"Doctors’ spat with Atrium Health spills into rare public view"

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So the question remains, how is Scope going to be able to replace 100 anesthesiologists by July?

Desperate anesthesiologists.

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Desperate anesthesiologists.

+1

other options:

-An Injunction against enforcing the noncompetes? Good of the community, public policy, and all that stuff...

-Write an awfully big check.

-Maybe they will fail.
 
Desperate anesthesiologists.

Totally agree. You’d need so many so fast that the only real options (to get what, 100?! Even 50 MDs!) would be to lure lowest-common denominator locums or those otherwise unable to hold down a job. If I was a surgeon there, I’d be watching closely as this could be tough at a Level 1 trauma center
 
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you can lure in the scabs with good Locums pay, but that will only be sustainable for the short term. i would bet that this won't go very well for any of the parties involved. we'll see how it all plays out.
 
you can lure in the scabs with good Locums pay, but that will only be sustainable for the short term. i would bet that this won't go very well for any of the parties involved. we'll see how it all plays out.

One man's scab is another's under employed, exploited, doc who's is justly sticking it to an overcompensated fat cat.

I could have reasonably called both in my career. Just sayin.
 
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So the question remains, how is Scope going to be able to replace 100 anesthesiologists by July?

My bet is the non competes for the anesthesiologist and CRNA’s that provided most of the care but had no involvement with the administration of the practice will not hold.
 
So the question remains, how is Scope going to be able to replace 100 anesthesiologists by July?

If the docs are smart they’ll hold out for whatever pay level they want.
I consider all Locums salary offers a starting point when I get them.
 
If the docs are smart they’ll hold out for whatever pay level they want.
I consider all Locums salary offers a starting point when I get them.
Issues is docs have no real say in the matter. Mednax controls the non compete.

That’s what makes this so interesting.

The hospital main strategy is to try to hire the current docs back on full time or pay them locums rate to bridge the gap.

I don’t care how good “scope anesthesia” is at marketing themselves. They cannot find 50 locums anesthesiologists to cover charlotte area as a bridge gap until full time docs can be found. Let alone 100 MDs.

It’s a game of chicken. Mednax vs atrium.
 
Issues is docs have no real say in the matter. Mednax controls the non compete.

That’s what makes this so interesting.

The hospital main strategy is to try to hire the current docs back on full time or pay them locums rate to bridge the gap.

I don’t care how good “scope anesthesia” is at marketing themselves. They cannot find 50 locums anesthesiologists to cover charlotte area as a bridge gap until full time docs can be found. Let alone 100 MDs.

It’s a game of chicken. Mednax vs atrium.

I meant locums rates. You can extract a few pounds of flesh from a desperate group/hospital. Tax benefits are better for 1099 too.
 
Issues is docs have no real say in the matter. Mednax controls the non compete.

That’s what makes this so interesting.

The hospital main strategy is to try to hire the current docs back on full time or pay them locums rate to bridge the gap.

I don’t care how good “scope anesthesia” is at marketing themselves. They cannot find 50 locums anesthesiologists to cover charlotte area as a bridge gap until full time docs can be found. Let alone 100 MDs.

It’s a game of chicken. Mednax vs atrium.

Yes it is. But the case going before a judge who can grant an injunction is a wild card. A wild card that can go either way.
 
Issues is docs have no real say in the matter. Mednax controls the non compete.

That’s what makes this so interesting.

The hospital main strategy is to try to hire the current docs back on full time or pay them locums rate to bridge the gap.

I don’t care how good “scope anesthesia” is at marketing themselves. They cannot find 50 locums anesthesiologists to cover charlotte area as a bridge gap until full time docs can be found. Let alone 100 MDs.

It’s a game of chicken. Mednax vs atrium.


Bc the majority of the docs has nothing to do with the contract and the non compete and the fact pts usually do not choose a hospital based on the anesthesiologist is why I do not think the non compete will hold.
 
