Doctorate in social work vs. PhD/PsyD?

[Anise]

Hi... (waves)
I'm brand spankin' new to this board and I have... well, a LOT of questions, but this is the main one right now. I would appreciate any and all answers.

What's really the difference between DSW's and PhD's (in clinical psych)? How are the programs different? Ideology? Research topics? Overall experiences? Jobs that people tend to actually end up in after graduation? All replies gratefully welcomed!

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[Psyclops]

I think it's important to remember, that although some social workers work as LCSWs and counsel MH patients, that isn't neccessarily what their primary role is. It's one of the hats they wear. Clinical psychologists sepcialize in working with and studying mental disorder and associated topics.

jlw? you out there and want to take this one?

 

[pingouin]

I think it's important to remember, that although some social workers work as LCSWs and counsel MH patients, that isn't neccessarily what their primary role is. It's one of the hats they wear. Clinical psychologists sepcialize in working with and studying mental disorder and associated topics.

jlw? you out there and want to take this one?

good call

re DSW vs PhD in SW, I've never had the desire to get either so I've never investigated..... I'll venture a guess that it's similar to the PsyD vs PhD in psych. Let me do some research and get back to you. (And when I say "research", that means "I'll call one of my friends with the PhD in social work." )

 

[pingouin]

wait- I just re-read that. I think I might have misunderstood the first time. Do you want social work PhD vs. DSW? Or DSW vs. psych PhD/PsyD?

I can tell you right now that the SW PhD is all about research, not practice.

 

[Anise]

wait- I just re-read that. I think I might have misunderstood the first time. Do you want social work PhD vs. DSW? Or DSW vs. psych PhD/PsyD?

I can tell you right now that the SW PhD is all about research, not practice.

As I understand it, the DSW vs. PhD question in social work isn't really meaningful anymore, although it was at one time. So it should properly be SW PhD/DSW vs. psych PhD/PsyD, I think.

I'd really like to do research in psychoneuroimmunology, but particularly as it relates to social phenomena of trauma (abuse, torture, disasters, etc.) UNT does have a health psychology PhD and I'm looking at that, but I'm also attracted to the PhD in social work idea. I should maybe add that I'm an adult student going back to school, and I do have some financial security now (no family help, but you can't have everything.) So the cost of the program isn't really the top priority.

 

[Psyclops]

By your interests it sounds like the psych PhD would be the way to go.

 

[pingouin]

By your interests it sounds like the psych PhD would be the way to go.

That's what I was thinking. For the record, from my SW PhD friend:

The DSW is pretty much outdated. Most social work schools switched from the DSW to the Phd degree about 15 years ago. Back when DSWs were in vogue, they were usually considered the "clinical" degree vs. a research degree. Now most programs, actually, I think all -- I'm pretty sure UPenn might have been one of the last hold outs -- are PhDs because the programs wanted to "scientific-inquiry up" their reputations.

and

SW Phds examine client systems (whether micro, macro, or mezzo) from an ecosystemic and strengths-based perspective, while psych PhDs focus on pathology.

Now, Psyclops- no more engaging me in conversations you know I can't stay out of! You KNOW I have a final tomorrow!

 

[pingouin]

Oh one more thing- of those SWs I know doing research, a lot of it focuses on service delivery issues- access to services, barriers, quality of services provided, needs-assessment stuff. I know one whose expertise is in gambling addiction, although I can't remember the exact focus of her diss- I recall that she had a Fulbright Scholarship and was studying the relationship between adolescent video game usage as a predictor of adult gambling addiction. The one who I quoted above looked at the impact of child welfare worker burnout on service delivery to their clients, and also does research on education and retention of child welfare workers and risk factors which impact child abuse rates (ie, poverty and parents' level of education).

 

[WollWager]

Oh one more thing- of those SWs I know doing research, a lot of it focuses on service delivery issues- access to services, barriers, quality of services provided, needs-assessment stuff. I know one whose expertise is in gambling addiction, although I can't remember the exact focus of her diss- I recall that she had a Fulbright Scholarship and was studying the relationship between adolescent video game usage as a predictor of adult gambling addiction. The one who I quoted above looked at the impact of child welfare worker burnout on service delivery to their clients, and also does research on education and retention of child welfare workers and risk factors which impact child abuse rates (ie, poverty and parents' level of education).

