Doctor's lifestyle and salary vs. Dentist lifestyle and salary

[Meibomian SxN]

After seeing the latest Jersey Shore episode of Ronnie having to get his bleeding rectum examined by the Family Physician, I would most DEFINITELY pass off rims or teeth ANYDAY!

I meant to say rims for teeth (or eyes in my case) ANYDAY!

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[Romas]

Ok either you have always wanted to be a dentist, then that's great. Or you can't hack it in a med school so you take the easy route. I personally think being a dentist would be boring!!!

Another thing not all physicians do it for the money, many do it for the fact they love helping people, and there are so many different ways you can go and what you can do, the list of feilds is to long to list.
While being a dentist you pretty much fill cavities, crowns, some root canals etc. Sounds boring as hell to me.

Just face it M.D.'s & D.O.'s it where it's at, it's the top!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Being a dentist definitely isn't boring, and I don;t see how you can limit physicians to being the only professionals that "help people." A little thinking would help you arrive at the fact that dentists indeed diagnose and treat diseases of the oral cavity, including ones that are either very painful or very embarassing for many patients. It's continually rewarding to be able to help these patients in a way no MD ever could.

I think a lot of the reason people choose dental school over the med route is that dentistry allows you so much more freedom vs. the bureaucratic b.s. of medicine today. As someone from a family of M.D.s, including surgeons, cardiologists, and future M.D.s, I can honestly say I'm thankful I didn't get bullied into the med route by comments like the above - I love working with my hands, and think that is one of the greatest appeals of dentistry. THere is absolutely nothing boring about that, and requires my attention more so than following pre-set protocols for treating diseases as many doctors do - definitely not "boring as hell." The only way I could get the combined effect of treating patients and using hands-on skills is as a surgeon, but I have no desire to work those kinds of hours.

Not to mention, that save for choice few medical residencies, most specialties in medicine are also super boring or unappealing. Can someone say anesthesia or psych? Even rads is pretty bad, esp if you go into med school with the philosophy that you want to directly treat patients, as you said above. The only reason derm, for example, is such a big deal now is because the lifestyle approximates that of a dentist! you could similarly reduce the specialty to popping zits and zapping wrinkles...but obviously that's not true (though it seems that's where the money is these days!)

In short, people who do dentistry should be aware of the unique demands of the field...don't apply and get in without having the realization that you're going to be physically working in a tiny space your entire life, and taht you have to have a genuine interest in the oral cavity and teeth to be happy with it as a career! If you have no hand skills, don't bother to apply and make yourself miserable!

 

[DocJL]

Being a dentist definitely isn't boring, and I don;t see how you can limit physicians to being the only professionals that "help people." A little thinking would help you arrive at the fact that dentists indeed diagnose and treat diseases of the oral cavity, including ones that are either very painful or very embarassing for many patients. It's continually rewarding to be able to help these patients in a way no MD ever could.

I think a lot of the reason people choose dental school over the med route is that dentistry allows you so much more freedom vs. the bureaucratic b.s. of medicine today. As someone from a family of M.D.s, including surgeons, cardiologists, and future M.D.s, I can honestly say I'm thankful I didn't get bullied into the med route by comments like the above - I love working with my hands, and think that is one of the greatest appeals of dentistry. THere is absolutely nothing boring about that, and requires my attention more so than following pre-set protocols for treating diseases as many doctors do - definitely not "boring as hell." The only way I could get the combined effect of treating patients and using hands-on skills is as a surgeon, but I have no desire to work those kinds of hours.

Not to mention, that save for choice few medical residencies, most specialties in medicine are also super boring or unappealing. Can someone say anesthesia or psych? Even rads is pretty bad, esp if you go into med school with the philosophy that you want to directly treat patients, as you said above. The only reason derm, for example, is such a big deal now is because the lifestyle approximates that of a dentist! you could similarly reduce the specialty to popping zits and zapping wrinkles...but obviously that's not true (though it seems that's where the money is these days!)