Bc the majority of the docs has nothing to do with the contract and the non compete and the fact pts usually do not choose a hospital based on the anesthesiologist is why I do not think the non compete will hold.
If the non compete is ruled invalid that would be the end of the AMC takeover model as we know it. You can’t buy out a group for millions of dollars if the hospital can get rid of you the next day with no consequences.
 
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Totally agree. You’d need so many so fast that the only real options (to get what, 100?! Even 50 MDs!) would be to lure lowest-common denominator locums or those otherwise unable to hold down a job. If I was a surgeon there, I’d be watching closely as this could be tough at a Level 1 trauma center

Desperate anesthesiologists or desperate group? Law of supply and demand tells me the individual anesthesiologists have the upper hand here. If they need 50-100 anesthesiologists quickly then they are going to have to offer a pretty sweet deal to attract that many people...especially when the situation looks like a mess to begin with. They’ll probably have to settle for some “low end” docs, but the only way to get that many docs quickly is to offer something more than anyone else in the region. It could be something for someone who wants to be in that region to keep an eye on.
 
If the non compete is ruled invalid that would be the end of the AMC takeover model as we know it. You can’t buy out a group for millions of dollars if the hospital can get rid of you the next day with no consequences.

it's a question of state law so any decision would not be applicable in other states
 
it's a question of state law so any decision would not be applicable in other states
Yes but I imagine there will be a few emergency board meetings at the AMC headquarters in Texas in Florida, and maybe a few stock market revaluations, even if it is only North Carolina.
 
And if anyone is decent they already have a job?
Yup. They are in crisis mode now. Since it’s around 3 months left till this gets resolved.

It’s a standstill. Obviously all hands on deck if this cannot get resolved by mid May. They will hold emergency meetings.

Each day a hospital cannot keep open an operating room costs the hospital at min $20k per room that has to be closed. That’s a minimum. Could be more. The money lost can be disastrous for the hospital system.
 
Did Mednax also get pushed out of a hospital in Raleigh, NC?

Is this something unique to the NC market?
 
Well, someone is flat out lying here.
These AMCs are known in my corner of the world to get entrenched with the promise of little or no subsidy, and then ratchet up these demands with each contract renewal to feed the beast. Likely what happened here, and they were relying on their size to get them through.
In any event, if you have a couple months to kill here soon you could likely get yourself a pretty sweet deal in Charlotte.
 
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In Atrium Health contract fight, doctors go on the offensive

There are millions of dollars at stake here. Dr. Wherry will likely earn $1-$2 million per year as CEO of Scope. Mednax will likely lose $3-$4 million per year in profits as a result of Getting fired by Atrium.

My numbers are way off. 86 MDs with Mednax likely making $125K profit per MD puts the profit at $10 million. Scope/Wherry could make upwards of $3 million or more from the contract with $3 million going back to Atrium.
 
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Is it remotely possible that Scope is the "good guy" here? Assuming the below is true and not straight out blatant lies, wouldn't the transfer of contract from Mednax to Scope in effect consist of cutting out the parasitic, cancerous corporate middleman and replacing it with this Wherry guy, who is an anesthesiologist himself? In that light, it's possible for Scope to reduce costs significantly without changing the supervision level or cutting physician salaries simply by virtue of eliminating that cut of revenue currently going to feed Mednax fat cats. A corp like that has lots of fat cats to feed so it needs to extract a huge pound of flesh off the top, whereas Wherry is just one guy and even a small fraction of that makes it worthwhile for him.

Dr. Thomas Wherry says doctor staffing won’t decrease when his Charlotte-based company, Scope Anesthesia of North Carolina, takes over July 1.

“The narrative that’s being spread that we’re reducing physicians ... is absolutely false,” Wherry told the Observer. “There will be no material reduction of physicians.”

Wherry emphasized benefits he said his business model will bring to Charlotte. He said Scope will pay its doctors the same or more than Southeast’s doctors. He also noted that privately run Scope will be able to provide services at lower costs because of less overhead than Mednax.

