Does practicing the physical exam on your classmates make you feel uncomfortable

[chicklett1]

At my med school, we learn all of our physical exam (except breast, pelvic, and rectal) by working with an instructor, using our classmates as "patients." For some of these instructional sessions, women were told in advance to "wear a sportsbra" to facilitate this. I sucked it up, but I'm really not crazy about taking my shirt off in front of a coed group of classmates. In fact, I felt pretty uncomfortable.

This is how it's been all year. I've had my male classmates poking around under my breast looking for my PMI, and I've had my suprapubic area palpated, etc.

I get it that it is good experience to "put yourself in your patient's shoes" and I think it's really important to learn the physical exam properly, but it also seems inappropriate that the school requires this of us. Am I wrong?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[VoiceofReason]

If I told you that this reaction you're having to being only partially disrobed and lightly touched is irrational, would that help you overcome it? Do you have problems getting naked with your boyfriend? Girlfriend? Be as specific as possible.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

For most guys, I think it is a bit uncomfortable. Especially, because it's a young, fit woman. It's one thing to ask a 70 year old obese woman to excuse me while I move her breast to the side, it's another when it's a classmate who I know. Here's a tip though, if the dude is making you uncomfortable in his technique...TELL HIM! It may be awkward, but it's going to help him develop a more conscientious way to perform the exam.

 

[UnderdogMD]

At my med school, we learn all of our physical exam (except breast, pelvic, and rectal) by working with an instructor, using our classmates as "patients." For some of these instructional sessions, women were told in advance to "wear a sportsbra" to facilitate this. I sucked it up, but I'm really not crazy about taking my shirt off in front of a coed group of classmates. In fact, I felt pretty uncomfortable.

This is how it's been all year. I've had my male classmates poking around under my breast looking for my PMI, and I've had my suprapubic area palpated, etc.

I get it that it is good experience to "put yourself in your patient's shoes" and I think it's really important to learn the physical exam properly, but it also seems inappropriate that the school requires this of us. Am I wrong?

Aren't a lot of medical schools moving away from this? I also remember reading this was more common in DO schools, but I could be wrong. I'd be curious to hear from those of you in med school whether it is done at your school.

PandabearMD says:
"It is true that you may do a few "surface anatomy" exercises with your classmates but you will not touch anybody's breasts, genitals or any other spot which would make anybody uncomfortable. We did practice drawing blood once from each other but that was it. Occasionally the professor will ask for a volunteer to demonstrate some exam skill but this is voluntary. If you don't want to be touched by your professor or classmates this is perfectly acceptable.
Because you are expected not to be squeamish about other people's bodies does not mean you are expected to discard your own modesty. When you examine a naked patient you do not strip nude yourself to make him feel more comfortable."
http://pandabearmd.com/blog/2005/12/12/urban-myth/

OP, if it is something you object to/are uncomfortable with then I don't see how the school can force you to do it.

 

[TexPre-Med]

You need to get over it.

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

OP, if it is something you object to/are uncomfortable with then I don't see how the school can force you to do it.

so if im not comfortable giving prostate exams ,do i have to do them? This will create a slippery slope of issues.

 

[UnderdogMD]

so if im not comfortable giving prostate exams ,do i have to do them? This will create a slippery slope of issues.

No, you do not have to do a prostate exam on your classmates/or have your classmates do one on you.

You will have to learn and perform them in your practice of medicine.

You misunderstood my statement. This thread isn't about procedures you are/are not comfortable with in the practice of medicine. This thread is about the OP and her objection/uncomfortableness at having to take her shirt off and be poked at-and the fact that her school requires her to do such.

In any case, people in med school can offer more advice than I can.

 

[Na1a]

You need to get over it.

I get really shy and uncomfortable, too, especially with female classmates (even though I myself am female...it's just that I am more aware of how much harder it is for us to take our shirts off...guys are more used to that).

But like the above, I just try to get over it. I tell myself not to care and then try not to care as hard as I can.

It's still a work in progress, but it's just something we all have to go through during our training years.

