Does MRCS (UK) or a MPH help improve chances for a Surgical Residency? for IMGs?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Surgical FMG

Full Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
67
Reaction score
0
Hi

I am hoping to do my surgical residency in the USA sometime after i graduate. So far from what I have read in the forum, it seems as if the following are the 3 most important factors in securing a Surgical Residency in USA:

  1. USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 CK scores
  2. Letter of recommendations from preferably US-based clinicians or clinicians with FACS
  3. US Clinical Experience (e.g. visiting elective as a student on a surgical service in a USA hospital)
A few other options i am considering to boost my chances:

  1. Doing the Uni of Washington Subinternship certificate programme designed for international medical graduates (http://depts.washington.edu/uwsurgap/international.htm) - downside costs over USD 1000, last 8 weeks.
  2. Doing the MRCS in my PGY 2 and 3. At least parts 1 and 2 first
  3. Pursuing a MPH in the US, e.g. John Hopkins. (personal interest)
Was just wondering if any of the above options will significantly boost one's chances to match a surgical residency. E.g. going through the trouble to take GRE, and apply for a MPH programme, and doing it.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Short answer?
The U-W program would help if that gets you a letter from someone that can vouch for your ability to adapt to our system. Based on where you are located, I'm guessing language won't be a problem.

The MPH, eh... a minor plus, but not going to change my mind significantly one way or another unless you can tell me a great story about how it ties into your ultimate career plan.

MRCS: Had to check it up to see what it entailed. If I had to check it up, the answer is, if won't influence most people. I'll assume if you get good board scores that you can pass tests until proven otherwise. Another test isn't going to help me decide if you will make a good intern/resident
 
Short answer?
The U-W program would help if that gets you a letter from someone that can vouch for your ability to adapt to our system. Based on where you are located, I'm guessing language won't be a problem.

The MPH, eh... a minor plus, but not going to change my mind significantly one way or another unless you can tell me a great story about how it ties into your ultimate career plan.

MRCS: Had to check it up to see what it entailed. If I had to check it up, the answer is, if won't influence most people. I'll assume if you get good board scores that you can pass tests until proven otherwise. Another test isn't going to help me decide if you will make a good intern/resident

Alright, that's very helpful. thank you surg.

the Membership to the Royal College of Surgeons seems like the UK version of ABSITE. wouldn't that indicate a certain level of surgical knowledge attained?


I am interested in pursuing the MPH because i believe it will help me understand global health issues much better and ultimately would hope to be part of efforts to bring quality surgical care to underdeveloped underserved regions - somewhat of a missionary surgeon.

with regard to recommendation letters, i do have one final year at Monash during which student function like sub-interns. Would you regard a LOR from a surgeon who has a FACS more highly than a surgeon who has other Fellowships from another country - e.g. FRACS, FRCS.

Thanks for the advice thus far.
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)
Why would you want to do the MRCS if you’re planning on working in the U.S?
It’s a very difficult (and expensive exam)… I know, as I’ve done it!

It may help you get residency in the U.S by showing that you possess basic surgical knowledge/skills but I doubt that it would help that much. It probably would benefit you as much as the time/money needed to put into it to pass.

the cost vs benefit ratio probably wouldn’t be in your favour. I'm sure there are other things you could do (in the states... if that's where you want to end up)
 
Alright, that's very helpful. thank you surg.

the Membership to the Royal College of Surgeons seems like the UK version of ABSITE. wouldn't that indicate a certain level of surgical knowledge attained?

Most programs don't want you coming "pre-trained". All US students have is the USMLE 1 and perhaps Step 2 before applying to residency. These exam scores are what they will be using to compare you against other applicants.

As JB notes, the exam is very difficult and expensive and most US faculty have NO idea what it entails, so I simply cannot see that it would make a significant difference on your application.

I am interested in pursuing the MPH because i believe it will help me understand global health issues much better and ultimately would hope to be part of efforts to bring quality surgical care to underdeveloped underserved regions - somewhat of a missionary surgeon. Very much like what board certified surgeon Adam Kushner MD MPH does. He set up the Society of International Humanitarian Surgeons and spends a significant amount of time overseas.

And that's a fine endeavor. But don't expect it to make a difference to your surgical residency application. Its more of something interesting to talk about. You might consider applying to academic programs which would allow you to get your MPH during lab/research years instead of doing bench work.

with regard to recommendation letters, i do have one final year at Monash during which student function like sub-interns. Would you regard a LOR from a surgeon who has a FACS more highly than a surgeon who has other Fellowships from another country - e.g. FRACS, FRCS.

I think what is MOST important is having a letter from someone who has trained in the US. They don't have to be FACS/FRACS/FRCS, etc.
 
...I am hoping to ....securing a Surgical Residency in USA:

options i am considering to boost my chances:


  1. Doing the Uni of Washington Subinternship certificate programme designed for international medical graduates (http://depts.washington.edu/uwsurgap/international.htm) - downside costs over USD 1000, last 8 weeks...
I have heard about this UofWashington program. Some of the GSurge PDs I've spoken to have expressed concerns over that program. The general synopsis I have received/heard about it:

It gives unrealistic expectations to the International Grads (FMGs) that participate. Some outright question the "ethics" of the program. In many respect it is regarded as little more then a program that certifies you can communicate in English....

I have never been there, I do not know anything first hand. I am merely expressing commentary I have heard from PDs when reviewing applications from "grads" of the program. Just looking at the link, you are paying to be an intern in the hope that UofW will offer the privilege to be a prelim.....

UW said:
...Successful graduates of this program will be considered for a two-year non-designated residency position in the department of surgery and will have faculty interviews prior to completing the program...

Tuition for the course is $1371*, plus a $50 application fee, and $35 registration fee for a total cost ofo $1456. The full amount is due at the time of registration...

JAD
 
Last edited:
a special thanks to everyone who has posted in reply to my post. your insight certainly has helped me and given me a better idea of what i should do.

cheers! and i will be sure to update you guys if i do get in !
 
You're unlikely to get a response. The OP hasn't logged into SDN in over 4 years (and the above thread is 10 years old).
Well, the dude (dudette?) did sign up almost 2 weeks ago, and was waiting for just the right moment for their first post. So, bumping a nearly 10 year old thread, bypassing the red box warning? That's internet gold, there, lady! Gold, I tells ya!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Well, the dude (dudette?) did sign up almost 2 weeks ago, and was waiting for just the right moment for their first post. So, bumping a nearly 10 year old thread, bypassing the red box warning? That's internet gold, there, lady! Gold, I tells ya!

tenor.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Top