Do you believe in energy medicine

[hands_superior]

I ran across a few articles about alternative medicine and I want to ask if any of you believe in energy medicine.

I think a lot of medical professionals would compared "energy medicine" as "alternative medicine" and any alternative medicine has placebo effect in the body. This placebo effect might even work just as well as the regular medication.

Please share what's your opinion on the energy medicine. Thank you

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[IlDestriero]

I rank it right up there with voodoo and witch doctors, just above chiropractic and faith healing.


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Il Destriero

 

[FutureInternist]

I rank it right up there with voodoo and witch doctors, just above chiropractic and faith healing.


--
Il Destriero

“Down” ;-)

 

[hands_superior]

Ohh. I dont believe in voodoo and magic. I think the placebo effect of the energy medicine changed the way me think about our sickness. So maybe its more of our perception that changes our sickness and we get better ?

 

[Perrotfish]

Ohh. I dont believe in voodoo and magic. I think the placebo effect of the energy medicine changed the way me think about our sickness. So maybe its more of our perception that changes our sickness and we get better ?

You don't get better. It doesn't make you better. It's fake.

 

[deleted859535]

I ran across a few articles about alternative medicine and I want to ask if any of you believe in energy medicine.

I think a lot of medical professionals would compared "energy medicine" as "alternative medicine" and any alternative medicine has placebo effect in the body. This placebo effect might even work just as well as the regular medication.

Please share what's your opinion on the energy medicine. Thank you

Purely placebo. Much as reiki, to which your username incidentally alludes. Like all placebos, has a small, select role. Otherwise, bull****.

Energy medicine isn't going to do a damn thing like the NIPPV or nitroglycerin drip is going to do for my pulmonary edema patient down the hall.

 

[anonperson]

Purely placebo. Much as reiki, to which your username incidentally alludes. Like all placebos, has a small, select role. Otherwise, bull****.

Energy medicine isn't going to do a damn thing like the NIPPV or nitroglycerin drip is going to do for my pulmonary edema patient down the hall.

There's been articles and stuff about energy healing people on the internet. It's gotta be true.

 

[Goro]

I ran across a few articles about alternative medicine and I want to ask if any of you believe in energy medicine.

I think a lot of medical professionals would compared "energy medicine" as "alternative medicine" and any alternative medicine has placebo effect in the body. This placebo effect might even work just as well as the regular medication.

Please share what's your opinion on the energy medicine. Thank you

There is no alternative medicine. There is only medicine that works and medicine that doesn't work.

• Richard Dawkins (2003) A Devil's Chaplain.

By definition, alternative medicine has either not been proved to work or been proved not to work. Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work? Medicine.

• Tim Minchin, "Storm".

We hate Big Pharma. We hate big government. We don’t trust The Man. And we shouldn’t. Our health care system sucks. It’s cruel to millions of people. It’s absolutely astonishingly cold and soul-bending to those of us who can even afford it. So we run away from it, and where do we run? We leap into the arms of Big Placebo.

• Michael Specter, The danger of science denial, TED Talks.

Just because something triggers a placebo effect doesn't mean that it's Medicine.

• Goro

 

[FutureInternist]

There is no alternative medicine. There is only medicine that works and medicine that doesn't work.

• Richard Dawkins (2003) A Devil's Chaplain.

By definition, alternative medicine has either not been proved to work or been proved not to work. Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work? Medicine.

• Tim Minchin, "Storm".

We hate Big Pharma. We hate big government. We don’t trust The Man. And we shouldn’t. Our health care system sucks. It’s cruel to millions of people. It’s absolutely astonishingly cold and soul-bending to those of us who can even afford it. So we run away from it, and where do we run? We leap into the arms of Big Placebo.

• Michael Specter, The danger of science denial, TED Talks.

Just because something triggers a placebo effect doesn't mean that it's Medicine.

• Goro

Did you just quote yourself?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The problem is: if placebos actually work for some soft outcomes, should we employ them when we have few/no other options?

 

[PlutoBoy]

I ran across a few articles about alternative medicine and I want to ask if any of you believe in energy medicine.

I think a lot of medical professionals would compared "energy medicine" as "alternative medicine" and any alternative medicine has placebo effect in the body. This placebo effect might even work just as well as the regular medication.

Please share what's your opinion on the energy medicine. Thank you

Never heard of it. I assume it doesn't work.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Moving as OP is not a physician and this is not related to general residency issues

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

If there are good results from double blind clinical trials that are peer reviewed and can be repeated then I'd have no problem with it.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

As long as you don't use it instead of real medicine and it doesn't hurt you, fine. Basically like any placebo, if it makes you feel psychologically better then sure, have at it. The problem is when people consider it equivalent to actual evidence based medicine. Interestingly enough, I have had a few patients consult reiki "practicioners" to "help them heal" (incidentally correlated with amount of money spent, ahem)...but that didn't stop them from letting me fix their broken bones.


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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I’ll have to find it, but I read a paper where patients were given a placebo for something like the flu and told it was a placebo to see if the placebo effect could be used as a supplementary treatment. I don’t remember all the details, but I do remember that even though the patients who got the placebo were told it was a placebo, they still reported feeling better sooner than the patients who only had symptomatic relief.