“I can say with confidence the revenue, instead of going to Florida and to Wall Street, it’s going to stay here in Charlotte for patient care and for support of the community,” said Wherry, who moved from Maryland to Charlotte this year to launch Scope.
 
Is it remotely possible that Scope is the "good guy" here? Assuming the below is true and not straight out blatant lies, wouldn't the transfer of contract from Mednax to Scope in effect consist of cutting out the parasitic, cancerous corporate middleman and replacing it with this Wherry guy, who is an anesthesiologist himself? In that light, it's possible for Scope to reduce costs significantly without changing the supervision level or cutting physician salaries simply by virtue of eliminating that cut of revenue currently going to feed Mednax fat cats. A corp like that has lots of fat cats to feed so it needs to extract a huge pound of flesh off the top, whereas Wherry is just one guy and even a small fraction of that makes it worthwhile for him.

???
 
Is it remotely possible that Scope is the "good guy" here? Assuming the below is true and not straight out blatant lies, wouldn't the transfer of contract from Mednax to Scope in effect consist of cutting out the parasitic, cancerous corporate middleman and replacing it with this Wherry guy, who is an anesthesiologist himself? In that light, it's possible for Scope to reduce costs significantly without changing the supervision level or cutting physician salaries simply by virtue of eliminating that cut of revenue currently going to feed Mednax fat cats. A corp like that has lots of fat cats to feed so it needs to extract a huge pound of flesh off the top, whereas Wherry is just one guy and even a small fraction of that makes it worthwhile for him.

There is zero chance he's the "good guy" as he has publicly professed no need for medical direction of CRNAs and his statement is 100% at odds with how he made his sales pitch to the hospital.

He's lying through his teeth.
 
There is zero chance he's the "good guy" as he has publicly professed no need for medical direction of CRNAs and his statement is 100% at odds with how he made his sales pitch to the hospital.

He's lying through his teeth.

Well if he's lying then obviously my question is moot. Do we know for a fact that his pitch to the hospital consisted of reducing physician staffing and increasing ratios though? Comments he made about doing away with supervision were in a context unrelated to this particular contract situation.

I'm sure he'd love to do away with supervision and increase ratios in his ideal hypothetical world, but then again is there a single administrator from sea to shining sea who wouldn't love to do that if he could easily get away with it? The question is never what someone would like to do, but what that person is going to actively and doggedly pursue against obstacles in the real world. I'd like to be an NBA player, after all, but you shouldn't count on it happening.
 
Well if he's lying then obviously my question is moot. Do we know for a fact that his pitch to the hospital consisted of reducing physician staffing and increasing ratios though? Comments he made about doing away with supervision were in a context unrelated to this particular contract situation.

I'm sure he'd love to do away with supervision and increase ratios in his ideal hypothetical world, but then again is there a single administrator from sea to shining sea who wouldn't love to do that if he could easily get away with it? The question is never what someone would like to do, but what that person is going to actively and doggedly pursue against obstacles in the real world. I'd like to be an NBA player, after all, but you shouldn't count on it happening.

Well he's talking about saving money by reducing the number of anesthesiologists from 100 to 60-70. I don't know how many locations they staff currently so don't know their current ratios, but I would guess they are probably at or close to 1:4 already since they are run by Mednax. So how are you going to cover the same number of sites and also reduce the number of anesthesiologists by 1/3rd without increasing ratios (or having surgeons/GI/cardiologists "supervise")?

Also, I know for a fact that they do peds cardiac cases there, and there's a 0% chance anyone is going to cover a peds heart room 1:4. The Gaswork posting for cardiac (adult and peds) lists 1:1 to 1:3, so they're not planning on 1:4 for those sites, either.
 
Well if he's lying then obviously my question is moot. Do we know for a fact that his pitch to the hospital consisted of reducing physician staffing and increasing ratios though?

I had a business person at that hospital who's colleague was part of the team he presented to relay that to me. It's 2nd hand info to me, but based on how correct everything else I'd gotten out of there has been I have no reason to doubt it.

