Do you think you should still be on clinical rotations?

[libertyyne]

I don't accept your premise. Rotations were suspended in March. Say schools start the academic year in July. That means that 4 months of third year was suspended. By July, we will hopefully be able to allow the former 3rd years to re-join the ranks. They will have 4 months to make up (some of which will likely not be made up) which is more than doable at most if not all schools. Unfortunately, it will cut in to electives and aways, but there's no reason it should result in a year-long delay.

You dont have to accept my premises for them to come true.
We dont know how long this is going to last, or what the waves will look like, or even when the peak is going to come. Or if there will be many peaks.

Many school that actually have a clue have already dismissed their schools till july, and who knows what a second wave looks like.

Plus your logic of keeping people out of hospitals to reduce risk to communities or themselves should extend until we have a vaccine or until everyone is seropositive which could be a year to 18th months.

Edit: Just weird that you would let people either be delayed to graduate preventing the system from getting the human capital it is in dire need of , or willing to graduate people with questionable competition of clinical activities.

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[longhaul3]

I think it's unlikely that this will cause entire cohorts not to graduate on time. If students on rotations lose 3 months, you can take 1 week off of 6-8 blocks (or however many core rotations there are) and then waive one elective requirement. Even if they lose another month, the loss amortized over the remaining curriculum isn't that substantial.

When push comes to shove, yes, people will be graduating in 1-2 years having missed a few months' worth of rotations, but it's not exactly a secret that you don't learn anything much until intern year starts. They will probably be not significantly less qualified or prepared to start residency. In either case, this would cause significantly less disruption than retaining an entire class in med school, which would both back everything up all the way to M1 and deprive residency programs of by far the biggest source of interns (and the only ones that most programs really want). It would be an absolute jackpot for FMGs/IMGs though.

 

[WheezyBaby]

Students should not be in the hospital unless the local situation progresses to the point that they're essential personnel. I'm dismissing my interns on days when they're not needed, which is frequently. This isn't a time for fostering a certain culture or bestowing a mentality into a trainee. Minimize exposure unless necessary. Regardless they'd be eating up my nonexistent PPE

 

[WheezyBaby]

I'm actually shocked that 70% of pollsters are happy to not be on rotation, I figured more people would want to be on the wards helping with this. Instead, this is going to be 10 years from now:

Freshly minted MS3: "You were a student during COVID? That must have been terrifying, what was it like??"
Freshly minted attending: "Those were dark days - I sat at home playing COD and had to do a zoom call for an hour a day to get credit for my IM rotation. I must have gained 20 lbs that summer with the gym closures"

The question is not whether students are happy to be home. I bet they're bored senseless. The question is if they should be on rotation. I dont give a **** if they want to be in the hospital or if they're worried about how their grandkids will view their personal contribution to the covid response. I would not allow a student to come in to help me

 

[Maelstrom143]

I think it should be on a volunteer basis. Some of us who have previous clinical experience would be happy to do rotations during this time. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to see what was done, how, why, and learn for future encounters. Aside from the fact, if we can be of help, so much the better. I just worry about the quality of rotations due to the staff having other priorities, as well they should.

 

[Mass Effect]

I think it should be on a volunteer basis. Some of us who have previous clinical experience would be happy to do rotations during this time. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to see what was done, how, why, and learn for future encounters. Aside from the fact, if we can be of help, so much the better. I just worry about the quality of rotations due to the staff having other priorities, as well they should.

Without a license it is highly unlikely that you can be of any help that justifies you using up PPE that others need. Your once-in-a-lifetime opportunity is someone else's dread. Stay home. And if you do have a nursing license or something, then use your license to actually work if you want to be involved. There are no formal rotations. There's no time for that.

 

[Aleaz]

As the contagious nature of this thing is finally being more or less recognized as well as the death rate of HEALTHCARE workers who DID use PPE--I say NO. Do not take your life in your hands just to think maybe you can help. Let the docs who are experts concentrate on helping and not students who need to be chaperoned, taught, lead etc. There is no TIME to teach right now. It is a literal war zone out there now. Hunker down, stay safe, and read read read so WHEN clinical opens up--you will stand out--totally PREPARED.
Aloha

 

[Doctor-S]

My response: NO.

1. Right now, we don't have the spare time (or the spare PPE) to provide you with the appropriate level of clinical supervision that medical students deserve.

2. We're extremely busy treating the "truly ill" who require all hands-on-deck, as well as the increasing caseload of infected patients.

