Does this count as clinical research?

[scaredcurved]

Hi guys! So I just started a new job working on patient recruiting for clinical trials on a COVID-Vaccine. My main job responsibilities include reaching out to patients who signed up, explaining the study to them, getting their consent to partake in the study, and set them up for their first appointment.

Soon they’ll teach me to take medical histories over the phone as doing follow up visits.

The owner said he’ll soon transition me into a purely clinical role but I won’t want to force it right now as I first started. Plus I don’t have any research experience so I want to get everything I can.

Would love some opinions, I’m a little hesitant because it’s all over the phone as of now and also I’m mainly getting patients into the system not doing any research or clinical work myself other than collecting data. Thanks

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[scaredcurved]

Bump

 

[LizzyM]

It is clinical research like unpacking boxes and washing glassware is bench research. It is so far down in the ladder it can barely be called research. If it is something you enjoy and you feel that you are learning some skills, keep it up. You may be able to grow in the position and get even better opportunities but it is highly unlikely that you'll ever be at a point where you will be able to propose a hypothesis and test it. That is rather rare in clinical research until you have a much higher level of education and research methods training (data analysis, study design, etc).

 

[scaredcurved]

It is clinical research like unpacking boxes and washing glassware is bench research. It is so far down in the ladder it can barely be called research. If it is something you enjoy and you feel that you are learning some skills, keep it up. You may be able to grow in the position and get even better opportunities but it is highly unlikely that you'll ever be at a point where you will be able to propose a hypothesis and test it. That is rather rare in clinical research until you have a much higher level of education and research methods training (data analysis, study design, etc).

I feel honored to have LizzyM give me advice! From the perspective of a faculty member, do you believe it be worthwhile to put onto my application under the research or clinical experience categories? I am getting patient data, as well as interacting with them but honestly not much more than that. I spoke to the boss and he said that I wouldn’t be able to interpret data or create my own study as you said. He does plan for me to soon move into a clinical role and see the patient myself.

Currently, I can say I’m learning how to interact with patients in a professional manner as well as learning a lot about the processes of clinical research!

My goal was to put this job, and then my future purely clinical job as separate experiences under the different categories of research & clinical experience. Would this be looked down upon?

Thanks!

 

[Goro]

Hi guys! So I just started a new job working on patient recruiting for clinical trials on a COVID-Vaccine. My main job responsibilities include reaching out to patients who signed up, explaining the study to them, getting their consent to partake in the study, and set them up for their first appointment.

Soon they’ll teach me to take medical histories over the phone as doing follow up visits.

The owner said he’ll soon transition me into a purely clinical role but I won’t want to force it right now as I first started. Plus I don’t have any research experience so I want to get everything I can.

Would love some opinions, I’m a little hesitant because it’s all over the phone as of now and also I’m mainly getting patients into the system not doing any research or clinical work myself other than collecting data. Thanks

Nope. This is the logistic of the study, not testing a hypothesis or showing that you have learned something about the scientific method. In essence, you're buying the PCR plates and reagent kits for the experiments.

 

[scaredcurved]

Nope. This is the logistic of the study, not testing a hypothesis or showing that you have learned something about the scientific method. In essence, you're buying the PCR plates and reagent kits for the experiments.

Would it at-least be valid for me to put down as clinical experience since I’m doing patient interactions?

 

[Goro]

Would it at-least be valid for me to put down as clinical experience since I’m doing patient interactions?

Put it down somewhere, but it's not really clinical as they're more research subjects, not patients.

 

[LizzyM]

@Catalystik for advice on how to list this on the application.

 

[candbgirl]

Are you getting paid? Maybe include it as employment nonclinical?

 

[scaredcurved]

Are you getting paid? Maybe include it as employment nonclinical?

Yeah I’m paid but I mainly took the position to gain research/clinical experience so I’d be a bummer to put it as that

 

[LizzyM]

This is the problem with clinical research for undergrads/pre-meds. It is not clinical enough to be clinical and not investigative enough to be research. Employment non-clinical may be the best you can do in terms of category but the description can help flesh out the activities which involve recruiting subjects, informed consent documents and other experiences that are beneficial to have coming into medical school.

