Does your school devote adequate time to sexual health and LGBT health?

[touchpause13]

Lets be honest... OP is not about enhancing medical curriculum; OP is about elevating the LGBT community & agenda.

What does this even mean???

I completely disagree

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Psai]

My favorite thing about the choice thing is why on earth would anyone chose to be gay? I've never gotten a good answer for that haha.

Because it's impossible to fathom how a woman's mind works.

"Are you upset?"
-"I'm not upset."
"Yes you are."
-"No."
"Okay I'm going to go watch football with the guys."
5 hours later
-"I WAS SO ANGRY THAT YOU JUST LEFT WHY DIDNT YOU COME BACK WITH FLOWERS I HAD SUCH A TERRIBLE DAY WHY DIDNT YOU ASK ME HOW IT WENT IM SO STRESSED OUT MY BOSS SUCKS AND YOU FORGOT THAT IT WAS OUR ANNIVERSARY AND ..."

yeah

 

[Brain Bucket]

Because it's impossible to fathom how a woman's mind works.

"Are you upset?"
-"I'm not upset."
"Yes you are."
-"No."
"Okay I'm going to go watch football with the guys."
5 hours later
-"I WAS SO ANGRY THAT YOU JUST LEFT WHY DIDNT YOU COME BACK WITH FLOWERS I HAD SUCH A TERRIBLE DAY WHY DIDNT YOU ASK ME HOW IT WENT IM SO STRESSED OUT MY BOSS SUCKS AND YOU FORGOT THAT IT WAS OUR ANNIVERSARY AND ..."

yeah

http://i.imgur.com/fYYanMF.gif
http://i.imgur.com/DoJ03UL.jpg

 

[touchpause13]

Wowwwwww.

 

[Brain Bucket]

You must know we're joking ^^

 

[touchpause13]

I hate all of you

 

[Brain Bucket]

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

I'm sorry did you just compare being gay and wanting to murder someone?

You need to stop honey.

Yeah they did, so what. Analogies are perfectly valid tools to bring to any discussion.....unless it about gay people? Yeah, to hell with analogies, so what if they can help bring clarity to abstract issues, we can use them to act all indignant and offended and someone, somewhere will care about our plight! I'll act like what you're saying is "gays=murders, you're calling us murders!!!!!" AmIright?!

Did you just try to silence someone on the internet?
"Stop"? Stop what? Voicing an opinion? Making a comment? Using an analogy? How about not getting butthurt over non-direct remarks at you and start learning how to deal with other people's opinions.

 

[touchpause13]

Lol strong first post n00b

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Lol strong first post n00b

Bring it.

And do add a sprinkle of "offended". It tastes so sweet.

 

[Porfirio]

What is the deal with the whole using a different pronoun thing? Why should someone get a special pronoun?

 

[Phuhseeshus]

Regardless of whether or not you agree with someone's lifestyle, that doesn't mean you should avoid treating them. I could disagree 100%, but they still have health needs that need to be met.

 

[touchpause13]

Bring it.

And do add a sprinkle of "offended". It tastes so sweet.

I'm flattered that my post irritated you so much that you took the time to make a profile just to respond to me.

What is the deal with the whole using a different pronoun thing? Why should someone get a special pronoun?

I think they were referring to using the preferred pronoun of a trans person (calling a trans woman she for example)

 

[Phuhseeshus]

Speaking of descriptions, it's interesting that a lot of applications for things these days have several varieties for gender like:

[ ] Male
[ ] Female
[ ] Prefer not to say
[ X ] Unknown

Doesn't this beg the question of why ask at all if the applicant doesn't have to answer specifically? I mean, couldn't you also just take a quick peek and find out what you are too?

 

[Cytarabine]

Bring it.

And do add a sprinkle of "offended". It tastes so sweet.

This account's going to last long. I wonder whose alt it is

 

[touchpause13]

This account's going to last long. I wonder whose alt it is

Idk....

I've had a few trolls target me so I'm honestly not even sure

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Because it's impossible to fathom how a woman's mind works.