3. We do NOT want to have to administer emergent medical care to you if (or when) you contract the virus. Please stay home, and stay well.

To be honest, we need you to remain healthy and well because we want YOU to become our finest future physicians ... and not become our most recent casualties.

 

[~Soñadora~]

Most students right now would just be using up valuable PPE without being able to do much actual clinical work. We would be vectors of infection, bringing the infection out of the hospitals and into our homes and by increasing the amount of people patients are exposed to also potentially exposing non-COVID patients to COVID. Overall, students being there does more harm than good. Is it detrimental to our education? Yes, most likely. Is this what is best for the system as a whole and for patients? Absolutely.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Residency programs’ clinical education, including core requirements, is suspended for those places that are announcing a Stage 3 pandemic situation. If even the resident clinical education is off the table, med student education definitely should be. No brainer. Stage 3: Pandemic Emergency Status Guidance

 

[A Ryan Seacrest Type]

No

 

[sunshinefl]

These aren’t regular rotations, but these are M3s who are going to do public health roles for 4 weeks:

Heritage College students to lend a hand in fighting pandemic | Ohio University

The Ohio University Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine is sending in reinforcements in Ohio’s battle with COVID-19.

www.ohio.edu

 

[Mass Effect]

These aren’t regular rotations, but these are M3s who are going to do public health roles for 4 weeks:

View attachment 300828

Heritage College students to lend a hand in fighting pandemic | Ohio University

The Ohio University Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine is sending in reinforcements in Ohio’s battle with COVID-19.

www.ohio.edu

That press release is extremely misleading. The duties of these students -- listed in the release -- won't free up physicians or nurses for anything because these aren't the duties they're doing. I appreciate the spin, but that's what it is - spin.

 

[Espressso]

Personally as a third year student, there's no reason third years should be in the hospital right now. Suspending all medical education indefinitely is a stretch though. The issue right now is that we were caught so off-guard with this as a country. If by July it's on it's tail end of the peak (which is my prediction), and as a country, we start stock-piling PPE and get things in place for the upcoming fall, there is no reason to suspend all rotations indefinitely.

 

[deleted393595]

There are already 2 dead residents in NYC from a lack of PPE.

So the answer is nope?

 

[anbuitachi]

There are already 2 dead residents in NYC from a lack of PPE.

So the answer is nope?

View attachment 300997

this needs to be confirmed. so far its UNVERIFIED. a lot of people spreading different things.

 

[anbuitachi]

i believe it is correct for most med students to be OFF rotations. we are far too busy to be teaching, and having med students around only increases foot traffic, thus worsening spread. plus the fact that we are severely short on PPE, and some students may not feel strongly about speaking out when they are being graded.

 

[mistafab]

Feels kind of dumb that all my grad reqs are done, I am essentially a doctor, but all I can do is play cs go and workout.

Would be nice if my residency could start early and get to paying me. I guess the state where i'm going isn't that desperate yet.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Feels kind of dumb that all my grad reqs are done, I am essentially a doctor, but all I can do is play cs go and workout.

Would be nice if my residency could start early and get to paying me. I guess the state where i'm going isn't that desperate yet.

Im a third year resident and staying home (on a non essential elective) and I can’t even work out (maybe I’ll buy a home gym?). I guess the difference is I get paid while you are paying... I am happy as a clam

 

[mistafab]

I envy the getting paid. However, covid-19 is the season for gainzz...

Or at least, the season for cardio and a dark tan

Im a third year resident and staying home (on a non essential elective) and I can’t even work out (maybe I’ll buy a home gym?). I guess the difference is I get paid while you are paying... I am happy as a clam

 

[DiscusKeeper]

In the clinical setting, patient care comes before the education of medical students. Right now, medical students would be nothing more than vectors for spreading COVID with little opportunity to learn. This would only put patients & the rest of the healthcare staff who need to remain healthy at greater risk.

I agree that virtual clerkships/distance learning are absolutely not an equivalent substitute, but we have to remember that the wellbeing of our patients comes first and that this is an unprecedented time in medical education.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I envy the getting paid. However, covid-19 is the season for gainzz...

Or at least, the season for cardio and a dark tan

do you have an apartment gym or something? Every single gym is closed in my area.

I’ve been doing resistance bands and peloton app body weight training...

 

[mistafab]

Just a kettlebell and jumprope. I’ve been doing outdoor sprints, lots of biking, and tons of BW exercises.

do you have an apartment gym or something? Every single gym is closed in my area.

I’ve been doing resistance bands and peloton app body weight training...