Doctors who advise pre-med students not to go into medicine?

[towens5]

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I have shadowed physicians at 5 different hospitals in the last 4 years. I have met a lot of really great doctors that are enthusiastic mentors. However, it has been my experience that for every enthusiastic physician I shadow, there are THREE other physicians that work with him/her telling me to reconsider my career choice. About the 20th physician gave me the same speech yesterday. Anyone had similar experiences?

 

[Uegis]

I have shadowed physicians at 5 different hospitals in the last 4 years. I have met a lot of really great doctors that are enthusiastic mentors. However, it has been my experience that for every enthusiastic physician I shadow, there are THREE other physicians that work with him/her telling me to reconsider my career choice. About the 20th physician gave me the same speech yesterday. Anyone had similar experiences?

Yes plenty of medical students and physicians told me to reconsider. It was especially true of residents who work 80 hours /week, and only had "free" time to sleep and eat. If you do peds or internal medicine/family practice, you will have no life. But if you get into a comfortable residency, like rad onc or opth, then it isn't as horrible. I worked with a lot of medical students who were so stoked about graduating only to find out how crazy residency is.

I have had nurses who told me that they make as much as family practice physicians and advised me to go to nursing instead.

 

[Dr. Starostik]

My dad's a physician so I've met a lot of other physicians and they have said the same thing: go choose another career. If you ask them why, they'll say that the process of becoming a doctor is long and difficult and you might get discouraged if you are "caught up in the moment", but then they also say that it's very rewarding in the end. So never change careers just because it seems like you're getting discouraged, just think of why you want to become a doctor!

 

[sistahnik]

Isn't rad onc received through a fellowship program? I though you had to do like internal med and then do the rad onc fellowship. anyway, when Docs tell me to give it a second thought I always ask them to give me an explanation to support their advice. if it is sooo bad then why don't they find another career? I know they spent a lot of years doing what they do, but it's never to late to start over right? yea, they will never take their own advice, well maybe some of them will. 🙄 the docs that I work with have always given me positive feedback and are willing to write me LOR's so I guess the field isn't over just yet!! 😉

 

[Mithridates]

I have shadowed physicians at 5 different hospitals in the last 4 years. I have met a lot of really great doctors that are enthusiastic mentors. However, it has been my experience that for every enthusiastic physician I shadow, there are THREE other physicians that work with him/her telling me to reconsider my career choice. About the 20th physician gave me the same speech yesterday. Anyone had similar experiences?

A couple of years back I was considering medicine. One of the many reasons I decided not to pursue it was because my brother (an anesthesiology resident) and a lot of his medical school friends recommended against it. I'm currently first-year dental medicine. Doctors are seriously overworked, and underpaid for what they do - that sucks.

 

[Uegis]

Isn't rad onc received through a fellowship program? I though you had to do like internal med and then do the rad onc fellowship.

My roommate's brother is in the third year of his rad onc residency. It was a direct program, not through residency. It is a five year residency though.

 

[BlueMagpie]

I've had a LOT of physicians tell me not to go into medicine, especially female physicians who tell me that it is really hard to either meet a significant other or raise a family. But, I know that medicine is the only thing for me. My boss once told me that if someone telling you shouldn't go into medicine is enough to dissuade you, then you shouldn't be a doctor anyway.

 

[holyhess]

During my senior year in college I spent a lot of time talking to different doctors, the majority of them were generalists, and I got the same type of responses. I decided that if there were that many doctors out there telling me that there job and life sucked then what was so special about me that I wouldn't one day hate my job and basically my life. So I started working in a research lab, met a lot of doctors in research, and through them a lot of doctors in all different fields and I found out that a lot of the doctors who were happiest with there jobs had changed career paths a few times along the way. From this experience I think what I have learned is either doctors in medical school are trained to advise people that it sucks (another one of the hoops we have to jump through is remaining focused) or they are just lazy and aren't willing to take the time to find a career path that they enjoy. Of any educational choice you can make an M.D. probably gives you the greatest number of options, think about it, clinical practice (any number of specialties), research, education, law, I have even met doctors who do nothing but work as financial advisors in medically related stocks.

 

[snapdad]

I'm a nontraditional student who worked in a completely unrelated field before starting med school. I'm an M1 now, and I love it. While I was a premed, I had about a million people, doctors, nurses, various others, tell me that I should avoid medicine. When asked why, they either didn't answer, or they gave me some story about how doctors have it bad because of (insert various reasons here). Bottom line was, the reasons they gave me really weren't all that different from what you have to put up with in any other job to some degree or other. You think Dilbert likes his job? That stuff is just part of life, and I think that in many cases docs, who may not have been exposed to working in other professions, may not realize that. Do what makes you happy.

 

[i61164]

I have heard the same thing. Some doctors seem to be unhappy with the way Insurance companies are putting a squeeze on their income. Luckily, after working in a lucrative job that I didn't like for 6 years, I can safely say that I'm not in it for the money. Don't get me wrong, I will bitch and moan about having a low salary when I'm a doc, but as long as I enjoy my work I'll know that it's worth it. I met one doctor that encourged me to become a doctor. He said "somebody has to take care of us when we are old and sick."