 

[Hamburg]

I had a similar question actually, I was deciding between accepting a position recruiting patients, taking surveys, and so forth at a lab in a Medical School, vs. accepting a position at another lab doing bench (Chem) research (where I have the ability to design experiments) in a field that I am somewhat experienced. You would recommend I take the bench position then, in this scenario?

 

[LizzyM]

I had a similar question actually, I was deciding between accepting a position recruiting patients, taking surveys, and so forth at a lab in a Medical School, vs. accepting a position at another lab doing bench (Chem) research (where I have the ability to design experiments) in a field that I am somewhat experienced. You would recommend I take the bench position then, in this scenario?

Do you have bench research experience already? Did you write an undergrad thesis? Have you pubilshed any of your research work? Are you in the top tier of all applicants (e.g. GPA > 3.85 and MCAT >517)? An affirmative answer to all these would suggest that you are a strong candidate for admission to a research powerhouse and you have enough research experience already and branching out to something more along the lines of what medical students often do in terms of clinical research would be a good move.. If you don't have the grades/scores, more bench research isn't going to help as it is a low priority for the type of school that is likely to consider you for admission. If you have the grades/scores but haven't published and this might get you published, that could be an argument for the bench research job.

 

[Catalystik]

I just started a new job working on patient recruiting for clinical trials on a COVID-Vaccine. My main job responsibilities include reaching out to patients who signed up, explaining the study to them, getting their consent to partake in the study, and set them up for their first appointment.

Soon they’ll teach me to take medical histories over the phone as doing follow up visits.

The owner said he’ll soon transition me into a purely clinical role but I won’t want to force it right now as I first started. Plus I don’t have any research experience so I want to get everything I can.

Would love some opinions, I’m a little hesitant because it’s all over the phone as of now and also I’m mainly getting patients into the system not doing any research or clinical work myself other than collecting data.

@Catalystik for advice on how to list this on the application.

The OP is not recruiting "patients," but rather (I presume) reasonably healthy research subjects, with the only interaction being via telephone. Is it research? Sorta. It sounds like an observational study, rather than one with a hypothesis to test, but still, you are fulfilling the tasks of a research assistant and it's a good opportunity to get your feet wet talking to people about health topics and learning about the IRB (be sure to ask to read the paperwork). For med school application purposes, I think you can label it as either Research (non-clinical) or Employment- Not Medical/Clinical.

That said, any experience showing involvement in a helpful activity related to the COVID pandemic will likely be viewed very positively on applications.

 

[scaredcurved]

Thank you all I genuinely appreciate you taking the effort & time to give me advice

 

[LizzyM]

The OP is not recruiting "patients," but rather (I presume) reasonably healthy research subjects, with the only interaction being via telephone. Is it research? Sorta. It sounds like an observational study, rather than one with a hypothesis to test, but still, you are fulfilling the tasks of a research assistant and it's a good opportunity to get your feet wet talking to people about health topics and learning about the IRB (be sure to ask to read the paperwork). For med school application purposes, I think you can label it as either Research (non-clinical) or Employment- Not Medical/Clinical.

That said, any experience showing involvement in a helpful activity related to the COVID pandemic will likely be viewed very positively on applications.

It is a Covid-19 vaccine trial. I'd figure they're going after relatively healthy people but maybe these are long-term primary care patients for whom a solid health record exists and where long term follow-up appears likely (ties to the medical center and the community).

 

[scaredcurved]

It is a Covid-19 vaccine trial. I'd figure they're going after relatively healthy people but maybe these are long-term primary care patients for whom a solid health record exists and where long term follow-up appears likely (ties to the medical center and the community).

Well our study is a 2-year long study where I would be trained to do their regular checkups, take blood work, EKGS, and run various labs. But you're correct in that we're recruiting from healthy subjects who signed up.

 

[LizzyM]

Well our study is a 2-year long study where I would be trained to do their regular checkups, take blood work, EKGS, and run various labs. But you're correct in that we're recruiting from healthy subjects who signed up.

OK. So calling them patients is not acccurate. They are clinical research participants recruited from healthy, free-living community members. It sounds like a randomized trial requiring periodic assessments of immune response, heart health, etc. Sounds interesting. I'd be interested in interviewing you to get the scoop. (that's a good sign.)