Doctors are quitting - Not enough money. Too much BS. Too much fighting.

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loren646

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NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Some 5,000 patients suddenly found themselves without an ob/gyn last November when Dr. Tara Wah closed her practice in Tallahassee, Fla.
Wah, 55, informed her patients in a letter that she could "no longer afford to make ends meet."
After 24 years, "I'm working longer hours than ever," she wrote. "Insurance payments for patient care have stayed virtually the same for the last 15 years, while the cost of doing business, including health insurance, staff salaries and supplies have risen."
The rising cost of malpractice insurance, particularly for her specialty, was the straw that broke the camel's back.
"My malpractice insurance was $125,000 a year, and going up," said Wah. "The only way to get the extra money was to cut back on my salary."
But it wasn't always like that. Being a doctor was once thought to be a path to a cushy lifestyle. Six years after she started practicing, Wah hit her "peak" income year in 1990. Then she took a pay cut every year from 1993 onward, to eventually take no salary for two months prior to permanently shutting her office.
Wasted skills
Wah no longer practices medicine. Instead, she designs and repairs jewelry. "I feel guilty. I dream about [medicine]," she said. "[But] I am so angry. I think, 'What a waste of my training.' "
Wah's situation sheds light on a troubling trend of physicians leaving medicine for a career outside of health care, said Kurt Mosley, a staffing expert with Merritt Hawkins & Associates, a physician search and consulting firm.



A first-ever survey of 12,000 primary care physicians conducted last October by Merritt Hawkins and the Physicians' Foundation, an organization that represent the interests of physicians, showed that 10.1% of respondents planned to seek a job outside of health care in the next one to three years.
"That is a big number. It's just very sad," said Mosley, especially in light of the shortage of primary care doctors in the United States today.
The American Medical Association said it is aware of this trend, citing the survey, but said it does not have data to show how many doctors have already prematurely exited the profession.
Regardless, Mosley said it's a waste of training, skill, talent and money when a doctor leaves the profession in mid-career.
It takes a minimum of 10 to 12 years of training to become a doctor. In Wah's case, she underwent 10 years of training, including medical school and residency, before she entered the workforce.
While some enter medicine because they believe it pays well, most choose it as a career because they feel it's their calling.
"For many it's not about the money. They have a passion for it, to take care of people," said Mosley. "It's not easy to feel that passionately for another career after medicine."
Waste of taxpayer money
It's also a waste of taxpayer money when a physician opts out. "We are all paying out of our pockets to produce doctors," said Mosley.
That's because medical residency programs are mostly funded by Medicare to the tune of $9 billion to train about 100,000 residents annually, according to the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission.
"It's Medicare that funds hospital costs to house residency programs, pay salaries of residents and sometimes pay faculties' salaries," said Mosley.
Dr. Patricia Perry, 44, a dermatologist based in Burbank, Calif., operates a solo practice. She mostly performs medical procedures such as skin biopsies.
Perry said she's "seeking to get out" of her profession because she's fed up with insurance reimbursement challenges while struggling to cover other costs associated with being a doctor.
"When you get to a point where you feel unappreciated and you're arguing with people about being paid, it takes away the passion for what you do," Perry said.
Daryl Richard, a spokesman for insurer UnitedHealthcare (UHC), said his company is taking steps to address some of providers' concerns.
"We agree 100% that there is too much paperwork" tied to reimbursement claims, he said.
Richard said UnitedHealthcare offers a Web-based application to all of its providers that will enable the company to adjudicate claims to determine a reimbursement and a patient's out-of-pocket expense "by the time the patient makes it to the (doctor's) front desk."
"This takes away some of the unknown for both providers and consumers," he added.
Perry pays $2,500 a year in malpractice insurance. "I am licensed in three states. To maintain my license I have to pay a fee every one to two years in each state," she said. She also pays a considerable amount of money every year to attend annual trade conferences required by her specialty to update and hone her skills.