Thats pretty much it. The program I started in (9 years ago) converted from a DSW (not the shoe warehouse) to a PhD. There is a very strong clinical component to it (including supervision and control cases)- but those that go on in academia are generally conducting research in QA, service delivery areas, policy design/implementation or specialty populations. You dont often see them getting involved in research in the "hard" sciences though it is not impossible- there have been some folks who have explored nuerobiological issues in children with learning disorders. Most of the "cutting edge" folks who have published work in trauma and biological impacts have been M.D.'s or Ph.D.'s in psych. however- the Ph.D. in social work is not always about research. Several that I know of have gone on to practice in specific treatment areas (children, infant mental health, upper income DV).

 

[A_DSW]

Hi All,

I have an advanced practice doctorate in clinical social work (DSW) from a competitive university that required a dissertation. Although I knew going into the program that there was no licensure at the doctoral level, two years after receiving the degree, I am feeling disgruntled. I have an LCSW, fortunately, that allows me to practice independently, but I would like to receive higher amounts of reimbursement for direct practice. I would also like to get some training in psychological testing.

Thus, I am asking this forum whether there is an APA accredited doctoral program in psychology that allows for much of my degree and experience to count including the dissertation (don't want to do another . I'm very open to your help! Thanks

 

[ClinicalABA]

Hi All

Thus, I am asking this forum whether there is an APA accredited doctoral program in psychology that allows for much of my degree and experience to count including the dissertation (don't want to do another . I'm very open to your help! Thanks

There are clinical re specialization programs, but they generally require that you have a doctorate in psychology. I think a problem you might face is that APA clinal training programs are designed to prepare student for doctoral level licensure as psychologists, which typically requires a doctoral degree in psychology. I'd think that any program that required a dissertation for the degree would want it conducted in-house (though I could be wrong). The are doctoral programs that don't require a dissertation, but these tend to be expensive professional schools. Some of your coursework may count in either type of program, but it'll still most likely be equivalent to earning a whole new degree- mainly because that's what it is.

 

[deleted343839]

Thus, I am asking this forum whether there is an APA accredited doctoral program in psychology that allows for much of my degree and experience to count including the dissertation (don't want to do another . I'm very open to your help! Thanks

To the best of my knowledge, no. There are a few respecialization programs for people with PhDs in non-clinical branches of psychology (eg, social psychology, cognitive psychology), but not for people with doctoral degrees in other disciplines. Most programs would not consider your training experiences to be equivalent, including the dissertation.

I have an LCSW, fortunately, that allows me to practice independently, but I would like to receive higher amounts of reimbursement for direct practice.

Do you know what the difference in reimbursement is in your area? It may be less than you think, or less than would justify the opportunity cost and expense of getting a second doctoral degree.

I would also like to get some training in psychological testing.

Why?

 

[smalltownpsych]

Hi All,

I have an advanced practice doctorate in clinical social work (DSW) from a competitive university that required a dissertation. Although I knew going into the program that there was no licensure at the doctoral level, two years after receiving the degree, I am feeling disgruntled. I have an LCSW, fortunately, that allows me to practice independently, but I would like to receive higher amounts of reimbursement for direct practice. I would also like to get some training in psychological testing.

Thus, I am asking this forum whether there is an APA accredited doctoral program in psychology that allows for much of my degree and experience to count including the dissertation (don't want to do another . I'm very open to your help! Thanks

Psychologist and Social Worker are two different roles. Sure we have some overlap in these roles, but a common misconception in our field and society is to focus on that overlap and then assume equivalency. If your dream is to become a psychologist, then there is a tough road ahead and it would be like starting over. If it is more about feeling frustrated with your role as a social worker, then maybe you need to shift that somehow. I personally think that becoming a Social Worker as a path to becoming "just a therapist" is a problem. I would rather have a DSW working to fix the broken social systems than doing what I already do exceptionally well. Also, if you do try to take on the mantle of what an expert in social work could do, you might want to align with psychologists as our expertise could be very valuable in said endeavor.