 

[45408]

If it's any consolation, the guys touching you there probably feel just as awkward. We practice on each other as well, but while we have guys and girls in the same room, our physical exams have all been on someone of the same sex, other than a few girls palpating and percussing my abdomen. I know that if I were feeling for a female classmate's PMI, I'd be hoping that she didn't think I was "going for the goods" on the sly.

 

[deuist]

We practice on each other at my school. Two of my classmates---one male and one female---have even trust their hands down my pants in search of a femoral pulse. We use model patients for genital/rectal, similar to your school. Otherwise, everything is done on each other without complaint.

You are going to going to perform much worse exams on your patients---and they're going to be uncomfortable, too.

The pre-med was right: you need to get over it.

 

[Nataliemay24]

Here's a tip though, if the dude is making you uncomfortable in his technique...TELL HIM!

good advice that applies to many facets of life.

 

[cyclohexanol]

I also remember reading this was more common in DO schools, but I could be wrong. I'd be curious to hear from those of you in med school whether it is done at your school.

At my school (DO), we have standardized patients who aren't students that we practice most physical exam stuff on. Last semester, they had us practicing on them as well as on each other.

That being said, in OMM lab (3-4 hrs once a week), guys are expected to be shirtless + wearing shorts and girls are expected to be in sports bra + shorts. We practice some pretty uhh.. invasive.. techniques (pelvic diaphragm release, others techniques involving sup/inf pubic rami, isch. tuberosity, etc...) on each other. So I guess after a few semesters of that you get pretty comfortable touching other people and having them touch you. I've heard the same for most other DO schools.

 

[doc20]

Your medical school is wrong doing it coed
our school had policy where we choose our own partner, and so it never was coed, caus most gals had gal partner
Also the female students could request only a female preceptor/ examiner during the exams or practice session
you should talk to your advisor/dean about this situation.

 

[Tired]

Some of these folks need to seriously grow up. If you can't seperate medical practice from sexuality, something is seriously wrong with you.

 

[mules05]

Some of these folks need to seriously grow up. If you can't seperate medical practice from sexuality, something is seriously wrong with you.

While this statement holds true, I don't know that I would find it appropriate for medical student to be required to perform physical exam on one another. If people want to pair up and practice together on their own time, that's fine. But the school should either provide standardized patients for structured practice or should allow students to opt out of being "patients" themselves. I personally wouldn't take off my shirt in front of my classmates either, but it has nothing to do with sexuality- it has to do with the fact that I'd like to be perceived as a (fully clothed) professional by my classmates and professors.

 

[BullsOnParade]

Just to put this into perspective. Back in the day they used to make students practice placing NG tubes on their classmates.

 

[MSKalltheway]

I personally dont care that much about exposing certain parts of my body when we do physical exam stuff on each other, and generally I think learning on each other is a good way to do it, but it is valued in certain cultures to maintain modesty (ie remain fully clothed) in all except a few instances. I highly doubt this instance is one of those times.

 

[akpete]

I think my most awkward moment was back in undergrad. For athletic training, would practice exams on each other all the time, and for the hip exam, we had to practice palpating the pubic bone. But we got over it. And I think we were all matched up with someone of the same sex.

 

[chicklett1]

Thanks to everyone for replying, I really do appreciate your input.

In response to some of the posters, I agree that it is important to be able to separate sexuality from appropriate medical care. Please understand that I am not suggesting that I shouldn't be required to learn an exam because I feel uncomfortable about it. That would be unacceptable for someone who wants to be a doctor.

I think that everyone experiences their own body differently, and has a different threshold or level of comfort when it comes to these things. Clearly my school acknowledges this on some level, because we use standardized patients for genital and breast exams.

I guess my issues stem from the fact that I don't have the right to delineate these boundaries for myself. I pretty much have no choice but to participate . A "real" patient that is judged mentally competent can always refuse an exam and we as professionals have to respect that even if we disagree. I'm pretty sure that if I refused, I would face some sort of punitive measure. It is also the case that in most doctor-patient settings, the patient is not on display to a large mixed gender group (25-30) of people.