She said many physicians are scared to speak out about their money woes because they don't want to be perceived as "greedy."
"I have news for you. You are already being perceived that way," she said.
Dr. Kenneth Cohn, a general surgeon with an MBA who tours the country advising doctors on non-clinical job options, says there's a high-level of angst among U.S. physicians. "There's absolutely a greater number who are looking for other job opportunities," he said.
It's a reality that we have to deal with, Cohn said. The implication of it on the health care system, he said, is that doctors may have to increasingly use nurse practitioners and physicians assistants to fill in the gaps. They may also need to look to newer delivery concepts such as medical homes, in which doctor take more of a managerial role in a patient's health care.
'Insurance company is dictating what I do'
Dr. Douglas Evans, 50, a pediatrician based in St. Joseph, Mo., said he's considering a mid-career change if insurer-provider relations aren't reformed.
"I had a young football player in my office [this week]. His symptoms indicate a problem with his neck," he said in an example. "But I have to get authorization from his insurance company first to get an X-ray or an MRI. It's an example of how insurance companies dictate to me what I have to do."
Evans is frustrated that this process will delay treatment by several days.
"My first concern is that he's young and has his career in front of him," he said. "My second concern is that there's a predatory lawyer out there," meaning that if his patient's condition worsens while he waits to get authorization, it could expose him to a malpractice suit.
And Evans said insufficient reimbursement from insurers is posing a heavy financial burden on his practice.
"You can't go to Wal-Mart (WMT, Fortune 500) and pay half the price for a loaf of bread and take the whole bread," he said. Still, he said many doctors have a hard time turning away patients for this reason alone, and end up absorbing the costs.
He warns that unless things improve, only those providers who can't afford to do something else will be left in the system. "I am looking for something that's still science related, like teaching biology at a university," said Evans.
Wah is disillusioned and disappointed, but maybe not completely bitter.
"For the young doctors who are just getting started, I want to say don't give up," she said.
"After taking some time off , I might be able to do some volunteer work," she said. "I do love medicine, but I'm not [mentally] in a place right now to come back."


http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/14/new...ors_quitting/index.htm?postversion=2009091404

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There are probably still niches within medicine where you can survive. I know for sure that things are not looking up for future doctors, but honestly it's too late for me to change my mind.
 
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heres my thoughts on this.

Initially, instinctually, naturally - I want to learn from their mistakes and leave before I dig myself too deep. I want to get out of the burning house, when I see others running - everyone does. I don't want to be one of those people who enter the burning house and leave in the same manner as all the present day people.

You cannot deny the obvious turmoil with all that is going on with the desired profession. But you absolutely can't ignore the fact that regardless of all this mumble jumble, admist all of this nitty gritty - that people, families, and friends are going to need people to take care of them. We can't all pack up our bags and leave when the going gets tough.

How do I deny the desires of wanting to become a practicing physician?

Tell me how and I will set aside all that I am doing and pursue a different career.
 
it's pretty pathetic really. the public still views doctors' lifestyles as rich and easycome. they don't realize the amount of time, effort, and money it takes to become and educated-all the way from undergrad as a premed to residency and to practice. if you ever go and view the comments on news articles about healthcare reform, people complain about doctors being greedy and only looking out for their interests. when i see this, i think to myself: wat the hell. insurance and a ridiculously litigious society are beginning/have been squeezing physicians for quite some time while the public blames physicians for everything because physicians are the level of healthcare they actually interact with directly.

the sense of entitlement of society these days is disgusting, everyone feels like everything should be handed to them on a flipping silver platter WITHOUT having to pay for it. they moan and complain about everything without actually looking into the issue as to what really causes these problems. pisses me off. i mean seriously, i want to go into medicine because, believe it or don't, i actually want to help people. i am for lowering the costs of healthcare for people, especially those who can't afford it. really. but *****s go around trying to cut costs where they cannot be cut. we need reform, i get it, but the means in which it should be implemented matters. a lot.

how and what should the solution be? heck if i know, i didn't/haven't spent years studying economics or public health. you would think those who did would be able to figure it out.

i hate people.
seriously.
and yet i want to heal them.
go figure.

maybe once i'm financially solvent i'll ditch this crappy system and go practice in an isolated rural area or a third world country where people don't bite the hand that feeds...and if they do, it'd be understandable and tolerable because they have been neglected all this time.


/end rant
it's late.
i'm grumpy.
 
