do you prefer to be a GP or a specialist?

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Dear all

I love all domaines in Dentistry, basically there is nothing that I don't like, but meanwhile, I am also wondering if I should go for a specialization eventually. ( Maybe after working for a few years... )
Could you please share with me your experiences or what you know about the advantages and disadvantages of being a GP vs a specialist?

Here is what I heard from GPs and Specialists

GP
-- work is relatively less stressful
-- can work on a variety of things
-- less likely to have law suite problem, because trouble cases can be referred to specialists

Specialists

-- work is more professional
-- cases are more challenging
-- patients are referred / screened
-- salary is higher
-- less likely to have law suite problem, because for the same type of work ( like ortho, perio surgery) specialists are less likely to be questioned for their professionalism....

thanks
any input is appreciated
 
You can make a lot of money in general dentistry. It makes me laugh how people automatically assume that you won't make any money as a GP. And that the only road to riches is through specializing.

And I understand why. I would say that 75% of dentists have no business sense, common sense and networking skills. I suppose that should make sense since they are essentially scientists But if you have any personality whatsoever and you aren't afraid to assume some risk, you can make a lot of money as a GP. I personally know several GP's who net more than 500K per year. Granted, they bought pratices and they networked like crazy but it can be done.

You could have a practice up and running by the time it takes to complete your residency. For example, my college buddy and close friend worked for a 1.5 years as an associate. He bought a practice that was generating over 600K in revenue. It's been 2 years and his practice is already generating over 800K in revenue. And he is only 28. He expects to gross 1 million shortly. He is a very good dentist so he is an excellent reputation. His hand skills and personality are top notch. His OMS colleagues are still in residency. And when they get out, it will probably take them another 2-3 years to ramp up and start earning close to what he is earning.
 
Unless my grades and NBDE part I specify other wise! 😱

I have two reasons why I am aiming to specialize in OMFS after my 4 years of pre-doctoral dental education:

1) I enjoy the challenge. Although I have the success of matriculating into a great U.S. dental school, my drive to learn more will always fuel my academic endeavor. My motto has always been acheive as high as I can possibly get. I'm 28 now, will be 31 when I earn my D.M.D. and will be 35 (4-year OMFS residency) or 37 (6-year OMFS residency) by the time I'm all done.

A surgeon at 37, not bad at all in my books.

2) After learning about Head & Neck anatomy and seeing actual OMFS surgery cases. I enjoy and am fascinated by the ability of Oral & Maxillofacial Surgeons to put back together an entire facial structure after an accident! We're talking about not only esthetically, but also functionally. The opportunity of saving people lives by removing cancerous tumors and change people's self-esteem with reconstructive surgical procedures, hey that is what I want to do! What could be more rewarding than that?

Now, I can go on and on why I would want to do OMFS, but in reality it really has nothing to do with ego and/or income!! I know general practice has a tremendous potential to earn high salary as well as other dental specialties. Come on guys, we're in dentistry, no matter what we do, we'll have a great comfortable income!

It's all really about what you can see yourself doing and what you have passion in! Check this out, I can maybe be an OMFS for a professional NHL hockey team! How fun and cool would that be? Free full season tickets for two and you travel with the team on game nights! A lot of OMFS do that!

Also, I want to add that while a post-doctoral dental student is doing his/hers OMFS residency, (s)he is actually getting paid average $40K - $55K a year for the length of his/hers residency [NOTE: not all OMFS residencies pays for the medical (MD) education].

While majority of the other dental specialties do not get a stipend or paid, OMFS is the only dental specialty that gets paid at all residencies.

Oh, look what time it is...is time for me to study and chase that OMFS dream!! :clap:
 
Yah E

I didn't mean to implicate you. I have read enough of your posts to realize that you probably have a sincere interest in OMS. And many do have a genuine interest in it. If they only wanted money, they probably could have applied for other specialties.

But there is also a large percentage of OMS people who are doing it for the prestige and income. It's these people who bug me. I want to be an orthodontist but I have to be realistic. It's not going to be the end of the world for me if I become a GP.

A lot of pre-dents have no clue about general dentistry. They think it's the dental version of family practice medicine. They assume that their work will be the scutwork that no one else wants to do. The comment that general dentistry is less professional is a joke. General dentistry affords one tremendous flexibility. The beauty of general dentistry is that you can make what you want of your practice. You can focus on certain areas of dentistry. I know one GP who does mostly orthodontistry. I know another one who focuses on root canals despite him not being an endodontist. Others do cosmetic dentistry. Some do more peds than others. You can shape your practice in any way you see fit.

