Does COVID make this cycle more or less competitive?

[acvdental937]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Just curious what everyone's opinion is

 

[MandalorianDMD]

To apply this cycle you would have to have prepared for this years ago with pre-requisites and the DAT and volunteering and research and extra curricular and doing things to get good letters of rec. COVID impact really started in the USA in March. There’s no way someone got all that together a few months ago to toss their hat in the ring and increase competition.

Therefore, no. It’s just as competitive as it always has been.

I’m really curious to see the data on acceptances of those who chose to P/F their classes and those who kept it graded.

 

[MandalorianDMD]

I’ll also add that in the years to come you’ll see it increase because of COVID. You have small businesses permanently closing but small businesses like dentistry have opened up to even greater demand and profits. You’ll see moms and dads everywhere start pushing their kids towards dentistry and less towards other fields (especially medicine with how admins in hospitals have been treating their physicians and nurses poorly).

 

[PerioDont]

I’ll also add that in the years to come you’ll see it increase because of COVID. You have small businesses permanently closing but small businesses like dentistry have opened up to even greater demand and profits. You’ll see moms and dads everywhere start pushing their kids towards dentistry and less towards other fields (especially medicine with how admins in hospitals have been treating their physicians and nurses poorly).

Do you think that's really true? outside of dental families, I have rarely if ever seen people in my (brown people) community encourage people to be dentists. Medicine is always viewed as superior.

Overall I agree with you though, can be much more difficult as a physician dealing with admin stuff. ofc we have our own issues with dental insurance, but it is still definitely possible to be a successful private practice owning dentist rn.

 

[MandalorianDMD]

Do you think that's really true? outside of dental families, I have rarely if ever seen people in my (brown people) community encourage people to be dentists. Medicine is always viewed as superior.

Overall I agree with you though, can be much more difficult as a physician dealing with admin stuff. ofc we have our own issues with dental insurance, but it is still definitely possible to be a successful private practice owning dentist rn.

How old are your parents? They are from a different generation. My parents viewed physicians and the MD as the ultimate #1 degree until they really researched and learned more about the realities of medicine versus dentistry. I would say 4 out of 5 physicians don’t even recommend their path. Schooling is hard and life after is very hard unless you get one of the sought after specialities, which is even harder to get. That’s after residency and fellowship.

 

[MandalorianDMD]

Er I’m not really sure about greater demand and profit, dentistry was hit extremely hard by COVID. Even now most practices aren’t earning as much as they were pre-COVID because of increased PPE costs and social distancing guidelines meaning less people in your waiting rooms.

Are you speaking from feelings or from talking to people who own private practices? If I went off feelings I would agree. It seems logical and intuitive. However, majority of the dentists I talk to have reported the opposite. Biggest complaint is the heat in the PPE. All PPE costs are billable. Even salons are adding PPE costs to clients. Why wouldn’t a dentist?

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

I would guess the competitiveness would be the same. Probably the same number of people are applying, since most knew by march if they were going to apply or not this cycle. There will be people applying to more schools due to low cost of virtual interviews, but it’s not like the schools will take more interviews than normal this year. And schools mostly select their candidates regionally anyway. Also, many are missing parts of their app, such as DAT scores, but most schools will probably simply ignore this criteria when extending interviews then come to a decision on these candidates once they receive their scores. So it will be more work for admissions, but probably the same outcomes in the end.

 

[MandalorianDMD]

I mean this is literally what owners have complained about, and I still don’t see how they would be earning more than ever right now. Rising PPE costs are increased overhead costs and it’s not as easy as just billing the patient more because it depends on their insurance plan. Dentistry is pretty economy dependent and right now most people would prefer to skip the dentist for as long as they can, or just ask to pull the tooth instead of saving it for additional costs.

There’s a billing code for PPE. If you don’t accept insurance and you are a FFS practice, then you add it to their cost. Most patients understand these are temporary costs. It’s not complicated.

Also, many patients I’ve seen don’t want to lose their teeth as much as they don’t want to lose any other part of their body.

As far as how they can be earning more, people have more free time now. It’s not always a money issue, some people were too busy and kept putting it off. That truth goes for the gym, annual check-ups at the physician, etc.

 

[PerioDont]

How old are your parents? They are from a different generation. My parents viewed physicians and the MD as the ultimate #1 degree until they really researched and learned more about the realities of medicine versus dentistry. I would say 4 out of 5 physicians don’t even recommend their path. Schooling is hard and life after is very hard unless you get one of the sought after specialities, which is even harder to get. That’s after residency and fellowship.