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Tort reform, now!! :mad:

:bang:


:beat:

Why would a country run by lawyers want to change a system that is beneficial to them, we need doctors to regulate the legal industry <http://adoc2be.blogspot.com/2009/09/if-lawyers-are-going-to-regulate.html>.
 
I think a lot of the people that are quitting or failing are doing so more because their heart wasn't in it as much as they expected, they ran their practice poorly, or a combination of the two. We've had numerous docs at my school say they feel these reports are vastly distorted. While docs are needed and the pay isn't stellar, most docs aren't quitting or losing their practice and the money isn't so bad that they living like paupers unless they are idiots with their finances. The average income for a FP is around 150k. Even after taxes and student loan payments, you could still be living a pretty comfortable lifestyle. The people that go and buy new cars, a house that is way too big and all sorts of shiny new toys and then don't work enough hours or manage their practice poorly are going to be hurting.
 
This is crazy. I heard a similar story speaking with one of the doctors I work with at a local free clinic.

Both she and her husband are physicians but she has stopped practicing full-time to raise their children. She has continued to work a few weekends each month as a hospitalist in a local hospital and some evenings at a local free clinic when her husband can watch the kids.

This year her malpractice insurance jumped to the point that she will need to take almost two months pay from her part-time work just to cover the insurance costs. She loves practicing so much that she is willing to do that. Recently though she found out that next year her insurance will almost double.

How sad is it that a doctor eager to work can't even afford to do so? I'm sure there are even more in similar situations...or others who would work part-time into their retirement if they could afford to do so.
 
I run a business, albiet nothing like a medical private practice. Sounds like this doctor gave pay raises to her employees and didn't want to decrease her salary and didn't make chances to the practice to cut costs or find a way to increase company profit.

Running a private practice is hard. The thing is, not all areas of medicine allow for a person to run a private practice in today's envrionment. I have a good friend whos dad has a private family practice in a suburb of a city that is around $250,000. He made just over $200,000 last year. The doctor told me his practice is healthy and even cut back on staffing and gave raises to a couple of his employees for taking on new responsibilities.

I remember reading an article about some neurologist in Florida that closed his practice because he refused to spend less than 45 minutes to 1 hour with his patients. You can't think and run a practice like that. Would I ever spend 45 m inutes on the phone talking to any of my clients? Heck no! That is lost time for them and me.

If you have a good understanding of accounting practices, taxes, how to increase profit, and are will to adapt your practices to make ends meet, you can survive. The issue with OB/GYN is the malpractice insurance. The cost is sooooooooo high that it eats up a high percentage of the company profit.

I don't know anything about her area, but maybe some docs will need to join practices together to make it.

At the end of the day, everyone needs to remember that you only live once. There may come a time where many of you (and also possibly me) get sick of being a doctor and want to do something else for a while. Remember we only live once.

IT IS A SHAME, on a national level, to train doctors for over a decade and not be able to afford a private practice.

By the time many of the pre-meds here who do get into medical school and become attendings, life may be worse or better. Toooooooo hard to predict.

Like you said running a business is hard. Its a shame that a doctor cant spend as much time as he would like to with his patients. Its also detrimental to the patient health and satisfaction.

Seeing as how medicine has been going downhill for the last 10 years I dont see it getting better anytime soon. The problem with pre-meds is they dont believe people when they say how bad it is or they think it will not matter because they will love it so much. I guess all you can do is hope that when your done with life sucking trainning we at least get to use the skills we acquired aand provide for our families.
 
sucks that america is 'sue first, ask questions later' country. other countries are appalled at the idea of a malpractice suit.
 
...But it wasn't always like that. Being a doctor was once thought to be a path to a cushy lifestyle...While some enter medicine because they believe it pays well, most choose it as a career because they feel it's their calling...She said many physicians are scared to speak out about their money woes because they don't want to be perceived as "greedy."

Whoever is entering the medical profession for money is seriously disturbed. Yes, doctors are very fortunate to have the opportunities that they have and they do live more comfortably than most, but that doesn't mean they get to buy whatever they want whenever they want. Doctors can make several hundred thousand dollars, but I don't hear the American public complaining about actors and professional athletes making $10+ million, and that's without endorsements. I guess people can't live without their entertainment.
 
