Does the medical school you go to determine how good of doctor you'll be?

[han14tra]

Are medical students that come from Hopkins, Mayo, or Penn any better than those who come from less prestigious schools (not naming any because I don't want to start a war)?

Honestly, do you think it matters what medical school you go to? After all, the adcom's primary admissions criteria is your grades in classes that have NOTHING to do with medicine and the MCAT, which also has NOTHING to do with medicine.

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[MILK07]

I've always believed that you get out of something what you put into it. So, I don't think it matters where you go, just how dedicated you are to learning what you need to learn. Of course, just my lowly pre-med $0.02.

 

[mmmcdowe]

If you're good enough, you're good enough regardless of where you go. If the most famous and "best" physicians come from particular schools, its only because the students were the best. There are benefits from being the top student at a midlevel school, or an average student at the top schools, it's sometimes a matter of feel or preference or even strategy.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Are medical students that come from Hopkins, Mayo, or Penn any better than those who come from less prestigious schools (not naming any because I don't want to start a war)?

Honestly, do you think it matters what medical school you go to? After all, the adcom's primary admissions criteria is your grades in classes that have NOTHING to do with medicine and the MCAT, which also has NOTHING to do with medicine.

You are not correct about that, though. MCAT demonstrates critical thinking and crisis prevention, both necessary for the medical field. Grades show determination, the ability to balance workloads, etc ,etc. Intelligence is necessary to be a physician, and I would argue that if you can't get at least the baseline requirements for GPA and MCAT scores, then 9 times out of 10, you're probably not cut out to be it. There are always exceptions, however.

 

[han14tra]

At the same time, medicine is not a multiple choice test.

 

[RySerr21]

it might matter in terms of residency choice......... but i would absolutely disagree with the idea that your medical school determines how good of a doctor you will be. You dotn think that Mayo, Penn, Harvard, etc have ever graduated a med student who has become a sh*tty doctor? I find that hard to believe. Being a good doctor is more than being book smart.

 

[RoadRunner17]

At the same time, medicine is not a multiple choice test.

The medical licensing exams, however, are.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Are medical students that come from Hopkins, Mayo, or Penn any better than those who come from less prestigious schools (not naming any because I don't want to start a war)?

Honestly, do you think it matters what medical school you go to? After all, the adcom's primary admissions criteria is your grades in classes that have NOTHING to do with medicine and the MCAT, which also has NOTHING to do with medicine.

Any medical school can make you a great doctor. Some residency programs I agree will prepare you more than others.

Your gpa and MCAT not only prove critical reasoning skills, they prove just how hard you are willing to work for something. Medical school is a way of life. I work more than my high school buddies who are engineers. The difference: I make $0 and they make $75,000. If you aren't committed enough to get good grades and spend some time studying for the MCAT, maybe you should re-evaluate your career goals (general advise - not saying you aren't in it 100%).

 

[Law2Doc]

Are medical students that come from Hopkins, Mayo, or Penn any better than those who come from less prestigious schools (not naming any because I don't want to start a war)?

Honestly, do you think it matters what medical school you go to? After all, the adcom's primary admissions criteria is your grades in classes that have NOTHING to do with medicine and the MCAT, which also has NOTHING to do with medicine.

It's impossible to answer this question because there are a million definitions of "better". Certainly high MCAT scores have nothing to do with better. But are folks who are able to demonstrate their knowledge of medical information on tests better? Or are folks with better honed clinical skills? Or folks who are more empathic? Nobody can answer these questions without some degree of bias towards the school they attend. So it's pointless.

I agree with the notion that a lot of it is what you put into it. If you strive to be the "best" you can be in some arena, then you will go far, regardless of the school you attend. I wouldn't pick a med school based on some notion that you will be a better doctor. The power to be a better doctor is in you, not the school. You can always learn more, be better with patients, more polished in your presentations, etc, regardless of where you attend. I would look for someplace which prides itself in something you can build on, but I doubt that narrows it down much.

But no, don't assume that someone with Hopkins in his background is a better doctor based on the strength of his alma mater. He might be better or worse. I can tell you from my prior career that some of the folks from the top law school were the absolute worst lawyers. They were too often big picture types, which is a bad thing to be when the devil is in the details in most deals. And they weren't scrappy enough to push for their clients. They were too Brahman to roll up their sleeves and get in the thick of it, and get their hands dirty, and that cost their clients. I have no doubt there could be parallels in medicine.

 

[JackInTheBox]

Are medical students that come from Hopkins, Mayo, or Penn any better than those who come from less prestigious schools?

