Does prestige of the med school matter?

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Forkit

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Hey guys,

Does the prestige of med school matter for you starting salary? In other words, would attending John Hopkins be wiser than attending the med program at my local state school (UCF)? I would like to earn as much as possible as soon as I graduate, so would taking a hefty loan for a pretigious school be worthwhile.

Please, only serious answers!
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i'm pretty sure it has more to do with your residency than your med school. your residency will determine where you go next which will in turn determine your starting salary. at least thats my impression. you shouldnt be worried about starting salary anyway, you will pay it off eventually no matter you come from....
 
ryserr21 said:
i'm pretty sure it has more to do with your residency than your med school. your residency will determine where you go next which will in turn determine your starting salary. at least thats my impression. you shouldnt be worried about starting salary anyway, you will pay it off eventually no matter you come from....
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So if I want to work in California, I should apply to a California school?

Also, why do people pursue Harvard or JHU with a hefty loan, knowing it wont help them in the long run?

Thanks for the answer, appreciate it!!
 
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Forkit said:
So if I want to work in California, I should apply to a California school?

Also, why do people pursue Harvard or JHU with a hefty loan, knowing it wont help them in the long run?

Thanks for the answer, appreciate it!!
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i didnt mean my answer to sound like going to Harvard or JHU won't help you in the long run. sure, those names have a lot of prestige and get "wows" when peopel here that you go there. you hae to admit it sounds pretty good to say "i go to harvard med school" i think doors just kind of open up for you when you say that. but if you dont go to harvard, its not like you wont succeed. you are going to make money, you dont need to go to Harvard. if you are a good doc, and you show it, you will go to a good residency, and you will make money. if you go to harvard and you fail......great, what have you accomplished?

you are going to have a hefty loan no matter way you go, none of the schools are cheap

as far as working in california....you can work where ever you want after you graduate. you know? you dont need to go to school in cali if you wanna work here. right now im thinking of goin to school in iowa, then residency to who konws where, then eventually back to cali (im from san diego)...so yea.
 
Forkit said:
Also, why do people pursue Harvard or JHU with a hefty loan, knowing it wont help them in the long run?
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Why do some folks buy Coca-Cola over the local Qwiky Mart brand cola? :D

On a more serious note, I'm sure going to a more well-known and well-connected medical school helps with matching into the best residency program that you can. Of course, your own personal performance on the boards, 3rd & 4th year grades, LORs, and rotating (with favorable reviews, of course) where you want to ultimately do your residency, how well you interview, etc., matter quite a lot, but probably name recognition matters some, too. How much it matters, I can't really say. However, I bet it helps a bit more if you want to go into academia, go into research, or match into a more competitive program... Something like that.

Anyway, I think the personal elements are probably more significant. Nevertheless, I must confess that name-recognition of your school can only help in obtaining the residency of your dreams.

In closing, indeed, taken together, your field, where you choose to practice, your residency, and your performance (and probably some other elements that I can't think of right now) are probably better indicators of starting salary than what school you attended.
 
Forkit said:
So if I want to work in California, I should apply to a California school?

Also, why do people pursue Harvard or JHU with a hefty loan, knowing it wont help them in the long run?

Thanks for the answer, appreciate it!!
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Well, outside of the fact that Harvard and JHU are exceptional teaching institutions (reason enough for anyone to attend)... graduating from a well known program can help in obtaining some of the more competitive residencies. Networking and so-forth. You have an opportunity to shadow some of the most well known researchers in their respective fields and pursue research on your own (which can be a big deal for certain specialties).

And keep in mind, students that are able to obtain acceptance to programs of this stature frequently will have a considerable amount of financial help by way of grants and scholarships. But yes, it's still going to cost a big chunk of change regardless.
 
If we're talking about a school like Harvard, GA-PCOM, Stanford, or Hopkins, sure it makes a difference. But probably not that big of a difference. And as for most schools, it probably doesn't make much difference, and it all comes down to how well you perform.
 
UCF doesn't have a program...yet
 
Sorry, but Im confused (i'm n00b).