Mednax might be a kinda evil big bad corporation, but they 100% support medical direction of CRNAs by anesthesiologists and they lobby for it.
 
Ok, according to what you guys are saying it seems he's lying through his teeth then. Too bad.

Still, maybe this situation suggests a way forward. If this Wherry guy can come in and steal a contract from a long established AMC, why can't another anesthesiologist do the same elsewhere, minus the whole "destroying the specialty with CRNAs" bit. There are lots of contracts out there where the AMCs are just parasitically sucking money away from both the doctors AND the hospital, some enterprising individual could come in and offer to kick 80% of the money going to the AMC back to the hospital, and keep 20% for himself without disrupting the anesthesia delivery model.
 
https://www.bizjournals.com/charlot...t-anesthesiology-sues-atrium-health-over.html

By Jennifer Thomas – Staff Writer, Charlotte Business Journal
Mar 27, 2018, 11:49am EDT Updated 7 hours ago

A contract battle over anesthesia services at Charlotte-area hospitals has landed in court. Southeast Anesthesiology Consultants, affiliated companies and Dr. Russell Sauder filed that lawsuit on Monday.

It alleges Atrium Health, Dr. Thomas Wherry and his companies, Total Anesthesia Solutions and Scope Anesthesia of North Carolina, have harmed Southeast Anesthesiology “through a scheme to restrain trade in the community and misappropriate plaintiffs’ trade secrets and confidential and proprietary information.”

It states those defendents obtained information under false pretenses and used it to establish a competing medical services provider.

Neither Atrium Health nor Wherry responded to a request for comment on Tuesday morning.

Wherry was hired by Atrium Health, known until recently as Carolinas HealthCare System, as a consultant in 2017 to review physician anesthesiology staffing models and look for efficiencies. Southeast shared highly confidential, sensitive business information and trade secrets — including business and patient service models — to assist with that evaluation, the lawsuit states.

Wherry presented those findings to the Charlotte-based health-care system in August. A contract between the parties was extended to June 30 to support negotiations.
Josh Miller, division medical officer with Mednax Inc., says the contract review appeared to be standard operating procedure. Atrium was looking at evaluating anesthesia services to see if there were opportunities for efficiencies.

Southeast, an affiliate of Mednax in Florida, conducted more than 135,000 procedures in the Charlotte market in 2017. It has roughly 90 physicians.

Ken Haynes, chief operating officer, and Dr. Roger Ray, chief physician executive.

“Contractual matters like this are typically handled privately between two organizations. Over the past several weeks, unfortunately, Mednax has communicated misleading and incorrect information about our ongoing plans for anesthesia services at Atrium Health,” it reads.

The memorandum states that in January 2018, Atrium notified Mednax that it was terminating its anesthesia services in facilities. It notes that Mednax “refused” to make services more affordable for patients.

Atrium Health since has tapped Scope Anesthesia — a practice founded by Wherry — to take over anesthesia services beginning July 1.

The memorandum states physician leadership at Atrium, including its surgeon-in-chief, support its new approach to anesthesia services.

It notes that Wherry has managed large anesthesia groups trained at Johns Hopkins Hospital and is certified by the American Board of Anesthesiology.

Atrium also adds it has transitioned away from Southeast anesthesia providers at four other Atrium Health facilities since 2014.

Scope is currently recruiting for positions in the market.
 
Atrium gonna to be fronting a couple
Of million to scope anesthesia

I know the way these contracts general work.

For instance. One of the big AMC took over my old practice almost 2 years ago. The hospital “cost savings” because a joke. Cause their agreement called for the hospital paying 50% of locums coverage for up to 1 year. And this was one of the big amc with their own side locums 100% wholly owned subsidies

So atrium/Carolina health gonna to be giving scope anesthesia millions in front loaded money to take over contract.

There is no cost savings to the patients. We all know that as well. The average simple appendectomy is around 20k. The hospital collects 70% of that revenue. So if average patient deductible is $4000-5000. And patient has 20k bill. All that deductible is used up. All the 10-20% co insurance is used up. Zero cost savings.
 