"Are you upset?"
-"I'm not upset."
"Yes you are."
-"No."
"Okay I'm going to go watch football with the guys."
5 hours later
-"I WAS SO ANGRY THAT YOU JUST LEFT WHY DIDNT YOU COME BACK WITH FLOWERS I HAD SUCH A TERRIBLE DAY WHY DIDNT YOU ASK ME HOW IT WENT IM SO STRESSED OUT MY BOSS SUCKS AND YOU FORGOT THAT IT WAS OUR ANNIVERSARY AND ..."

yeah

Lol some truth to this.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I think based on my descriptions above, sex in general is still a taboo topic for many health care professionals. People still are very uncomfortable discussing it with patients.

lol

I've asked so many people "men, women or both" at this point I'm not even sure I pause during that part of the interview.

 

[Raryn]

What is the deal with the whole using a different pronoun thing? Why should someone get a special pronoun?

If you have the impression that someone identifies as trans of some stripe or another and you're in a situation where sometimes you refer to them in the third person (say, there's also someone else there), it's common courtesy to simply ask them what pronoun they prefer. Not a situation that very commonly comes up, but it's something you should be aware of.

(Similarly, if a patient has beliefs regarding proper ways they want to be addressed, or some kind of religious title, or goodness knows what, I'm happy to call them whatever.)

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Your point is well taken. I also think it's fair to learn about other communities so we can understand them better and also be more accepting of them. Even though it may not change treatment.

We are doctors for all. Understanding groups of people, especially ones that are marginalized can make us better people and better doctors.

While a nice idea, in practice it is quite impractical. Do you have any idea how many different cultures, for lack of a better word, there are in this country? In one of my BS classes in med school, we went over all the ones in my state alone - 15 distinct cultural groups. How much pathology are you willing to sacrifice to learn the likely dozens of cultures in the country as a whole?

 

[touchpause13]

While a nice idea, in practice it is quite impractical. Do you have any idea how many different cultures, for lack of a better word, there are in this country? In one of my BS classes in med school, we went over all the ones in my state alone - 15 distinct cultural groups. How much pathology are you willing to sacrifice to learn the likely dozens of cultures in the country as a whole?

That's why I like mdeasts approach. There is no need to add an extra class (unless it's an optional thing) but how hard would it be to throw a LGBTQ standardized patient in the mix? Or mention treatment for trans people in endocrinology, If there is a lecture on sexual health bring up LGBTQ patients.

I think it would be great to have some optional resources as well if people are interested, and I think you can address the health needs of LGBTQ people without over burdening medical students

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

That's why I like mdeasts approach. There is no need to add an extra class (unless it's an optional thing) but how hard would it be to throw a LGBTQ standardized patient in the mix? Or mention treatment for trans people in endocrinology, If there is a lecture on sexual health bring up LGBTQ patients.

I think it would be great to have some optional resources as well if people are interested, and I think you can address the health needs of LGBTQ people without over burdening medical students

Everyone I've ever talked to had at least one LGBT standardized patient in their sexual history taking training.

I think teaching people how to treat transgendered patients, from an endocrine standpoint, is incredibly low yield. Make it an extra module, not tested if you must.

 

[touchpause13]

Everyone I've ever talked to had at least one LGBT standardized patient in their sexual history taking training.

I think teaching people how to treat transgendered patients, from an endocrine standpoint, is incredibly low yield. Make it an extra module, not tested if you must.

Makes sense. Obviously, I haven't started school yet so I don't have a lot to go off of in regards to What it's actually like.

My only perspective is as a patient and how I wish my physicians didn't assume i was straight.

 

[Phuhseeshus]

Makes sense. Obviously, I haven't started school yet so I don't have a lot to go off of in regards to What it's actually like.

My only perspective is as a patient and how I wish my physicians didn't assume i was straight.

Just a curious question - if you're gay, are you happy with where you're at right now? I read an article at some point in time from someone who wasn't happy with where he was at as a gay man, so was in the process of getting therapy for it - and said that he was slowly leaving the gay lifestyle, and even his attractions were changing. He claimed that there isn't really such a thing as gay pride. He says, "It's not really pride, it's more defiance - defiance against a system of masculinity they feel hopelessly separated from. They feel inferior and unable to integrate into that role." He asserted that a majority of homosexual men wish they could fit in with their heterosexual male counterparts, but they feel unsure how or emotionally alienated/afraid of that world. He also points out that many he knew were led to their gay lifestyles because of deficiencies in childhood that influenced them to same sex attraction when adolescence arrived (ex: alienation from male peers, lacking father figure, etc.).

