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[deleted729041]

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[SpoiledMilk]

Time. Use the next few years to shore up your ECs and stay away from violating the law again by staying away from "bad" boys.

Medical schools are not going anywhere. The main issue is whether the state's medical licensing board will grant you a license to practice. You have to start calling the state that you want to practice in's medical board to find out...

 

[ndafife]

AMCAS asks for convictions. Some individual schools may ask about charges/arrests, but given that charges were dismissed against you and you were never convicted of anything then there isn't an issue. Run a background check on yourself if it will give you peace of mind, but an arrest without conviction really means 0 in the grand scheme of things.

 

[ndafife]

Time. Use the next few years to shore up your ECs and stay away from violating the law again by staying away from "bad" boys.

Medical schools are not going anywhere. The main issue is whether the state's medical licensing board will grant you a license to practice. You have to start calling the state that you want to practice in's medical board to find out...

No state medical board is going to deny someone a license for an arrest that did not result in any sort of conviction.

 

[drmantistobbogan]

When you submit your primary application on AMCAS, you can request a copy of your Certiphi background check. AMCAS only asks about misdemeanor and felony convictions, not charges, so you're safe there. If your charges do not show up on the background check, you're in the clear.

 

[deleted804295]

Really if this happened with 2 different boyfriends and the charges were on you and not them- I have a hard time believing you're the victim here.

 

[deleted804295]

No state medical board is going to deny someone a license for an arrest that did not result in any sort of conviction.

Reread what she wrote. She clearly indicated that for the first charge records were sealed.

This yells expungement to me which also indicates she was charged and convicted of a crime. OP is hiding a lot of details.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Reread what she wrote. She clearly indicated that for the first charge records were sealed.
This yells expungement to me which also indicates she was charged and convicted of a crime. OP is hiding a lot of details.

A non-felonious arrest and charge may be dismissed for a 1st time offender after receipt of deferred adjudication and successful completion of probation. Thus the defendant can legally say they have never been convicted and after a certain period, the records can be sealed in the interest of justice upon a motion to the same court.

Legally, there is a huge difference between motion for nondisclosure (records are sealed but still exist and can be accessed by medical boards, court order, etc., but not by a regular CBC) and expungement (everything, including the arrest and all records are erased; it's as if the whole incident never happened).

 

[deleted729041]

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[Osminog]

Really if this happened with 2 different boyfriends and the charges were on you and not them- I have a hard time believing you're the victim here.

Whether you believe OP's story isn't relevant to the question being asked. The question is, will her past arrests disadvantage her in the medical school admissions process?

Reread what she wrote. She clearly indicated that for the first charge records were sealed.

This yells expungement to me which also indicates she was charged and convicted of a crime. OP is hiding a lot of details.

In many states, court records can be sealed after the dismissal of a charge. Also, record sealing and expungement are two different things (though they're related).

 

[deleted729041]

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[deleted804295]

A non-felonious arrest and charge may be dismissed for a 1st time offender after receipt of deferred adjudication and successful completion of probation. Thus the defendant can legally say they have never been convicted and after a certain period, the records can be sealed in the interest of justice upon a motion to the same court.

Legally, there is a huge difference between motion for nondisclosure (records are sealed but still exist and can be accessed by medical boards, court order, etc., but not by a regular CBC) and expungement (everything, including the arrest and all records are erased; it's as if the whole incident never happened).

Thanks for the clarification. So the question comes down to whether non-disclosure was obtained or an expungement. This will be the deciding factor of whether or not this will affect her chances of getting into Medical school.

 

[darkjedi]

If you truly want a dose of reality, it looks like your shot at medical school is unfortunately long, at least in the near future. Not because of this situation which may or may not impact your chances based on what your background check ultimately returns, but what you indicated in your prior post of likely failing orgo and your overall GPA. I'm not sure if you took your MCAT yet, but anything less than something in like the 95th percentile makes your chances very low right now.

 

[deleted729041]

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[SpoiledMilk]

Thanks for the clarification. So the question comes down to whether non-disclosure was obtained or an expungement. This will be the deciding factor of whether or not this will affect her chances of getting into Medical school.

Practically, both a non-disclosure and expungement have the same effect as it relates to medical school admissions on the primary application. Because both won't/shouldn't show up on a CBC, then the applicant can honestly not disclose it in the primary AAMC application.

However, some schools have secondaries that ask for arrests. If defendant has their case sealed because of a nondisclosure, they must honestly answer this question with an affirmative. If defendant has their case expunged, they can honestly answer in the negative.

 

[deleted804295]

I do appreciate the hard dose of reality. Unfortunately, I believe the two abusive relationships I was involved in (which I can now reflect upon as a more "objective" though obviously still not entirely so observer, and can now recognize that both men were controlling, manipulative, and abusive) played a large role in my academic performance. I'm planning on enrolling in an SMP and attaining excellent grades (with an excellent MCAT), and staying away from abusive people by being highly cautious going forward.