This Wherry guy sounds shady as hell. Like came on the pretense of “consulting” to see about saving money for the hospital, then learned the intimate details of this Mednax division, and flipped it against them by stealing the contract. I am no lawyer but they possibly have a case against him?

Damn. What a snake!

I would say I feel bad for Mednax, but I don’t really. Nor for the hospital or even this shady ass Wherry for being sued. They are all a bunch of snakes.
 
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Do we know for a fact that his pitch to the hospital consisted of reducing physician staffing and increasing ratios though?

It is a fact as documented in materials that he presented to the hospital although it is not-so-subtley veiled in a bunch of crap that only a consultant could come up with.
 
Those who know don’t speak.
Those who speak don’t know.
 
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Those who know don’t speak.
Those who speak don’t know.

Those who know share some details with others that are allowed to speak instead
 
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I know someone who was in the middle of contract talks with southeast when this happened and then sat down with Scope when takeover talks began. I believe they even had dinner with Scope leadership.

They were specifically told that supervision would be at 1:4, and no supervision stretched more than that directly from Scope. Looks like this was advertised as such in gasworks as well (1:4).

I, too, agree that Wherry sounds sketch based on what I have read (particularly that ASC Becker's review article posted above). That said, based on what I know from talking to people on the ground, it is going to maintain as a 1:4 supervision model.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
 
Those who know share some details with others that are allowed to speak instead

Southeast started a website with all the press releases a petition and details. The headline is "Anesthesiologists are being cut out of Surgery"
Your Critical Moment

Here is a little excerpt from the website:

Southeast Anesthesiology Consultants (SAC) is a large multi-disciplinary anesthesiology practice based in Charlotte. All of our physicians are board-certified or board-eligible, some in multiple specialties, and many are fellowship trained. We offer highly specialized anesthesia services including cardiovascular, critical care, neurological, pediatric, trauma, obstetric, orthopedic, transplant and acute/chronic pain, on a 24-hour basis at numerous Atrium Health facilities.

Atrium Health recently shared plans to adopt a radically different way of delivering anesthesia services at its hospitals and ancillary facilities, based on a greater reliance on Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists (CRNAs). Anesthesiologists would supervise CRNAs at significantly higher ratios than under the existing medical direction model. Atrium Health’s model also includes situations where CRNAs would function alone without anesthesiologist supervision.

While we believe in allowing our CRNA colleagues to perform at the top of their licenses, this proposal sets a dangerous precedent by allowing a corporation, specifically Atrium Health, to set standards for practicing medicine versus clinicians determining what is best for their patients’ care. We believe that these actions could seriously jeopardize patient safety and the ability to deliver optimal outcomes.

The new model may also have other far-reaching and negative implications for medical practitioners including:
  • Reducing the availability of sub-specialized anesthesiologists
  • Making it more difficult to recruit and retain top-notch medical talent to the state
  • Likely increasing legal liability exposure for medical facilities and practitioners such as surgeons and proceduralists
  • Threatening the economic livelihood of area anesthesiologists, since the model calls for a 25% reduction in the number of full-time anesthesiologists
Given Atrium Health’s dominant and aggressive actions related to area physicians, our state’s medical profession has reached a critical juncture where we must confront disingenuous efforts at cost-cutting that could threaten our patients’ safety, not to mention our own livelihoods.

As physicians, we all have a vital interest in upholding the highest standards of medical care. Actions like those taken by Atrium Health cannot come at the expense of patient care and safety in our communities. We must take a stand.
 
All of this sounds disgusting. Its like who is the lesser of the two evils. And 1:4 although common sounds awful as well. I know it's the job in many places now but who the hell wants to supervise 4 CRNAs.. that sounds brutal and draining.
 
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All of this sounds disgusting. Its like who is the lesser of the two evils. And 1:4 although common sounds awful as well. I know it's the job in many places now but who the hell wants to supervise 4 CRNAs.. that sounds brutal and draining.