Although these problems don't necessarily relate to me, I can think of many reasons why a medical student would not want to be unclothed or examined in front of colleagues. What if the person has a medical condition that they don't want everybody and their brother knowing about (like breast cancer, etc)? Being forced to do this exam would "out" them. Certainly patients have HIPPA laws protecting the privacy of their medical care, and for good reason. Your personal medical care is not the business of your classmates. What if a person has been the victim of sexual assault, and has issues relating to physical boundaries and control? What if someone has an eating disorder that is linked to very poor body image? What if a person is transgendered? What if a person has religious or cultural beliefs that value personal modesty?

I did talk to the program director at my school, and her response was basically that it was my problem and I needed to deal with it because school policy isn't going to change. I disagree with that decision, but it seems that I am in the minority, so I guess I will do just that--deal with it.

 

[Jesus DO]

At my school (DO), we have standardized patients who aren't students that we practice most physical exam stuff on. Last semester, they had us practicing on them as well as on each other.

That being said, in OMM lab (3-4 hrs once a week), guys are expected to be shirtless + wearing shorts and girls are expected to be in sports bra + shorts. We practice some pretty uhh.. invasive.. techniques (pelvic diaphragm release, others techniques involving sup/inf pubic rami, isch. tuberosity, etc...) on each other. So I guess after a few semesters of that you get pretty comfortable touching other people and having them touch you. I've heard the same for most other DO schools.

"Pubic turbcles...dude got a tenderpoint here?"

At first it's weird as hell, but eventually you get used to touching someone elses pubics. We laugh about it, but eventually it becomes boring.

 

[AmyO]

I do understand that it is uncomfortable at first, but this is how you learn to become comfortable touching people and doing the physical exam. You will also have to do it for the 2nd part of your boards and not to mention the rest of your career. I know I appreciate the opportunity to be able to practice on my classmates so that it second-nature now (in my 2nd year). And as far as feeling uncomfortable when other students are practicing on you, you got to practice on them. This is their chance to learn. Is it b/c they are your classmates or is it with anybody? You are going to encounter a lot more "uncomfortable" situations than this, so think of it as a learning experience. I don't think it is wrong of your school either to tell you that you are going to have to get over your uneasiness, b/c this is an essential part of learning medicine.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Although these problems don't necessarily relate to me, I can think of many reasons why a medical student would not want to be unclothed or examined in front of colleagues. What if the person has a medical condition that they don't want everybody and their brother knowing about (like breast cancer, etc)? Being forced to do this exam would "out" them. Certainly patients have HIPPA laws protecting the privacy of their medical care, and for good reason. Your personal medical care is not the business of your classmates. What if a person has been the victim of sexual assault, and has issues relating to physical boundaries and control? What if someone has an eating disorder that is linked to very poor body image? What if a person is transgendered? What if a person has religious or cultural beliefs that value personal modesty?

This is definitely an issue that has to come up. I know we had a recent inquiry on SDN from an incoming student who had some scars and maybe a colostomy (can't remember exactly) that he wasn't comfortable exposing to other people. Because of reasons like that, I think schools should have some more sensitivity. Luckily at my school, we never have to publicly perform exams on each other. Usually we have one volunteer for the instructor to demonstrate on (generally a non-modest guy), and then we break up into small groups to practice on each other. We're not closely monitored and generally cluster in groups of more than 2, so it wouldn't be a big deal if you didn't want something done on you.

I'm also going to add that it really does feel different to do things like this to your peers versus patients you would see elsewhere. I agree that standardized patients would be the optimal learning tool for all physical exam sessions, but I guess they're too expensive.