 

[dmoney41]

I think it depends on specialty. Different specialties are almost like different careers there's such a huge disparity in everything from hours worked to work environment.

For whatever it's worth every derm I've ever talked to says they love medicine.

 

[Dr Sum Day]

Bottom line was, the reasons they gave me really weren't all that different from what you have to put up with in any other job to some degree or other. You think Dilbert likes his job? That stuff is just part of life, and I think that in many cases docs, who may not have been exposed to working in other professions, may not realize that. Do what makes you happy.

amen

 

[mwhou]

I'm a nontraditional student who worked in a completely unrelated field before starting med school. ... I had about a million people, doctors, nurses, various others, tell me that I should avoid medicine

I'm also a non-traditional & agree many of the complaints doctors mention about medicine are those that other professions have faced for years! The reality is medicine has historically been protected from the mundane, paper pushing (and ____ ) aspects of other jobs. It also seems to me that the docs who worked pre-HMO (80's) are much more vocal about the loss of independence, paperwork and other hassles. I'm not saying I think there aren't major problems that need addressing, or that I also won't complain about paperwork distracting me from patient care -- but I do believe a lot of this is due to many docs not having any other real world experience. The bubble of academia and medicine do not really reflect what life is really like in the working world!

There is a 'grass is greener component at work, just as many premeds idealize what being a doctor is like, many docs do/did idealize what other jobs are like. They probably don't realize how much needless, time wasting paperwork / politics / regulation / approvals / appeasement etc... are involved in even "glamorous" jobs.


The biggest test I have found is to ask what field they wish they had chosen instead of medicine. Not a one could.

 

[SmoothER]

I'm also a non-traditional & agree many of the complaints doctors mention about medicine are those that other professions have faced for years! The reality is medicine has historically been protected from the mundane, paper pushing (and ____ ) aspects of other jobs. It also seems to me that the docs who worked pre-HMO (80's) are much more vocal about the loss of independence, paperwork and other hassles. I'm not saying I think there aren't major problems that need addressing, or that I also won't complain about paperwork distracting me from patient care -- but I do believe a lot of this is due to many docs not having any other real world experience. The bubble of academia and medicine do not really reflect what life is really like in the working world!

There is a 'grass is greener component at work, just as many premeds idealize what being a doctor is like, many docs do/did idealize what other jobs are like. They probably don't realize how much needless, time wasting paperwork / politics / regulation / approvals / appeasement etc... are involved in even "glamorous" jobs.


The biggest test I have found is to ask what field they wish they had chosen instead of medicine. Not a one could.

I've also noticed this phenomenon regarding physicians discouraging potential medical school applicants from starting the process. Despite my roommate's high grades and high MCAT score, the physician he shadowed discouraged him citing the decrease in independence of physicians, increased malpractice insurance, increasd liability, lack of free time to spend with family and friends, paying back student loans, etc.

My explanation for this largely stems from the "God complex." I think these physicians generally think that THEY are equipped to deal with all of these financial and legal burdens that come along with being a medical professional. However, they don't feel that other people are quite as gifted as they are in terms of handling the stress, time management, etc. These physicians feel that they are more dedicated or more devoted to the field than others and that some people just cannot be as devoted to the field as they are. As a result, they'll discourage even the most promising medical school candidate from applying simply because they think he lacks the intangibles that said physician possesses. The general consensus seems to be, "I can handle the rigors of the medical profession, but you're too weak so you should just apply to business or law school and find some job where you're in a cozy office all day."

The litmus test for the "God complex" was already referenced above. When you ask these physicians what other careers they wish they would have pursued if they could turn back the hands of time, they simply have no answer for you. I've never heard a physician say, "Gee, I wish I would have just became an orthodontist instead." I've said this before and I'll say it again: Do NOT let ANYONE dissuade you from chasing your dreams. If you've known deep down in your gut that you want nothing else but to devote your life to medicine, then DO IT.

 

[Fusion]

I think some excellent points have been brought up here. I certainly agree that many physicians do not realize how good a job they have. Yes, they had to work hard and sacrifice to get to where they are, but now they are reaping the rewards by 1) working a career that actually has some meaning, and 2) having job security and a comfortable income to provide for their families and enjoy some of the finer things in life (travel, etc.). Many of the physicians who advise premeds to consider other careers are from older generations of doctors who were practicing during the "golden years" of medicine, the 1970s and 1980s. I doubt that a young physician a few years out of residency would be complaining much when their work hours are significantly decreased while their pay increases five-tenfold. Also, I doubt that the non-traditional med students who actually worked in other industries and/or lower-paying jobs will be complaining much, if ever, when they do become physicians - they will realize how good they have it. Being a doctor truly is a privilege in every sense of the word, and it is unfortunate that some physicians forget this.

 

[tupac_don]

I've also noticed this phenomenon regarding physicians discouraging potential medical school applicants from starting the process. Despite my roommate's high grades and high MCAT score, the physician he shadowed discouraged him citing the decrease in independence of physicians, increased malpractice insurance, increasd liability, lack of free time to spend with family and friends, paying back student loans, etc.