What do you guys mean by "residency?" Are you guys trying to say that I'll have to work in Florida if I graduate from a Fl state school? So if I study in a fairly prestigious school, I can work wherever I want?

Thanks!
 
TexasTriathlete said:
If we're talking about a school like Harvard, GA-PCOM, Stanford, or Hopkins, sure it makes a difference. But probably not that big of a difference. And as for most schools, it probably doesn't make much difference, and it all comes down to how well you perform.
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:lol: I knew you were going to say something like that as I started to read your reply.


OP, presitge does matter a bit because it will help you place into a residency. That being said, placing into a residency is analgous to getting into medical school. Just passing your boards by the skin of your teeth is not going to get you into a radiology residency just as getting a 3.5/30 is not going to get you into Hopkins (just work with it). This is mostly based on your performance. However, use your school's resources to the max.
 
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ahaydt said:
A residency is a program that allows you to specialize.
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So I cannot specialize in say, cardiology, if I simply wanted to (give I'm qualified)?
 
Forkit said:
So I cannot specialize in say, cardiology, if I simply wanted to (give I'm qualified)?
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You'll want to read up on how medical education works... Wiki probably has an entry.

How it works in a nutshell:

Medical school (4 years) --

1st & 2nd year -- Preclinical (basic science classes)
3rd & 4th year -- Clinical Rotations

Residency (3 years, or longer) --

PGY (post-graduate year) 1-3 (or longer) -- Specialty training, such as internal medicine

Fellowship (2-3 years) --

Subspecialty Training (such as Cardiology, often, 2-3 years in addition to residency)
 
Everyone does a residency. As far as I know, there is no way to not do a residency and still practice medicine.
 
You need to do well on your COMLEX/USMLE Board exams, get letters of recommendation, network, usually rotate at the residency site you want, and do well in medical school. The same things that get you into medical school will get you into a residency program of your choice. That being said, internal medicine (the residency) is not too competitive to get into. However, cardiology (the fellowship) I would imagine is more difficult to get into after residency.
 
Forkit said:
So does residency depend on availability. In other words, if a school has a cardiology program, I can easily study cardiology? Where does the "residency" come to play?
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It's a pretty complicated process, partially like applying to medical school all over again, only to a residency program (at a hospital, usually academic), and partially like applying for a job. You "match" into a program during your fourth year of medical school. You pick a whole bunch of programs (you look through a registry of available programs and hopefully by this time, you have already rotated at one, or more, of these site in your fourth year elective rotations) that you think you'd like to do your residency training and apply to them using a universal application service. You prioritize them based on your preference. The residency programs prioritize you, too, based on a number of factors, such as your application (board scores, 3rd/4th year grades, LORs, interview, how much they like you, etc.). You are competing for the spots in a given program with others who have applied. If there is match between you and the program, you "match" (unsurprisingly) into that program. Something like that... There are a finite amount of seats per program and some are more competitive than others. Some fields typically have very competitive residency programs, such as opthamology, or dermatology, or the like.
 
endocardium said:
It's a pretty complicated process, partially like applying to medical school all over again, only to a residency program (at a hospital, usually academic), and partially like applying for a job. You "match" into a program during your fourth year of medical school. You pick a whole bunch of programs (you look through a registry of available programs and hopefully by this time, you have already rotated at one, or more, of these site in your fourth year elective rotations) that you think you'd like to do your residency training and apply to them using a universal application programs prioritize yservice. You prioritize them based on your preference. The residency, based on a number of factors, such as your application (board scores, 3rd/4th year grades, LORs, interview, how much they like you, etc.). If there is match between you and the program, you "match" (unsurprisingly) into that program. Something like that...
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Oh I'm starting to understand. So am I guranteed to be matched into one of the programs of my liking? And how does the school prestige play into this? Does that mean I'm not guranteed into cardiology specifically?

Thanks!
 
1st two years of medical school prepare you for rotations. After your first two years, you will take your boards, which, depending on how well you do, can give you some idea of what kind of residency programs you will be competitive for.