 

[justwondering]

having some guy from class palpate for ur pmi is totally different from having ur doctor do it. how can u not get that? med students will not all view each other as "patients" just because ure practicing an exam. you have too much history with each other. the guy you thought was cute at the post test party and all those times you studied together is still going to be cute during the femoral pulse exam. its very different from a good looking patient.

would you guys be ok with finding ur fellow students are doing a rotation with ur personal doctor and that they will now be seeing u, your records, etc? maybe u'd be ok with certain students participating, but then u'd have more control of the situation as a real patient in clinic.

if ure feeling uncomfortable, im sure there are others too. maybe u can write a short letter to ur dean stating ur preference for same-sex groups or for people to choose their own groups. make sure you are clear that you are not uncomforable with the exam itself but uncomfortable with the fact that these are people you know personally who will be doing the exams.

 

[MSHell]

I do understand that it is uncomfortable at first, but this is how you learn to become comfortable touching people and doing the physical exam...

I'm going to have to disagree with this. We did not have to practice physical exams on each other (except bp measurement) and we're not worse off for it. Although I would have been uncomfortable practicing the physical exam with my classmates I am not at all uncomfortable with patients.

 

[chicklett1]

Thanks, MSHell. I strongly agree with you. Before I was a med student, I was an ultrasound tech, and I did vaginal ultrasounds all day long for almost three years. It's really not touching people that's my problem! It's the fact that they are my colleagues.

My boyfriend is a doctor, and even though I am not self conscious about being disrobed in front of him, I would never ask him to act as my personal physician because that's not the nature of our relationship.

In the same way, I draw a distinction between my role as medical student and my role as patient. When I'm sick, I go to my own doctor, and as a patient, I feel pretty comfortable being examined by her. I do not feel comfortable being examined by my classmates.

It seems that I feel way more strongly about this than many others, though.

 

[Crixivan]

I'm one of those non-modest people who often becomes the model, and it usually doesn't bother me because I'm not very shy.

What concerns me more is the lack of professionalism/maturity that I sometimes see with classmates. If you're practicing a physical exam, then you should be practicing how you'd behave with a real patient too. When I people laughing, tickling, or chit-chatting about last week's party, it makes me feel like I'm wasting my time.

 

[mjl1717]

For most guys, I think it is a bit uncomfortable. Especially, because it's a young, fit woman. It's one thing to ask a 70 year old obese woman to excuse me while I move her breast to the side, it's another when it's a classmate who I know. Here's a tip though, if the dude is making you uncomfortable in his technique...TELL HIM! It may be awkward, but it's going to help him develop a more conscientious way to perform the exam.

This is an excellent, conscientious response, also grow up!

1)But most importantly learn how to communicate properly, at the right time and in the right context (most will trake this for granted).. This goes for the examiner and examinee..

2)To me at least 50% of medicine is proper communication.

 

[jbar]

I really like how we do things here. We get to chose the groups of four with whom we will lean the physical exam. So if you are female and want to be with three other girls you can do that. I also like that if it's a mixed group you can chose three friends that make you feel comfortable, so it's not some random person in your class checking out your PMI. I've learned a lot from doing exams on people in my group and feel very comfortable with them by now.

 

[sprinkibrio]

At my med school, we learn all of our physical exam (except breast, pelvic, and rectal) by working with an instructor, using our classmates as "patients." For some of these instructional sessions, women were told in advance to "wear a sportsbra" to facilitate this. I sucked it up, but I'm really not crazy about taking my shirt off in front of a coed group of classmates. In fact, I felt pretty uncomfortable.

This is how it's been all year. I've had my male classmates poking around under my breast looking for my PMI, and I've had my suprapubic area palpated, etc.

I get it that it is good experience to "put yourself in your patient's shoes" and I think it's really important to learn the physical exam properly, but it also seems inappropriate that the school requires this of us. Am I wrong?

You're totally wrong. Do you realize that when my dad went to school they gave each other rectal exams? Co-ed rectal exams?!?!! This is part of the "hazing" of med school. Hopefully it will make everyone realize that we're all the same and you might learn to see your body and others bodies in a way that is not sexual.

Part of this transformation into doctors is about learning in the classroom, but part is about gaining strength, security, growing, and being open-minded. How are you going to learn about yourself and consequently humanity if you never test your boundaries? You will be having to do things you don't agree with and aren't comfortable with every day in medicine.