Honestly, do you think it matters what medical school you go to?

Yes. If you don't get into one of those three schools, you might as well not even bother going to medical school.

 

[han14tra]

Here's the reason I ask:

Don't jump all over me for saying this, but I honestly study 10x more than the students at my school who have gotten invitations to hopkins, mayo, etc. Tonight, they are out partying. I just got back from the library. They don't seem like they have as much motivation (maybe because it comes so easy to them). All I can is that I wish I was them. But, no. I study 12+ hours a day and get a 25 on the MCAT. I just suck at academic material that isn't medically related.

But, when I interned at a hospital this summer, I went home every day and looked up the things I heard the doctors say but didn't understand. By the end of the summer, I was participating with the medical students (answering the same questions they were). Several doctors about died laughing because I was constantly mistaken for a medical student. In fact, I actually changed the care that one patient received because I recognized when the PA was wrong.

So, I don't think that a 25 on the MCAT says that I won't be a good doctor. I think the fact that I was determined enough to study 10x as much as my peers for it and make many sacrifices along the way shows how hard I'll work for my patients. And, the fact that I looked up everything at the hospital when I didn't have to shows I'll be a good doctor. Because when I'm actually put in charge of someone's care, if I don't know the answer I'll find it.

Therefore, I agree that the medical school you go doesn't completely determine the kind of doctor you are going to be. Some people mentioned that your MCAT score shows your willingness to work hard. Not in my case.

(Getting off my soapbox now) Sorry, I'm just ranting in frustration because I've gotten about 10 rejections out of about 13 MD schools. But, at least I'm going somewhere.

 

[189362]

In my volunteering in the OR there was a trauma pt, who was imediatly cleared for surgery 10 mins after the medics brought him in. They were going in to do an X-lap to check for internal injuries since he was pinned between a wall and a bulldozer. So the trauma surgeon and myself (along with the other ER docs/nurses) are down in the Er and the trauma surgeon wanted me to understand what a pt in shock felt like cool/ pale, clammy. I recognized the pt. had an Left brachial pulse and I had read about this not too long before this day. So I said doc I think he ma be bleeding out due to an aortic dissection. He said verbatum, "hahaha, its possible how do you know that." We ran to the open OR, they cut him open ready anticipating sutures and what they thought a ruptured spleen. Turns out he did have a ruptured spleen, but before that we infused a large amount of FFP and whole blood because he dd have a dissected aorta.

I felt great, and Im still sweating the MCAT if I bomb it with a 20-25 it will be hard to convince anywhere of my desire to practice medicine.

Is that fair? Nope, just how the game is played.

 

[AZFutureDoc]

I would agree with those who say that our grades and MCAT scores have extremely little to do with how good of a doctor we will be. Getting into med school is just a bunch of hoop jumping. Busy work in every aspect and wasting money. If it wasn't easy, everyone would try to be a doctor!

If anyone thinks that anything they've ever done shows an admissions committee how they will talk to patients and build trust, diagnose disease, or anything else that doctors (note my usage of the word doctor, not medical school), then call me out. But you won't be able to while being correct at the same time. Laws prevent you from doing any of these activities, so I doubt you'd disclose them to a med school anyways.

 

[p30doc]

You determine how good of a physician you will be, the medical school you go to determines what kind of resources you will have available to you as a student.

 

[lord_jeebus]

The best medical school is where you will be able to work the hardest while staying sane.

I went to a place known for a rigorous curriculum and high expectations for its 3rd year students. It was tough, but good location and good friends got my through. Now that I'm an intern at an institution that coddles its students (relatively speaking), I can see the difference in the quality of training.

 

[JLC]

Here's the reason I ask:

Don't jump all over me for saying this, but I honestly study 10x more than the students at my school who have gotten invitations to hopkins, mayo, etc. Tonight, they are out partying. I just got back from the library. They don't seem like they have as much motivation (maybe because it comes so easy to them). All I can is that I wish I was them. But, no. I study 12+ hours a day and get a 25 on the MCAT. I just suck at academic material that isn't medically related.

But, when I interned at a hospital this summer, I went home every day and looked up the things I heard the doctors say but didn't understand. By the end of the summer, I was participating with the medical students (answering the same questions they were). Several doctors about died laughing because I was constantly mistaken for a medical student. In fact, I actually changed the care that one patient received because I recognized when the PA was wrong.