In short, people who do dentistry should be aware of the unique demands of the field...don't apply and get in without having the realization that you're going to be physically working in a tiny space your entire life, and taht you have to have a genuine interest in the oral cavity and teeth to be happy with it as a career! If you have no hand skills, don't bother to apply and make yourself miserable!

+1 all of the above.

Very well articulated.

 

[WeGotNow]

Hi guys,
I am currently debating whether or not to take the HPSP armed forces scholarship as I am about to enter my first year in Med School. Although money is not the primary reason I would choose to take the scholarship it is a major factor.
So I have just been trying to gather facts about life as an attending.
Here is my question: If I were to make $220,000 as an attending in some speciality generally how much tax would be taken out of that salary?
I know that the amount of tax depends on many other factors but I am completely lost as to how much money a doctor would bring home if he or she had a salary of that magnitude or greater.
Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[digitlnoize]

If you have no hand skills, don't bother to apply and make yourself miserable!

And this is exactly why I didn't go into dentistry...or surgery for that matter.

 

[GeneralChowFun]

.

 

[Slack3r]

Oh and I scored in the 94th percentile on the MCAT (12PS, 11V, 12BS) only I didn't just study for two weeks........... Probably would have been funnier if I said I did, but then where would my credibility be???

 

[GeneralChowFun]

Don't worry...... With any luck you'll get into Nogales Community College of Medicine, oops I mean U of A, next year and you won't have to hate on other professions or tests to make yourself feel like you accomplished something..... Good Advice..... don't Playa Hate......

 

[Slack3r]

Don't worry...... With any luck you'll get into Nogales Community College of Medicine, oops I mean U of A, next year and you won't have to hate on other professions or tests to make yourself feel like you accomplished something..... Good Advice..... don't Playa Hate......

Do I sense a Scum Devil?

 

[GeneralChowFun]

Do I sense a Scum Devil?

.......

 

[pacificNW]

It seems that the general trend is that all salaries are going down relative to cost of living.

I am looking for my first job as a dentist and even travelling to "out of the way" places to work for higher pay, it looks like starting salaries are only 100k. Sounds like a lot of money, until you realize that if you have 240k in loans, like me, you will need to earn a good bit more than what is available to pay these down. Loans for me will require 24-36k per year in annual payments. Taxes take out even more. So, for a "good" starting pay I'm expecting to make about 30k per year after taxes.

The "best" students will do better, as is normal. But if you are an average student, like me, this isn't a cake walk.

All of your friends will just think of you as rich however.

 

[manish0109]

Well, Dentist profession is useful only when you own a shop. You cant earn enough working for some other dentist or even a hospital. If you can afford to have your own shop then must go for dentistry.

It needs lot of money to become a dentist but after that you also earn a lot of money

 

[Lethstang]

Ok either you have always wanted to be a dentist, then that's great. Or you can't hack it in a med school so you take the easy route. I personally think being a dentist would be boring!!!

Another thing not all physicians do it for the money, many do it for the fact they love helping people, and there are so many different ways you can go and what you can do, the list of feilds is to long to list.
While being a dentist you pretty much fill cavities, crowns, some root canals etc. Sounds boring as hell to me.

Just face it M.D.'s & D.O.'s it where it's at, it's the top!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will have to respectfully disagree with you sir. Dental and med school both have ~40% acceptance rate, very similar average gpa/sci gpa (within .1 if i recall). I agree with another poster MCAT is more difficult though.

Then once youre in, your first two years of dental/med are nearly identical, the big difference being the dental students have to worry about lab in addition to the didactic. At many schools, youre in the exact same courses with eachother. Same teachers. Same grading. Same standards. The difference comes in your last two years, where dr's shadow in hospitals and dentists shadow in clinics. I believe this misconception in difficulty between the two schools by the general public is because physicians save lives and dentists do not, so the physician has to be smarter and the curriculum more difficult. Its understandable.