They look at a salary survey and they assume that they are destined to make 110K the rest of their lives. Most don't realize that very few general dentists remain associates the rest of their lives. Most buy practices. And many of these practices do quite well especially after 5 years in existance. So for those 3-5 years in a residency, a GP can build his or her practice. In addition, most specialities don't offer a stipend in dentistry. You can pay an additional 100K-200K just to get specialized.

So money can be made in any area of dentistry. Do what you love, but if you can't do it, don't sweat general dentistry. It's a great field.

Yah-E, I know you aren't saying this. But many pre-meds who are reading assume general dentistry means failure. That notion is silly.
 
The one thing about specialities that is tough is that some of the specialty work is dictated by the economy. Specifically, I'll reference orthodontics. When the economy is down, and the wallet is not as big, elective dental work becomes not as big of a necessity and business can be affected. A new orthodontist in my hometown has been struggling to put people in his chairs with the way the economy has been the last year or two. On the other hand, my friend who is a GP is still turning patients away b/c GP are the triage to the specialties.

I am not picking on orthodontics, but if you go into an area that offers more elective procedures, the work varies with the economy.
 
Well at this point since I am an undergrad it is hard to say whether i will specialize or not. First things first and that is get into dental school. I will worry about specializing after dental school starts..... Would be happy with gp, but will def consider specialization as well. Time will tell.
 
I would like to specialize, but my grades tell me otherwise. I'm still trying to adjust unfortunately.
 
Those of you who had their heart sent on OMS should have went to medical school instead if given the opportunity. It's a lot easier getting a General Surgery residency out of medical school than it is getting an OMS residency out of dental school.

As a general surgery resident, you can apply for fellowships in maxofacial surgery. Or you can just complete your general surgery residency and then apply for a fellowship. That would be 7 years of residency but most OMS residencies are anywhere from 5-7 years as well.

The difference is that it's more of a sure thing coming out of medical school. They have many general surgery residency spots that go unfilled. Most doctors shy away from surgery because of lifestyle. Thus general surgery is not a problem. And you don't have to be a top student to acquire those.

Even DO grads have no problem getting general surgery residencies. So if you don't have the grades to get into an MD program, just apply to a DO school. Because it's unlikely as a dental student that you will get OMS.
 
Zazzookode:

Wanting to be in OMFS, your discipline is dentistry first and foremost. Bread and butter of the specialty is 3rd molar extraction and dental implants. Trauma and hospital procedures are cool, but that's not what brings home the money.

Wanting to be in OMFS is not about getting that M.D., unless you're a previously failed medical school applicant and want to find an alternative route to get the M.D. title. Majority of OMFS are not double degreed OMFSs.

Medical school first, it's possible and it's an alternative, but not efficient. I am certain that there are M.D. and D.O. out there that have gone OMFS, but it is very very rare.

OMFS is a dental related specialty where dental anatomy and occlusion plays important roles diagnosis and treatment. Dental school first makes perfect sense. Remember, there are plenty OMFS residencies available that are 4-year programs.

I'm proud of my admittances dental programs and if I had to do it all over again, I'd apply to dental schools again and not medical schools. It's not the M.D. I want, it's OMFS certificate I'm aiming for. If I happen to earn that M.D. title in the process of my OMFS training, then it would still come behind my D.M.D. title when I sign my name.
 
Yah-E,

You really beat me to the punch on that one, but I couldnt have said it any better. Ill be starting this fall and also am very interested in OMS. Alot lately that I see on these fourms is starting to scare me but thats good. I actually might start a review of some of the 1st yr subjects soon. I have been cautioned about this however, so as not to burn myself out and have fun before all hell breaks loose in Aug. Good Luck on NBDE 1.😱
 
It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, you just don't know the facts. There are fields of dentistry and medicine that intersect. Oral surgery is one of these fields. Many general surgeons and ENT are trained in oral/maxofacial surgery. And many general surgeons do fellowships in oral/maxofacial surgery. It's not about MD vs. Dentistry. I'm not that petty and you obviously formed that opinion on your own.

You need to look beyond petty degrees and focus on what you want to do. I don't care if you have a DDS, MD or DO behind your name. That's not important. What is important is what you want to do in life. If you want to do oral maxofacial surgery and nothing else, then it would be smarter to go the physician route because the odds are on your side. It's much easier getting a general surgery residency as a medical student than it is for a dental student to get an OMS residency.