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Whoever is entering the medical profession for money is seriously disturbed. Yes, doctors are very fortunate to have the opportunities that they have and they do live more comfortably than most, but that doesn't mean they get to buy whatever they want whenever they want. Doctors can make several hundred thousand dollars, but I don't hear the American public complaining about actors and professional athletes making $10+ million, and that's without endorsements. I guess people can't live without their entertainment.

Seriously disturbed? I wouldn't go that far. I really don't care what someone's motivation is for entering medicine, as long as he/she's motivated.
 
Seriously disturbed? I wouldn't go that far. I really don't care what someone's motivation is for entering medicine, as long as he/she's motivated.

Well... I would say disturbed in that going into it for the money is not the most intelligent idea. If your only goal in life is to make lots of money, then you would be better off looking at another professional career. Logically.
 
but I'm sure most pre-meds here have no idea exactly how much it costs to operate a private practice (rent, taxes, employees, equipment, marketing/advertising, etc).

True, but I have virtually no intention of going into private practice.
 
There are probably still niches within medicine where you can survive. I know for sure that things are not looking up for future doctors, but honestly it's too late for me to change my mind.

Since you are not a medical student, it definitely is not too late to change your mind and pursue a different career if you are having doubts about medicine. When you actually are a medical student, and sinking deeper and deeper into debt, then it becomes difficult to change your career trajectory.

At this point in your life, you still have options. Those options will diminish once you enter med school, given the economics.
 
Since you are not a medical student, it definitely is not too late to change your mind and pursue a different career if you are having doubts about medicine. When you actually are a medical student, and sinking deeper and deeper into debt, then it becomes difficult to change your career trajectory.

At this point in your life, you still have options. Those options will diminish once you enter med school, given the economics.

:thumbup:
 
Since you are not a medical student, it definitely is not too late to change your mind and pursue a different career if you are having doubts about medicine. When you actually are a medical student, and sinking deeper and deeper into debt, then it becomes difficult to change your career trajectory.

At this point in your life, you still have options. Those options will diminish once you enter med school, given the economics.

Forgive me, I did not mean to say that I am considering a career change. I don't have the will or desire to really change my mind about medicine. I think that best describes how I feel.
 
Do you realize there are three different types of private practice? The hardest type is putting an office up in some random building and trying to make ends meet. The ones that are closing are usually this type.

So? I'm just saying that I really have no intention of getting into private practice - whatever the model might be. Again, it may end up happening, but that is not my intention at this point.
 
I don't get why she didn't just move. Her malpractice costs would have been cut in half if she had moved to a state like Louisiana, that has better tort reform. Or she could have joined a group. Or worked in primary care. I mean, I can see why her business model might not work, but that doesn't mean the next best option is designing jewelry
 
I mean, I can see why her business model might not work, but that doesn't mean the next best option is designing jewelry

Haha...this I definitely agree with. Just because there's an obstacle to surviving as a doctor doesn't mean you give up medicine (if you really do love it) and go make jewelry.
 
Haha...this I definitely agree with. Just because there's an obstacle to surviving as a doctor doesn't mean you give up medicine (if you really do love it) and go make jewelry.
I don't even care about loving it. From a strictly financial standpoint, do you really think that she makes over 250K/year making jewelry? Because that's still the average salery for an Ob/Gyn in plenty of states.

Ob/gyn, along with neurosurgery, definitely has one of the most variable salaries because it depends so much on tort reform. In states like Illinois an Ob barely breaks 100, in Louisiana or Texas they're closing in on 300. I just get the feeling this woman was the last doctor on earth to figure that out.
 
The problem i see is that her business is turning from a doctor to a debt collection agency. A lot of people I know quit altogether because it's just a constant headache and battle to get money from people and insurance companies.
 
Making jewelry is my new cop out.

Some person you never really talk to:

"Hey Coolwhipp! I heard you surf, we should hit up the waves sometime man."

Me:

"Nah, I'm good. Actually, I'm pretty busy... gotta meet some deadlines you know."

Some person again:

"Oh really. What do you do?"

Me:

"I make jewelry."
 