The fact you're a DO and making these assertions puts a small smile on my face. You do realize many small minded people assume DO's couldn't hack/gain acceptance to medical school correct? And I think we can all agree, DO school is filled with a vast majority of students who didnt make it into MD school (im not slamming DO's, I view it as on par with MD). Dental school will maybe have 1 per year per school. DO school has a significantly average weaker mcat score requirement. I would argue admissions to dental school is more difficult based on this. And finally for those with a burning desire to become a physician, you can go to school in the caribbean and come back to the US. There is no equivalent in dentistry.

So you now perpetuate such foolishness and assert a fictional hierarchy based on ...well Im not a psychologist, who knows. Your post reads like it was written by someone in high school, not a practicing resident.

 

[Ething]

Couldn't have said it better. I had a very honest DO student the other week tell me that he wished he had the grades for dental school.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you sir. Dental and med school both have ~40% acceptance rate, very similar average gpa/sci gpa (within .1 if i recall). I agree with another poster MCAT is more difficult though.

Then once youre in, your first two years of dental/med are nearly identical, the big difference being the dental students have to worry about lab in addition to the didactic. At many schools, youre in the exact same courses with eachother. Same teachers. Same grading. Same standards. The difference comes in your last two years, where dr's shadow in hospitals and dentists shadow in clinics. I believe this misconception in difficulty between the two schools by the general public is because physicians save lives and dentists do not, so the physician has to be smarter and the curriculum more difficult. Its understandable.

The fact you're a DO and making these assertions puts a small smile on my face. You do realize many small minded people assume DO's couldn't hack/gain acceptance to medical school correct? And I think we can all agree, DO school is filled with a vast majority of students who didnt make it into MD school (im not slamming DO's, I view it as on par with MD). Dental school will maybe have 1 per year per school. DO school has a significantly average weaker mcat score requirement. I would argue admissions to dental school is more difficult based on this. And finally for those with a burning desire to become a physician, you can go to school in the caribbean and come back to the US. There is no equivalent in dentistry.

So you now perpetuate such foolishness and assert a fictional hierarchy based on ...well Im not a psychologist, who knows. Your post reads like it was written by someone in high school, not a practicing resident.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I will have to respectfully disagree with you sir. Dental and med school both have ~40% acceptance rate, very similar average gpa/sci gpa (within .1 if i recall). I agree with another poster MCAT is more difficult though.

Then once youre in, your first two years of dental/med are nearly identical,

No they're not. Maybe the first year is the same. But the next 3 years are different. There would be (and is) no reason for a dentist to learn about cardiomyopathies or orthopedic issues, or GI issues or pretty much all of medicine. So ok, you guys learn physiology but all of the real stuff, the pathophysiology, you only learn the head and neck stuff... for good reason. If a dentist pulled out a stethoscope and tried to listen to me, I would just laugh.

the big difference being the dental students have to worry about lab in addition to the didactic. At many schools, youre in the exact same courses with eachother.

ok name these schools and show me that they take the exact same courses over the 2 years.

 

[Ething]

Harvard and Columbia to name two. I know that Nova mixes the dental with DOs as well...

And the first paragraph that you wrote is just so off that it is not even worth commenting on.

No they're not. Maybe the first year is the same. But the next 3 years are different. There would be (and is) no reason for a dentist to learn about cardiomyopathies or orthopedic issues, or GI issues or pretty much all of medicine. So ok, you guys learn physiology but all of the real stuff, the pathophysiology, you only learn the head and neck stuff... for good reason. If a dentist pulled out a stethoscope and tried to listen to me, I would just laugh.




ok name these schools and show me that they take the exact same courses over the 2 years.

 

[Lethstang]

Instate,

bro thats like arguing that the white house is white. Do a little research before arguing please, we try to keeps it reals around here. I do agree though, I wouldnt let a dentist listen to me with a stethoscope. I think youre confusing what was said with some sort of qualitative comparison that was never mentioned.