I'm only advising this because some of you act like general dentistry is not an option. If this was case, you guys really messed. You should have went the medical route. Your odds would have been better.
 
Zazookode, you may be right in some circumstances, but I think you're assuming too much. I imagine a lot of people going into OMS aren't super hyped about being on call and expecting to do long tedious facial reconstructions every week. A lot of OMS aspirants want to do the more "typical" office-based oral surgery - wizzies, implants, bone grafts, the occasional orthognathic surgery, TMJ cases, etc... These procedures are NOT done by ENTs or other medical specialists; their training is insufficient.

OMS is a dental specialty, and dental school is the right course to take to get there. I'm also mildly interested in OMS and I know if things didn't work out, I would be much happier being a general dentist than a general surgeon. 🙂
 
I want to be a GP, but I expect I'll flip-flop on that decision several times before I reach a conclusion. I honestly don't know enough right now to make that decision.

zazzookode, what the hell are you talking about, man? Excuse us for not knowing the facts.

You entire thesis (It is easier to get an OMS residency if you are a medical student than a dental student) is flawed from the get-go.

If all those dental students who pursue OMS knew that they wanted to be OMS prior to starting dental school, then perhaps medical school would be an easier route.

Given that it is truly difficult to determine a desired specialty prior to having received any type of clinical training whatsoever, this method of thinking is fallable in nearly 99.9% of the situations it may be applied to.

My understanding is that in your world, DDS graduates who desire to enter OMS should apply to medical schools and then apply to OMS residencies because it will be easier for them.

By the way, your prior comment "Even DO grads have no problem getting general surgery residencies" is embarrasing in and of itself.
 
I'm not talking about DDS students or graduates. I'm talking about pre-dents. Many of them want to go into OMS for sure. For those individuals, I recommend going directly into medical school. The odds are in your favor to do OMS that way through a general surgery residency.
 
I understand that you are referring to pre-dents. That is why your thesis is so illogical!

My point is that it is extremely difficult for somebody to choose a specialty prior to having any clinical training! In conjunction with this, most admissions directors/committees would laugh at a person in an interview who said they were 100% sure that they wanted to do OMS!

What if those predents who believe they want to do OMS begin medical school, only to find out that they DON'T want to do OMS, and would rather be a GP, or do Ortho, or Endo? They are stuck in medical school!
 
I understand that you are referring to pre-dents. That is why your thesis is so illogical!

My point is that it is extremely difficult for somebody to choose a specialty prior to having any clinical training! In conjunction with this, most admissions directors/committees would laugh at a person in an interview who said they were 100% sure that they wanted to do OMS!

You are speaking on behalf of every dental student who wants to pursue OMS. That's what I find utterly absurd. The truth is certain individuals don't need to experience clinicals to figure out what they want to do. They have a passion for a certain field based on their own research or work experience prior to dental school. Ideally, one should show some patience and decide what to do after experiencing clinicals. However, not everyone is GavinC. Some people are stubborn and they are going to do what's in their heart. So for you to call them illogical for thinking this way is extremely shortsighted. Are you saying Yah-E is naive because he is focused on OMS despite him being a first year student and not in clinicals?

What if those predents who believe they want to do OMS begin medical school, only to find out that they DON'T want to do OMS, and would rather be a GP, or do Ortho, or Endo? They are stuck in medical school!

And what if those predents still wanted to do OMS evern after undergoing clinicals? What if these students aren't ranked in the top 15% of their classs, then what? They will be forced to being a GP which is not what they wanted to do.. It goes both ways. And I assure you that this situation has happened on more than one occassion. I do know of some people who can't stand the thought of being a GP. One of my friends only likes OMS. In fact, this person has worked for an oral surgeon for the past 4 years. He is going to medical school because he knows his odds of getting into OMS is greater through medical school. He is realistic about his chances and he knows that it's extremely difficult acquiring OMS through dental school.

Finally, let's apply a little more common sense to the situation. Do you really think people who are gunning in dental school from day one have no idea what they want to do? HORSESH#$ Sorry, it doesn't work that way GavinC. The ones who want to specialize know they have to be in the top of their class. It's what motivates them to study. Of course, they aren't going to be stupid enough to tell an admssions committee that they are 100% sure they want to do ortho, but that's what they are thinking, otherwise they wouldn't be studying and never going out like some of their classmates.
 
just an uninformed question:

It seems to me some OMFS guys do lots of boring
wisdom-tooth exos and cyst biopsies, while others
get the cool stuff like face reconstruction or cleft lip/
palate repair. How is this path decided? Is it only
for the grads with highest marks or is it open to anyone
feeling up to the challenge?