Is this true? Supposedly, statistics claim that gay men have one of the highest suicide rates. Perhaps part of the problem is they can't rationally discuss whatever their issues are with normal healthcare providers (be it a doctor, therapist, psychiatrist, or even clergyman). If this is true, it seems like there should be some way at helping them integrate into what is seen as the "masculine" society. If that's what they really want, to feel loved and accepted by their fellow men, it would be interesting if healthcare providers could assist with that, and if the general populace could help them as well.

I wouldn't normally bring this up, but I'd like to hear the perspective of someone who is gay and can weigh in on mental health from that perspective. If you'd rather PM me, that's fine as well.

 

[PhysioMD]

 

[RoseHelene]

I mean....if a trans person walked into my clinic, I wouldn't even know where to begin in regards to managing hormonal therapy for a transitioning individual...I don't even know who to call to do a phone consult on? D:

Hormone therapy itself is actually pretty easy. Since it does, though, shift over time with data, I think your best bet is to visit the WPATH website - they're the World Professional Association for Transgender Health. They produce a Standards of Care which not only gives good info on transgenderism in general, but gives treatment guidelines. There are 4-5 different treatment and primary care protocols running around in addition (including one by The Endocrine Society), but my personal favorite is UCSF's: http://transhealth.ucsf.edu/trans?page=protocol-00-00

If you're in a bind, though, and need someone to consult with locally try calling your local Diversity Center and ask who they're all going to see, and give that doc a call. And I'm not kidding, Google is your friend here. All the trans-friendly doctors I've met and worked with are very happy to spread their knowledge and experience.

The summary is: For trans women, give estradiol and an antiandrogen (spironolactone or cyproterone acetate, depending on your country). 2mg estradiol and 100mg spironolactone, both po bid, is a "standard" dose. Drop the antiandrogen after orchiectomy or vaginoplasty. For trans men, IM testosterone, usually around 1/2 cc weekly. There are oodles of variations on these (some trans women request progesterone or IM estrogens, for example), but that's your "standard". Psychotherapy is highly recommended but not required.

For surgeons, chances are your patients are going to have some inkling since there's a lot of attitude of "well, our doctors don't know so we need to do our research ourselves!" in the community. Current high-profile US surgeons include: Dr. Marci Bowers, Dr Curtis Crane, Dr Toby Meltzer, Dr. Christine McGinnes, Dr. Osterhout. Each has their own specialty and surgeries that they do (e.g., Dr. Crane does phalloplasty but most others don't, Dr. Osterhout literally wrote the book on facial feminization surgery but as far as I know doesn't do genital or top surgery....)

What is the deal with the whole using a different pronoun thing? Why should someone get a special pronoun?

It's actually really, really rare. Anecdotally, I think I've seen maybe 1 trans person in a 100 strongly prefer a pronoun other than she or he. And most trans people who do prefer a pronoun other than s/he prefer "they", but are kinda okay with s/he.

So... why a different pronoun? There is no really good gender-neutral pronoun in English. "They" as a singular sounds and feels awkward, and "it" is dehumanizing. But there are people who identify as gender neutral, or androgynous, or really any permutation that you can imagine. They're trying to find a pronoun that works in English, that doesn't erase who they are.

But most are OK with she, he or they. When in doubt of which pronoun to use, default to "they" until you can ask. Once you know a preferred pronoun, use it! And apologize if you misgender someone.

Honestly - perfection is not necessary. A willingness to learn and being willing to admit you made a mistake and apologize goes so, so far with this community.

I think teaching people how to treat transgendered patients, from an endocrine standpoint, is incredibly low yield. Make it an extra module, not tested if you must.

Question: does your endocrine module teach disorders of sex development?

Once you understand what "transgender" means, it takes maybe an hour to learn the health care angle. It's not rocket science. The drugs involved are all used in different contexts and have been around for ages. The surgeries are less so, but that's what a referral is for.