Some schools they exactly mirror, most schools they mostly mirror (the dentists will have some lab thrown in there, the medical students go farther down in gross). I can see youre setting up for the argument "haha I got you! theyre not exactly the same". Lol. Thankyou for weighing in captain semantica.

Are you seriously a medical resident? This isnt a shot against you but Im embarrassed there is such ignorance (referring to your first paragraph). And such hostility.

 

[thisisstupid]

You people are idiots. Doctors of dental medicine are just as important and needed as medical doctors. I am so sick of reading a bunch of idiotic, pretentious premed/predental posts. I never see this kind of prejudice outside of this forum, and the fact that you are so stupid to use this potential tool to try to make yourself feel better about not being loved as a child is pathetic. Dentists can't do what medical doctors do, but medical doctors can't do what dentists do either. I hope you pretentious pres are never successful, because that would be a seriously terrible thing for the world of medicine. YOU ARE NOT IMPORTANT!!!! STOP ACTING LIKE IT!!!!!

 

[fefzie]

Hey all....In the current financial crisis in the US....How much do periodontists make annually in lets say Illinois, Indiana and Michigan?

Input needed. Thanks!

 

[basupran]

If money is your goal, dentistry is the way to go. You will make more per hour, end of story. Lifestyle comparison... really?

Easier life + $ per hour, dentists win hands down.

 

[yappy]

One can work many more hours as a physician vs a dentist. Therefore, even though in some specialties the money/hr is less than dental, the nominal amount that most physicians make is more than that of your average dentist.

This is especially true once you factor in medical benefits, 401k, etc. The average dentist that owns all aspects of his dental practice earns 200k. MGMA states the average hospitalist makes ~200k. The difference being that most hospitalists positions I've seen cover mal practice, health ins, 401k, CE. This compensation is on the lower rung of MD specialties yet exceeds the average dentist owner. The dentist associate (non-owner) makes significantly less than the average IM physician.

It is true; however, that some dentists do exceeding well. Pick whichever you like most; because, they're very different but both do well.

If money is your goal, dentistry is the way to go. You will make more per hour, end of story. Lifestyle comparison... really?

Easier life + $ per hour, dentists win hands down.

 

[dds2007]

yeah, but medicine is outright cooler than dentistry. name a tv show about dentists.

Finding Nemo, Horrible Bosses, The Hangover

 

[michaelrack]

Finding Nemo, Horrible Bosses, The Hangover

The Hangover is definitely a cool Movie series

 

[Wesley Zaza]

any Canadians out there that know some hard facts on dentist salaries? for General and specialists?

I know a dentist who makes 700K a year. and an orthodontist that makes 400k. I've heard of orthos/specialists actually making a million, net. Is this unheard of?

Share your stories/and sources



+ in US...this just isn't possible is it?

 

[88845]

If money is your goal, dentistry is the way to go. You will make more per hour, end of story. Lifestyle comparison... really?

Easier life + $ per hour, dentists win hands down.

Agree on all points!

Can't beat the dental lifestyle, autonomy, and earnings per hour for relatively little stress in comparison to procedural medical specialties. That tuition though....

 

[notbobtrustme]

If money is your goal, dentistry is the way to go. You will make more per hour, end of story. Lifestyle comparison... really?

Easier life + $ per hour, dentists win hands down.

I'm not so sure about that anymore. Dental school tuition is as high or higher than medical school tuition and owning your own practice as a dentist is quite difficult nowadays because of saturation and the huge capital involved in setting up a practice. Corporate dentistry works you to the bone. Dentistry has many of the same obstacles as medicine in terms of getting established and drawing the boku bucks. However, once you do get established (5-10 years post DDS/DMD), then you are living the life. 9-3 4 days a week, 6 weeks vacation, >200K.

Medicine has a much higher floor and a much higher ceiling, but it also has much more stress and much more involvement. You really don't hear about dentists missing their kid's whatever or working 30 hours straight or going to the hospital at 2am.

 

[dlqo0oplb]

He said TV shows, not movies...LOL.

