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Doctor of Pharrmacy vs BSPS

Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by josh6718, May 9, 2007.

  1. josh6718

    josh6718 Pharmacist

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't both the BSPS and Doctor of Pharmacy allow you to do research? If so, what more can you do (besides teach) with a PhD of Pharmacy?


    Thanks,

    Josh
     
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  3. patmcd

    patmcd Senior Member
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    The bsps would allow you to be essentially a tech in a research lab. You wouldn't be able to run your own projects/lab because you'd never get funding with just a bachelors degree.
     
  4. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    What's a BSPS? sorry - never heard of that before.

    I've never heard of a PhD in Pharmacy before either - a PhD in pharmaceutical chemistry, pharmaceutics, pharmacology, but never pharmacy......I admit, it may be somewhere & I'm sure someone will direct me to the school which confers it.

    A Doctor of Pharmacy, traditionally, refers to the PharmD which is the entry level degree for becoming a pharmacist. That is the only degree which is now conferred in the US for allowing you to take the licensing examinations. Before 2000, some schools offered a BS (Bachelor Science) in Pharmacy, but that is no longer an option.
     
  5. josh6718

    josh6718 Pharmacist

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    Right, theres the PharmD and then there's the Doctor of Pharmacy (which at my school is an addiitonal 2 years to the PharmD) but anyway, I was referring to the Doctor of Pharmacy.
     
  6. farmskool

    farmskool Member

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  7. patmcd

    patmcd Senior Member
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    PharmD means doctor of pharmacy
     
  8. Idesiretosling

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    I think PharmD would let you do more, the BSPS just seems like a fancy way to say Chemistry or Biology degree. Bachelors will not let you do much in research world at all.
     
  9. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    I'm still confused - is this a PhD in pharmacy??? With only 2 years beyond a PharmD???

    I don't doubt you, just don't know what that would get you. It seems an extra 2 years without much opportunity for job advancement or research positions.....
     
  10. Farmercyst

    Farmercyst On with the Poodles already
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    We had a guy who was a project leader with Arena Pharmaceutical out to CSUSB and he pretty much said you can walk on with a BS and work your way up. This is probably just in industry though. Don't know if you'd be able to get research grants unless you were really good at writing grant proposals with just a BS in the Educational sector.
     
  11. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    I think Arena is a start up. I'm not sure there is much in the way of career opportunity there, but for those who like high risk - it could be a start.
     
  12. Farmercyst

    Farmercyst On with the Poodles already
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    It is. They're based in San Diego. They're on phase III trials of an anti-obesity drug. He's a PhD in chemistry, but they've got a few BS's and MS's working there in various sciences (Bio, MedChem, etc) The guys been jumping from Co to Co. It pays well enough and I guess it's in sufficient demand that you could have a "career" spanning multiple companies in multiple regions. Not my choice, but I suppose somebody could do it.
     
  13. ButlerPharm.D.

    ButlerPharm.D. Honor Before Glory

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    BSPS and Pharm.D. are NOT the same thing. BSPS=Bachelors of Science-Pharmaceutical Sciences. It is essentially a bacehelors in Pharmaceutics. You are not a pharmacist if you have a BSPS instead you are involved in the study and design of drug formulation for optimum delivery, stability, pharmacokinetics, and patient acceptance. Butler also offers the BSPS. Also a Pharm.D. and Doctor of Pharmacy are the same thing....
     
  14. MichaelJames

    MichaelJames Pharmacy 4 Life

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    A few years back, it was recommended that all licensed pharmacists possess at least a doctorate in pharmacy degree. :D Take it for who you are and what its worth! In todays world, if you want to advance in pharmacy you are required to have the doctorate. This is especially true if you are going to be doing clinical and supervisory work and rightfully so! In this day and age a pharmacist has as much status as an MD!

    I guess a PharmD could call him/her self a doctor now right-NOT!:scared:
    There are PhDs that exploit the title of doctor but not PharmDs because we know that title belongs to medical doctors!:smuggrin:

    Here is to PharmDs everywhere.................
     
  15. Farmercyst

    Farmercyst On with the Poodles already
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    I suppose now would be a good time to advise against the comparison/contrast between MD/PharmD as it tends to spiral toward the dark abyss of trolldom.
     