It is hard to judge someone if you are not in their shoes. I have been in the medical field since 2002. I have definitely noticed a decrease in patient appreciation for what medical personal does. My friend is a neurosurgeon in NY, in 2003 his malpractice insurance was about 250k. I'm not sure what it is now. It all depends on the subspecialty you are in. Most physicians, don't have a clue on how to run a business. This is not what they learn in medical school or residency. Good portion of them share one common thought, they feel unappreciated.

Unfortunately, today's health care is dictated by lawyers and insurance companies. As health care providers, the fact that your can get sued at anytime, even when you save a life, never escapes your mind. I have seen docs dragged through the mud by the very same people who are a live only because of the skills, knowledge and quick thinking of their health care providers.

Ultimately, we are all in the medical field to save lives. There is nothing in the world that will beat the feeling that you get when you saved someone's life. When because of you another person is able to walk and have a normal life is unparalleled by anything else.

I think we are in desperate need of health care reform. The private insurance companies are dictating how medicine is practiced. They are in business of making money and showing large profits and not paying for medical bills of their clients. They will do everything and anything they can not to pay your medical bill. The sooner our government can put an end to this, the better all of us will be.

I hope to one day become a physician not because of the monetary gain it has to offer but because I want to learn how to save lives! Our health is all we have and being able to fix it, is the most noble calling out there.
 
I love this part, it's the kind of **** we need to cut completely out. Or at least let the patient's insurance companiy be sued, with the doctor having ZERO liability.

"I had a young football player in my office [this week]. His symptoms indicate a problem with his neck," he said in an example. "But I have to get authorization from his insurance company first to get an X-ray or an MRI. It's an example of how insurance companies dictate to me what I have to do."
Evans is frustrated that this process will delay treatment by several days.
"My first concern is that he's young and has his career in front of him," he said. "My second concern is that there's a predatory lawyer out there," meaning that if his patient's condition worsens while he waits to get authorization, it could expose him to a malpractice suit.
 
Don't open a private practice.


Game and match.

I will probably get ridiculed for this, but as long as one is not a primary care or private practice physician, being an MD is still a very lucrative career.
 
It is hard to judge someone if you are not in their shoes. I have been in the medical field since 2002. I have definitely noticed a decrease in patient appreciation for what medical personal does. My friend is a neurosurgeon in NY, in 2003 his malpractice insurance was about 250k. I'm not sure what it is now. It all depends on the subspecialty you are in. Most physicians, don't have a clue on how to run a business. This is not what they learn in medical school or residency. Good portion of them share one common thought, they feel unappreciated.

Unfortunately, today's health care is dictated by lawyers and insurance companies. As health care providers, the fact that your can get sued at anytime, even when you save a life, never escapes your mind. I have seen docs dragged through the mud by the very same people who are a live only because of the skills, knowledge and quick thinking of their health care providers.

Ultimately, we are all in the medical field to save lives. There is nothing in the world that will beat the feeling that you get when you saved someone's life. When because of you another person is able to walk and have a normal life is unparalleled by anything else.

I think we are in desperate need of health care reform. The private insurance companies are dictating how medicine is practiced. They are in business of making money and showing large profits and not paying for medical bills of their clients. They will do everything and anything they can not to pay your medical bill. The sooner our government can put an end to this, the better all of us will be.

I hope to one day become a physician not because of the monetary gain it has to offer but because I want to learn how to save lives! Our health is all we have and being able to fix it, is the most noble calling out there.

That too.
 
you guys know nothing about medicine if you think doctors have it so bad. every profession has it bad right now. even if salaries are not what you expect, at least doctors can ALWAYS find a job.

obviously, most of you are still in school and don't truly understand the trouble for ppl these days to simply FIND a job.

also, it's all about being smart in what field you go into. yes, OB/GYN will suck bc of malpractice. it is still doable if you deliver lots of babies, though. the main risk is if you only do SOME OB/GYN as a family medicine doc because the malpractice insurance for OB certainly is not paid for by only a few deliveries. if you go into a lucractive specialty, you will make plenty of money anywhere. while doctors don't have it as good as in the past, you still are pretty much guaranteed a job, job security, and a moderate wage to support a family. what more do you want? stop complaining. complainers are the ones who only went into medicine for the money.
 
More job security for me.

