they're willfully ignorant and manipulative misrepresentations that ignore facts and are totally tangential to the conversation at hand.

This guy's posts are a waste of SDN space on this and many other topics. I like to hear outspoken opinions different from my own and to engage in a healthy debate. But I don't need to hear the same ignorant comments over and over again without regard to facts, reality, or the law. You can respond to this guy's ridiculous comments or answer his ignorant questions over and over again and he will just keep saying/asking the same things. Reality doesn't have anything to do with it. Some people just think/act like that. Don't know how they can do it without being embarrassed. That's their business, but I don't have to listen to it.

I'm guessing you're a DO student?

Arch you're right about the physician comments, but don't you see it a little ironic that while DO's will defend the right to take the USMLE, the DO board doesn't let MD's take their boards? What rationale do they use to only allow DO's to sit for the boards, and should that same rationale apply to the USMLE??

Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with competency or ability. Nor am i saying DO's aren't great physicians. I'm just saying letting non MDs take the USMLE is a slippery slope. Its DO students today, tomorrow it will be DNP's. Wouldn't it be better for BOTH md/do if we only allowed each to take their respective boards? that way there is no precedence for non-md's taking the USMLE.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Arch you're right about the physician comments, but don't you see it a little ironic that while DO's will defend the right to take the USMLE, the DO board doesn't let MD's take their boards? What rationale do they use to only allow DO's to sit for the boards, and should that same rationale apply to the USMLE??

No it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I think that the number of MD's wanting to take the COMLEX is vanishingly small. Everyone knows my feeling that ACGME residencies and ABA board cert is the "gold standard". I really don't know too much at all about other residencies though. There are some very good DO residencies out there, and there are also some pretty bad ones. I chose the USMLE route to licensure and am glad I did. I don't ever have to deal with the ostepathic bureacracy again.

 

[castafari]

So its been a few days since I have been on here to check my thread and I was hoping to see some good discussion. Instead all I have learned is that "surfer" really loves to surf these threads even on day when he is working as a resident and screw up my discussion further. You ask how many cardiac cases I have scrubbed? Why do you think this number should be zero? You think there are no DOs that do open heart surgery or DO students scrub in on them? On the cardio thoracic surgery rotation I did as a third year there were 2 MDs and 1 DO that had the most cases at the hospital. I was assigned under the MDs for the rotation as another student was working under the DO. Actually the DO was doing more of the "cutting edge" type surgeries (off pump, "minimally invasive", robotic) and the MDs doing things the traditional way. I am not saying one way is better than the other, but the DO was definetly interested in trying to find a better way to do things. Over the course of a month there were maybe 4 days where there weren't any surgeries, on all the other days there were usually from 1-2 CABGs or valve replacements (and carotid endarterectomies in the afternoons). I am guessing that I scrubbed in about 20-25 cases. I remember one re-do Aortic valve where both surgeons were scrubbed in and there was no room for me. So I spent the entire case with the anesthesiologist. That was really the first time I became interested in anesthesia. I remember going home and reading up on the Fick equation and heart and lung phys and loving it. When I did my first formal anesthesia rotation there were open heart cases going on every day. Although I spent a lot of time in the heart room watching swans being put in, central lines, TEE, etc. But I also wanted to get a feel for everything else in anesthesia. So I spent a lot of time in OB, in ortho watching regional procedures and of course plenty of lap choles so I could improve my intubations. So you see a DO applicant interested in anesthesia probably isn't all that different than an MD student except that he went to a DO school and had to learn OMT along with everything the MD student learned. By the way, before med school I was a marine biologist. After 5 years I decided to try to get into medical school. I went and took the mcat on a whim, got a decent score (29) without really studying for it. Probably could have gotten into the local MD school, my friends with 28-30 MCATs got in. But I went DO because my own family physician was a DO, I volunteered at an osteopathic hospital, and had an LOR from a DO. I applied to one school thinking I was probably going to do FP, but fell in love with anesthesia during my month of CT surgery. So there is my story, please leave my thread alone if you want to keep bashing DOs. Well, I am off to bed. I have my third interview in the morning!

 

[castafari]

I forgot to mention. When I was on my last rotation at a trauma center, they didn't require students to take call. I volunteered for it thinking it would make me look like a good candidate, plus most of the traumas come in at night right? The case that stands out in my mind is a 25 yo Black male. 4 gun shot wounds. His friends drove him 40 minutes to the hospital. He had a systolic bp of 70 on arrival. Well, they saved his life and a few days later he walked out of the hospital! I said to myself this is the **** and I want to be a part of this team some day!

 

[Surfer]

I forgot to mention. When I was on my last rotation at a trauma center, they didn't require students to take call. I volunteered for it thinking it would make me look like a good candidate, plus most of the traumas come in at night right? The case that stands out in my mind is a 25 yo Black male. 4 gun shot wounds. His friends drove him 40 minutes to the hospital. He had a systolic bp of 70 on arrival. Well, they saved his life and a few days later he walked out of the hospital! I said to myself this is the **** and I want to be a part of this team some day!

volunteering for trauma call is different than being q3 and responsible. the rest of your posts i couldn't really make any sense of. it looked like some kind of interview answer to "why do you want to be an anesthesiologist."

you say you chose DO over MD. That's great! Congratulations! But now you made your bed, and will have to sleep in it. All of our choices have consequences. Good luck with your interviews.

One more question, you keep saying you studied all the same stuff with the addition of OMT. So what are MD students doing while you're studying OMT?

 

[kazuma]

One more question, you keep saying you studied all the same stuff with the addition of OMT. So what are MD students doing while you're studying OMT?