 

[angrybirds]

to whoever is still deciding

do medicine....imagine...reviving someone in cardiac arrest...saving someone who is having a heart attack... these are experiences that money can't buy...

plus you walk around the hospital like a boss afterwards...

 

[ToothbrushBuddy]

Make sure you like working with your hands before deciding to become a dentist!

 

[DrHrtSrgn]

Allow me to provide some perspective.

I am a DO cardiovascular surgeon 2 years out of residency/fellowship. I currently pull in over 700K working roughly 60 hrs/week with 1 weekend call/month with my private practice (partners pull in over 1mil/yr). This is not including any other investments (real estate, etc.) of mine. More importantly, I have time for my wife and kids. I perform literally life-saving procedures daily; you have no idea how incredibly rewarding it is to solving complex medical problems and performing open heart surgery, for instance, then meet the grateful patient and their loved ones postop. There is simply no comparison between what I do and what dentists do.

And fyi, there is no DO stigma in the real world. If you're good, you're good. Plus the MDs/DO residency/fellowship programs are all merging so we all get trained under the same standards. Food for thought. Cheers.

 

[DocJL]

Allow me to provide some perspective.

I am a DO cardiovascular surgeon 2 years out of residency/fellowship. I currently pull in over 700K working roughly 60 hrs/week with 1 weekend call/month with my private practice (partners pull in over 1mil/yr). This is not including any other investments (real estate, etc.) of mine. More importantly, I have time for my wife and kids. I perform literally life-saving procedures daily; you have no idea how incredibly rewarding it is to solving complex medical problems and performing open heart surgery, for instance, then meet the grateful patient and their loved ones postop. There is simply no comparison between what I do and what dentists do.

And fyi, there is no DO stigma in the real world. If you're good, you're good. Plus the MDs/DO residency/fellowship programs are all merging so we all get trained under the same standards. Food for thought. Cheers.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Based on what I've heard, dentists have the better lifestyle and can make around as much as FP; specialist doctors generally outearn dentists fairly easily, but work longer hours and work in a more stressful environment. You'll have a harder time in medicine if your primary motivation is money, however.

 

[TheEarDoc]

its easier to get into dental school and the life of a dentist does sound awesome. you certainly cant go wrong, but...
you have a much harder time once you are in school compared to being in med school. if you are looking for "lifestyle" careers like this, making over 200k with good hours means you are a dental specialist meaning you completed extra years of training, and were at the very top of your class, or went to harvard or columbia or a school where nearly all of the students specialize.

on the other hand in medical school you can basically walk into a 200k-300k job like anesthesiology or pain management or something like that. Low competition to get into these programs and high income.

so i guess in the end medical school assures you more of this kind of lifestyle if that is what you are looking for. Dental school will allow it but its not over when u walk in the door u have to earn it in class. And the money isnt an issue either way in my opinion

this used to be a debate to me too, i was going to go dental but got pulled off of the wailist at the last second to MD school and i am glad it happened.. im thinking about anesthesiology

Easier to get into dental school? You might check into that. I know plenty of folks who ended up going osteopathic programs or MD programs because they couldn't make the cut for dental school. Apples and oranges my friend. When it comes to medical schools it's like a produce market, whereas dental schools are like getting a cup of fresh fruit at a gas station. Your selection and chances will be severely limited.

Not knocking medical school or dentists, just if you want to get into medical school there is a little easier entry process.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Easier to get into dental school? You might check into that. I know plenty of folks who ended up going osteopathic programs or MD programs because they couldn't make the cut for dental school. Apples and oranges my friend. When it comes to medical schools it's like a produce market, whereas dental schools are like getting a cup of fresh fruit at a gas station. Your selection and chances will be severely limited.

Not knocking medical school or dentists, just if you want to get into medical school there is a little easier entry process.