I already know I am not headed to specialties, but
if I was talented and could choose anything I'd be
in oral surg too.
 
OMS is a dental specialty, and dental school is the right course to take to get there. I'm also mildly interested in OMS and I know if things didn't work out, I would be much happier being a general dentist than a general surgeon.

And that's fine but this is you. But for those students who would rather be a general surgeon than a general dentist, I suggest going to medical school.

You still don't get it. A general surgeon can get a fellowship in OMS. They don't even have to complete their general surgery residency. After the 3rd year, they can apply for fellowships and guess what that means.....TADA...they are joing other OMS grads from dental schools.

And once you are at the residency level, it's much easier getting fellowships because you have more power and flexibility in acquiring these fellowships. As opposed to being a dental student who has no experience other than their class rank and board scores to set them up.
 
GavinC wrote:

By the way, your prior comment "Even DO grads have no problem getting general surgery residencies" is embarrasing in and of itself.

Gavin

Go post this on the osteopathic board. I will enjoy reading the DO's embarrass you and tell you otherwise. But before you do, know that most allopathic general residency slots are going unfilled. Also, know that DO's not only have access to allopathic slots (especially unfilled ones) but their own DO residencies as well(allopaths don't have access to these residencies).

Aren't you the guy who was desperately talking up the Arizona school? Figures I wouldn't attend that trainwreck of a school. That school is nothing but money making scam that can't even afford to hire full time faculty.
 
Zazzookode:

Obviously you think you know what's going on, oh wait, hold on...you ONLY know one person that is going through medical school that wants to get into OMS. Great, we're all proud of you and thank you for letting us know that there is an alternative route to an OMS residency.

But you know what, I know many OMS resident "to be"s, but they've all gone through the traditional route of dental school first. If we take a survey of all new OMS PGY-1s, I can bet you everything I own that 99% of them are DMD/DDSs!

Better chances you speak of by going through medical school first?! I can guarantee you that if you survey all the OMS residency directors in the US, they will tell you that they would rather take a dental school graduate over a medical school graduate due to a better dental related education foundation.

You have to get through your thick frontalis that there is no advantage or disadvantage by going through medical school first. An OMS residency director will look at the medical school graduate and evaluate his/hers GPA, class rank, and USMLE scores in the similar fashion that he would look at a dental school graduate. If those statistics aren't competitive amongs the applicant's classmates and/or national standardize scores, the OMS director will not pick that medical student!

By the way, what are you? Are you even in dental school yet, are you a pre-dent, hell, are you an OMS or something? I'm wondering because I feel that I have a pretty strong grasp on what to do and how to get into an OMS residency! I've been in contact with numerous OMS residency program directors across the country since I knew that I am a dental student. I believe my sources are not only the best sources, but also most reliable sources!

It simply amazes me that you come in here and tells us that we don't know facts and other pre-dents are jokes for thinking about OMS and only OMS. You want Ortho, why don't you get straight "A"s during your first year Pre-doc first, then try to persuade others to apply to medical school if they want OMS.

I wish this debate would end, you know what you know and obviously I know more at this time. If you would like to post your last words about how you know medical school is better to get into OMS, then please feel free, then please move on and stop posting in this thread. I strongly believe that everyone that read this thread appreciates your suggestion, but no one will take up on it.

Simply put, dentistry rock and anyone can be what they want to be, if they work hard at it.....oh crap, I'm singing that one song now...
 
This is a situation in which my tone has gotten to some of you. Maybe if I spoke in a nice manner, you guys would actually pay attention to the details and not assume I'm saying something that I'm not.

-It's not about advantages, it's about spaces that are available. There are a lot more general surgery spaces available than there are OMS residency spots open for recent dental grads. Again, don't make this a petty issue.

-Yes, I do belittle those who enter OMS just for the money. You can make money in other fields of dentistry. It's one thing to enter OMS because you have a passion for the field, it's another thing to enter OMS because you think will rake it in and be a pseudo doctor. I don't see how anyone can disagree with these statements.

