Do you ever feel like you're selling out as a pre-med?

[jd989898]

I've always loved math and science, especially math. I talked with a math PhD student today who was telling me about how math changes as you get higher in your education. He actually told me that counting to 3 is to calculus as calculus is to the math that you eventually learn. This made me feel like I'll never truly understand things mathematically to my full potential. I kind of think about the world in terms of building blocks. Math describes physics, which is basically the study of the building blocks of our universe and its properties, and then chemistry and biology are just applications of those building blocks. I sort of feel like I'm missing out on the most pure and fundamental knowledge that I would gain from learning advanced math and physics. If the career prospects weren't so terrible, and I didn't want to be a doctor more than anything, I would definitely get a PhD in pure math or theoretical physics, which I believe would be at least 10x as hard as completing med school/residency.

Thoughts?

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[chillaxbro]

I've always loved math and science, especially math. I talked with a math PhD student today who was telling me about how math changes as you get higher in your education. He actually told me that counting to 3 is to calculus as calculus is to the math that you eventually learn. This made me feel like I'll never truly understand things mathematically to my full potential. I kind of think about the world in terms of building blocks. Math describes physics, which is basically the study of the building blocks of our universe and its properties, and then chemistry and biology are just applications of those building blocks. I sort of feel like I'm missing out on the most pure and fundamental knowledge that I would gain from learning advanced math and physics. If the career prospects weren't so terrible, and I didn't want to be a doctor more than anything, I would definitely get a PhD in pure math or theoretical physics, which I believe would be at least 10x as hard as completing med school/residency.

Thoughts?

You could always study Math on your own free time.

Try becoming a surgeon by yourself

 

[Lamel]

If being a doctor is your main goal, how are you selling out?

I get what you're saying OP...but at the same time if you want to learn the building blocks of math and physics, then become a mathematician.

 

[mcloaf]

Is it selling out for a mathematician not to go medical school?

 

[jd989898]

You could always study Math on your own free time.

Try becoming a surgeon by yourself

I do try to learn about math/physics in my free time, but that comes few and far between when I'm trying to focus on being a pre-med (which is very time consuming).

If being a doctor is your main goal, how are you selling out?

I get what you're saying OP...but at the same time if you want to learn the building blocks of math and physics, then become a mathematician.

I feel like I'm selling out because medical school seems like the easy way out. I never feel challenged in a biology class. It's always just like "here are hundreds of facts and observations, know them all". In math class, my mind is constantly exercised and has to use reasoning and application of knowledge.

 

[Lollygag]

You could always study Math on your own free time.

Try becoming a surgeon by yourself

WORD lol

I think comparing getting a PhD in math/physics and becoming a doctor is like comparing apples and oranges. It depends a lot on what you define as "hard" IMO

And I don't think I'm necessarily selling myself short going into medicine, I casually thought about doing pharmacy or optometry simply because it's easier/better lifestyles but decent pay etc but I don't think personally that I'm selling myself short going into medicine. If anything I think I'm making my life harder than it needs to be lol

 

[Roxas]

I have a friend who is currently working on his masters in mechanical engineering, who also thinks that physicians are stupid compared to engineers. This friend also has had a few bad experiences with doctors, not to mention his own set of issues (an unshakeable god complex for starters). While I agree that he has learned a level of math and physics I could never dream of, I think that medicine is difficult in its own right, and is definitely a respectable profession, even to mathematicians. We will all hopefully obtain an understanding of the body's systems, pathophysiology, ect. that would be deemed difficult by most other professions, so you shouldn't be worried about a lack of prestige. OP, like you said, if you want to do medicine more than anything in the world, thats what should be enough to make you happy. If your desire for a deeper understanding of math is what interests you more, than do that.

 

[jd989898]

I'm surprised. I figured I would have been violently flamed by now for claiming that a PhD in math/physics would be a lot harder than med school/residency. Do you guys agree? Surely med school is more voluminous in information and residency in time commitment, but in the rigor of study at least..

 

[Lollygag]

I feel like I'm selling out because medical school seems like the easy way out. I never feel challenged in a biology class. It's always just like "here are hundreds of facts and observations, know them all". In math class, my mind is constantly exercised and has to use reasoning and application of knowledge.

You've also never been to medical school give it some time. Come back during residency when you're working 80+ hours a week and we'll compare it then

 

[113]

Entry-level maths is all calculations.

Upper-level maths is rigorous proofs. **** that. I hated it.

 

[circulus vitios]

I'll save you all of the wondering: proofs suck and pure math sucks even more.

 

[mcloaf]

I feel like I'm selling out because medical school seems like the easy way out. I never feel challenged in a biology class. It's always just like "here are hundreds of facts and observations, know them all". In math class, my mind is constantly exercised and has to use reasoning and application of knowledge.