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  17. patmcd

    patmcd Senior Member
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    Technically it's for anyone with a doctorate in any subject. MD's have a doctor of medicine. PharmD's have a doctor of pharmacy, and PhD's have a doctor of philosophy.
     
  18. athena09

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    what do you think of people who first got a degree in pharmaceutical science and then go into pharmacy school? I don't know why advisors here discourage that route.
     
  19. KellyBean

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    Why would your advisor discourage it? The last year of BSPS is basically the first year of PharmD. At Ohio State, if you get an A in Biochem and maybe some other courses, then when you get into your PharmD program, you don't even have to take those classes again. The class is being taught by the same professor. The students of 2 classes take the same exam at the same time. I know at Campbell, they encourage it. Even on their website, it states that you have a better chance of getting in if you have a BSPS.
     
  20. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    You have your facts a bit wrong.

    The ACPE (Accreditation Council for Pharmaceutical Education) determined the entry level degree for any pharmacist would be the PharmD as of the year 2000. So, after 1999, there were no longer any pharmacy schools which could confer a BS in Pharmacy. However - this has nothing to do with licensure. There are still BS pharmacists in practice & as long as you have a degree from an accredited US pharmacy school, you can sit for licensure in any state. You just cannot obtain a BS anymore from any school in the US in pharmacy which will qualify you to take a licensing examination.

    There are plenty of pharmacists around who have BS degrees who occupy positions of significant authority & professional capability.

    Do not let this thread degenerate into a degree bashing issue!!!!

    If you really want to understand the whys & whens of how the degrees changed - pursue some history of pharmacy. Don't make unfounded assumptions!!!!

    (I'm a PharmD from 1977 so I'm part of this history)
     
  21. Jbuprepharm

    Jbuprepharm The Poopsmith

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    nonsense, PharmD's have bigger brains than B.S. RPh's. It's science, you can't arugue that
     
  22. MichaelJames

    MichaelJames Pharmacy 4 Life

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    Yes, it was the ACPE that caused that to happen. :eek: I didn't realize that it has been that way since as far back as 2000 though. I know plenty of highly capable people who work in pharmacy as supervisions and even directors who don't possess any more than the BSP. :p The associate dean of the Unversity of Kansas SOP only has a BSP. :scared: These things are almost unheard of these days though.:(

    You talked about degree bashing! :D Oh, don't worry all bash a Ph.D anywhere or anytime because I don't like the way they try and exploit a title that has been reserved for people who really are medical doctors and doctors of osteopathy. :mad: These people are the REAL doctors that help people and save lives. :) A Ph.D is someone who wants to profit from another persons labors. A Ph.D is a person who wants more status than what they really deserve. A Ph.D spends an average of five years in graduate school writing research papers and a dissertation to get their degree. SO WHAT!!! :laugh: All having a Ph.D does is show just how crazy you really are!:idea:

    Mike
     
  23. yawj797

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    :laugh:
    Tru dat homie.
     
  24. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    You have got to be kidding - right? I'm just not getting the sarcasm of this post I hope?????
     
  25. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    I'll let this ride, but I've never heard of a PhD who wants to profit from another person's labor nor who throws around their "doctor" titile....but then I only know PhD's who are in the sciences - not the liberal arts.... Yes - they have graduate students, lab assistants, post-docs working for them - but it is not to profit. In fact, very few profit personally since most of the work is patent protected by either the institution or the corporation they work for.

    Do you really know anyone who has a PhD & actually works with it?

    I do ..... I have 3 in my own family & none refer to themselves as "Dr" nor was their education limited to 5 years of graduate school.

    What they do is a hard job with fairly low pay for what they know, unless they stumble upon a major project outcome.

    Why bash anyone???

    Oh - btw - it was not a BSP....It was a BS (Bachelor of Science) only. Just as someone who got a BS in physics, chemistry, biochemistry, microbiology or any of the other science degrees. There are many, many BS pharmacists who are well known in the profession so your statement that it is unheard of is ridiculous & unfounded.