I think that is the least of a doctors worries, at least as far as supply and demand. Like said above, it would be the most secure job out there if our country was not over-saturated with lawyers.

But the baby boomers are getting older. There will be an extreme shortage of all health care professionals, including MD's. Hence, less MD's + great demand = good salary. I'm not too worried.
 
Yea, but what about liability, malpractice insurance, employees, etc.

primary care physicians don't get sued THAT much. it's really bad for OB/GYN. PCPs get sued when they attempt complicated OB stuff. that's why PCPS only deliver straightforward pregnancies. as a potental future PCP, I am not going to do any OB because it's not worth the insurance. plus, that's one of the fields in medicine I have no interest in at all. so no problem here. :thumbup:

and even with all those things listed, the PCP still makes enough money to support a family. they just aren't always as "rich" as they expected to be.

plus, if the doctor is being way overworked like in this article, then that's the doctor's fault. the key is to not burn yourself out. at some point, you have to think about yourself and figure out how many patients you can handle. when you can't handle any more pts, then you have to close your clinic to new patients for a while. if you can't pay all your employees without taking away all your salary, then you have to reduce the # of employees and make your pt. population smaller. or you have to combine your clinic with someone else's. private practice is still the best way to go, but in a group. i would never open a practice by myself.
 
Earnings are after expenses.

well done sir..:cool:

I guess what I was getting at was how fast all that could be taken away with one lawsuit. I think the way to go would be to open a practice with multiple physicians.
 
People like this make me mad. Quitting medicine you have to be kidding me. Heres my take on this. Sure docs don't make as much as they used to but it still can be lucrative if you are willing to work hard. If this person isn't happy with her practice she should move. There are like 20 ob/gyn jobs on this website that will get you 300K a year. http://www.merritthawkins.com/job-s...ian&specialtyId=18&regionId=-1#jobGridResults

My take is that this person got into medicine for the wrong reasons. Made a lot of money in her private practice but recently cut her hours because she became burnt out and disinterested. Cutting her hours resulted in dramatic salary decrease. She has enough money saved that she no longer needs to practice. She is exaggerating her circumstances for the sake of this stupid article. I think SDN exaggerates the negatives of medicine. I always thought of medicine as a lucrative career path until I went on these forums. Go on some law, engineering or business forums everyone there says if you want to make money go into medicine. I have never met a doctor that doesn't have a bmw/mercedes and owns a large house. I think if you are willing to put in the hours you will be wealthy in medicine.
 
Haha okay, I think the real reason we think that the OB woman who quit is an idiot, is not because she was complaining about making enough money. It's that she quit and became a jewelry designer. WTF?! This makes me question her judgment to begin with (and the medical school admissions committee that accepted her).
 
I have never met a doctor that doesn't have a bmw/mercedes and owns a large house. I think if you are willing to put in the hours you will be wealthy in medicine.

I swear to God, if I ever become a doctor (which seems more hopeless each day), I will never have a BMW, Mercedes, etc. Or a large house. At most, I will have the type of house my parents raised me in. I didn't spend all of high school and college taking hard classes and enjoying learning just so that I could eventually buy a symbol of status that I ridiculed other people for having.
 
I swear to God, if I ever become a doctor (which seems more hopeless each day), I will never have a BMW, Mercedes, etc. Or a large house. At most, I will have the type of house my parents raised me in. I didn't spend all of high school and college taking hard classes and enjoying learning just so that I could eventually buy a symbol of status that I ridiculed other people for having.

That is commendable, and I would agree. But there are many who do not have the same idea.
 
Haha okay, I think the real reason we think that the OB woman who quit is an idiot, is not because she was complaining about making enough money. It's that she quit and became a jewelry designer. WTF?! This makes me question her judgment to begin with (and the medical school admissions committee that accepted her).

Ha, well it has to pay better than her last 2 months as a physician, where her take home was zero.
 
I swear to God, if I ever become a doctor (which seems more hopeless each day), I will never have a BMW, Mercedes, etc. Or a large house. At most, I will have the type of house my parents raised me in. I didn't spend all of high school and college taking hard classes and enjoying learning just so that I could eventually buy a symbol of status that I ridiculed other people for having.