If you do have medical information that will be spilled in one of these exams (like a colonoscopy bag) that's a totally, totally different issue and should have every right to keep that personal. How your femoral pulse feels? Eh, quite like everyone else's and not solely info for your doctor because it's not that personal or unique.

 

[geogil]

Part of this transformation into doctors is about learning in the classroom, but part is about gaining strength, security, growing, and being open-minded. How are you going to learn about yourself and consequently humanity if you never test your boundaries? You will be having to do things you don't agree with and aren't comfortable with every day in medicine.

Why should the OP be obligated to push his/her boundaries regarding personal space? What if the OP had a religious requirement that forbade them from disrobing in front of the opposite sex. Should she (I'll stick with one pronoun for simplicity) be obligated to "push her boundaries" despite the fact that it would violate deeply held beliefs? That's not growth, it's coercion. How is simply not wanting to disrobe any different than having a religious reason for not disrobing? Functionally they're the same, so why does it matter? In the OP's case, I think she should have the right to opt out if she wants to. Yes, in medical school we have to grow, but we also shouldn't sacrifice our principles simply for the sake of 'growth'.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Can someone tell this lowly pre-med what a PMI is?

Also, some of you say that your partners should be of the same sex, but couldn't partnering the students up with someone of the same sex also pose problems? What if they pair a male up with a gay male? Probably not a big deal with girls, but guys seem to have trouble with men who are gay.

 

[geogil]

.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Can someone tell this lowly pre-med what a PMI is?

Point of Maximum Impact in a cardiac exam. It's around the 5th intercostal space in the mid-clavicular line, so it requires you to cross some boundaries when doing it on a woman.

http://depts.washington.edu/medclerk/student/cardiac.html

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Point of Maximum Impact in a cardiac exam. It's around the 5th intercostal space in the mid-clavicular line, so it requires you to cross some boundaries when doing it on a woman.

http://depts.washington.edu/medclerk/student/cardiac.html

Ah, okay. Thanks!

 

[acbyrd]

When I went to Ranger School in the Army. We had to use a latrine that was one large room (probably about 20' x 40') with 4 rows of toilets. No partitions. I found that it wasn't so much the crapping in front of others that was uncomfortable, but it was the process of wiping. It wasn't like we all went at different times either. It always worked out that there was a crowd in there because we were all released from other training events at the same time.

This has nothing to do with the OP. It is only for your mental pleasure.

As long as one of my classmates doesn't have to milk my prostate, I'll be fine.

 

[TheLesPaul]

When I went to Ranger School in the Army. We had to use a latrine that was one large room (probably about 20' x 40') with 4 rows of toilets. No partitions. I found that it wasn't so much the crapping in front of others that was uncomfortable, but it was the process of wiping. It wasn't like we all went at different times either. It always worked out that there was a crowd in there because we were all released from other training events at the same time.

This has nothing to do with the OP. It is only for your mental pleasure.

As long as one of my classmates doesn't have to milk my prostate, I'll be fine.

For some reason, that line just made my day .

Out of curiosity, which medical schools require this type of thing? Or at least...does UTSW?

 

[45408]

Usually we have one volunteer for the instructor to demonstrate on (generally a non-modest guy), and then we break up into small groups to practice on each other. We're not closely monitored and generally cluster in groups of more than 2, so it wouldn't be a big deal if you didn't want something done on you.

Haha, I'm often the non-modest guy, as well as the fact that I have the words "take my shirt off" stamped on my forehead that any attending can apparently see, because I'm also picked routinely for "hands-on" demonstrations. In our groups, you can easily opt not to be touched very much, and one classmate who is quite overweight seems to stand aside during these small groups, which seems understandable to me. I think it's a good way to do things.

 

[mjl1717]

When I went to Ranger School in the Army. We had to use a latrine that was one large room (probably about 20' x 40') with 4 rows of toilets. No partitions. I found that it wasn't so much the crapping in front of others that was uncomfortable, but it was the process of wiping. It wasn't like we all went at different times either. It always worked out that there was a crowd in there because we were all released from other training events at the same time.