    But - I'd agree with Farmer - you are a bit of a troll & want to generate attention. I just know more about the history & complexity of the discussion/arguments which went into the PharmD becoming the entry level degree. It was a difficult & divisive time within the profession & one we came through intact. Your particular rant on those who posses a BS in pharmacy is not appropriate.
     
  26. Farmercyst

    Farmercyst On with the Poodles already
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    "But - I'd agree with Farmer - you are a bit of a troll & want to generate attention. I just know more about the history & complexity of the discussion/arguments which went into the PharmD becoming the entry level degree. It was a difficult & divisive time within the profession & one we came through intact. Your particular rant on those who posses a BS in pharmacy is not appropriate."

    Sorry, I couldn't get the quote button to work and had to resort to this.

    Anyway, I really wish you'd leave me out of these things:smuggrin: .

    In all actuality though, I didn't call names. I just said that once you've started down this path, that threads tend to take the direction this one is currently going in. Though I did use the word (ok a modified form of it) I wasn't implying that anyone had earned that title.

    I still don't like the direction of the thread, but I'd say it hasn't gotten yet to the point where it needs to be closed. (That may not be too far distant though.) I figure sarcasm can be tolerated to a point. Even a certain degree of hijacking. Name calling and such not so much.
     
  27. patmcd

    patmcd Senior Member
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    If I could slap you via the internet I would.....seriously. I'm going to guess you've never worked with anyone that is a PhD. They tend to very intelligent, hard working, and get little in the way in terms of compensation for it too boot. Their title is no different than a pharmd, md, jd, etc. All it means is that your an expert in a particular field of study. In some ways getting a PhD is harder. They can spend several years researching and writing their dissertation only to have it be denied and get to do a major rework or start all over. That doesn't happen to pharmacy students. At worst you'll just have to repeat a class. And to specifically address your comment that they are just stealing the title "doctor". If you read up on a little history you'd realize that the MD and PhD have both been around a very long time. PhD came along to describe expertise in any field outside of medicine, law, and theology. Not so long ago a doctor of pharmacy degree would have been lumped in with all the other PhD's out there, so be careful who you bash. Anyone that has completed a doctorate degree of any sort has earned the right to be called doctor is they are so inclined. PharmD's generally don't use the title outside of the classroom to avoid confusion by people like you who think that anyone called doctor is an MD.
     
  28. Jbuprepharm

    Jbuprepharm The Poopsmith

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    sdn1977, consider the sarcasm missed ;)
     
  29. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    Thanks!:D
     
  30. Jbuprepharm

    Jbuprepharm The Poopsmith

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    I figured you catch it the first time, what with your larger PharmD brain and all
     
  31. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    C'mon - give me a break! I've been a mother for 24+ years - I'm celebrating early...(oh - every mother here will tell you every day she gets by is a celebration - IMO anyway!).

    I worked last week for 9 days straight - I'm tired & I'm spending the whole weekend celebrating the fact I have 2 great kids & an SO who thinks I'm the greatest person who he could have had kids with & who thinks that I've done a great job on my part as a parent - I'm not "getting" the sarcasm right now....:oops:

    I'll work harder next week:D My PharmD brain should have kicked in by then, but I left it at work last night about 9PM. Right now ..... I'm just somebody's mom:D .
     
  32. Jbuprepharm

    Jbuprepharm The Poopsmith

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    Well I'm sure it'll come back around, happy mother's day. I love my mama and will call her later today to make sure she knows it
     
  33. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    Thanks so much! You must be on the east coast - its not quite mother's day here, but h*ll, I've been a mother so long, I deserve to start early (plus I talked to both my kids today & they'll call again tomorrow).

    But, yeah - call your mama tomorrow - she loves you!
     
  34. Farmercyst

    Farmercyst On with the Poodles already
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    I'll be at mom's tomorrow. Lucky me, I don't have to call. She lives far enough away not to nag (not that I need nagging mind you:rolleyes: ) and close enough to visit.
     
  35. Jbuprepharm

    Jbuprepharm The Poopsmith

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    I'm actually right in the middle (Texas)

    hey Cyst, are you from Arkansas originally or something? if so what part?

    I'm from SoCal originally and my wife is from Little Rock, so your locations are of interest to me for trivial reasons
     

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