I wish I had your personality I unfortunately am a materialistic person. But I mean if we do end up becoming doctors there's nothing wrong with indulging yourself i mean we work extremely hard. Everyone has there own way of bragging. For me it would be a new mercedes. For you its showing off how altruistic and righteous you are
 
I swear to God, if I ever become a doctor (which seems more hopeless each day), I will never have a BMW, Mercedes, etc. Or a large house. At most, I will have the type of house my parents raised me in. I didn't spend all of high school and college taking hard classes and enjoying learning just so that I could eventually buy a symbol of status that I ridiculed other people for having.

Meh, i'll definitely buy whatever i want. I'm still deciding between the following two plans.

A) Live it up, buy all kinds of ****, live to the peak of my means and retire when i'm old and crusty.

B) Live very conservatively (50k-60K) a year lifestyle. Invest heavily and retire at a young age (late 40's or early 50's).

There is no chance I'm gonna live conservatively AND work until I'm too old to have fun. Talk about a raw deal.
 
I wish I had your personality I unfortunately am a materialistic person. But I mean if we do end up becoming doctors there's nothing wrong with indulging yourself i mean we work extremely hard.

Agreed, what would be the point in having money if you aren't going to spend it?
 
Interesting article I saw today:

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=506199
45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

By TERRY JONES, INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILYPosted 09/15/2009 07:09 PM ET

Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted, a new IBD/TIPP Poll has found.
The poll contradicts the claims of not only the White House, but also doctors' own lobby — the powerful American Medical Association — both of which suggest the medical profession is behind the proposed overhaul.
It also calls into question whether an overhaul is even doable; 72% of the doctors polled disagree with the administration's claim that the government can cover 47 million more people with better-quality care at lower cost.
The IBD/TIPP Poll was conducted by mail the past two weeks, with 1,376 practicing physicians chosen randomly throughout the country taking part. Responses are still coming in, and doctors' positions on related topics — including the impact of an overhaul on senior care, medical school applications and drug development — will be covered later in this series.
Major findings included:
•Two-thirds, or 65%, of doctors say they oppose the proposed government expansion plan. This contradicts the administration's claims that doctors are part of an "unprecedented coalition" supporting a medical overhaul.
It also differs with findings of a poll released Monday by National Public Radio that suggests a "majority of physicians want public and private insurance options," and clashes with media reports such as Tuesday's front-page story in the Los Angeles Times with the headline "Doctors Go For Obama's Reform."
Nowhere in the Times story does it say doctors as a whole back the overhaul. It says only that the AMA — the "association representing the nation's physicians" and what "many still regard as the country's premier lobbying force" — is "lobbying and advertising to win public support for President Obama's sweeping plan."
The AMA, in fact, represents approximately 18% of physicians and has been hit with a number of defections by members opposed to the AMA's support of Democrats' proposed health care overhaul.
•Four of nine doctors, or 45%, said they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement" if Congress passes the plan the Democratic majority and White House have in mind.
More than 800,000 doctors were practicing in 2006, the government says. Projecting the poll's finding onto that population, 360,000 doctors would consider quitting.
 
heres my thoughts on this.

Initially, instinctually, naturally - I want to learn from their mistakes and leave before I dig myself too deep. I want to get out of the burning house, when I see others running - everyone does. I don't want to be one of those people who enter the burning house and leave in the same manner as all the present day people.

You cannot deny the obvious turmoil with all that is going on with the desired profession. But you absolutely can't ignore the fact that regardless of all this mumble jumble, admist all of this nitty gritty - that people, families, and friends are going to need people to take care of them. We can't all pack up our bags and leave when the going gets tough.

How do I deny the desires of wanting to become a practicing physician?

Tell me how and I will set aside all that I am doing and pursue a different career.

Honestly, with all of the caution coming from the camp of practicing physicians and my own tenuous status as a future applicant, I'd seriously consider pursuing another career path if there were anything else I'd remotely be interested in doing for a living.
 
Honestly, with all of the caution coming from the camp of practicing physicians and my own tenuous status as a future applicant, I'd seriously consider pursuing another career path if there were anything else I'd remotely be interested in doing for a living.

I have the same problem. But I bet in about 5-10 years we'll be able to think of all kinds of **** we would rather be doing. :laugh:
 
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