Do you have to be an A student to be successful in Pharmacy School?

[874700]

Hello, I have heard that students who apply for pharmacy school must be smart and have most A's in undergraduate in order to success in pharmacy school. What do you all think?

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[BC_89]

Hello, I heard that students who apply for pharmacy school must be smart and have most A's in undergraduate in order to success in pharmacy school. What do you all think?

1) Most students who get A’s in undergrad don’t apply to pharmacy school.

2) Getting all A’s in any pharmacy program is very difficult. It is memorization at high volumes while learning statutes and regulations. Pharmacology better be your best friend. That said, many aim for retail and try to coast on minimal grades and not be over-achievers.

To each their own

 

[Queen Of Pharmaceutics]

1) Most students who get A’s in undergrad don’t apply to pharmacy school.

2) Getting all A’s in any pharmacy program is very difficult. It is memorization at high volumes while learning statutes and regulations. Pharmacology better be your best friend. That said, many aim for retail and try to coast on minimal grades and not be over-achievers.

To each their own

Are you in Pharm school right now?

 

[BC_89]

Are you in Pharm school right now?

Was in pharmacy school some years ago going into the end of my second year. Left on good terms due to family obligations. A military career later, I’m back at it again.

 

[BC_89]

What do you think about the job saturation?

It exists.

Between my military pension, GI Bill, and veteran status, I won’t be pulling out any loans for my education. That said, anyone that must pull six figure debt with little to no experience with wages either dropping or stagnant, I’d be very cautious at going into this field with rose colored glasses.

 

[Xenophylia]

I graduated pharmacy school with a 4.0 GPA. Other than to satisfy myself it was completely unnecessary. All of those who barely scraped by graduated, passed the boards (some after several attempts), got jobs and had just as much success as I did. I realize now there is competition for residency, etc., so a good GPA would be helpful there. But those didn't exist when I was in school. All anyone cared was if you had a license....

 

[BidingMyTime]

Average GPA's for admittance to pharmacy schools are dropping, and it's not uncommon for schools to have GPA's as low as 2.75 in incoming students. However, getting admitted doesn't guarantee graduation, and graduation doesn't guarantee passing NAPLEX. Pharmacy is saturated now, and will be extremely saturated within the next 3 - 4 years. If you are extremely smart and have a high GPA, you will probably want to put your career fortunes elsewhere. If you are barely scraping by, especially in your science classes, it is a huge risk to go to pharmacy school, because you could easily flunk our, and/or not pass the NAPLEX (LOTS of threads here on this aboard from people this has happened to.) If you are middle of the road, 3.0 - 3.30, then you would probably be the right person for pharmacy school, low enough GPA that your options elsewhere are limited, but high enough that you should be smart enough to get through pharmacy school and pass the NAPLEX.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

Hello, I have heard that students who apply for pharmacy school must be smart and have most A's in undergraduate in order to success in pharmacy school. What do you all think?

You’re assuming that good undergraduate grades will translate to good pharmacy school grades but you’re asking the wrong question here. What you’re really trying to get at is whether good pharmacy school grades translates to job placement/security after graduation and the answer is a resounding NO. Unlike medical school or law school where grades DO matter (to get recruited by top firms or acquiring the clinical subspecialty of choice), this correlation does not exist in pharmacy school. Reason being that patients will pay top dollar to see a good physician or hire a good lawyer so it inherently creates competition based on merit, but nobody cares or even knows who their pharmacist is, they just care about which pharmacy fills their meds the fastest and gives them the least trouble.

So what do you call a 4.0 graduate of a top 3 pharmacy school? A pharmacist. And a 2.0 graduate of a diploma mill? Also a pharmacist. So this profession is not built on a merit-based system but rather it is about hustling and networking. It’s pathetic.

 

[AJBell]

I highly doubt it. Even if you have a great undergrad GPA, you'll come across some classes in school where you're likely to have some trouble as you go forward.

 

[Queen Of Pharmaceutics]

You’re assuming that good undergraduate grades will translate to good pharmacy school grades but you’re asking the wrong question here. What you’re really trying to get at is whether good pharmacy school grades translates to job placement/security after graduation and the answer is a resounding NO. Unlike medical school or law school where grades DO matter (to get recruited by top firms or acquiring the clinical subspecialty of choice), this correlation does not exist in pharmacy school. Reason being that patients will pay top dollar to see a good physician or hire a good lawyer so it inherently creates competition based on merit, but nobody cares or even knows who their pharmacist is, they just care about which pharmacy fills their meds the fastest and gives them the least trouble.

So what do you call a 4.0 graduate of a top 3 pharmacy school? A pharmacist. And a 2.0 graduate of a diploma mill? Also a pharmacist. So this profession is not built on a merit-based system but rather it is about hustling and networking. It’s pathetic.

Well actually you can say the same for a doctor. A med student that graduated with the lowest gpa allowable can still practice medicine. Grades become important when you want a competitive residency. The same thing happens with pharmacy graduates. Grades become very important in pharmacy school if you are trying to get a residency otherwise if you graduate and pass the boards you are okay.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

Well actually you can say the same for a doctor. A med student that graduated with the lowest gpa allowable can still practice medicine. Grades become important when you want a competitive residency. The same thing happens with pharmacy graduates. Grades become very important in pharmacy school if you are trying to get a residency otherwise if you graduate and pass the boards you are okay.

