*DO YOU UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE NO JOBS WAITING?*

Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by sozetone, Sep 1, 2018.

  1. Momus

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    Computer jobs
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    Pharmacist jobs
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    What are you trying to say again? Job saturation doesn't exist with 15,000 graduates/year?

    Good luck, you are going to need it.
     
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    #101 Momus, Oct 29, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
  2. OP
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    sozetone

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    Temporary pharmacist in mail order setting......how embarrassing, we have been so over-saturated, they now all ask us to work as needed. yeah nice career. This wasnt in the brochure....lol
     
  3. Momus

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    That's not the real problem. 7k job posting, I bet you only 10% of them are real AND hiring full time, my company posts non existent job for HR requirement and hire from within. So, in reality, there are only 1000 job openings for the WHOLE USA a month lmao...
     
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  4. Timbo

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    Good Lord. I know for a fact a lot of those pharmacist job postings are fake too as they already had somebody internal lined up. We gonna have another 15,000 new PharmDs in another 7 months too. There's over twice as many of you as there are openings. What are y'all going to do???
     
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  5. projektreverb

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    But I’m special brooooo!!! I shine!! I was part of ALL the orgs and did all the things!!
     
  6. Secret_Informant

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    FYI: The internal hire could be a high-performing resident of their health system, community pharmacy, or a current employee with so many years experience as a practicing pharmacist with a clear and active license and no documented medical errors: "People make mistakes but the public expects perfection," to quote a retiring pharmacist and former faculty member. Many pharmacies and residency programs are hiring their own trained personnel. This is not new information.

    Shining alone is not a factor. Continually shining at ever increasing expectations is the mark of a professional. It does not matter what you did, but what you are doing.
     
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    #106 Secret_Informant, Oct 30, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
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  7. ScienceLover97

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    Not disagreeing totally, but these openings on Indeed available this month are not the annual job openings.
     
    #107 ScienceLover97, Oct 31, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  8. UGAZ

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    A lot of these jobs are probably already filled and not even really available. They already have people to hire. The postings are just for "fair" employment policy, which is a total joke.
     
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  9. tlh908

    tlh908 Senior Member
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  10. Dr. Pill

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    Not trying to defend the standpoint that there are tons of jobs, obviously there are not. However, to the people saying that these job postings are “fake” as they have an internal hire set up to take the position doesn’t really make sense. Looking at the big picture, if the job is posted, it is a job that is available for a pharmacist to fill. If they are moving internally, then there is a vacancy being created in the role that the rph is leaving. I understand that many times these job postings might not be available for everyone, but they are still valid jobs nonetheless contributing to the total number of jobs available on a larger scale.
     
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  11. Timbo

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    In that case, only jobs posted due to a pharmacist retiring or because of expansion like a new store opening contribute to the total number of jobs. Otherwise if it is a vacancy created due to a pharmacist leaving for another job then it's still zero new job created. This means that the number of new jobs is actually less than 7,774. How does this warrant the creation of 15,000 new PharmDs per year?
     
  12. Dr. Pill

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    The whole point of bringing this up is to talk about number of job openings, not new jobs being created, which in this case would contribute to the number of job postings, regardless of them being filled by an internal hire or not. The only way it would not contribute is if someone is moving internally from a position that will not be filled. Also for what its worth I am not defending that there is in any way justification for the number of pharmacy schools we have as I said in my previous post. Saturation is real, there are too many schools, not enough jobs, and if I was in any of these people’s shoes present day I would choose something other than pharmacy. They wont listen though, they have it all figured out.
     
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  13. Joleybear

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    My goal is literally to work retail anywhere. Wal-Mart. Walgreens. Jewel-Osco. I have two children who are mostly non-verbal and have autism. We are very low income and even with SSI don't make $40,000 per year for five of us. I would happily take a job that will help me pay for the $20,000 I need per year to get unlimited medical resources and therapy for my kids. I pay $12,000 now on the little income we have.... $60,000 per year is decent. $80,000 per year is more than enough and $100,000 is perfect and I'd have zero complaints. Even if I am working over 40hrs a week. Fine with me. I live in Chicago and I see openings all the time. I have confidence in my ability to be impressive enough to perform better than the majority of candidates. To each their own. Quit if you want. This is what I want to do. When I see these posts to me it usually reads "Do not study pharmacy because I do not need any more competition for work than I already have." That's how it seems.
     
  14. Joleybear

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    Be good enough to be one of the 50% who gets a decent job. Not as hard as it sounds.
     
  15. Timbo

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    Sounds like you're getting into pharmacy to make a decent living to take care of your kids- why not look into other professional schools that don't require as much time commitment, debt, and isn't experiencing such slow job growth and excessive saturation pharmacy is? Remember to take into account student loans too. Assuming you end up ~$200k in debt after graduation, and assuming 7% federal interest rate and standard 10 yr repayment plan, you will be paying about $3,000/month towards loans (or $36k per year). If your salary ends up being $80,000 per year, then after loans it is more like $44,000 per year. You will end up making less than average income for a master's degree graduate. Heck less than the median household income too.