Oh, no big deal then. I hear getting into and doing well in medical school is a cake walk requiring minimal reasoning and knowledge.

 

[Roxas]

I feel like I'm selling out because medical school seems like the easy way out. I never feel challenged in a biology class. It's always just like "here are hundreds of facts and observations, know them all". In math class, my mind is constantly exercised and has to use reasoning and application of knowledge.

Is the goal to do what you want, or do what challenges you/sucks the most? I could go pick a fight with a professional boxer if I wanted to do something that sucks, or I could not....and be perfectly happy.

 

[Lollygag]

Is the goal to do what you want, or do what challenges you/sucks the most? I could go pick a fight with a professional boxer if I wanted to do something that sucks, or I could not....and be perfectly happy.

Idk.. I kinda like boxing lol if I thought I could win I'd totally do it

 

[Roxas]

Idk.. I kinda like boxing lol if I thought I could win I'd totally do it

haha I like boxing too. Pacquiao all the way! I wouldn't want to go fight him just for the challenge though...

 

[Lollygag]

haha I like boxing too. Pacquiao all the way! I wouldn't want to go fight him just for the challenge though...

Truee he's a beast

 

[MVP]

If your passion is pure math or theoretical physics, go do it. You'll enjoy doing it every day and things will work out.

If your passion is medicine but you don't think its challenging, I would argue that's not true. Biology is arguably more challenging than math and physics; life is infinitely complex and doesn't follow simple equations or models. In addition, the social aspect of medicine is challenging too: how to inspire your staff and patients, how to deliver efficient care, how to organize the health care system.

Health care is one of the biggest institutions in the country, and it is one of the most important in our daily lives. Every aspect of it-- administration, policy, research, technology, and actual practice-- depends on the innovation and leadership of physicians.

Undergrad bio classes are dumb, true. And being a premed is a tiresome process. But it gets better, I hope haha. The opportunities and challenges are out there.

 

[MaenadsDance]

I get you. I love math (though I don't think I have the intellectual chops to move much past multivariable Calc/differential equations), and I really, really love geometry. I love the feeling I get out of a math class, like my mind is as stretched and languorous and sore as the body is after going for a swim. The beauty of the most purely intellectual of the disciplines (math, and also philosophy) is alluring. Ultimately I decided I would be happier living in the practical world of medicine and visiting the intellectual world, but that may not be the decision you make.

 

[weezynation]

I do try to learn about math/physics in my free time, but that comes few and far between when I'm trying to focus on being a pre-med (which is very time consuming).



I feel like I'm selling out because medical school seems like the easy way out. I never feel challenged in a biology class. It's always just like "here are hundreds of facts and observations, know them all". In math class, my mind is constantly exercised and has to use reasoning and application of knowledge.

Although you have to memorize a lot of facts in medical school, your idea of Biology is a pre-med curriculum perspective. I agree that pre-reqs are more memorization than anything else. There is much more application and thought needed in medical school courses. Plus all that memorization you did learning every intermediate and enzyme in the Urea Cycle that helped you get a 260 Step 1 score isn't going to help you much when you are in the OR as a neurosurgeon (for example). In saying all that, doing math makes me cringe so I am very glad I chose to pursue medicine. Which one is more difficult? It's subjective in my opinion. I'd love to see a math PhD student who dislikes Biology as much as I hate math get through all of Renal Physiology in one week and see how they feel about medicine. The sheer volume of material and in depth understanding needed would make some people cry.

 

[EnginrTheFuture]

I do try to learn about math/physics in my free time, but that comes few and far between when I'm trying to focus on being a pre-med (which is very time consuming).

I feel like I'm selling out because medical school seems like the easy way out. I never feel challenged in a biology class. It's always just like "here are hundreds of facts and observations, know them all". In math class, my mind is constantly exercised and has to use reasoning and application of knowledge.

I feel you on this one! Although I fortunately/unfortunately majored in essentially what you are talking about My advice, watch engaging theoretical physics videos and lectures online! It is far less time consuming than taking a course, and usually much easier to grasp than what classes will make you do (derivations and complicated problems). You won't be great at applying theory because you won't practice it much, but you will still learn the hows/whys/our best descriptions of the universe. This seems like what you are interested in doing anyway. Not to mention you can learn at your own pace and speed up, slow down, pause, fall asleep... do whatever you want. Here are some of my favorites:

Feynman's 4 part lecture on the basics of quantum electrodynamics (I have a feeling you will really enjoy this or pretty much any video with him in it. I feel most students that take basic physics would enjoy this actually, because he describes what we already learned in basic physics via QED)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLQ2atfqk2c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMSgE62S6oo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNNXD7fuE5E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UigjOJm6F9o