Wrong. Residency is mandated for physicians because you can’t practice without one so your performance in medical school directly affects your chances of getting a residency and by extension a job, whereas residency is optional for pharmacists so your performance in school only matters if you want to apply for a residency. This means that grades are ALWAYS important for medical students whereas grades are SOMETIMES important for pharmacy students - because if you’re a marginal medical student then you’re likely not even going to get a residency or need to go to the Carribeans to do residency in order to practice, but if you’re a marginal pharmacy student then you can always just skip out on applying for residencies and look for retail jobs. That is a world of difference there.

But to my point, pharmacists don’t use cognitive skills in their work unlike doctors, which is why pharmacy GPA does not matter or translate to real world practice. What’s the use in getting a 4.0 in pharmacy school when you’re not even using 1% of that knowledge when working as a retail pharmacist since 95% of your time is spent counting by fives and answering phone calls in a fast food restaurant-style setting? Compare that to your physician colleagues who have to be able to take patient histories, conduct physical assessments and come up with a differential diagnosis for patients they see (ALL WITHOUT CONSULTING UPTODATE OR LEXICOMP, mind you) as part of their basic competency so of course you want doctors who know what they’re doing (aka GPA and test scores matter).

 

[Queen Of Pharmaceutics]

Wrong. Residency is mandated for physicians because you can’t practice without one so your performance in medical school directly affects your chances of getting a residency and by extension a job, whereas residency is optional for pharmacists so your performance in school only matters if you want to apply for a residency. This means that grades are ALWAYS important for medical students whereas grades are SOMETIMES important for pharmacy students - because if you’re a marginal medical student then you’re likely not even going to get a residency or need to go to the Carribeans to do residency in order to practice, but if you’re a marginal pharmacy student then you can always just skip out on applying for residencies and look for retail jobs. That is a world of difference there.

But to my point, pharmacists don’t use cognitive skills in their work unlike doctors, which is why pharmacy GPA does not matter or translate to real world practice. What’s the use in getting a 4.0 in pharmacy school when you’re not even using 1% of that knowledge when working as a retail pharmacist since 95% of your time is spent counting by fives and answering phone calls in a fast food restaurant-style setting? Compare that to your physician colleagues who have to be able to take patient histories, conduct physical assessments and come up with a differential diagnosis for patients they see (ALL WITHOUT CONSULTING UPTODATE OR LEXICOMP, mind you) as part of their basic competency so of course you want doctors who know what they’re doing (aka GPA and test scores matter).

I know residency is required for doctors, but you don’t need a 4.0 to get one. If you aren’t competitive you will most likely be stuck with family practice or pathology residencies but you will be able to get a non competitive residency.

Most people aren’t asking their primary care doctors what their med school gpa is because it is irrelevant if they graduated and passed their boards.

Also gpa and test scores do not always translate to how well a doctor you are.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

I know residency is required for doctors, but you don’t need a 4.0 to get one. If you aren’t competitive you will most likely be stuck with family practice or pathology residencies but you will be able to get a non competitive residency.

Most people aren’t asking their primary care doctors what their med school gpa is because it is irrelevant if they graduated and passed their boards.

Also gpa and test scores do not always translate to how well a doctor you are.

Those are again myths and not facts. The fact is that only 79.6% of medical students matched to residency this year despite 100% of them applying, which demonstrates that getting into an “easier” specialty is not a gimmick:

Residency Data & Reports

The latest Match results and data for the Main Residency Match.

www.nrmp.org

As to test scores and GPAs not correlating well to how you would be as a practicing doctor, I think there is a valid generalization there based on other examples such as SAT scores/high school GPAs with college success or pharmacy GPA with job/residency success (this thread) but let me just say that all tests are not made equal. I would suggest you look up examples of shelf exams that med students take which are much more practical (and therefore directly translatable to the real world) than the exams pharmacy students take.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Wrong. Residency is mandated for physicians because you can’t practice without one so your performance in medical school directly affects your chances of getting a residency and by extension a job, whereas residency is optional for pharmacists so your performance in school only matters if you want to apply for a residency. This means that grades are ALWAYS important for medical students whereas grades are SOMETIMES important for pharmacy students -

Wrong, first of all, many medical schools don't even give out grades, just honors/pass fail. Also as long as a doctor passes medical school and isn't a complete psychopath, there is a family residency somewhere in the country that will take them. Their first board, Step 1 scores are extremely important for doctors in getting their choice and location of residency. But to just get literally any residency so they can practice, then all they need to do is pass Step 1.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Those are again myths and not facts. The fact is that only 79.6% of medical students matched to residency this year despite 100% of them applying, which demonstrates that getting into an “easier” specialty is not a gimmick:

The thing is, that # includes IMG's, Carribean graduates, and people retrying for residency from previous years. All of these people have far lower shots at residency, then the standard US graduate, which is what we are discussing here.