I think we can be honest here because you did ask for advice.

1. Getting "excellent grades" isn't cookie cutter.
2. If anyone could get an excellent MCAT simply by believing they could, averages for matriculants would be a lot higher.
3. Med schools can potentially see a charge on your part depending on whether your files had non-disclosure or they were expunged.
4. This happened with 2 different men
5. By God, if you were abused I am sorry and I pray for harsh sentences on these men but domestic abuse towards women is taken seriously in the United States, if they were in the wrong they would be the ones charged right now, not you.

Again, if you were abused I wish justice on these men and the best for you. I also wish if you were truly abused that you make clearer judgements when choosing partners and potentially quitting the dating scene for the time being.

 

[ndafife]

Reread what she wrote. She clearly indicated that for the first charge records were sealed.

This yells expungement to me which also indicates she was charged and convicted of a crime. OP is hiding a lot of details.

In both cases, all charges were dismissed.

Sound like charges were dismissed and no conviction occurred.

 

[jazzmetal]

If defendant has their case expunged, they can honestly answer in the negative.

I believe this actually varies by state.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

I believe this actually varies by state.

I'm not familiar with all the different states' laws, but generally, non-disclosures may vary by states.

But an expungement legally means the whole incident didn't happen (from arrest onward, all records ordered destroyed by the court), so I don't believe the practical effect after getting a court to approve it will vary by state. However, the elements to secure an expungement might vary by state.

 

[Dantes]

Doesn't sound reportable to AMCAS and if a background check comes back clean I think this won't be an issue at all surprisingly.

 

[Turkishking]

Whether you believe OP's story isn't relevant to the question being asked. The question is, will her past arrests disadvantage her in the medical school admissions process?



In many states, court records can be sealed after the dismissal of a charge. Also, record sealing and expungement are two different things (though they're related).

Who are you?

 

[Osminog]

Who are you?

A pre-med. I'm trying to become the first cephalopod in America to be accepted into medical school. What is it to you?

 

[deleted804295]

A pre-med. I'm trying to become the first cephalopod in America to be accepted into medical school. What is it to you?

Seemed like a sockpuppet account with the way you directed me in the right direction. Just doesn't seem like something a new member would do.

 

[Osminog]

Seemed like a sockpuppet account with the way you directed me in the right direction. Just doesn't seem like something a new member would do.

I guess I'm just precocious.

 

[deleted729041]

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[deleted729041]

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[deleted729041]

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[dr_kateb]

Alright Hope Solo the main thing I’m catching on to is that you need to make better choices on boyfriends.

 

[jazzmetal]

I'm not familiar with all the different states' laws, but generally, non-disclosures may vary by states.

But an expungement legally means the whole incident didn't happen (from arrest onward, all records ordered destroyed by the court), so I don't believe the practical effect after getting a court to approve it will vary by state. However, the elements to secure an expungement might vary by state.

Yep, I'm familiar with the concept of expungement. Maybe we're having a semantic disconnect, but it's my understanding that expungement (sometimes called "post conviction dismissal") is a matter of state law*, and that not all states have enacted expungement laws; also, within a given state that does allow for expungement, not all crimes are eligible for expungement. And as you note, the requirements for securing an expungement will vary by state and crime.

Of course not a definitive source, Wikipedia has some overviews:
Expungement - Wikipedia
Expungement in the United States - Wikipedia

What this can mean for a med school applicant: even though you might not have to disclose an expunged conviction on your AMCAS primary, you might have to disclose it in a secondary depending on the law of that school's state, i.e., there are two levels of analysis: (1) whether your crime is from a state that allows for expungment, and (2) whether you are applying to a school in a state that requires disclosure of even expunged convictions (likely because that state itself does not allow expungements). Down the line, certain licensing bodies, including medical boards, will require you to disclose even expunged convictions. If the criminal record would prevent you from being licensed by a medical board, a adcom is not likely to overlook it either. Otherwise, it's a factor for the adcoms to assess and we all know that each adcom is different.

*The only way to expunge a record on a federal level would be a presidential pardon.

TL;DR - I'd research the laws of your state and the states of the schools you're interested in.

 

[jazzmetal]

What input does anyone have on how I should go about explaining these?

I would stay as factual as possible: dates, charges, a brief statement of facts and circumstances, and sentencing/dismissal. Try not to make excuses, even if you feel you were in the right. Then offer evidence of changes you have made in your life that will keep you from being in this situation again. Ask some trusted advisors to read your explanation for tone. Promise them that you will take all their suggestions to heart without debate; say thank you and then take time to yourself to digest their feedback. Try not to change anyone's mind about what you wrote, but it's fair to ask them for clarification and to run a rewrite past them to ask if it changes their perception of your story. You are trying to find out how your record is coming across to other people and to use that feedback to make as persuasive a case as you can that your actions in the past do not make you a risk to the school now.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

I know I should ask an attorney about this, and I will, but since the first case ended in dismissal and expungement, does that mean I then can honestly answer that I've never been arrested (in this specific case)?