    It's not just about getting the job. Saturation also means decreasing wages, hours, and lower job stability. It's simple law of supply and demand. What happens when there are so many pharmacists, corporations can then get away with hiring part-timers only so they don't have to pay benefits?
     
  16. Tommy1234

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    this is from your quote "why not look into other professional schools that don't require as much time commitment, debt, and isn't experiencing such slow job growth and excessive saturation pharmacy is?"

    Name one
     
  17. BC_89

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    You need to be cautious and crunch your numbers:

    Let’s presume a generous retail salary starting out of $120k. 33% of this goes easily to Medicare, SS, taxes (120k - 33% = $80,400). Student Loans at $200k is going to run you 2900 to 3300 a month for TEN years ( 80,400 - 36000 = $44,400). Now with your own assessment you’d like $20,000 for unlimited medical resources ($44,400 - 20,000 = $24,400). Rent or mortgage + utilities in Chicago in a 2 bedroom apartment is ~ $1,744 and of course 3 bedroom higher

    (Cost of Living in Chicago - SmartAsset)

    Let’s be modest and say you gotta “cheap” mortgage + utilities that’s only $1100 a month ( $24,400 - (1100x12 months) = $11,200). How much you gonna contribute in a 401k for yourself and kids? Let’s say bare minimum to meet your companies 5% match ( 11,200 - 6,000 = $5,200). You still gotta eat, buy clothes, pay for a vehicle, and prepare for life emergencies with only $433 a MONTH...

    That’s assuming 40 hour weeks which isn’t happening for new grads in metro areas. So if you can only get 32 hours your salary is drastically cut to ~ 90k and now your in trouble...

    Have a contingency plan.....Your making assumptions in a saturated career. Just be prepared for your families sake.
     
  18. TerryTerry

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    Do not overestimate yourself, new students.
    The situation is far worse than that already. People here are trying to save some poor souls.
     
  19. stoichiometrist

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    Software development, IT, the trades, engineering, accounting, finance.

    Top 5 debt to income ratios by professions:

    1) Optometry
    2) Veterinary
    3) Physician Assistant
    4) Dentistry
    5) Pharmacy

    Lowest 5 debt to income ratios by profession:

    1) Computer science
    2) MBA
    3) Finance
    4) Nursing
    5) Accounting

    Which Graduate Degrees Deliver More Debt than Income? | Credible
     
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  20. Secret_Informant

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    What are your thoughts about the College Transparency Act, allowing individuals that graduate to be followed via a few prospective observational studies and track their earnings for the professions listed for the highest debt-to-income ratios?

    With strong privacy protections in place, of course.
     
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    #120 Secret_Informant, Nov 26, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
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  21. PharmD Jobs Are Hopeless

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    I would have to agree. There are no jobs for grads. In hospitals, I tend to see job postings for clinical pharmacists with 2 to 5 years experience. They turn their noses up at grads that completed two years of residency. Pharmacy directors get bonuses based on keeping costs down. The last thing they want to do is have to offer paid training. Retail may be the same way.
     
  22. nikgurl64

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    Its not all hopeless. I graduated this year from UF and found a full time job still in Florida (retail). 60.62$ an hour and my loans were only 79,000 at graduation. (tuition was 99,000 and didn't ask for any more than tuition and had money saved up before school and worked all throughout and paid off as much as I could while in school) I am living in Southwest Florida by all my family, don't have 200k in loans and have plenty of money at the end of the month. Life is good and I don't regret my decision at all. Its not gloom for all.....

    But with all that said.... Most of the time it is not about how good you are, its all about who you know these days..... I had a good source at CVS Walgreens + Walmart. I chose the best offer.
     
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  23. DOOM N GLOOM

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    What % of your graduating class is still unemployed?
     
  24. Sine Cura

    Sine Cura 10 seconds or less
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    60/hr seems really high (good) for Florida in retail. In 2013-2014 I know a few new grads who started at 63/hr at WM in Northern California, not Bay Area

    Again it's all about right timing (which may never manifest for a lot of new grads) and "who you know." My current job is 20 min from where I went to HS because no one else wanted the job.
     
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  25. AD1208

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    My cousin graduated pharmacy 6 years ago and still hasn't found a job. The best offer she came across was working as a PRN for multiple Walmarts in the region.

    The Walgreens I worked at has the same 2 pharmacists for the past 15 years and I don't see a lot of demand for the supply of new grads.

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using SDN mobile
     
  26. Phamracy forever

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    6 years :eek:I think it depends on the person's situation.
     