This has nothing to do with the OP. It is only for your mental pleasure.

As long as one of my classmates doesn't have to milk my prostate, I'll be fine.

This is very entertaining!!

 

[mjl1717]

Haha, I'm often the non-modest guy, as well as the fact that I have the words "take my shirt off" stamped on my forehead that any attending can apparently see, because I'm also picked routinely for "hands-on" demonstrations. In our groups, you can easily opt not to be touched very much, and one classmate who is quite overweight seems to stand aside during these small groups, which seems understandable to me. I think it's a good way to do things.

Fair enough!

 

[MSHell]

Obviously you didn't read the whole thread, but this was mentionned. I'll say it again tho. We don't practice physical exams on each other and we're not worse off for it. Although I'd be uncomfortable doing this with classmates, I am comfortable with patients.

How is that difficult to understand? If separating nakedness from sex is what is important, then shouldn't separating friends/classmates from patients be more important??

You're totally wrong. Do you realize that when my dad went to school they gave each other rectal exams? Co-ed rectal exams?!?!! This is part of the "hazing" of med school. Hopefully it will make everyone realize that we're all the same and you might learn to see your body and others bodies in a way that is not sexual.

Part of this transformation into doctors is about learning in the classroom, but part is about gaining strength, security, growing, and being open-minded. How are you going to learn about yourself and consequently humanity if you never test your boundaries? You will be having to do things you don't agree with and aren't comfortable with every day in medicine.

If you do have medical information that will be spilled in one of these exams (like a colonoscopy bag) that's a totally, totally different issue and should have every right to keep that personal. How your femoral pulse feels? Eh, quite like everyone else's and not solely info for your doctor because it's not that personal or unique.

 

[OncoCaP]

If you don't want to be examined ... just refuse to go along with it. I doubt you would get kicked out of school for that. However, I would talk with my instructor beforehand. It might make some people unhappy if you didn't go along with the plan, but you can just say "no" and mean it. If they give you any trouble, get a lawyer who specializes in sexual harassment and work out something acceptable to you. Don't put up with any junk in this regard. One letter from a lawyer expressing your concerns and they will realize that a lawsuit could cost your school large sums and they will leave you alone. If they exact any retribution (giving you a bad grade, etc.), that might be worth millions in damages, and so I doubt they will make any stupid moves. Also, keep in mind that you might get into hot water and suffer through some unpleasant situations. Most people probably wouldn't rock the boat, but you have options that you can explore if you want.

 

[Maxprime]

I don't think it's been stated yet, but I apologize if it has.

Isn't it important to put yourself in a patient's shoes every once and a while? People hate getting naked in front of strangers, it probably wouldn't hurt physicians in training to be reminded of that.

 

[soeagerun2or]

Classmates are professionals in training. Would you have the same objections to being examined by them after graduation? How about after residency? The classmate exam is to help both parties get over their insecurities of examining and, hopefully, teach the examiner to act professionally regardless of the patient.

 

[Abilene85]

Isn't it important to put yourself in a patient's shoes every once and a while? People hate getting naked in front of strangers, it probably wouldn't hurt physicians in training to be reminded of that.

When I go to my gynecologist, I have no problem stripping down, putting my feet up into those stirrups, and scooting to the edge of the table. She’s my doc and I am there for my health. She has seen it all and I am not self-conscious around her. But the doctor/patient relationship I have with her is totally different from the future-doctor/pretend-patient relationship I would have with my classmates…you know, the kids I go to movies with, meet at the bar…one of the major dating pools I have.

However, I do see the benefit of practicing on people who will not be afraid to tell you how it feels. I would be okay with small groups of about 3-4 people that we were able to choose.

Classmates are professionals in training. Would you have the same objections to being examined by them after graduation.

Unless my former classmate was one of the best in their field, I would not go to a friend for a medical exam.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I don't think it's been stated yet, but I apologize if it has.

Isn't it important to put yourself in a patient's shoes every once and a while? People hate getting naked in front of strangers, it probably wouldn't hurt physicians in training to be reminded of that.