Obviously this has utility limited to patients who are otherwise healthy and have self-limiting diseases. Still interesting.

 

[LizzyM]

This is a classic... and there is a grain of truth to it in terms of outcomes and side effects associated with placebos.

https://www.theonion.com/fda-approves-sale-of-prescription-placebo-1819567087

 

[Mad Jack]

You don't get better. It doesn't make you better. It's fake.

The placebo effect can help you get better, but only in certain conditions. A placebo is more effective than nothing in a good number of cases, and what areas can most benefit from the placebo effect are a pretty exciting area of research.

Here's What Placebos Can Heal—And What They Can't

 

[Mad Jack]

The problem is: if placebos actually work for some soft outcomes, should we employ them when we have few/no other options?

If placebos work for some soft outcomes and are as effective as conventional options, should they displace those conventional options? I mean, we've got a good number of studies showing that, for instance, sham orthopedic procedures are as effective as real orthopedic procedures, and that both are more effective than doing nothing. So like... Do we keep doing procedures we have found to be only as effective as sham procedures, do we do sham procedures, or do we do nothing despite it having worse outcomes than either?

 

[LizzyM]

If placebos work for some soft outcomes and are as effective as conventional options, should they displace those conventional options? I mean, we've got a good number of studies showing that, for instance, sham orthopedic procedures are as effective as real orthopedic procedures, and that both are more effective than doing nothing. So like... Do we keep doing procedures we have found to be only as effective as sham procedures, do we do sham procedures, or do we do nothing despite it having worse outcomes than either?

Is the sham procedure cheaper and safer than the standard procedure, just as effective, and more effective than doing nothing? Then do the sham, I say.

 

[Perrotfish]

The placebo effect can help you get better, but only in certain conditions.

That's not really the point. The reason we don't prescribe placebos is that, for more than a century, we have realized it is unethical. It's robbery to charge for it, it short circuits the grieving process by giving false hope, and it undermines the public's faith in both our profession and in science.

If you are going to throw out the last century of ethics and start precribing placebos, for f--ks sake just do it and cut out the middlman. Prescribe a miracle cure that is actually a sugar pill. Then at least you can keep your patients away from quacks who will upsell then to more expensive forms of alternative therapies, and who will undermine their already tenuous grasp of modern science. NEVER refer to a reiki healer, chiropractor, herbalist, or any other form of anti science nonsense.

 

[Mad Jack]

That's not really the point. The reason we don't prescribe placebos is that, for more than a century, we have realized it is unethical. It's robbery to charge for it, it short circuits the grieving process by giving false hope, and it undermines the public's faith in both our profession and in science.

If you are going to throw out the last century of ethics and start precribing placebos, for F--ks sake just do it and cut out the middlman. Prescribe a miracle cure that is actually a sugar pill. Then at least you can keep your patients away from quacks who will upsell then to more expensive forms of alternative therapies, and who will undermine their already tenuous grasp of modern science. NEVER refer to a reiki healer, chiropractor, herbalist, or any other form of anti science nonsense.

If placebos are more helpful than doing nothing, and the first rule of medicine is to do no harm, are we not doing our profession and patients a disservice by not prescribing a treatment that (in many diseases) has tangible, reproducible benefit?

I think we should find the most reliable, most effective, least expensive placebos possible. But I think placebos do have a place in medicine, we just need to find out exactly where.

 

[IlDestriero]

The only energy medicine I believe in is mitochondrial energy Medicine.
There’s increasing evidence that mitochondria and their function, or dysfunction, contribute to a number of conditions in ways that we still haven’t fully explored.


--
Il Destriero

 

[Mad Jack]

The only energy medicine I believe in is mitochondrial energy Medicine.
There’s increasing evidence that mitochondria and their function, or dysfunction, contribute to a number of conditions in ways that we still haven’t fully explored.


--
Il Destriero

You know, I once heard they're the powerhouse of the cell...

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

The only energy medicine I believe in is mitochondrial energy Medicine.
There’s increasing evidence that mitochondria and their function, or dysfunction, contribute to a number of conditions in ways that we still haven’t fully explored.


--
Il Destriero

Not to be confused with midichlorians...


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[Lucca]

It's not even fair to compare this to voodoo. Voodoo at least has a rich cultural tradition running through hundreds of years of history of the indigenous people of the Caribbean and the African diaspora.

Energy medicine was made up by some loon to make a quick buck.

 

[Perrotfish]

If placebos are more helpful than doing nothing, and the first rule of medicine is to do no harm, are we not doing our profession and patients a disservice by not prescribing a treatment that (in many diseases) has tangible, reproducible benefit?.

Again, there is no such thing as a harmless placebo. The erosion of a patient's trust in science is a harm. It harms the patient and also their entire society. It's a harm that will always outweigh whatever moderate symptomatic relief the patient might get.

We are, for most of society, the only real science education they get after high school. They are exposed to a dozen people a day that are SURE that we are lying to them for the sake of robbing them, and the real answer to all of their health problems is healing energy/ positive thinking/ ancient Chinese rituals/ exorcisms. We need to be just as sure when we sell them on science, or why would they listen to us?