-If you want to do OMS and you are certain that is your passion and calling in life to the point that all other fields of dentistry are unappealing, I would go to medical school and try the general surgery route.

This is not an attack on dentistry. This is not a dentistry versus medicine concept. Please do not become that petty and unprofessional. Remember that dentistry is a form of medicine first and foremost so the distinction between the two fields shouldn't be seen as a rivalry. Grow up and look beyond that.

-Also question why nearly half of all OMS residencies result with one getting an MD. Hmmmmmmm, Zazzoo is on to something here. Yeah, if it's such a "dental only" specialty, why do most programs entail medical training. This just show how pathetic it is to make this a dental vs. medical argument. It just makes Yah-E look like a hypocrite.

Both physicians and dentists can specialize in OMS. YES, THEY CAN YAH-E!!!! If you were informed about the field, you would know this. But you aren't so you are making this a petty squabble about dentistry versus medicine. I could care less what initials you have behind your name. I would hope that someone who is passionate about OMS wouldn't care if DMD or MD is behind their name.

General surgery is becoming less competitive and even more unappealing. Due to managed care and lifestyle issues, many physicians are shying away from general surgery. Instead, they are opting for fields like dermatology, opthalmology, anesthesiology, emergency medicine, ENT and radiology. Unlike dental OMS residencies, MANY general surgery residencies go UNFILLED every year. That means you don't have to own stellar step 1 scores, class rank etc. Many foreign graduates are matching for these residencies which only strengthens my point.

-Do some research before assuming you think general surgery is as difficult to acquire. There are also far less OMS residencies compared to general surgery residencies even when taking into account the greater amount of medical students that exist in comparison to dental students.

-If you can see yourself as a general dentist as a backup plan, then by all means go to dental school. I would say most dental students feel this way. But I would say that a large percentage are really not into general dentistry as they are abour surgery. When I read threads belittling implants and discussing facelifts and other reconstructive features, I realize that these people are surgeons first and foremost. And they really have no desire for any aspect of general dentistry.

-I'm glad we have received these responses. It's apparent that people like Yah-E and Gavin are ignorant of the OMS route through medical school. That's probably why they are getting angry at me because they don't like being exposed. Most pre-dents are ignorant of this as well. This is why I posted this message. If your passion is for OMS, please consider the medical school route to attaining this specialty. Most pre-dents assume you have to go to dental school to pursue OMS. NOT TRUE!

It's sad that I met so much resistance by providing an informative option. 🙄
 
OMS is not the same thing as facial reconstructive surgery. Even an ENT does not perform exactly the same functions as an oral surgeon. The key is in the 'O' part of the ORAL Maxofacial Surgery. Yeah, plenty of physicians specialize in maxofacial surgery. But when a baseball player gets nailed in the mouth after a picth, they don't call the ENT or trauma surgeon. They call the call the closest OMS. The key difference is that a medical graduate doesn't have dental training. They are not taught to cut teeth etc. To become an oral surgeon, one has to attend a dental school first.

If you want URL's, just let me know and I will be happy to provide them.

PSYCHO!!!
 
I have to agree. Maxillofacial surgeon is not the same as Oral and Maxillofacial surgeon. To be an OMFS, I am pretty sure you have to go to dental school and can't do it via a Gen. Surg route.
 
i have read that many people with facial trauma go to plastic surgeons and their jaws and teeth are not in place properly after surgery. what they should see are OMF specialists. so there is definitely a difference between the two, as a plastic surgeon would have no idea how to fix up malocclusions and such since they have no dental training.
 
this "debate" really does need to end soon. i feel a little obligated to throw in a few things first.

zazzo, you have made a few incorrect statements/assumptions. first, half of the OMS residency positions DO NOT lead to an MD. at the very best, non-md residencies outnumber md residencies by 3 to 1.

you need to do a little research. run a casual search of OMFS departments via the internet. first, you will notice that they are part of the college/school of dentistry at most schools. they are not part of the medical schools. there are a few exceptions, those mostly being programs in large cites (LA, NY, DC) that are hospital based.

after checking a few websites, you will notice that there are usually 3 or 4 positions available for 4 year non-md residencies, and 1 position per year for 6 year MD residencies...if MD residencies are even offered.