 

[PhysioMD]

 

[touchpause13]

Just a curious question - if you're gay, are you happy with where you're at right now? I read an article at some point in time from someone who wasn't happy with where he was at as a gay man, so was in the process of getting therapy for it - and said that he was slowly leaving the gay lifestyle, and even his attractions were changing. He claimed that there isn't really such a thing as gay pride. He says, "It's not really pride, it's more defiance - defiance against a system of masculinity they feel hopelessly separated from. They feel inferior and unable to integrate into that role." He asserted that a majority of homosexual men wish they could fit in with their heterosexual male counterparts, but they feel unsure how or emotionally alienated/afraid of that world. He also points out that many he knew were led to their gay lifestyles because of deficiencies in childhood that influenced them to same sex attraction when adolescence arrived (ex: alienation from male peers, lacking father figure, etc.).

Is this true? Supposedly, statistics claim that gay men have one of the highest suicide rates. Perhaps part of the problem is they can't rationally discuss whatever their issues are with normal healthcare providers (be it a doctor, therapist, psychiatrist, or even clergyman). If this is true, it seems like there should be some way at helping them integrate into what is seen as the "masculine" society. If that's what they really want, to feel loved and accepted by their fellow men, it would be interesting if healthcare providers could assist with that, and if the general populace could help them as well.

I wouldn't normally bring this up, but I'd like to hear the perspective of someone who is gay and can weigh in on mental health from that perspective. If you'd rather PM me, that's fine as well.

Wow. Okay. Um well I'm queer. I'm a female and I'm attracted mostly to women, but also to transmen and I'm in a long term relationship with a biological, heterosexual man. Yes I am rather feminine, I wear dresses and usually only other LGBTQ people can clock me as queer. I'm very happy with myself. I never felt unfilled when my primary partner was a woman or anything like that. I've never had any disfunction related to my sexuality, aside from being treated poorly because of it.

I believe that the primary reason for mental health issues in the community have to do with discrimination against gay people and being shunned from your family and friends. It took a long time for my family to accept me and I was kicked out of my house a few times as a teen for having a girlfriend.

Also, I don't really believe the case you describ for a second. All medical and psychological organizations in this country have stated that attempting to change someone's sexual orientation is harmful to that person. While we don't know the exact reason behind someone's sexual attractions, it's not because of some past trauma or not having a good father figure. That's bull****.

 

[PhysioMD]

 

[touchpause13]

I'm honestly really upset right now. I haven't seen this much ignorance in a long time.

 

[PhysioMD]

 

[PhysioMD]

 

[Brain Bucket]

It's actually really, really rare. Anecdotally, I think I've seen maybe 1 trans person in a 100 strongly prefer a pronoun other than she or he. And most trans people who do prefer a pronoun other than s/he prefer "they", but are kinda okay with s/he.

So... why a different pronoun? There is no really good gender-neutral pronoun in English. "They" as a singular sounds and feels awkward, and "it" is dehumanizing. But there are people who identify as gender neutral, or androgynous, or really any permutation that you can imagine. They're trying to find a pronoun that works in English, that doesn't erase who they are.

But most are OK with she, he or they. When in doubt of which pronoun to use, default to "they" until you can ask. Once you know a preferred pronoun, use it! And apologize if you misgender someone.

Honestly - perfection is not necessary. A willingness to learn and being willing to admit you made a mistake and apologize goes so, so far with this community.

I'm a little late to the party. Was busy with blocks during the whole Media hoo-ha. I think in terms of healthcare he, she, and they are perfectly acceptable. I agree that we must do all we can to build rapport with our patients, but giving pronouns so much importance appears to be a colossal waste of everyone's time - time that could be better spent in understanding the intricacies of their healthcare.

Again, I'm all for creating rapport and trust, but apologizing for using an incorrect pronoun...I would have no issue with feeling badly for them being unhappy about it (not apologizing) and expressing it, but apologizing for using a non-preferred pronoun of which I had no previous knowledge seems dishonest and I would privately judge the person right away.

Time for an anecdote: As a pre-teen I spoke better than most adults and sometimes when I called for reservations for my parents etc. the person would assume I was a grown woman with a deep voice. Did I find it annoying? Sure. Was it a reasonable mistake? Yes. Did it require an apology or even merit discussion? - No.

