Does it seem that most letters of recommendation submitted are fairly strong?

[Ihave Nonamè]

I think we're all anxious to an extent about the quality of LoRs we submit. I'm told by professors (reddit of course) that if a professor has agreed to write a letter, that they intend to write a strong letter, that they feel they can write a strong letter and that they would decline otherwise.

Does it seem that this is actually the case? Does anyone here suspect they submitted a weak letter from a professor or do any adcoms here regularly read weak and unenthusiastic letters?

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[viralhiker]

I just assume that having a “strong” letter of recommendation or positive interviewer report is the rule, not the exception. It’s probably a tough job for adcoms to separate the truly special recommendations from the typical “only great” ones.

 

[Goro]

I think we're all anxious to an extent about the quality of LoRs we submit. I'm told by professors (reddit of course) that if a professor has agreed to write a letter, that they intend to write a strong letter, that they feel they can write a strong letter and that they would decline otherwise.

Does it seem that this is actually the case? Does anyone here suspect they submitted a weak letter from a professor or do any adcoms here regularly read weak and unenthusiastic letters?

After having read them for 20+ years, I can tell you that some 5% are "meh to bad (the latter being very rare); 90% are strong but all alike ("Noname is an excellent student, scored a 92% in the class with put him/her in the top 10%, always at in front of the class, and participated in discussions and will make a good doctor").

But some 5% are super strong...they make us comment "great LORs" in our evaluations)

Another way of looking at this is of the 90% pool I discuss above, there might be one great LOR. In the top 5% pool, al of the LORs are great

 

[Ihave Nonamè]

After having read them for 20+ years, I can tell you that some 5% are "meh to bad (the latter being very rare); 90% are strong but all alike ("Noname is an excellent student, scored a 92% in the class with put him/her in the top 10%, always at in front of the class, and participated in discussions and will make a good doctor").

But some 5% are super strong...they make us comment "great LORs" in our evaluations)

Another way of looking at this is of the 90% pool I discuss above, there might be one great LOR. In the top 5% pool, al of the LORs are great

I take it the 5% super strong letters are those that discuss the student's personality/character?

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I take it the 5% super strong letters are those that discuss the student's personality/character?

Not necessarily, could be exceptional research or leadership skills.

 

[Goro]

I take it the 5% super strong letters are those that discuss the student's personality/character?

More than than. They thorough and ultra positive letters of evaluation, with examples

 

[LizzyM]

Some schools in the committee letter will categorize students on one or more metrics (research, altruism, clinical experience, academic performance) and some will even provide a breakdown of what proportion of applicants are in each category and at least one will tell you what proportion of applicants in the last class from each category ended up matriculating to med school. And the categories are funny for the uninitiated. You think strong is "strong" until you find out that it is third tier behind "very strong" and "exceptionally strong".

 

[Ihave Nonamè]

Some schools in the committee letter will categorize students on one or more metrics (research, altruism, clinical experience, academic performance) and some will even provide a breakdown of what proportion of applicants are in each category and at least one will tell you what proportion of applicants in the last class from each category ended up matriculating to med school. And the categories are funny for the uninitiated. You think strong is "strong" until you find out that it is third tier behind "very strong" and "exceptionally strong".

I suppose we should all begin asking for "exceptionally strong" letters of evaluation

 

[Ihave Nonamè]

I strongly concur with my esteemed colleague from west of St. Louis

The vast majority of LORs are strong/positive. However, the top/outstanding letters are:
1) not simply letters of recommendation but well written letters of evaluation (which is the official name)
2) they show evidence of both time and depth of relationship for the writer and the applicant
3) the writer evaluates based in their own experience and interaction of the applicant
4) they discuss the traits, characteristics and attributes of the applicant
5) they give examples of the above
6) they place the student/activities in context compared to other students they have taught, etc

When you request a letter you should
1) outline your history, interactions, relationship with writer
2) provide suggestions of what characteristics, traits, attributes you think your work/interactions demonstrate about yourself
3) Always attach and link (yes do both) the AAMC writers guide; they will appreciate having guide laid out them
4) Ask early enough and followup to make sure you get the letter
5) Letters are processed completely independently from AMCAS application review and are not in any way needed for verification
6) Letters get assigned by you per school. Make sure you have read the specific letter requirements for each school you apply for minimum and maximum number and letters and who they must be from.
7) Committee letter requirements are set by the Undergraduate school and do not, repeat, do not need to adhere (mostly) to the individual letter requirements.
8) personally, I am not a fan of a professor requiring you submitting personal statement or MCAT score to them. Frankly, them repeating information weakens the letter as far as I am concerned

https://www.aamc.org/system/files?file=2019-09/lettersguidelinesbrochure.pdf

A nice list. I believe I went about the request correctly and did include the guide. I wish there were a polite/suitable way to pass along a few of these tips "use examples, be descriptive, write about your own experience, etc" but much of this unfortunately is out of my control.