So, I don't think that a 25 on the MCAT says that I won't be a good doctor. I think the fact that I was determined enough to study 10x as much as my peers for it and make many sacrifices along the way shows how hard I'll work for my patients. And, the fact that I looked up everything at the hospital when I didn't have to shows I'll be a good doctor. Because when I'm actually put in charge of someone's care, if I don't know the answer I'll find it.

Therefore, I agree that the medical school you go doesn't completely determine the kind of doctor you are going to be. Some people mentioned that your MCAT score shows your willingness to work hard. Not in my case.

(Getting off my soapbox now) Sorry, I'm just ranting in frustration because I've gotten about 10 rejections out of about 13 MD schools. But, at least I'm going somewhere.

Don't hate the system, the application system was created by MD's....so it is very much so important and relevant. That said, don't doubt that your friends studied their butt off to get invitations to schools like hopkins...nobody just parties and gets interviews from there... That said, don't bother worrying about other people, just take care of yourself. MCAT is simply one of the many other important factors in everybody's app, you're still in the process, don't give up. Med schools will def see your dedication and interest in medicine!

 

[GoBuckeyes913]

Are medical students that come from Hopkins, Mayo, or Penn any better than those who come from less prestigious schools (not naming any because I don't want to start a war)?

Honestly, do you think it matters what medical school you go to? After all, the adcom's primary admissions criteria is your grades in classes that have NOTHING to do with medicine and the MCAT, which also has NOTHING to do with medicine.

If you're someone that wants a ton of resources (hospitals, faculty, MONEY to spend on facilities, top-notch research, etc.) available to you as a medical student, then yes, it does matter where you go. Given the perks of education these schools have, they attract the most competitive applicants, so naturally they have to look at numbers. Do these things make it a better school? It depends on who you're asking, because everyone has different opinions of what they are looking for.

If you're someone who doesn't care about those things as much, then it doesn't matter where you go. Regardless, the most important part of med school is YOU... it is what you make of it, how hard you study, and working your buns off on rotations. Just because you don't attend Hopkins, doesn't mean you won't be a rockstar doc

 

[Law2Doc]

So, I don't think that a 25 on the MCAT says that I won't be a good doctor.

A 25 on the MCAT may say that you won't be any kind of doctor, good or otherwise. It is well below the average for matriculants. Not willing to retake it with that score, however may say a lot about your willingness to put in the effort needed on this road. This is going to be a road where you are going to be expected to keep trying to do better.

 

[yaah]

People tend to look askance at the study habits of others while simultaneously inflating their own. The thing is, everyone studies efficiently - for every person who studies 12 hours a day there is someone who studies 3 hours a day yet accomplishes more because they are more efficient. And when you see someone partying all the time, maybe you don't see them studying for even longer periods of time, just at different times of day when you're sleeping or doing something else. And yes, some people just "get it" more than others. A lot of people like to say that they would be the exception to the rule that doing poorly on standardized tests or coursework means you may not be a successful doctor. And maybe some of them would. But a lot of them wouldn't.

People separate themselves from the pack throughout life. MCATs are one way this happens, but there are others. If, for example, there are 100 people in a freshman class who consider med school at some point, half of them will likely abandon the plans when they find the courses boring or unfulfilling or too difficult. Another 10 or so will still keep pressing even though they don't do well academically, and eventually give up. Another group will be weeded out by the MCAT or the application process. Still more will make it to med school before they realize they hate it. Others make it all the way to residency or even beyond before bailing. And people all along the process quit because of unforeseen personal circumstances (new baby, divorce, somebody dies). It is not a trivial task (or an easy task) for anyone to go through the full process to becoming a practicing physician. It takes a lot more than simple desire.

On the original topic though, the med school you go to doesn't determine much of anything. The good students will be good students everywhere. Different schools and locations fit different personalities and work habits better, so certain schools may make you better than others - but this is not going to be a uniform standard. Better students tend to go to the "better" med schools, and since on average the better students tend to remain better students, what seems like correlation is more akin to coincidence.

 

[CCLCMer]

Are medical students that come from Hopkins, Mayo, or Penn any better than those who come from less prestigious schools (not naming any because I don't want to start a war)?

Honestly, do you think it matters what medical school you go to? After all, the adcom's primary admissions criteria is your grades in classes that have NOTHING to do with medicine and the MCAT, which also has NOTHING to do with medicine.

No, as long as it's an American school and it's accredited, all of them are good. Once you get to med school, how well you do depends on how hard you work way more than anything else. But you really should retake the MCAT if you don't get in anywhere this year. 25 is going to get you screened out automatically at a lot of schools, as you're already discovering.