 

[touchpause13]

I just don't associate with people who are like that IRL so I'm not used to seeing those types of things

 

[DermViser]

Where did I say we insert a whole new subcurriculum on the topic? I think someone above wrote quite well how it comes down to just mentioning it here and there where it applies, like when talking about cervical cancer stats etc and bringing up the issue.

Many prominent health care centres ackonwledge the fact, one example is the Mayo clinic
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/mens-health/in-depth/health-issues-for-gay-men/art-20047107


I can see how you might be upset that I'm asking you to learn a little bit more, perhaps a little bit outside your personal comforts, but again I'm not asking you to memorize a textbook; but hey I guess reading an extra stat or an extra slide on the topic is challenging for some. In all honesty, based on the language used throughout your attacks on my posts, I will conclude that you just have a personal issue with this topic, I don't really care and am not bothered if you dislike this topic. I mean just based on the bolded statements in your comment above, you are the type who thinks that anything LGBT related is soem political ploy or agenda of some sort. I'm sorry for you if you feel this way. We are not going to change personal beliefs and attitudes.

However, if you scroll way up, my original post was asking which (if any) schools address the issue, I was not asking we band together and over-throw the medical curriculum. If your school does not address the issue, you have no need to answer my post. If you don't care for the issue, you could have said so or just skipped this thread. However, you keep coming back to this topic to bash it ... why is that? honestly, if it doesn't apply to you, if you have no interest in this area, skip past it; I regularly skip past and ignore threads that don't pertain to my interests.

You don't get it (as you haven't been in med school yet). The curriculum of medical school is ALREADY SO PACKED AS IT IS. In order to give time to one thing, you have to take out or shorten something else. Like I said, I don't have a problem with LGBTs. I said, in my prior posts, the key is to treat them with dignity LIKE ALL OTHER HUMAN BEINGS, and address their health concerns. There is absolutely no need to somehow make them as some separate segment in our society, as if they
somehow have diseases that heterosexuals don't get. Last I heard, homosexuals get cancer, heart disease, heart attacks and STIs just like heterosexuals.

 

[PhysioMD]

-

 

[PhysioMD]

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Question: does your endocrine module teach disorders of sex development?

Once you understand what "transgender" means, it takes maybe an hour to learn the health care angle. It's not rocket science. The drugs involved are all used in different contexts and have been around for ages. The surgeries are less so, but that's what a referral is for.

Well sure, if you do it like that. Say on the pharm slide about Aldactone add 1 bullet point - "Also for blocking testosterone in transgendered patients" Similar for the slides about estrogen and testosterone preparations.

I guess I was just objecting to the idea of teaching enough so that every medical school graduate was qualified to treat transgendered patients which I now realize wasn't what you were getting it.

 

[RoseHelene]

Again, I'm all for creating rapport and trust, but apologizing for using an incorrect pronoun...I would have no issue with feeling badly for them being unhappy about it (not apologizing) and expressing it, but apologizing for using a non-preferred pronoun of which I had no previous knowledge seems dishonest and I would privately judge the person right away.

Sounds like I miscommunicated - sorry! I meant apologizing for using the incorrect pronoun after a preferred pronoun has already been disclosed. So if you're talking to a pre-hormones trans woman who asks you to say "she", I think it's appropriate to apologize if you say "he" without intent. It lets the patient know you didn't intend to use that pronoun (e.g., using it to cause psychological harm, which happens) and that you're aware you made an error and regret any harm you did do. The apology only has to be "I'm sorry" after all - no more than you'd do for a cis person you misgendered.

The value of pronouns is a big overinflated. It *is* important in terms of patient rapport and trust. It doesn't require a 10 minute conversation.

What we do in the clinic I volunteer in is put a little alert in the EMR to tell you which pronoun to use when the pt is trans. For most, it's unnecessary - their gender marker is accurate and they "pass". But for those who aren't out, or who don't "pass", or whose paperwork hasn't caught up, it's really useful and the validation makes a huge difference to the patient.

I guess I was just objecting to the idea of teaching enough so that every medical school graduate was qualified to treat transgendered patients which I now realize wasn't what you were getting it.