 

[Mad Jack]

Again, there is no such thing as a harmless placebo. The erosion of a patient's trust in science is a harm. It harms the patient and also their entire society. It's a harm that will always outweigh whatever moderate symptomatic relief the patient might get.

We are, for most of society, the only real science education they get after high school. They are exposed to a dozen people a day that are SURE that we are lying to them for the sake of robbing them, and the real answer to all of their health problems is healing energy/ positive thinking/ ancient Chinese rituals/ exorcisms. We need to be just as sure when we sell them on science, or why would they listen to us?

A placebo is not a treatment that does not work. It is a treatment that often does work, through some mechanism we don't fully understand. So it's not like lowering offering a placebo is medicine that doesn't work, it's medicine that often does provide tangible and scientifically proven benefit. If I had a dollar for every attending I had give a patient albuterol for a cough, for shortness of breath that could in no way be affected by the mechanism of albuterol, or to help clear upper airway secretions I'd be retired before I even started medical school. But you know what? Those albuterol treatments substantially reduced their anxiety, their perceived shortness of breath, and their perception of the severity of their cough and upper airway mucus clearance. I protested every damn time because I felt like you about it- no mechanism, all placebo, it's not worth doing- but now that I've been on the other side in an inpatient unit and watched those patients go from an anxiety level of 7/10 to 1/10 about their shortness of breath all because of a treatment that isn't doing anything, who am I to say they should suffer that anxiety of we've got a way to alleviate it? Furthermore, they might have worse outcomes secondary to their hyperventilation from anxiety causing shunting and increased respiratory effort, so I could be providing both subjectively and objectively worse care for just having not given them a placebo.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

We seem to judge the effect of "alternative" or "eastern" therapies differently than we do a pharma or procedural treatment. Why? If there is a gold standard of treatment, then a rigorous, powerful RCT should be used to determine the usefulness and efficacy of the treatment.

Look, CBT used to be thought of as useless, but there have been RCTs done to test its efficacy both in place of or with nicotine replacement, varenicline, etc. Allicin, the active ingredient in garlic has been studied and shown to have synergistic effects when used with cipro or metronidazole for H.pylori, C. diff, etc.

So, for me personally, if you want me to see the direct, therapeutic benefit of any therapy, you have to show me the data.

 

[rabbott1971]

You cannot administer placebos in place of actual medicine, or actual procedures. Patients cannot be lied to about their treatment. And if you tell them the truth, then you destroy the placebo effect.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You cannot administer placebos in place of actual medicine, or actual procedures. Patients cannot be lied to about their treatment. And if you tell them the truth, then you destroy the placebo effect.

That actually may not be true. If I ever remember when I have time, I'll look for the paper I read in which patients were given a placebo and were told that it was a placebo. The placebo effect still occurred. It's not unethical to give a patient a placebo if you tell them it's a placebo, particularly if the placebo is as effective as other options and more effective than doing nothing.

 

[atomi]

Yes, high energy X-rays are used to kill cancer cells. However, they also damage normal cells and can cause cancer.

What these idiots waving their hands and curing cancer with reiki and sh’t don’t realize is that if energy can heal, it sure as hell can harm you.

It’s a scam. They will also try to peddle you their gluten free glutard sh’t.

 

[hands_superior]

thanks for the response everyone!

I met someone who had some energy worker did some bad things on her because my friend kept on arguing with the friends of the energy worker. My friend went through what the internet and energy workers called "psychic attack." To me this means emotional abuse and it can cause physical problems too; the social workers and therapists can understand this mental abuse.

To keep it short, my friend had some "psychic attack" and she thought she was going crazy and stuff because of all of the symptoms she had. During the psychic attack, her friends and family were giving her problems and she got stressed out badly to the point where her heart rate increased abnormally and she had other emotional issues too. I think the medical diagnoses that fit her symptoms were anxiety and depression. The stuff that she went through made her heart rate increase to 120/min when she is in a crowded place and she has always been a healthy person.

Like I said I think energy work/healing is more of a change in the mentality and perception of the client. And I think when it is used for a bad cause, it can seriously stress the mind and cause serious physical symptoms.

 

[hands_superior]

Yes, high energy X-rays are used to kill cancer cells. However, they also damage normal cells and can cause cancer.

What these idiots waving their hands and curing cancer with reiki and sh’t don’t realize is that if energy can heal, it sure as hell can harm you.

It’s a scam. They will also try to peddle you their gluten free glutard sh’t.

yes I agree! energy can harm you.

Also I think what they called energy is basically "body heat" to me.

 

[hands_superior]

yes I agree! energy can harm you.

Also I think what they called energy is basically "body heat" to me.

I mean "Also I think what they called energy healing is basically "body heat" to me.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

You cannot administer placebos in place of actual medicine, or actual procedures. Patients cannot be lied to about their treatment.

Actually, yes you can. If a patient agrees to enter a trial, they are told that they may either get a therapy or placebo. However, as I think you were intending, in general practice, you cannot deny a standard of care when one exists.