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  27. Igra

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    I hear all these things everyone is saying yet I know current P4's who already have job offers...
     
  28. BC_89

    Moderator Lifetime Donor Verified Expert Verified Account 2+ Year Member

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    It’s a matter of timing, networking, and the willingness to work in rural America. I know a few P4s with jobs lined up as well as recent grads that still have no jobs.

    It’s a tighter string of having security than in the past but to each their own.
     
  29. UGAZ

    UGAZ SDN Gold Donor
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    Please point out where jobs are located to help out the ones that could not find. Thanks
     
  30. Phamracy forever

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    You can always register for job alerts in the areas you are interested to work at so you can get alerts everyday when a new job posting is available.
     
  31. stoichiometrist

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  32. Sine Cura

    Sine Cura 10 seconds or less
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    Think of getting a retail job after graduation as a game of musical chairs (you cannot "differentiate" or get an "in" as an intern when companies don't hire their interns anymore; you are at the whim of the music stopping) with more and more people playing yet the chairs are further spread out (you have to travel longer distances between chairs) and fewer to start with compared to 10 years ago.
     
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  33. AD1208

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    She worked at Walmart for 4-5 years while in pharmacy school. After graduation they either had to let her go due to no availability or she can continue to work as a PRN Pharmacist. After 2 years of looking for a full time position elsewhere she just gave up. Now she works 6 months a year and took off to travel the rest of the year.

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using SDN mobile
     
  34. PharmD Jobs Are Hopeless

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    Another victim of the pharmacy career hype. There is even better news from AI and robots could threaten your career within 5 years
    Wait until they allow AI to perform under some compromise of a pharmacist license. Bye bye jobs.
     
  35. DOOM N GLOOM

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    If 70% of retail is counting by 5’s, 25% of it is taking phone calls and 5% of it is doing counseling/flu shots then imagine a future with automated pill-counting robots and AI technology taking calls for you. Bye bye jobs indeed.
     
  36. smalltownfarm

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    Please PM me where you live. And more specifically, where you find out about these opportunities. Good luck!
     
  37. PharmD Jobs Are Hopeless

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    There are plenty of non pharmacy jobs hiring. A pharmacist career is now a huge mistake. There are too many people trying to squeeze into healthcare. Robots and AI are going to fill and dispense drugs much cheaper and with almost no errors compared to people. The days of pill counting for six figure incomes in retail are coming to an end. AI can do a much better job of remembering side effects, drug interactions, food drug interactions, the drugs that will cause oral contraception to not work, and how to use that new special inhaler that just came onto the market. Another issue is the whole universal healthcare medicare for all thing. Most countries that follow that pay pharmacists and physicians far less than in the United States. If that were to ever happen, I suspect that pharmacist salaries in the states will be decimated once all factors are in play. A government agency that dominates healthcare and that dictates what it will pay for drugs will change the modern retail paradigm. It might make retail in the states much more like in Canada. High pharmacist salaries will no longer be an option in this case. Change is happening in so many ways. The future of pharmacy jobs has become uncertain and unpredictable. This is why I stated that going into a pharmacy career is not a good idea right now.
     
  38. OP
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    sozetone

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    Let me give you an example. i am a manager at WM, i have an open staff spot. 48 hours/2 weeks. In BFE. I have already spoken with my DM about sharing a girl who is real good from another store to fulfill her hours. However....the Job Requisition is posted and open on walmart dot com and indeed.....etc. I already know however, this girl will be chosen "RANDOMLY".....from the pool of applicants......so to speak. My Dm will interview and screen superficially to satisfy company requirements, and then bring this girl in. It's happening everywhere in every company. period.
     
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  39. PharmD Jobs Are Hopeless

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    Alright, I thought this was interesting enough to share. I was at a CVS getting a script filled and saw a district manager that used to be a preceptor not long ago. The older DM retired and this man was literally on his way to retire also, but his boss convinced him to take his place. He happened to be my former preceptor. I greeted him as he was having a meeting with the staff. He came around and asked how were things going since graduation. We talked for a while and something he said shocked me that he was willing to admit this. He told me that he had 450 applicants for one pharmacist prn job. The job had no promise of hours, no benefits, and could be floated to any other location in the area. I asked him how are you going to determine the best choice from 450 applicants? He said that they already had someone in mind internally. I then asked why bother to list this job at all? The answer I got was it was their policy to advertise it externally. He had no intentions of actually reviewing 450 applicants. When I jokingly asked him what are the new graduating class of pharmacists going to do when they realize there are no jobs? He smiled and said "Not my problem I wish them the best." This discussion with the DM reinforced my prior belief that retail pharmacy jobs are in a critical state of hypertension with major structural remodeling going on. The prognosis is left ventricular hypertrophy with eventual HFrEF and fatal arrhythmia. Code blue.
     