Nah. I think every physician should know enough to be respectful and know where to look for more info if need be. Presenting all the material about treatment in medical school is one way of doing that - some is bound to stick, right? Right??

If you shoved all medical trans care into absolute bare minimum slides it'd be... 10 slides? Ish? 2 for hormones, 2 for screenings and STI type info, 1 slide each for trans-specific surgeries (vaginoplasty, metoidioplasty, phalloplasty, facial feminization), and 2 for slack and things I'm forgetting. I could spend a couple hours rambling on but that's just 'cause I love gender and sexual minority health.

Where most people spend hourrrrs is on "this is what trans is" because so, so many people have trouble wrapping their heads around it.

hey I wonder if med schools actually mention ANY LGBT health concerns at all

There was a study a few years back that found that med schools average 4 hours of LGBT content in all 4 years? I think? Google could probably pull it up for you.

 

[Brain Bucket]

Sounds like I miscommunicated - sorry!

You sure you're not Canadian? Sorry I misunderstood

 

[RoseHelene]

You sure you're not Canadian? Sorry I misunderstood

Haha!

Californian. Is that close enough?

 

[Phuhseeshus]

Wow you got me.

Funny how anytime anything is pro LGBT there is that one left over bigot who still thinks it's about a political agenda...to do what? break into your house and turn your kids gay? that's exactly what it is. LGBTs just want to fly rainbow flags everywhere and turn all humans gay.

You know if this was 1940, I could have opened a thread stating "Does your medical school allow black students??" and written "I'd like to know if black students are allowed at your school because recently some schools have been pushing this BS PC agenda to equalize races in medical schools. I sure as heck don't want to be in class with some N***** who just got in because of his "victim" attitude". Would have been a normal comment to make back in the day. Funny how the language changed yet people still see no similarity.

OK now that's extremely unfair. People have religious problems with gay activity. Being black isn't a religious issue. The thing is, if people believe acting out on homosexuality is a sin, they should either:

A. Put adulterers, fornicators, drunks, gamblers, and whatever else they consider to be sin under the same scrutiny (often these sins are blown off)

or

B. Treat gays the same way they treat other sinners - which should be to share the gospel of Jesus with them, and warn them. It's unfair to elevate homosexual actions (I'm NOT talking about attraction) above other sins; the Bible is pretty clear that ALL sexual activity outside of marriage - straight or gay - is wrong, and that marriage is between a man and woman.

If someone is a Christian, I can understand the criticism for homosexual activity. And I think they have the right to warn people about the consequences of their sin. But afterwards is where things go badly. You can still disagree with someone, and tell them what is wrong, and show them love. That's the problem is that gays are shunned and hated, not even given a chance for consideration by those that oppose them. <---- THAT is bigotry. Disagreeing is not.

I want you to really consider this: DISAGREEING with someone does NOT make you a bigot. Before you decide to bite my head off and call me intolerant, please don't be intolerant of others' religious beliefs. Gays should be treated the same as others, but that doesn't mean people that disagree should have to change their religious views for the sake of others' personal choices.

Like I said before:

Regardless of whether or not you agree with someone's lifestyle, that doesn't mean you should avoid treating them. I could disagree 100%, but they still have health needs that need to be met.

I'd also like to mention, in regards to this quote below, it isn't a false case. Now, whether or not the man really did "change" at all is up for debate (none of us can get into his head), but that is a true case. I'd also like to mention that a quick google search will show you that your statement isn't true - especially not the part about it being harmful; the outcomes of such therapies are generally highly dependent on the individual being treated. Sure, it can be harmful, but so can any other therapy. By the same token, many individuals believe it to be helpful. Also, saying that it's not because of some past trauma or bad father is an emotional bias. Research on whether or not homosexuality is more "nature" or "nurture" still hasn't made much headway. But think about it - if it's genetic, gay individuals do not usually reproduce, and the trait wouldn't be passed down. If it's a latent gene, what is activating it?

Also, I don't really believe the case you describ for a second. All medical and psychological organizations in this country have stated that attempting to change someone's sexual orientation is harmful to that person. While we don't know the exact reason behind someone's sexual attractions, it's not because of some past trauma or not having a good father figure. That's bullcrap.