Do adcoms research the letter writer as well to get a sense of their qualifications?

 

[Goro]

A nice list. I believe I went about the request correctly and did include the guide. I wish there were a polite/suitable way to pass along a few of these tips "use examples, be descriptive, write about your own experience, etc" but much of this unfortunately is out of my control.

Do adcoms research the letter writer as well to get a sense of their qualifications?

Nope.

 

[Ihave Nonamè]

Nope.

Well I imagine mine will likely fit into the 90%. I've had doubts but I suppose it is reassuring to hear that "weak" letters are rare. Although, if all are nearly the same, it would seem that letters have very little influence on the ultimate admissions decision.

 

[Goro]

Well I imagine mine will likely fit into the 90%. I've had doubts but I suppose it is reassuring to hear that "weak" letters are rare. Although, if all are nearly the same, it would seem that letters have very little influence on the ultimate admissions decision.

Oh, but they do!

1) You have to have them, period.
2) They have to at least pass a bar. Ie, that they tell us your either not a bad student or a psychopath

 

[vonpremed2019]

Oh, but they do!

1) You have to have them, period.
2) They have to at least pass a bar. Ie, that they tell us your either not a bad student or a psychopath

does it matter if the letter writer has some "juice" so to speak? like what if the letter writer is a former adcom volunteer interviewer at the school?

 

[Goro]

does it matter if the letter writer has some "juice" so to speak? like what if the letter writer is a former adcom volunteer interviewer at the school?

Being in family does seem to help..ie, LOR from one of our alums, for example.

 

[Med Ed]

I think we're all anxious to an extent about the quality of LoRs we submit. I'm told by professors (reddit of course) that if a professor has agreed to write a letter, that they intend to write a strong letter, that they feel they can write a strong letter and that they would decline otherwise.

Does it seem that this is actually the case? Does anyone here suspect they submitted a weak letter from a professor or do any adcoms here regularly read weak and unenthusiastic letters?

I evaluate letters on two scales (or domains, if you will). The first is how positive the writer is about the applicant. The second is how much detail the writer uses, which is usually a function of how strong the relationship is. Before I started doing this almost all the letters I read looked interchangeable. Now I see much greater diversity.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Well I imagine mine will likely fit into the 90%. I've had doubts but I suppose it is reassuring to hear that "weak" letters are rare. Although, if all are nearly the same, it would seem that letters have very little influence on the ultimate admissions decision.

True probably for 99% of applicants. Very few get extremely strong letters and that could be the difference for those who don't have gap years or thousands of hours of service.

 

[Ihave Nonamè]

There is a polite suitable way: write a professional letter asking as such. I never understand why students seem intimidated when asking for a letter nor why they are shy when selling themselves

And adcoms do not research the writer. A proper letter should always start with that info in the first paragraph and most writers know this as they will include their title/position, usually an indication of how long they have taught/how many students they have taught, writing on behalf of applicant and give a very strong recommendation/one of the best students I have seen opening

I fear that many writers fail to describe specific examples for their claims (though I admittedly don't read many of these). However, I think that attempting to direct their writing process may come off as pretentious.

I did sell myself a little in the request.

 

[Ihave Nonamè]

You are not directing their writing process. Students seem to be overly awed by professors when they are mostly quite happy to make this process easier, particularly when trying to remember one student of several hundred that they may see over a few years, Simply saying

As may recall I was in your class. lab, etc in term/year
You may remember that I earned an A, came to office hours,
We worked on project ABC where I learned XYZ under your guidance
I believe my work showed intellectual curiosity, team work etc.
Thank you for your strong support in my efforts to attend medical school

? I was referring to the telling them to write a detailed letter full of examples. This would be a little pretentious I believe.

 

[LizzyM]

Doesn't AAMC has a handout you can give to letter writers?? I seem to recall seeing it some years ago. Google it and see if it appears.

 

[Ihave Nonamè]

Nothing absolutely wrong with providing examples.

Ahh you're saying the "I went to all office hours with questions, was very active on your discussion boards, greatly enjoyed interacting with you, earned an A, am passionate about the course material, use what I learned from you in my current lab, etc etc" that I sent in the email were adequate examples. I see.

I suppose I should have written more in that case.