My father is an MD nephrologist. He is still trying to convince me to go to med school even as I'm in D4 lol.

of the MDs I know, most did recommend their path to me. Most dentists actually did NOT recommend I become a dentist stating debt was too high, career is saturated with corps etc.

 

[MandalorianDMD]

My father is an MD nephrologist. He is still trying to convince me to go to med school even as I'm in D4 lol.

of the MDs I know, most did recommend their path to me. Most dentists actually did NOT recommend I become a dentist stating debt was too high, career is saturated with corps etc.

I guess that’s life. We are all surrounded by different experiences. One person, like me, sees nothing but MDs telling people to avoid medical school and someone like you the total opposite.

You could try oral surgery if you think dentistry isn’t good anymore. One of my friends graduated three years ago and just opened their second practice (General Dentist).

There is success in every field no matter what, if you want it and enjoy it. I definitely see a lot of people when they finish didactics that they don’t enjoy interacting with patients or dentistry itself. They just liked studying a lot even though they complain about that too.

 

[flash9625]

I can't see schools being able to accurately assess the ability of rising seniors (who took spring 2020 and possibly fall 2020 classes w/ a P/F grading system) in the same way they assess candidates with all completed courses for a letter grade. I think it will be similar numbers, but an edge will be given to candidates who have all science pre-reqs for a letter grade and who have taken the DAT.

 

[dPseh]

There’s a billing code for PPE. If you don’t accept insurance and you are a FFS practice, then you add it to their cost. Most patients understand these are temporary costs. It’s not complicated.

Also, many patients I’ve seen don’t want to lose their teeth as much as they don’t want to lose any other part of their body.

As far as how they can be earning more, people have more free time now. It’s not always a money issue, some people were too busy and kept putting it off. That truth goes for the gym, annual check-ups at the physician, etc.

Billing for PPE is actually more complicated than just charging insurance or billing the patient directly. Depends on the state, the contract you have with the carrier, etc. The reimbursement rates aren’t too high either. I’ve seen $7 to $15 per encounter. Sounds like a lot, but coupled with increase in overhead plus lower number of patient encounters, it doesn’t add up to much.

Some practices are doing better than others, but I think it’s a struggle overall. People losing jobs means loss of insurance, meaning less likely to come in for routine work. People concerned about virus spread, less likely to come in. Those that have been furloughed or have had their wages cut, less likely to come in.
It‘s not always about having free time. If they have more free time now, it’s probably because they’re working less. I.e Less income leading to the aforementioned scenarios.

 

[MandalorianDMD]

I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that dentists are making more right now, or that there’s a higher demand, when it’s very clearly the opposite. A lot of patients are afraid to go to the dentist because of COVID concerns, millions have lost their health/dental insurance and have a less stable income (or no income at all), and dentistry to many is seen as a luxury, not a necessity. Even dental schools are having trouble bringing patients in because many patients are cancelling due to COVID, and because they have to limit the capacity to 50% to maintain social distancing.
Due to COVID fears, many Americans have even pushed back or skipped regular physician check-ups or treatment for important conditions they may have, so I’m not sure why you think anyone would be rushing to go to the dentist, which to many is considered non-essential. And I say this as an incoming D1– the future of dentistry has never been less clear, and you seem to be really mislead by the pre-dental rose colored classes. Dentistry was just as affected as every other profession by COVID.

Your opinion isn’t fact and you’re an incoming D1; no offense but you don’t know anything or have any experience what clinic is looking like right now and if patients are or are not coming. I had a good laugh that you tried to attack me as some naive pre-dent taking “rose colored classes”. Next time ask the person what is their background. Then you’ll be more successful in your verbal assaults.

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

Carefully now, lest retaliation come to you too haha.

 

[axiumgod]

I have a feeling someone else in this thread is about to have their membership revoked too

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

I have a feeling someone else in this thread is about to have their membership revoked too

Shady Ragnar probably is Mandalorian anyways. Fight the power man! Haha.

 

[VladiAVB]

I can't see schools being able to accurately assess the ability of rising seniors (who took spring 2020 and possibly fall 2020 classes w/ a P/F grading system) in the same way they assess candidates with all completed courses for a letter grade. I think it will be similar numbers, but an edge will be given to candidates who have all science pre-reqs for a letter grade and who have taken the DAT.

I’ve spoken to a few admissions at different schools and all of them have said that a letter grade will be viewed more favorably than a p/f

 

[gyngyn]

I have a feeling someone else in this thread is about to have their membership revoked too

Nope, the same one.