Who knows, perhaps derailing threads on SDN? Considering most DO schools only have an hour or so of OMT lecture and lab per week, it isn't a whole lot of "extra" time. I never studied OMM throughout the semester, I just crammed for a few hours before the exams and did well. 🙄

 

[panetrain]

Getting back on track with the theme of this thread. It is extremely safe to say that training at a recognized MD anesthesiology residency will yield more as well as better job opportunities throughout your entire career. Keep this in mind especially in the wake of a contracting job market that will likely only worsen over the next five years. Graduates in the next 4-5 years are going to have a very hard time landing good jobs and jobs that lack high dollar and lengthy buy-ins. The choice is so clear to me. 😱😱😱😱 One more side note...those of you who are using gaswork.com as a measure of the job market...keep this in mind...most of those jobs are outdated and have filled, have been posted for years for a reason, are fake posts from job recruiters in an attempt to get your information logged into their system, are in small **** town USA, have three or four year buy-ins that will only be disclosed at the interview, have listed the highest salary obtainable that requires taking extra call, extra weekends and no vacation, the ones that are advertising 8-10 weeks vacation require you to buy the vacation time for 8-10K/week from the practice or management firm or hosptial. There are way too many qualified MD grads coming out of residency and fighting for a few good jobs. If your CV ends up on the desk of a group president who has 30 CV's from MD gas program grads your toasties. So give yourself the best shot at landing a good job, GO MD KIDO! Also, you cannot rely on the DO gas residency grads advice who are already in the work force. The gas job market has taken a massive dump over the course of only two years. Their success at landing a job will not reflect or predict your abilities to land a job. The gas world is mucho different now!!!!

 

[digitlnoize]

Holy crap. What a *****.

I went to a DO school for many reasons:

1. Cheaper than my in-state MD schools were

2. I got in. I did not get into my state MD schools, so going DO saved me at least 1 year of reapplying, and I'm already old (31yo, 2nd year med student)

3. Much nicer area for my family. Don't have to worry about my family getting killed here. Untrue for my state MD schools.

4. Better basic science curriculum. We're the #1 DO school on COMLEX. We crush our boards, and do quite well on the USMLE too, for those that take it (>50% of the class do and I haven't talked to anyone that got less than a 225 yet...)

So, to answer your question as to "Why anyone would go to a DO school?"...There.

On the subject of OMM: Am I a huge fan? Not really. It's certainly useful, and new studies supporting its use are released constantly. The same cannot be said of "Voodoo Medicine." Would you not send your patient to Physical Therapy? Because, guess what...most of the same techniques.

Besides, very few DO's choose to (or have time to) use manipulation in clinical practice anyways. It's an old, dead argument, IMO. But my wife certainly loves it.

As far as the original question...I'm not sure. Depends on your scores I think. If you're a fairly competitive MD applicant, I'd go for it. If you didn't take USMLE, and/or your score was low...go for the DO match. It won't matter in most places.

Besides, if a place isn't going to hire me because of my initials...I wouldn't want to work there anyways. Would any of you want to work with Surfer? I didn't think so.

 

[jumpingjax]

I can't leave this guy hanging when so many people I work with share his viewpoints (...albeit to a lesser degree).

What's to keep me from inventing a new degree called the "Doctor of Voodoo Medicine" and setting up schools all over the country that teach 95% of the same stuff as MD schools, but also teach voodoo? Then my students can take the USMLE to prove equivalence to MD students and jump into MD residencies. Then I will have my own Voodoo Medical Board at the state level licensing graduates to practice "voodoo medicine" which will basically encompass all of medicine, but with the addition of "1 or two extra classes."

See! Voodoo docs are BETTER! And people like Amyl can attend a voodoo medical school in order to stay close to her husband! PERFECT!

And Amyl, no MD student has ever wanted to attend a DO residency program. Ever.

Sorry, this literally made me spit out my coffee laughing. As crass as you put it, I get your point.

Holy crap. What a *****.

I went to a DO school for many reasons:

1. Cheaper than my in-state MD schools were

2. I got in. I did not get into my state MD schools, so going DO saved me at least 1 year of reapplying, and I'm already old (31yo, 2nd year med student)

3. Much nicer area for my family. Don't have to worry about my family getting killed here. Untrue for my state MD schools.

4. Better basic science curriculum. We're the #1 DO school on COMLEX. We crush our boards, and do quite well on the USMLE too, for those that take it (>50% of the class do and I haven't talked to anyone that got less than a 225 yet...)

So, to answer your question as to "Why anyone would go to a DO school?"...There.

On the subject of OMM: Am I a huge fan? Not really. It's certainly useful, and new studies supporting its use are released constantly. The same cannot be said of "Voodoo Medicine." Would you not send your patient to Physical Therapy? Because, guess what...most of the same techniques.

Besides, very few DO's choose to (or have time to) use manipulation in clinical practice anyways. It's an old, dead argument, IMO. But my wife certainly loves it.

As far as the original question...I'm not sure. Depends on your scores I think. If you're a fairly competitive MD applicant, I'd go for it. If you didn't take USMLE, and/or your score was low...go for the DO match. It won't matter in most places.

Besides, if a place isn't going to hire me because of my initials...I wouldn't want to work there anyways. Would any of you want to work with Surfer? I didn't think so.

Your schools performance on the NCLEX is irrelevant. And anyone can throw out anecdotal bs about step 1 like you have.

 

[NK1Positive]

D.O. School ~35k/year
State School (University of Minnesota) ~55k/year

So basically what everyone is saying is that if I choose to save a shi* load of money certain d-bags are going to think I'm worthless and don't deserve to do an ACGME residency for the rest of my life?