Yes. Now, factor in a Level 1 hospital and STRETCH it to 5:1 (QZ billing) due to overlaps and add-on rooms. You will be exhausted most days.
 
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Yes. Now, factor in a Level 1 hospital and STRETCH it to 5:1 (QZ billing) due to overlaps and add-on rooms. You will be exhausted most days.
That’s what my group did before I landed at my current gig. I’ll tell you one thing, I learned a lot from them. :(
 
CHARLOTTE, NC (Deon Roberts/The Charlotte Observer) -
Mecklenburg Medical Group announced Monday that a group of its doctors has sued Charlotte-based Atrium Health, in a move by break away and operate independently of the hospital system.

The suit, filed in Mecklenburg County Superior Court, marks an attempt by the largest doctors practice operated by Atrium to sever ties with the Charlotte region's dominant hospital system, formerly known as Carolinas HealthCare.

RELATED: Carolinas HealthCare System changes name to Atrium Health

The doctors with Mecklenburg Medical, which became part of Carolinas HealthCare in 1993, in their suit accuse the system of monopolistic and anti-competitive behavior. The doctors say they want out of Atrium employment restrictions that would allow them to practice independently.

"Though purporting to be a non-profit institution, Atrium — with its bloated management bureaucracy — has repeatedly complained and contended that it 'loses' millions of dollars on the MMG physicians each year," the suit says, adding that Atrium has refused to release the doctors from their restrictions.

"In sum, Atrium is acting as the exact opposite of the non-profit health care provider that it claims to be."

Atrium did not immediately provide comment.

PREVIOUS: With new name, Atrium Health announces 'strategic combination' with Georgia health system

Mecklenburg Medical employs 104 doctors in several specialties, including dermatology, pulmonology and sleep medicine. Of those, 92 are suing Atrium and seeking to have the dispute heard in North Carolina Business Court, which handles complex business cases.

In their suit, the doctors claim Atrium has enacted changes that are harmful to patients. For example, under what Atrium called "care redesign" the system cut the number of assisting registered nurses helping doctors in clinical work, the suit says. Atrium also took all triage nurses out of practice facilities and warehoused them in a single building in Mint Hill, the suit says.

Atrium also did away with a practice of having a staff member in each practice office to answer patient calls, according to the suit. Atrium replaced those positions with a phone center in Mint Hill, the suit says.

Dr. Dale Owen, a cardiologist spearheading the effort to split away, said in an Observer interview that the move is designed to allow doctors to spend more quality time with patients and provide them with greater value. By getting away from Atrium and its large overhead costs, the doctors expect they'll be able to see patients for more than 15 minutes each, he said.

"That will allow us the opportunity and time to deal with these complex medical issues," Owen said.

For Atrium, it's another legal battle with a group of local doctors.

PREVIOUS: In Atrium Health contract fight, doctors go on the offensive

RELATED: Health care battle flares up as anesthesiologists sue Atrium Health over lost contract

Last week, a group of Charlotte anesthesiologists, Southeast Anesthesiology Consultants, sued Atrium over a lost contract. Among other concerns, the group has said it lost the contract after it refused to accept an offer from Atrium that would led to cuts in doctor compensation and Southeast having zero profit margin.

Atrium has said it did not renew the contract because, among other things, the company of which Southeast is an affiliate refused contract provisions that would have ensured patient safety.
 
This dispute has been ongoing, and Mednax has been losing other sites within this system. One of the main complaints I’ve seen is patients were all being billed “out of network”, which is common for these AMCs. So when a hospital gets enough complaints from patients about it, it will become an issue. It looks bad when a patient has a bill and everything is 0 except the anesthesia portion. They say they asked Mednax to rectify that, and they did not. Sounds like the CEO also had an issue with the Wall Street profit margins.
On a side note, when a CRNA we know called to inquire about the job, he says he was told Max ratio is 4:1, and approx half that for high acuity and cardiac cases.
 
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