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  40. Timbo

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    Holy **** which state is this? Pre pharms what are you going to do??? Maybe you're right, this is only happening in certain parts of the country because the remaining 449 applicants aren't going to apply anywhere else. They're just going to give up and sit around unemployed. Or maybe you are going to work your ass off networking during school... so you can get a prn job with no benefits and no hours guaranteed .
     
  41. TerryTerry

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    Most pre-pharms will pretend like this is not happening and keep going. I hope the schools now teach them how to suck up. No job security = no respect = no dignity.
     
  42. Modest_anteater

    Modest_anteater Is today your last day on Earth?

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    PREACH!

    To all the future pharmacysts thinking you are going to make money in this pharmasissy environment I got bad news for you. Please pay heed to sozetone and his words of wisdom.
     
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  43. projektreverb

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    But I was part of all the orgs and did all the things! I shine brooooo!!!! Provider status will pass, and we will all get residencies and jobs as clinical pharmacists!!! Happy days!!!
     
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  44. Modest_anteater

    Modest_anteater Is today your last day on Earth?

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    B-b-b-b-but muh provider status. Imma be a real Doctor!
     
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  45. BelowTheMean

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    This is the state of the millennial college kids now. They don't think about or even care what the future is like. As long as they can say "hey im in grad school and going to be a healthcare professional" is worth it to them. Don't dare challenge their thinking, you are always wrong and theyre always right in their little bubble. They'll use any anecdotal evidence as long as it justifies their thinking even if it's the wife of a friend of a friend's sister in law that got a per diem offer at CVS out of pharmacy school is enough to satisfy them. What do any of us know about job market or the way the profession has sunk? Their professors and school reps told them differently, that it will be glorious and they can turn their 2.0 gpa into becoming a "doctor" and make 6 figures with healthcare baby boomer whatever tons of job growth! I say just let them apply and waste their money.
     
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  46. rxkrafted

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    If you are trying to find a job right after graduation without doing any internships outside of school, you're gonna be behind all those interns who already have experience with the company. And if you are one of those interns, you will be competing amongst other interns and transferring experienced pharmacists for whatever spot they may have opened. Think about how many pharmacists it takes to run a pharmacy in a day... Most stores usually only need 1 unless its 24-hour or high volume store. If you're going towards hospital or industry route, that's another ball game because it depends on your connections. We go through so many applications for new hires but if an employee already recommends a friend, chances for you a slim to none.

    Also something else to think about in a saturated market... If you don't find a job after months of searching post-graduation, you may have to look for other means of income because you have to start paying back student loans and chances of someone hiring a fresh new grad who hasn't found work for that long is gonna be less desirable.
     
  47. PharmD Jobs Are Hopeless

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    Retail stores have virtually no need for any more pharmacists. They certainly do not need several interns to train for jobs that will not exist when they graduate. I was lied to by an admissions dean before I ever signed up years ago. To make things worse, one of my former in-laws is a retail manager told me that a PharmD was a hot idea and there would always be a job with that degree. I worked as a tech and later as an intern. Completed a PGY-2. Performing like a rock star for two years in residency did not matter, if they have no more job openings available. I applied for jobs the final year of my PGY-2 and for over a year later with no interviews. Maybe I failed at networking or at kissing enough @ss. I never practiced the former so that might be it. I now work for minimum wage at DQ. I respectfully feel that at this point in time encouraging people to get a PharmD is borderline criminal. There are plenty of other good options that will not leave them with 200K or more in debt and no hope of a career.
     
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  48. Secret_Informant

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    They will need a pharmacist to manage that AI system though, probably one pharmacist for a whole region of people who will need people to run it: recruit a team, develop start-up costs, know many if not all regulations involved in pharmaceutical management, and integrate the AI system into the pharmacy workflow while anticipating and addressing interactions the system may not pick up. I am wondering if it may be a PGY2 in Pharmacy Informatics or Pharmacy Management who stayed five years in academia post-residency. Pharmacy school professors also leave positions to go somewhere else within 5 years time managing those health systems, working for pharmaceutical companies, or pursuing other options entirely.

    It will not surprise me if a professor may leave academia and pursue this position (if available). Four professors at my school left for various reasons in a span of 7 years. One of these individuals no longer has a LinkedIn profile anymore (at least not that I can see). The other three, I believe, are glad to have left USF despite their expressions of gratitude towards their former employer.
     
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    #148 Secret_Informant, Dec 22, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  49. jjcayce123

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    Where did you go to school? This was definitely not the case for my 2017 class. I worked as a tech full time at a hospital before going back to school. I had a job offer from them 2 months before graduation. I know of very few people in my class that did not have something already lined up before graduation.
     
  50. greenteapanacea

    2+ Year Member

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    May I ask which part of the country this is in? Also, is this a private school?
     

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