Interestingly, at my school it's been somewhat the opposite - kids who couldn't make the cut for medicine doing dentistry. I wonder if the sheer number of variables makes it difficult to quantify? For example, perhaps the way some peoples' minds work might make them a better fit for medicine or dentistry, thus making one path or the other far easier for that particular person. I imagine it's not a simple dichotomy of "one harder than the other," but rather a mixture of factors that make the difficulty variable between the two professions.

 

[TheEarDoc]

Interestingly, at my school it's been somewhat the opposite - kids who couldn't make the cut for medicine doing dentistry. I wonder if the sheer number of variables makes it difficult to quantify? For example, perhaps the way some peoples' minds work might make them a better fit for medicine or dentistry, thus making one path or the other far easier for that particular person. I imagine it's not a simple dichotomy of "one harder than the other," but rather a mixture of factors that make the difficulty variable between the two professions.

Could be. I know my brother was going dental and took the DAT and the spatial reasoning test was difficult. It's basically a test where they show a shape with a shaded in area and then like 5-6 folds and you asked after 30 folds where the shaded area would be. I guess it has something to do with working at all the odd angles of teeth in the mouth when performing work?

I don't know if it's a difficulty thing or a lack of schools thing. I know that dental schools are small in number compared to MD and DO programs and they take around 50 students per year. The amount of applications they get per year numbers in the thousands for 50 slots. So unless you are minority status or some other distinguishing factor having a high DAT score and high GPA with tons of experience is most likely just going to put you in the middle of the pack of applicants.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Could be. I know my brother was going dental and took the DAT and the spatial reasoning test was difficult. It's basically a test where they show a shape with a shaded in area and then like 5-6 folds and you asked after 30 folds where the shaded area would be. I guess it has something to do with working at all the odd angles of teeth in the mouth when performing work?

I don't know if it's a difficulty thing or a lack of schools thing. I know that dental schools are small in number compared to MD and DO programs and they take around 50 students per year. The amount of applications they get per year numbers in the thousands for 50 slots. So unless you are minority status or some other distinguishing factor having a high DAT score and high GPA with tons of experience is most likely just going to put you in the middle of the pack of applicants.

I certainly do think the relatively fewer number of schools likely increases the competition within the profession. My friend told me the spatial reasoning part is a beast. Definitely there to see how well you can reason in space since that's pretty much the essence of what dentists do!

 

[jokersmiles]

I will have to respectfully disagree with you sir. Dental and med school both have ~40% acceptance rate, very similar average gpa/sci gpa (within .1 if i recall). I agree with another poster MCAT is more difficult though.

Then once youre in, your first two years of dental/med are nearly identical, the big difference being the dental students have to worry about lab in addition to the didactic. At many schools, youre in the exact same courses with eachother. Same teachers. Same grading. Same standards. The difference comes in your last two years, where dr's shadow in hospitals and dentists shadow in clinics. I believe this misconception in difficulty between the two schools by the general public is because physicians save lives and dentists do not, so the physician has to be smarter and the curriculum more difficult. Its understandable.

The fact you're a DO and making these assertions puts a small smile on my face. You do realize many small minded people assume DO's couldn't hack/gain acceptance to medical school correct? And I think we can all agree, DO school is filled with a vast majority of students who didnt make it into MD school (im not slamming DO's, I view it as on par with MD). Dental school will maybe have 1 per year per school. DO school has a significantly average weaker mcat score requirement. I would argue admissions to dental school is more difficult based on this. And finally for those with a burning desire to become a physician, you can go to school in the caribbean and come back to the US. There is no equivalent in dentistry.

So you now perpetuate such foolishness and assert a fictional hierarchy based on ...well Im not a psychologist, who knows. Your post reads like it was written by someone in high school, not a practicing resident.

"popping zits and zapping wrinkles" lel

 

[whosnisarg]

this used to be a debate to me too, i was going to go dental but got pulled off of the wailist at the last second to MD school and i am glad it happened.. im thinking about anesthesiology

Lol, I know I am 14 years late, but that means you took both MCAT and DAT? How did you study for both?!