OMFS is without a doubt, a dental speciatly. ask the ADA. yah-e is right...99% of residents are DMD/DDS's.

however, i do believe that some of your argument has been misinterpreted.

after carefully reviewing your past threads, i think i understand what you are trying to say with your md vs. dds. comparison.

it's obvious that many predents show a desire for OMFS. however, earning an OMFS residency is far from simple. I think that you are inferring that given one's desire to perform surgical tasks, it might be easier to accomplish that goal going through a surgical residency via medical school. I agree wholeheartedly.

it is a known fact that many US surgical residencies are going unfilled. while it may be initially more difficult (statistically) to enter medical school, it is statistically easier to become a surigcal specialist upon graduation.

as such, you are inferring that the surgery is what students are after, not necessarily just OMFS.

given those inferences, you do make a valid case.

however, as a future dentist, there is something specifically attractive about OMFS. if I want to be an OMFS, I am better served (statistically) going the dental route. If I fall short, I'm just a GP. I do not want to be a surgeon, or an MD, and going the medical route would be worthless as such.

many dental students desire OMFS, but their second consideration would not necessarily be becoming a general surgeon MD. remember, we WANT to be dentists, then MAYBE oral surgeons.

please do correct me if i'm wrong about the point you were trying to make. unfortunately, i believe it came across too much along the lines that "dentists are just wannabe doctors." i do not believe that you intended for that.

as a side note, zazzo, it is worth noting that OMFS is not as difficult a specialty to acheive as you may think. there were roughly 2 applicants for every available US position last year. a 50% chance. that's not to say that those applicants were not highly qualified, but 50% is still fairly good in my books.

by the way, is anyone else as intrigued by the afforementioned "50%" statistic? it intrigues me becuase there are SO MANY sdners that express an interest in OMFS as predents ,first years, and even premeds. maybe less than desirable grades/board scores shy many potential OMFS applicants away. more likely it is the additional 4 to 6 years of school. nonetheless, a 50% shot should give anyone hope if OMFS is really their dream.
 
Originally posted by zazzookode

Go post this on the osteopathic board. I will enjoy reading the DO's embarrass you and tell you otherwise.

Dood, you completely missed my point. My point was that your initial comment ("Even DO grads have no problem getting general surgery residencies") was a complete slam on the DO community. I read it as, even THEY can get residencies-- as if they are a lesser part of the health community.

Originally posted by zazzookode
Aren't you the guy who was desperately talking up the Arizona school? Figures I wouldn't attend that trainwreck of a school. That school is nothing but money making scam that can't even afford to hire full time faculty.

Hey, thanks for your concern. I'm actually glad that you won't be attending Arizona, because it would really stink to have such an optimist as a classmate. Besides, "trainwreck of a school" is a pretty strong phrase. As you read my next paragraph, you will see that the dental community at large disagrees with you (including four deans of current dental schools who will be instructing us this year). Why don't you let us begin our first year before you rip into us, and don't knock something that you don't understand.

In case you are interested in recognizing that your information is incorrect, Arizona DOES have a full-time faculty. In conjunction with that we will also be having adjunct and visiting faculty, just like the best law and business schools in the nation having been doing for years. What school do/will you be attending? I'll let you know if your dean will be a visiting faculty member.

Since you are so interested in surgery, I thought you might like to know that the Surgeon General of the United States will be speaking to us at our orientation. Quite the trainwreck, eh?

My uncle is on the ADA's Commission on Dental Accreditation, and also serves on the Western Board of Regional Examiners. The comments from each of those committees are that they wish all schools had a faculty set-up and curriculum like the one Arizona is planning. Doing so saves money and furthers dental education.

zazzookode, I find it odd that you insist on going against those who have more knowledge than you on a given subject. Thanks for your opinions anyway -- that is partly what makes this forum so useful.
 
zazzookode, you said "Are you saying Yah-E is naive because he is focused on OMS despite him being a first year student and not in clinicals?"

Not at all. I'm saying that in 99.99% of the cases, predental students don't know enough information to pin down a specialty!

Yah-E is a friend of mine, and he may be an exception!

I'm sure that even he will tell you that he has flip-flopped on his career goals with regards to specialty several times, and he hasn't even begun his 2nd year yet!

It is dangerous to attend medical school with the the sole hopes of working in the oral cavity, because if you decide you do NOT want to do OMS, then you are stuck being a physician!

As ehop said, oral surgeons want to be dentists first, then oral surgeons. They don't want to be stuck being an MD if they change their minds about oral surgery, which is where medical school would leave them. You have to realize that students who are interested in OMS don't just want to be surgeons, they want to work with the oral cavity and head/neck area!
 
