Does a terminal Master's hurt you when applying to a PhD program?

[falseimitation]

I checked the previous topics to make sure I wasn't re-posting something that had already been talked about.

I am currently in a Clinical MA program after switching from the general MA program in the school. The problem is that when I was talking to my professor about advice from going to a terminal degree to applying for a PhD, she had told me that it could possibly hurt my chances of getting into a PhD program. I'm doing research in conjunction with doing the Clinical classes so I'm still pursuing the research route. I guess my question is, is this true? She said that the problem stands in where you learn how to do things. When you apply, it would be better if you don't have to relearn everything because you might have picked up bad habits at the previous school.

If getting my terminal masters will hinder me, I will switch back to the general MA, graduate a year earlier, and prepare my applications. If it won't hurt me, I'll keep going the route I'm going and apply in two years. I really want to end up in a position where I can do research in the clinical field, so I definitely want the PhD route. What are other's experience with this? Has getting a terminal degree hindered someone before into getting into a PhD program?

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[GiantSteps]

Isn't any MA program terminal? Terminal means that one is in a program for a specific degree and when one earns that degree it is over. An MA acquired while getting a Ph.D. is not terminal because one is in a program to get a Ph.D. which is the terminal degree.

In general, people do get accepted from terminal MA programs into clinical programs (as is evidenced by many of the posts on SDN) but an MA is not required to get accepted into a Ph.D. program. Some people have success getting into a Ph.D. program at the school where they are getting their MA since they are making connections right there.

Supposedly, some schools limit the number of students they accept who already have an MA.

I checked the previous topics to make sure I wasn't re-posting something that had already been talked about.

I am currently in a Clinical MA program after switching from the general MA program in the school. The problem is that when I was talking to my professor about advice from going to a terminal degree to applying for a PhD, she had told me that it could possibly hurt my chances of getting into a PhD program. I'm doing research in conjunction with doing the Clinical classes so I'm still pursuing the research route. I guess my question is, is this true? She said that the problem stands in where you learn how to do things. When you apply, it would be better if you don't have to relearn everything because you might have picked up bad habits at the previous school.

If getting my terminal masters will hinder me, I will switch back to the general MA, graduate a year earlier, and prepare my applications. If it won't hurt me, I'll keep going the route I'm going and apply in two years. I really want to end up in a position where I can do research in the clinical field, so I definitely want the PhD route. What are other's experience with this? Has getting a terminal degree hindered someone before into getting into a PhD program?

 

[falseimitation]

Isn't any MA program terminal? Terminal means that one is in a program for a specific degree and when one earns that degree it is over. An MA acquired while getting a Ph.D. is not terminal because one is in a program to get a Ph.D. which is the terminal degree.

There are actually non-terminal MA programs not en route to a doctoral degree that are kind of meant to boost you into a PhD program, be it Social, Clinical, etc (I think William and Mary has a program like this).

I am wondering the rates of terminal degree MA as opposed to non-terminal degree MA of acceptance into PhD programs.

 

[cara susanna]

I actually got rejected from a program because I didn't have a Masters, whereas everyone else did.

 

[falseimitation]

Did the people you were applying with have a terminal degree or a non-terminal degree? What kind of program were you applying too?

Sorry, full of questions.

 

[cara susanna]

Terminal degree, and this was a Clinical Psych PhD program. Fully funded and everything.

They transferred my app to their Masters program and basically told me "You're a very good candidate, it's just this year everyone else has a Masters and you don't. Last year we barely had any Masters people."

Yeah, such is my life. e_e

 

[smilie2131]

Cara Susanna- do you mind saying which program this is?

 

[smilie2131]

Did the people you were applying with have a terminal degree or a non-terminal degree? What kind of program were you applying too?

Sorry, full of questions.

falseimitation- it depends on what types of programs you're applying to. For example, many counseling psych. PhD programs prefer and even require a master's degree where you've had clinical experience. One example I can think of off the top of my head is the University of Houston. As for clinical programs I'm not as sure. I know people who have gottent their MFT, and gotten their clinical PhD from UCSB. I would get the book "insiders guide to programs in clinical and counseling psychology." in there it states the acceptance rates of students with BAs and MAs. That will give you an idea of the programs' view towards accepting those with MAs. If you're really concerned about having a terminal clinical psyc masters as opposed to a nonterminal MA, you could directly contact the DCTs of specific PhD programs you're interested in applying. Just my 2 cents.

 

[cara susanna]

It was Eastern Michigan University

 

[GiantSteps]

Would someone please clarify for me what a non-terminal MA degree is which is not part of, en route, to a Ph.D. degree. If one is accepted to a program it is for a specific degree. Once one earns a degree, the program ends and that makes it terminal. Unless, of course, someone switches into a different program while one is getting a degree and opts to either give-up the original degree in favor of another or earn it en-route to another degree. Otherwise, a non-terminal degree seems to be a non-degree program. Logically speaking, if one is in a program, either one gets the degree or does not.

 

[stooge]

1

 

[hermionephd]

When I was emailing professors a few months ago I included a question about whether or not they would accept somebody with a master's into their lab (because I will have a master's in may, of course). Most said "almost never" BUT I still got 6 interviews out of 11 applications. The master's only seems to hurt you if you think you're going to get your PhD in a shorter amount of time or will be exempt from doing another thesis or whatever. I made it clear that I was willing to start over and that being in a master's program simply allowed me to focus my goals and experience ACTUAL clinical work (i.e., seeing clients for assessment and therapy). In the end, I think I ended up looking more mature than your average not-even-quite-finished-with-undergrad applicant (as did one of my friends who is in a similar situation).