(2) whether you are applying to a school in a state that requires disclosure of even expunged convictions (likely because that state itself does not allow expungements).

I am going to try to kill two birds with one stone here.

Obviously OP, you will need to verify this info with a license attorney in your state. But to answer your question, since your state allows for an expungement (meaning that the incident never happened in the first place), you can honestly answer that you have never been arrested even in another state that does not allow for expungement because of the following:

1st) The very legal definition of expungement means that it never happened. So it would be an oxymoron to admit something on a secondary that the law says didn't happen.

2nd) As to Jazzmetal, a state that does not allow for expungements means that particular state has expressly indicated in a written law that it does not allow for a suspect convicted of a crime within its borders to have an expungement process. That does not mean that it will not recognize in good faith and honor the expungement proceedings of another state under the principle of reciprocity. One of the best examples of reciprocity is having a drivers license in North Dakota and being able to go to Florida for vacation and legally drive in Florida. And vice versa.

Therefore, since OP has a legal expungement in her state, regardless of what state the medical school she applies to, she can honestly not reveal that she has been arrested because her state's law says the arrest and everything associated with it did not happen.

To the best of my knowledge and I may be wrong, a state's medical board may only require disclosure of sealed convictions, but will not require disclosure of expunged convictions because legally, the incident never happened.

 

[jazzmetal]

I am going to try to kill two birds with one stone here.

Obviously OP, you will need to verify this info with a license attorney in your state. But to answer your question, since your state allows for an expungement (meaning that the incident never happened in the first place), you can honestly answer that you have never been arrested even in another state that does not allow for expungement because of the following:

1st) The very legal definition of expungement means that it never happened. So it would be an oxymoron to admit something on a secondary that the law says didn't happen.

2nd) As to Jazzmetal, a state that does not allow for expungements means that particular state has expressly indicated in a written law that it does not allow for a suspect convicted of a crime within its borders to have an expungement process. That does not mean that it will not recognize in good faith and honor the expungement proceedings of another state under the principle of reciprocity. One of the best examples of reciprocity is having a drivers license in North Dakota and being able to go to Florida for vacation and legally drive in Florida. And vice versa.

Therefore, since OP has a legal expungement in her state, regardless of what state the medical school she applies to, she can honestly not reveal that she has been arrested because her state's law says the arrest and everything associated with it did not happen.

To the best of my knowledge and I may be wrong, a state's medical board may only require disclosure of sealed convictions, but will not require disclosure of expunged convictions because legally, the incident never happened.

All I can tell you is that you may find otherwise when you are completing a secondary, and that you certainly will be required to disclose even expunged convictions to a medical board. There was at least one school/state I came across this year that stated explicitly that all convictions needed to be disclosed whether or not expunged in the state of conviction. I can't remember which one though, sorry! In any case, OP, it's not something we're going to resolve for you on SDN so it's good that you are planning to talk to an attorney with expertise in this area. Best wishes to you!

 

[mistafab]

What is going on in your life? I hope you are figuring out things and getting on the right path. No one deserves abuse. You need to get your life together before worrying about whether it is going to affect you med school options or not.

I really really hope you figure things out. That should be priority number 1 right now. Get in the right place before you start worrying about med school.

 

[Robin-jay]

@LizzyM

 

[Robin-jay]

Basically, have these two men ended any chance for my admission to medical school/becoming a physician? I would welcome input from anyone, but I would really highly value input from med school adcoms.

Thank you for reading.

EDIT: I have checked with my attorney and actually, in the first case, the entire case was expunged.

An applicant with violence against multiple partners is NOT good. You will mostly likely have to disclose this to medical schools on a secondary, or at some point.

Your chances are most likely not good. And there's a reason for that.

Plus, I would not want my academic colleagues with a violent record next to me (or my physician either).

There were many times I was alone with a single girl/guy or two in my chemistry lab around 1 am. I want to feel safe too.

If they let in someone with a violent record of multiple instances, and I end up getting injured (maybe they're my partner for a project), that's a problem.

My advice: Talk to a lawyer/attorney. Talk to medical schools and state medical boards.

I'm not saying OP is or isn't violent. Rather, a violent record exists.

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

Really if this happened with 2 different boyfriends and the charges were on you and not them- I have a hard time believing you're the victim here.

That’s not how our society works. Girls are always the victim. If she were a man she would have been in prison and her life would have been over. An allegation alone is all that is needed against a man. Guilty until proven innocent. But a female can get away with domestive violence TWICE. I feel bad for her next boyfriend.