Residency Match

From the above thread: "It would seem of the 930 US seniors who dont get a slot, at least 500, likely closer or over 600 eventually do. Ultimately, perhaps at most 400, likely under 300 of the 19,000 plus who graduate a year do not ultimately get a residency slot at some point or under 2% at most. "

 

[PharmtoCS]

Admission standards to MD/DO schools are a lot tougher than for pharmacy schools.

Even the doctor who graduated at the bottom of the class had to jump through many hoops which includes getting stellar grades, MCAT score, extracurriculars, volunteer experience, etc. which weeds out many those who are unmotivated or otherwise not cut out to handle the rigors of the medical school curricum.

Pharmacy schools, on the other hand, will accept who has a pulse and qualifies for $200k+ in student loans.

 

[deleted562805]

Wrong, first of all, many medical schools don't even give out grades, just honors/pass fail. Also as long as a doctor passes medical school and isn't a complete psychopath, there is a family residency somewhere in the country that will take them. Their first board, Step 1 scores are extremely important for doctors in getting their choice and location of residency. But to just get literally any residency so they can practice, then all they need to do is pass Step 1.

True,but I would say both Board Exams are important.even if do well in Step1, and Fail Step2, you will not get the residency of your choice. Step1 involves just the basic sciences- Pharm, Biochem, Micro, Cell Bio, Biostats, Pathology, Physiology, and Anatomy and Physiology and Histology. Step2- involves applying Clinical knowledge based on each organ system you learned in your 3rd year rotations, plus an OSCE with a mock patient, where you perform an exam and write a SOAP note. Both exams are crucial for matching into residency. the former measures competency in the basic sciences and measures how well you understand the fundamentals of medicine the latter reflects real life clinical practice and what is expected in residency. and you cannot just pass these exams because the score determines where you will get matched. GPA matters too for the higher specialities like Dermatology and Surgery.
The only exams you just need to pass are USMLE step 3 because you are already a resident and the program is just measuring competency, and the Boards of specialties after completing a residency.

USMLE: lowest is 180 and highest is 300.

1. For Family Medicine/Primary care ( pediatrics, psychiatrist, and OBGYN) - because the demand is needed, they will make Family Med competitive to an extent. you need at least a 190 to 200
2. Internal medicine internist- score of 200
3. Any score above 200 but less than 260- qualifies you in anesthesiology, neurology, cardiology, rheumatology, immunology, infectious disease, gastroenterology.
4. scores 260 and above- qualify for surgery and dermatology.

This is for MD students. for DO students, you forget about Dermatology, and Surgery. what you can shoot for is Internal med with fellowship in a speciality. For Carribean, it is crapshoot and the stakes are extremely high, you need a 260 or above on both Step1 and Step2 board exams just to get even Family Medicine or Primary care residency. So Grades and scores do Matter in Medical school.

 

[deleted562805]

No, but you have to be straight A/Rho Chi student at a minimum to get a pharmacy residency, now a days.

 

[deleted562805]

You’re assuming that good undergraduate grades will translate to good pharmacy school grades but you’re asking the wrong question here. What you’re really trying to get at is whether good pharmacy school grades translates to job placement/security after graduation and the answer is a resounding NO. Unlike medical school or law school where grades DO matter (to get recruited by top firms or acquiring the clinical subspecialty of choice), this correlation does not exist in pharmacy school. Reason being that patients will pay top dollar to see a good physician or hire a good lawyer so it inherently creates competition based on merit, but nobody cares or even knows who their pharmacist is, they just care about which pharmacy fills their meds the fastest and gives them the least trouble.

So what do you call a 4.0 graduate of a top 3 pharmacy school? A pharmacist. And a 2.0 graduate of a diploma mill? Also a pharmacist. So this profession is not built on a merit-based system but rather it is about hustling and networking. It’s pathetic.

So true. I will add that unfortunately, the role of a pharmacist with a residency does not truly differentiate you from a staff pharmacist that did not do residency for most specialties. Whereas, Doctors based on their skill level differentiate themselves.

 

[Xenophylia]

Yeah- its been said many times before, but what you need to get into and succeed in pharmacy school these days is:

1. a pulse (optional)
2. lots and lots of $$$$ (doesn't matter if its really yours or the government's- schools don't ask questions much like the criminals they are....)

And it's also true that pharmacy schools (and the "profession" in general) encourage mediocrity. "C's get degrees" is the working motto. Once you get into the workforce you're going to be thought of as a "doormat with a license" by your retail overlords (usually managers with a community college education at best who will loathe you because you think you're "smarter"). Overachievers will only burn themselves out, so that sort of personality type will often not survive outside of academia. If you want to really set yourself apart and compete for those non existent clinical unicorn jobs, you can get those A's, spend more $$$$ and do multiple years of residency to differentiate yourself from the less "motivated". Then later, you'll curse yourself even harder while you're bagging someone's groceries and wondering why you made such a horrible life choice.... Good luck!

 

[EyeC92]

Hello, I have heard that students who apply for pharmacy school must be smart and have most A's in undergraduate in order to success in pharmacy school. What do you all think?

Not true. Just be a competitive applicant. Private msg me for more info. I'm here to help.