Again, I'd like to preface all of this in saying that nobody at all has the right to treat gays as less than humans. A person is allowed to disagree with the gay lifestyle, and still fully capable of treating gays as equals.

 

[dyspareunia]

I'm flattered that my post irritated you so much that you took the time to make a profile just to respond to me.



I think they were referring to using the preferred pronoun of a trans person (calling a trans woman she for example)

Is it poor form to call a trans woman a she?

 

[@JackShephard]

While a nice idea, in practice it is quite impractical. Do you have any idea how many different cultures, for lack of a better word, there are in this country? In one of my BS classes in med school, we went over all the ones in my state alone - 15 distinct cultural groups. How much pathology are you willing to sacrifice to learn the likely dozens of cultures in the country as a whole?

First of all, I would be willing to sacrifice A LOT of pathology. I can't remember how many cell surface markers, translocations, and genes that I learned about that have yet to be mentioned in an entire clinical year.

With that said, we can't learn about everyone but we can learn about some people.

Honestly, I think the preclinical sciences are way overblown (not sure if you have a bunch of PhDs teaching you also). I can guarantee that if my class retook our preclinical exams today, more than half would fail the tests. So much minutia. Step 1 has minutia and we went levels beyond that.

 

[PhysioMD]

 

[@JackShephard]

Is it poor form to call a trans woman a she?

I thought that was the right thing to do.

 

[RoseHelene]

Is it poor form to call a trans woman a she?

Definition time! Yee! *dance*

Trans women are natal males (i.e., assigned male at birth) who identify as women. Used to be called "male-to-female transsexual" - that language still floats around in the literature but is considered offensive. Use female pronouns unless otherwise requested.

Trans men are natal females (i.e., assigned female at birth) who identify as men. Used to be called "female-to-male transsexual". Use male pronouns unless otherwise requested.

It is kinda poor form to ask the question that way, though (EDIT: I mean this in a tone of "FYI", not to bash you over the head). Does it make sense to ask "Is it poor form to call a woman a she?" or "Is it poor form to call a man a he?".

In social situations, think of trans women as women and trans men as men.

 

[RoseHelene]

Also just a gentle reminder to everyone - let's keep it civil here! We're all (future?) colleagues and peers in this together, for the betterment of our communities and patients. We all have a lot to learn from each other, so let's not be mean and spiteful and close off avenues for sharing, learning and bonding.

 

[dyspareunia]

Definition time! Yee! *dance*

Trans women are natal males (i.e., assigned male at birth) who identify as women. Used to be called "male-to-female transsexual" - that language still floats around in the literature but is considered offensive. Use female pronouns unless otherwise requested.

Trans men are natal females (i.e., assigned female at birth) who identify as men. Used to be called "female-to-male transsexual". Use male pronouns unless otherwise requested.

It is kinda poor form to ask the question that way, though. Does it make sense to ask "Is it poor form to call a woman a she?" or "Is it poor form to call a man a he?". In social situations, think of trans women as women and trans men as men.

Do trans women look like women? Tbh I am not going to go out of my way to figure all this out. I'm going to call it like I see it (he or she) and if the person has a problem they'll just have to let me know.

Edit: So I just did some googling..

Transvestite should not be confused with transgender or transsexual (“person who lives as a member of a sex different from their birth sex”). Transvestites generally have less or no desire to change their sex; they simply enjoy being able to cross-dress from time to time.

The term should also not be confused with drag queen (“male who wears women’s clothing for public performance”); that term is specifically for performer

Are you kidding me?

 

[RoseHelene]

Do trans women look like women?

After hormone therapy, YES!

Lynn Conway's put together a wonderful gallery of many many trans people who are "out", and who transitioned in different eras and at many different ages. Take a look if you want: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSsuccesses.html

Or take a look through wikipedia's list...: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transgender_people

And there's strong evidence that the brains of trans women look like the brains of women in sex dimorphic areas, regardless of hormone milieu. Highly recommend you check out this groundbreaking study if you're curious about that research: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10843193 It's one of my favorites in that field - I wrote up a summary of some of the research a few years ago. Let me know if you're interested in reading it and I'll put the link up here. There's genetic evidence too, though I'm not as well versed in it.