Rotations prepare you for residency. With your elective rotations, you will probably want to rotate at programs where you are interested in applying for residency. There are many things that will go into whether or not you are accepted to a given residency program, and school prestige would come into play here. But it probably isn't that big a deal, in general.

As a resident, you will learn how to be a doctor. If you wanted to be a cardiologist, you would do an internal medicine residency, and then apply for additional fellowship training in cardiology. Most of these spots are extremely competitive, and I seriously doubt that where you went to medical school matters at all once you've gotten this far.
 
Forkit said:
Oh I'm starting to understand. So am I guranteed to be matched into one of the programs of my liking? And how does the school prestige play into this? Does that mean I'm not guranteed into cardiology specifically?

Thanks!
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Well, no, unfortunately there are never any guarantees at any step along the way, from applying and getting accepted into medical school, to applying and matching into a residency. Some folks don't match into any of the programs they applied to and have to scramble at the end; some folks end up settling for less than optimal. I'd say that much of the success of the match process depends on how strong your application is, your chosen field (specialty), and how wisely you applied. Matching into residency is similar to applying to medical school, or applying for a job; it is a competitive process and pretty much any advantage helps. Typically, programs look at your board scores, your class rank, 3rd/4th year grades, LORs, whether they have worked with you before, how your interview with them went, etc. They are trying to see if you fit well with their program and team. They have to work with you for 3 or more years, so they better be able to work with you. As I mentioned before, there are a finite number of spots per program, so you are competing with others that have also applied to that program. There are no guarantees.

It may help if your school is better recognized, etc., but I think this isn't as important as the other factors I mentioned above.
 
TexasTriathlete said:
1st two years of medical school prepare you for rotations. After your first two years, you will take your boards, which, depending on how well you do, can give you some idea of what kind of residency programs you will be competitive for.

Rotations prepare you for residency. With your elective rotations, you will probably want to rotate at programs where you are interested in applying for residency. There are many things that will go into whether or not you are accepted to a given residency program, and school prestige would come into play here. But it probably isn't that big a deal, in general.

As a resident, you will learn how to be a doctor. If you wanted to be a cardiologist, you would do an internal medicine residency, and then apply for additional fellowship training in cardiology. Most of these spots are extremely competitive, and I seriously doubt that where you went to medical school matters at all once you've gotten this far.
Click to expand...

So should I make sure that the school I'm applying to has a medical school program has a cardiology program? Or do I have the option to change schools after the board exams if they dont have cardiology?

Thanks, I really appreciate the input.
 
endocardium said:
Well, no, unfortunately there are never any guarantees at any step along the way, from applying and getting accepted into medical school, to applying and matching into a residency. Some folks don't match into any of the programs they applied to and have to scramble at the end; some folks end up settling for less than optimal. I'd say that much of the success of the match process depends on how strong your application is, your chosen field (specialty), and how wisely you applied. Matching into residency is similar to applying to medical school, or applying for a job; it is a competitive process and pretty much any advantage helps. Typically, programs look at your board scores, your class rank, 3rd/4th year grades, LORs, whether they have worked with you before, how your interview with them went, etc. They are trying to see if you fit well with their program and team. They have to work with you for 3 or more years, so they better be able to work with you. As I mentioned before, there are a finite number of spots per program, so you are competing with others that have also applied to that program. There are no guarantees.

It can help if your program is better recognized, etc., but I think this isn't as important as the other factors I mentioned above.
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Who is "they?" The school itself?
 
Forkit said:
Who is "they?" The school itself?
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The residency programs to which you applied. Residency goes far beyond your own school (although your school may also have a residency program). They (the programs) are all across the country in a variety of different hospitals, typically academic, or teaching hospitals.
 
endocardium said:
The residency programs to which you applied. Residency goes far beyond your own school (although your school may also have a residency program). They (the programs) are all across the country in a variety of different hospitals, typically academic.
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Thanks again bro! Do I get paid while working in a residency program?
 
Forkit said:
So should I make sure that the school I'm applying to has a medical school program has a cardiology program? Or do I have the option to change schools after the board exams if they dont have cardiology?