I can see that point, but I can also see how if it's done in a hazing manner, it could make us macho about it and consequently more insensitive to people who find it uncomfortable. By teaching students to not be respectful of their classmates' boundaries, aren't we teaching them to not be respectful of patients' boundaries?

 

[Maxprime]

When I go to my gynecologist, I have no problem stripping down, putting my feet up into those stirrups, and scooting to the edge of the table. She's my doc and I am there for my health. She has seen it all and I am not self-conscious around her. But the doctor/patient relationship I have with her is totally different from the future-doctor/pretend-patient relationship I would have with my classmates…you know, the kids I go to movies with, meet at the bar…one of the major dating pools I have.

I think that's the problem. When I go to the doc, I don't care if it's a male or female, I'll get naked without thinking twice about it. We know that the clinician is (at least supposed to be) approaching the situation asexually.

But people outside of the medical world don't know the nature of the relationship. Forcing med students to feel how uncomfortable it is to be naked around someone you don't want to is probably good for them. If your classmates hazed you about something afterwards, that would be seriously f-d up.

 

[Maxprime]

I can see that point, but I can also see how if it's done in a hazing manner, it could make us macho about it and consequently more insensitive to people who find it uncomfortable. By teaching students to not be respectful of their classmates' boundaries, aren't we teaching them to not be respectful of patients' boundaries?

I see your point, but I think the importance of the activity is to learn to be respectful of others' boundaries. A good example being someone that is required to cover themselves for religious purposes. They boundary is obviously firm and requires them to be clothed. The point of the exercise would be to learn from their culture so you could approach a patient with similar values appropriately. While an extreme example, I feel like every situation with boundaries could provide an important conversation. If I was examining a friend, I feel like they would mention things that could make a patient feel uncomfortable, but not enough to make a big deal out of it (body langage, etc.).

 

[Tired Pigeon]

If you don't want to be examined ... just refuse to go along with it. I doubt you would get kicked out of school for that. However, I would talk with my instructor beforehand. It might make some people unhappy if you didn't go along with the plan, but you can just say "no" and mean it. If they give you any trouble, get a lawyer who specializes in sexual harassment and work out something acceptable to you. Don't put up with any junk in this regard. One letter from a lawyer expressing your concerns and they will realize that a lawsuit could cost your school large sums and they will leave you alone. If they exact any retribution (giving you a bad grade, etc.), that might be worth millions in damages, and so I doubt they will make any stupid moves. Also, keep in mind that you might get into hot water and suffer through some unpleasant situations. Most people probably wouldn't rock the boat, but you have options that you can explore if you want.

While this is likely technically correct, I would be careful in employing such a contentious approach. In other words, pick your battles -- is this a big enough issue for you to threaten a lawsuit? While you have the right to decline participation in this type of activity, be aware that choosing this course of action will likely brand you as 'not a team player' and someone who is 'difficult'. It may be completely unfair, but that's how many people (both faculty and fellow students) will perceive you. This perception will follow you as you undertake other aspects of your medical education and can create difficulties down the road.

Note that I'm not offering an opinion as to whether it's right or wrong to require this of students, just pointing out that from a big picture perspective it might be better to not rock the boat.

 

[soeagerun2or]

Unless my former classmate was one of the best in their field, I would not go to a friend for a medical exam.

That calls in to question the strength of the education provided at your school.

 

[Abilene85]

That calls in to question the strength of the education provided at your school.

WTF are you serious? I say this because I would rather keep my relationship with my doc strictly professional and not have to deal with reminiscing about professor X while getting a breast exam or talking about weight gain, depression, incontinence, fungus, warts...of course if I needed to see a cardiologist and my former classmate was the #3 cardiologist in the country and living closeby, I wouldn't compromise my health and go see the average joe cardio guy.

Edit: It is possible you misunderstood and thought I meant I would not see any graduate of my school. I am talking about people in my class and those above/below me that I know. My GP is a graduate of my school and she is great.