My explanation for this largely stems from the "God complex." I think these physicians generally think that THEY are equipped to deal with all of these financial and legal burdens that come along with being a medical professional. However, they don't feel that other people are quite as gifted as they are in terms of handling the stress, time management, etc. These physicians feel that they are more dedicated or more devoted to the field than others and that some people just cannot be as devoted to the field as they are. As a result, they'll discourage even the most promising medical school candidate from applying simply because they think he lacks the intangibles that said physician possesses. The general consensus seems to be, "I can handle the rigors of the medical profession, but you're too weak so you should just apply to business or law school and find some job where you're in a cozy office all day."

The litmus test for the "God complex" was already referenced above. When you ask these physicians what other careers they wish they would have pursued if they could turn back the hands of time, they simply have no answer for you. I've never heard a physician say, "Gee, I wish I would have just became an orthodontist instead." I've said this before and I'll say it again: Do NOT let ANYONE dissuade you from chasing your dreams. If you've known deep down in your gut that you want nothing else but to devote your life to medicine, then DO IT.

You are so mislead young buck. You have no idea what you are talking about. It is not that these doctors think very highly of themselves, or that they have a "God complex" as you said, but are simply realistic. Yea the enthusiasm you have is very refreshing. But know that medical training is very tough and very grueling. You really won't have much time for anything but studying medical school. You will have to put your wife, kids and other things in life on the backburner, for medicine. Although this also depends on speciality, it is a hard knock life anyhow. I am not saying you are not prepared for it. But trust me yea you are excited you wanna help and all that, but when you are sleep deprived, you ve been in the hospital for 30 hours, trust me its difficult to maintain a high level of enthusiasm. Listen to these people and take their advice. They after all are doctors, you are not, they have been through the training you have not. Unless you think it is a big conspiracy of what these people say, you should pay heed to their advice. You shouldn't be discouraged, you sound like someone who will go, no matter what if you are accepted, but I would love to chat with you in 6-7 years when you are during your residency, see what you think then. Also read some posts in the clinical rotations thread, read what some current residents think. Another thing having top grades and MCAT is important sure, but that does not mean you will be a successful doctor by any means. Not trying to discourage you, just put things in perspective, pay attention to these doctors cuz they are telling you how it is. Just my 2 cents. Good luck.

 

[benelswick]

You are so mislead young buck. You have no idea what you are talking about. It is not that these doctors think very highly of themselves, or that they have a "God complex" as you said, but are simply realistic. Yea the enthusiasm you have is very refreshing. But know that medical training is very tough and very grueling. You really won't have much time for anything but studying medical school. You will have to put your wife, kids and other things in life on the backburner, for medicine. Although this also depends on speciality, it is a hard knock life anyhow. I am not saying you are not prepared for it. But trust me yea you are excited you wanna help and all that, but when you are sleep deprived, you ve been in the hospital for 30 hours, trust me its difficult to maintain a high level of enthusiasm. Listen to these people and take their advice. They after all are doctors, you are not, they have been through the training you have not. Unless you think it is a big conspiracy of what these people say, you should pay heed to their advice. You shouldn't be discouraged, you sound like someone who will go, no matter what if you are accepted, but I would love to chat with you in 6-7 years when you are during your residency, see what you think then. Also read some posts in the clinical rotations thread, read what some current residents think. Another thing having top grades and MCAT is important sure, but that does not mean you will be a successful doctor by any means. Not trying to discourage you, just put things in perspective, pay attention to these doctors cuz they are telling you how it is. Just my 2 cents. Good luck.

I hear what your saying but frankly I still side with the other notradional people on this thread. Once you've washed dishes, dug ditches, and heard the phrase "if you fall boy, you're fired before you hit the ground," not too much will dissuade you from something you want to do and are paying your dues to get there. Not even people who are already at where you're trying to get. I look at the doctors my age who are practicing and respect the job and the work they do, but if one of them who I know went right from college into med school complained and tried to discourage me I wouldn't even think twice about what they were saying. As hard work is way of life for 99.9 % of the world and if they want to retire, fine that's one more job opening.--Ben

 

[oldbearprofessor]

This is a great thread for all of the different perspectives it puts together. As someone who started med school while Mr. Carter was president, I can add my personal perspective on why many docs my generation might respond as negatively as they do. When we were in school and residency, the expectation was for long hours but lots of respect, stable finances, and most of all, autonomy (perhaps prestige was a part of it for many). Now, doctors who trained with me may feel like they are no longer getting what they bargained for - still the long hours (and we really did 110 hr/week in residency) in training and in practice, but respect, finances, autonomy, etc have become lower in many fields. Of these, I think the sense of spending too much time filling out paperwork, battling insurance companies, lawyers and the government is wearying for folks 20 plus years into practice.

From my perspective, medicine remains a great career and the downside greatly exceeds the upside. Realistic understanding of the field, a willingness to adapt to new rules and realities and trying to develop a varied practice and lifestyle help. For me, academic medicine, with >60% time research is a big part of dealing with the changed realities of clinical medicine, for others, the changes are too much and we are losing outstanding doctors because of it.

Regards

"oldbearprofessor"