 

[OlliePsych]

I think that one advantage of going in with a master's degree is that most of the time your thesis transfers as long as it is empirical. This being said, if you are going into a research oriented program, it can open up time for you to work on other projects. Advisors may see this as a big plus!

 

[Ollie123]

I think what it all boils down to is that this is probably another one of those "It depends" answers that doesn't really help

It will help in some schools and hurt at others. It depends on you, it depends on your advisor, it depends on your master's institution, it depends on what kind of master's it was, etc.

 

[KillerDiller]

For the OP, I think the more relevant question in your situation is whether a clinical MA is going to help you over an MA in general psych. From what I have heard and experienced, it probably won't. Ph.D programs want to see research experience and don't tend to care too much about clinical experience. If you obtain a degree that puts you on track to be licensed as a Masters level clinician, you may get a lot of questions about why you need to go back for your doctorate.

That being said, if you feel you want a clinical MA as a back-up option or are attached to it for other reasons, it's probably not really going to hurt your application. It's just a matter of whether you want to spend the extra time and money on the clinical portion of the degree.

 

[TuTuPsychL]

I am currently in a terminal Master's degree program and was accepted into two PsyD programs this year. The good thing about the terminal Master's is that if you don't initially get into a doc program after Master's (we all know it's been known to happen) at least you can sit for licensure and start working. That was definitely a plus for me.

While I know that a Master's degree isn't necessarily a requirement for getting in, I definitely think it helped me on my interviews as I felt more confident (I applied for docs straight out of undergraduate as well) and was already able to talk about my experience in graduate school.

 

[kapinkkidowski]

I don't think having an MA can in any way hurt your application. I also think it doesn't neccessarily help, it all depends on whether or not getting that Master's gave you more experience that makes your app stronger (I am nearly done with a terminal MA in clinical psych and I got interviews at all but 2 of the schools to which i applied for the Ph.D.). I highly doubt any program will look at your CV and see a Master's and say "oh no, that's a bad thing"...

 

[dd123]

Giansteps wrote: Would someone please clarify for me what a non-terminal MA degree is which is not part of, en route, to a Ph.D. degree. If one is accepted to a program it is for a specific degree. Once one earns a degree, the program ends and that makes it terminal. Unless, of course, someone switches into a different program while one is getting a degree and opts to either give-up the original degree in favor of another or earn it en-route to another degree. Otherwise, a non-terminal degree seems to be a non-degree program. Logically speaking, if one is in a program, either one gets the degree or does not.

GS, in some programs you are granted a MA after a year or two en route to you Phd. in such a case, it's a phd program, and not a terminal MA program. Sometimes called a 'integrated MA-PhD' program.

 

[amphigory]

I've been working to raise my GPA by taking more undergraduate courses (post bacc) in psychology, but I know the odds of getting in to a PhD program are going to be against me. So my backup if I don't get in on the first round is a Masters Degree - but I waffle. In my city I could do a Clinical MA that is designed to improve stats for PhD apps, but has no real usefulness -- it might raise my RA salary a bit, but nothing else. It would not specifically increase my chances for PhD admission in the same school -- although I would make good contacts. On the other hand, an MSW, if the PhD route was a total bust, at least I could practice and achieve 50% of my goal in life (ideally I would like to be a researcher who maintains some kind of clinical practice).

I know the best thing is to do the MA and keep trying for PhD admission, but I'm not getting any younger and the thought of all that school and expense for a relatively useless degree is depressing. But would an MSW improve an application where the main weakness is GPA?

 

[wkupmaggie]

When I was emailing professors a few months ago I included a question about whether or not they would accept somebody with a master's into their lab (because I will have a master's in may, of course). Most said "almost never" BUT I still got 6 interviews out of 11 applications. The master's only seems to hurt you if you think you're going to get your PhD in a shorter amount of time or will be exempt from doing another thesis or whatever. I made it clear that I was willing to start over and that being in a master's program simply allowed me to focus my goals and experience ACTUAL clinical work (i.e., seeing clients for assessment and therapy). In the end, I think I ended up looking more mature than your average not-even-quite-finished-with-undergrad applicant (as did one of my friends who is in a similar situation).

hermionephd I totally second this. During this interview round I felt way more prepared post-Master's degree than the one interview I got with my BA (which ended in rejection). Plus the big difference is this time I got 2 acceptances! During my Clinical Master's program I wondered if it would matter when it came to future PhD apps, and now I think if you work hard and really use your degree to get some good experience it DEFINITELY helps. GOOD LUCK!

 

[runningrage]

I don't think having an MA can in any way hurt your application. I also think it doesn't neccessarily help, it all depends on whether or not getting that Master's gave you more experience that makes your app stronger

I agree. I have a terminal Master's degree in Clinical Psychology and do not think that this hampered my applications in any way... in fact, in my case, my MA might have helped my applications as my undergraduate grades were nothing to shout about. All the programs I interviewed with were pleased with my Master's thesis and most were willing to accept my thesis so I will not have to do another one during my PhD. So, from personal experience, I do not think having an MA would hurt your application in any way, and may in fact help make you a stronger applicant.