Thanks, I really appreciate the input.
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Simply put, you have a lot to learn about the process. Don't you have a premed advisor, or something? Maybe you should talk to a physician?

In order to do cardiology, you first need to finish medical school. During your fourth year, you apply to a whole bunch of residency programs in internal medicine (one of the programs may be at your own school, if that is an option, but typically, you apply to other programs at a variety of academic hospitals near and/or far). After you match into IM and complete 3 years of residency, you apply for a cardiology fellowship, at your same hospital and/or at others. You complete cardiology fellowship after 2-3 years and then you are cardiologist.
 
Forkit said:
Thanks again bro! Do I get paid while working in a residency program?
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Yes. It varies depending on COL of the area and the program, but it is typically in the range of $40-55K (although it may be more). You may also get some kind of benefits. It's not much to speak of and the hours typically suck. You will most likely be on a Q3 schedule (overnight call every third day). You are still in the learning phase and the hospital essentially owns you. You represent cheap labor to them. :smuggrin:
 
Sorry if I was a bit grumpy, newbie. I still haven't yet recovered from a rough semester. Feel free to ask questions here; the folks in this forum are very informative and helpful.
 
Forkit said:
So should I make sure that the school I'm applying to has a medical school program has a cardiology program? Or do I have the option to change schools after the board exams if they dont have cardiology?

Thanks, I really appreciate the input.
Click to expand...
No and no. Medical curriculum is standardized by law. You'll get the same basic stuff at any school, with very few exceptions. Once you're done with school, you will apply to residency programs all over the country. So let's say you go to TCOM, and you decide you still want to go after cardiology. You would identify which internal medicine programs you want to apply to. So maybe you rotated at Stanford, Kansas, and PCOM affiliates for internal medicine. You would then apply to all of those, and probably quite a few others. After you've matched to your residency, you would then spend a few years doing that before you apply for fellowship. So maybe you heard good things about the cardiology fellowships at Duke and South Dakota. You would then apply to those fellowships, and probably some others, and hope you land one.

Since I have not gone through the process yet, I really have a very basic understanding of it, but I'm pretty certain that everything I am telling you is right, albeit not detailed.
 
I shoulda suspected it with the title of the thread.
 
ryserr21 said:
whats a troll? and whats bump?
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Troll: person whose posts have the sole purpose of starting trouble. Also one of those annoying smug-looking naked plastic dolls with the colored standup hair. We get somebody pretending to be a sophomore, asking about prestige, as a setup for DO bashing, all the time in here. So real sophomores who lose sleep over prestige, instead of working on getting laid, get screwed.

Bump: when you post on a thread for no other reason than to make the thread show up higher in the forum.
 
It matters, but not as much as people think.
 
TexasTriathlete said:
No and no. Medical curriculum is standardized by law. You'll get the same basic stuff at any school, with very few exceptions. Once you're done with school, you will apply to residency programs all over the country. So let's say you go to TCOM, and you decide you still want to go after cardiology. You would identify which internal medicine programs you want to apply to. So maybe you rotated at Stanford, Kansas, and PCOM affiliates for internal medicine. You would then apply to all of those, and probably quite a few others. After you've matched to your residency, you would then spend a few years doing that before you apply for fellowship. So maybe you heard good things about the cardiology fellowships at Duke and South Dakota. You would then apply to those fellowships, and probably some others, and hope you land one.

Since I have not gone through the process yet, I really have a very basic understanding of it, but I'm pretty certain that everything I am telling you is right, albeit not detailed.
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The only thing you left out is that you should probably match IM at a place tha that has a fellowship in which you are interested. Fellowships love to take their own.:thumbup:
 
In that case, GA-PCOM is about to become the most prestigious school in the country.
 
ive never seen a thread like this before
 
The boards level the playing field just as the MCAT did/does prior to matriculation; remember, the undergrad institution had little relevance not too long ago . Everything else (the tiered medical school rankings in this forum) is just a pissing contest, plain and simple.
 
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