Paul Callaghan explains MRI and NMR in 10 lectures:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aRKAXD4dAg

Stanford's modern physics class on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWe9brUwO0Q

Stanford's General Relativity intro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRZgW1YjCKk&list=SPpGHT1n4-mAvcXwzOIz3dHnGZaQP1LEib&index=10

Entire Nuclear Physics Fundamentals and Application course (thick indian accent but good material):
http://www.youtube.com/course?list=EC907E24DB6A5CD46E

And screw it, here are all the school's youtube playlists that have awesome stuff for freaking FREE:

MIT: http://www.youtube.com/user/MIT/videos?flow=grid&view=1
UCBerk: http://www.youtube.com/user/UCBerkeley/videos?flow=grid&view=1
Stanford: http://www.youtube.com/user/StanfordUniversity/videos?flow=grid&view=1

There is so much out there to learn for free. I haven't really gotten into mathematical videos because, unlike physics, I got sick of complex math by the end of college. For me, math tends to get more and more specific as you learn it (like building more refined tools) whereas physics still keeps a big picture. That is why I got bored of math

Don't feel like your selling out, you have a lot of life left to learn. Imagine how hard it was to learn this stuff 30 years ago. The time it would take, and the limited resources to learn modern physics then would be such a large barrier. Now you can do this 100x faster and more efficiently...

Hope this helps you procrastinate!!! The second link I sent is a good one to fall asleep to.

 

[Narmerguy]

If you feel that way, take a look into some of the medical research being done. Though it isn't as fundamental as physics, that makes it no less important for society and science in general. If anything, I would say we need brighter minds going into medical research and making discoveries.

I get what you mean, I was a biophysics major in college and I felt by being a premed that I was selling out. I've come to realize that that is a naive view, and that there is as much a need (if not more) for good scientists in the medical world. Just think about the people who elucidated the nature of stem cells, cell cycle proteins, DNA repair mechanisms, etc etc. That's good fundamental stuff

 

[Barnosaur]

I guess you just need to come to terms with the fact that there is infinite information in the universe and you'll never be capable of learning everything you want. Narrowing your studies is something every student eventually needs to do, and it's a very personal choice

 

[tco]

Go into radiology. They have to understand the physics behind their imaging thoroughly.

 

[Barcu]

I've always loved math and science, especially math. I talked with a math PhD student today who was telling me about how math changes as you get higher in your education. He actually told me that counting to 3 is to calculus as calculus is to the math that you eventually learn. This made me feel like I'll never truly understand things mathematically to my full potential. I kind of think about the world in terms of building blocks. Math describes physics, which is basically the study of the building blocks of our universe and its properties, and then chemistry and biology are just applications of those building blocks. I sort of feel like I'm missing out on the most pure and fundamental knowledge that I would gain from learning advanced math and physics. If the career prospects weren't so terrible, and I didn't want to be a doctor more than anything, I would definitely get a PhD in pure math or theoretical physics, which I believe would be at least 10x as hard as completing med school/residency.

Thoughts?

It's not selling out if you actually want to be a doctor. It sounds like you may not be so sure, so take the time to make the right decision. I would agree with you that a math PhD would be significantly harder. I did not like math. But medicine does have it's own challenges and it's own rewards. Having to memorize vast amounts of info gets boring and seems dull. But the real challenge comes later dealing with people and applying what you learned, both the science and your communication skills. Whether this is harder than math or more rewarding than math really depends on the individual person.

Go into radiology. They have to understand the physics behind their imaging thoroughly.

This is a good thought. As well as other posters who mentioned research. Going to med school for the sole purpose of research may be a bit of a roundabout road. However, if you do like the medicine aspect of seeing patients and want to mix that with research, there are ways to do that in medicine. This research can include physics such as in radiology. Look at this option if you are considering med school but want to do more physics/math.

 

[galaxyx]

I'd just like to point out that the job prospects of having a PhD in math or physics is not limited. In fact they're very unlimited in that you could work in medicine (medical physicist in rad onc), Investment Banking (they'll love you), Politics (think tanks, political machines, etc), Academics (probably what you were thinking of limited and bad environment), cutting edge research(CERN, etc.), Aerospace (space X types hire smart people to play with stuff and come up with ideas), Insurance (actuary), and so on... But I 100% believe its harder to get a PhD in physics or math than medicine. I know plenty of people who ended up with a Masters or even PhD in "Physics Education" because they didn't want to have to think that hard or got bored part way through and took the easy road and did a project on how to teach physics rather than coming up with original hard science research.