Didn't mean to add the flame by calling zazzoo "Psycho". I think this thread has gone off topic. Zazzoo needs to understand that any thread that involves dentistry versus medicine will invoke a lof of emotion. And thus I think some of his comments have been misinterpreted like ehop suggests.

I mean which one of us can honestly deny that we don't know dental students or pre-dents who are into oral surgery for the money or the chance of getting an MD title too. It happens. These people aren't the majority but there are students like that. And who can deny not knowing people who enter OMS for the surgical aspects of it. I wouldn't be suprised if a lot of these people would rather be surgeons than GP's. Again, I doubt these people represent the majority.

You can't enter OMS through medical school. Zazzo was wrong about that. However, if you want to engage is some form of facial reconstructive or plastic surgery, he is correct in that it is possible through a residency in general surgery. And if you can't get into an MD school, you might consider applying to osteopathic schools. Both Yah-E , dentalvibe and I studied on an osteopathic campus. I wouldn't say getting accepted to an osteopathic school is any more or less difficult than getting into dental school. You might try that if surgery would be a better second option than general dentistry.

It is unfortunate that this turned into an unnecessary brawl. There is no need to point fingers. But there was some good ideas that came about here. At the same time, it is unfair to assume any of us know what most dentists and pre-dentists are thinking. Let's not concern ourselves with that notion. None of us can know the true answer to that. Let's just state that an option exists if some pre-dents don't like the idea of general dentistry, they have this option.

I'm a pre-dent and I want to purse GP dentistry. But I think it's a valid point. If general dentistry is not a second option for you then general surgery and medical school might be a better option.
 
I just asked one of my buddies who is a d-3 at Baylor, and he said that you can be an OMS by going to medical school first, but then you have to go to 4 years of dental school also! ouch! has anybody else heard this?

Perc-
 
Originally posted by zazzookode

-Also question why nearly half of all OMS residencies result with one getting an MD. Hmmmmmmm, Zazzoo is on to something here. Yeah, if it's such a "dental only" specialty, why do most programs entail medical training. This just show how pathetic it is to make this a dental vs. medical argument. It just makes Yah-E look like a hypocrite.

Both physicians and dentists can specialize in OMS. YES, THEY CAN YAH-E!!!! If you were informed about the field, you would know this. But you aren't so you are making this a petty squabble about dentistry versus medicine. I could care less what initials you have behind your name. I would hope that someone who is passionate about OMS wouldn't care if DMD or MD is behind their name.

It's sad that I met so much resistance by providing an informative option. 🙄

Sorry, but I don't believe an opinion from a pre-dent is as "informative" as the American Association of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons (AAOMS). Here it is straight from their website www.aaoms.org

Oral and maxillofacial surgery is defined by the American Dental Association as the specialty of dentistry which includes the diagnosis, surgical and adjunctive treatment of diseases, injuries and defects involving both the functional and esthetic aspects of the bone and soft tissues of the oral and maxillofacial region.

Even though oral and maxillofacial surgeons perform many of the same procedures as plastic surgeons and other medical specialists, oral and maxillofacial surgery is a specialty of dentistry. All OMSs are dentists , though some also hold medical degrees, and the practice of oral and maxillofacial surgery is regulated by state dental boards rather than medical boards.

Q: What special training do oral and maxillofacial surgeons receive?

A: Following graduation from four years of dental school, oral and maxillofacial surgeons complete a hospital-based surgical residency of at least four years. This residency includes training in medicine, general surgery, anesthesia and physical diagnosis. The core surgical training is identical to that provided to medical residents, and in most cases OMSs and medical doctors are trained together. Some OMS residents earn medical degrees through residency programs that integrate OMS and MD training. All OMS residents, whether they hold a dental degree or a dental and medical degree , rotate through hospital medical, surgical and anesthesia services, where they perform the same duties and procedures as residents in medical specialties.

Nowhere does this site mention that you can go through medical school first and then pursue an OMS residency. Yeah, there might be the RARE exception that does, but if you want to be an OMS, you better like teeth because it is a big part of the specialty. How do I know? I am currently taking Oral Surgery as a third year class. The gun shot wound repair lectures definitely showcased the importance of the medical training in OMS. However, the lectures we've had on jaw surgery (like those referred from orthodontists) are more than convincing why a dental background is absolutely necessary for this field. For you pre-dents, I am talking about those surgeries that people with huge underbites (a jaw that sticks way out forward - Class III) are corrected to have a more normal looking profile. You've all seen people who could/have benefitted from this type of surgery. This involves knowing a lot about occlusion, a subject that can only be learned over YEARS in dental school. There is no way they can teach occlusion over a couple of lunch lectures to a medical student.

I agree with the above posters, if you really want to be a surgeon, go to med school by any means you can get in. Then specialize in plastics or otolaryngology (However, I think these fellowships are still highly competitive among surgery residents). But if you want to be an ORAL SURGEON, by the definition given by the AAOMS, you have to go to dental school first. No exceptions about it.
 
Back to the question from the original poster. The advantage to being a GP vs a specialist? As a GP, you can pick and choose the procedures you do. A specialist definitely takes on the more challenging cases. But you have to be able to jump from one discipline to another in GP - from endo, to operative, to perio, to removable, back to endo, over to fixed - all in the same day. As a specialist, it is only one discipline all day - all endo, all day. You have to know the other disciplines and how they fit into the specialty, but you don't actually have to perform them.

After 1 year of clinic, I am thinking there are too many procedures in general dentistry that I don't like that I will probably specialize in one field. I just feel like I can concentrate on one thing at a time. However, I am still contemplating doing a one year residency before making the decision to specialize, just so I can be 100% sure. Oh well, one more month before I seriously have to start thinking about all this and applying to post-grad. Yikes! Applications all over again!
 
Originally posted by griffin04


After 1 year of clinic, I am thinking there are too many procedures in general dentistry that I don't like that I will probably specialize in one field. I just feel like I can concentrate on one thing at a time.

I feel the same way. What specialties are you considering?
 
For what it's worth, the one thing that I have been told by the various GP's that I have shadowed is that they have significantly more overhead than do specialists, since they have to have a whole array of products on hand to perform the different tasks that a GP will see in a week. But it is precisely this variety of work that makes GP so appealing to me.

Perc-
 
Thanks Yah-E. I was waiting for someone to put "Bazooka" dude on his place.
 
Zazookode,

I am not going into a long post here, but as someone interested in OMS who has researched it extensivley, you are wrong about many things in your arguments. Furthermore, your persistence in this matter makes you look bad. If you **** your pants dont sit down in it too. I must make one point though, the specialty is called oral and maxillofacial surgery not oral and MAXOfacial as you keep saying. Have a good day and admit you are wrong, if you have any specific ?'s Yah-E or I would be happy to answer them.
 
My my - I almost feel like the "non-debate" posts should be in a new thread.

Nonetheless, back to Organic's survey, with a little different spin. I'm currently in a DDS/PhD program..... and am tentatively planning on combining a post-doc and a perio residency.... however, we'll see where I end up. Length of training vs. added professional benifit will definatly be a factor. I am planning on practicing part time, however if I end up taking a more research oriented career path, or end up more involved in academics, then it may not be worth the extra time spent specializing. Frankly, I'm in the DDS class of 2009 right now, and while long term planning is important, keeping my sanity is also essential. 😀 It's important to me to keep an end in sight... a time when i'll be a productive member of society, etc, etc, etc - and I'm not yet convinced that specializing is the way to do that.

On the other hand, I'm not exactly loving certain aspects of the preclinical curriculum... but then again I'm pouring effort into prepping and restoring perfect plastic teeth - not exactly a patient in need of real diagnosis and treatment. (although my typodont IS stoked about the 2 gold crowns it's gettting later this quarter). Perio is really interesting from an academic standpoint, and from an observational clinical standpoint - but i've never even used a perio probe for its intended purpose!

In short, I'm waiting to see what really piques my interest in the clinic, as well as in the lecture hall, before I say for sure whether I want to specialize clinically. General dentistry also fits my ADD personality well :clap:

Cheers!

-Kungfoo

***can't wait to get back to the lab this summer***
 
Give it up for GP being good for those of us with ADD
 
What's up everyone:

It has been confirmed, I've asked both residents and faculty at University of Minnesota, School of Dentistry, Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery department about getting into an OMFS residency spot via the medical school route.

For a medical school graduate wanting to do OMFS, (s)he will have to complete a dental degree (DDS or DMD) also. It's fine if you do it through general surgery route and then a fellowship, but a dental degree is REQUIRED.

All residents and faculty have said that it would make MUCH more sense to go the traditional route of going through dental school first if you want OMFS!

I thought I clear everything up.
 
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