 

[Robin-jay]

That’s not how our society works. Girls are always the victim. If she were a man she would have been in prison and her life would have been over. An allegation alone is all that is needed against a man. Guilty until proven innocent. But a female can get away with domestive violence TWICE. I feel bad for her next boyfriend.

The main issue here is that I WANT TO FEEL SAFE in a professional setting with colleagues.

Woman, guy, transgender, agender, whatever. If they have multiple violent crimes, medical school students (university students in general) should not have to work with them as colleagues.

There's a reason medical schools don't want individuals with a violent record.

I'm not saying the OP is or isn't violent. But said individual does have a violent record.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

The main issue here is that I WANT TO FEEL SAFE in a professional setting with colleagues.
Woman, guy, transgender, agender, whatever. If they have multiple violent crimes, medical school students (university students in general) should not have to work with them as colleagues.

In each incident, my boyfriend instigated an assault on me and I was forced to use force (ie harm him) in order to escape the situation. The two incidents involved two different boyfriends,

In both cases, all charges were dismissed.

The two incidents involved two different boyfriends, but both boyfriends exhibited huge red flags leading up to the incidents in question, red flags I ignored and explained away because I loved them.

Without being there, I think you are being a bit over dramatic.

Based solely on OP's original wording, it appears OP has a case of self-defense in both situations. She does not appear to be a violent person per se (i.e. she didn't start hitting the bfs), she only got carried away defending herself. Her vice is that she did not pay attention to the red flags in both relationships and made poor choices in bfs.

But with maturity and time, hopefully OP can learn to pick better relationships...

 

[SpoiledMilk]

All I can tell you is that you may find otherwise when you are completing a secondary, and that you certainly will be required to disclose even expunged convictions to a medical board. There was at least one school/state I came across this year that stated explicitly that all convictions needed to be disclosed whether or not expunged in the state of conviction.

You're probably right. OP can choose not to fill out the 2nd for those medical schools that require disclosure. In the matter of the medical boards, when it comes time to get licensed, I have found professional boards can be very forgiving as long past misdeeds are fully disclosed and contrition is displayed...

 

[ndafife]

You're probably right. OP can choose not to fill out the 2nd for those medical schools that require disclosure. In the matter of the medical boards, when it comes time to get licensed, I have found professional boards can be very forgiving as long past misdeeds are fully disclosed and contrition is displayed...

Again as mentioned multiple times on here, OP was never convicted in either case and is highly highly unlikely to have a problem with medical boards or the application in general outside of a few secondaries that may ask about arrests/charges instead of convictions

 

[CyrilFiggis]

I'm impressed by the number of pre-meds here who are also pre-law. OP, talk to you lawyer and do a CBC to see what actually will come up should you apply to med school. If either do, again, speak with your counsel and have a draft of an explanation that states things clearly and concisely.

 

[DokterMom]

Practically, both a non-disclosure and expungement have the same effect as it relates to medical school admissions on the primary application. Because both won't/shouldn't show up on a CBC, then the applicant can honestly not disclose it in the primary AAMC application.

However, some schools have secondaries that ask for arrests. If defendant has their case sealed because of a nondisclosure, they must honestly answer this question with an affirmative. If defendant has their case expunged, they can honestly answer in the negative.

I'd suggest that if you see a secondary that asks for more information beyond convictions, don't turn that one in. It seems that legally you may have dodged a bullet, but sooner or later, you will probably be asked for information about legal situations that did not result in convictions, and when that happens, you should answer honestly. You just want that to be as far down the road as possible and to have lots of stable non-violent history behind you to support the belief that you are no longer a high-risk candidate.

I know at some point, I will likely have to explain these situatio.ns to a licensing board or to a hospital. I understand that the common thread with medical students with arrests is that they must demonstrate contrition and maturation from the incident(s). In my cases, though, while I did not want to harm my partners at the time, I was forced to from self-defense. I do not know if I can accurately feel contrite about my harming them when I was escaping bodily harm instigated against me in the process. I plan on volunteering with domestic violence survivors, as I feel that I can now provide them support and truly understand what they're going through. I wonder now, though. What input does anyone have on how I should go about explaining these?

I'm going to repeat my suggestion for therapy. You need to learn different response techniques in addition to understanding why you chose the men you chose and why you allowed yourself to get deeply emotionally involved when there were clear red flags. Once you clearly understand your own role in these stories, you'll be able to respond in a way that's both honest and mature, because right now (sorry), your explanation sounds like a combination of immaturity and excuses.

 

[deleted729041]

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[Robin-jay]

Without being there, I think you are being a bit over dramatic.

Based solely on OP's original wording, it appears OP has a case of self-defense in both situations. She does not appear to be a violent person per se (i.e. she didn't start hitting the bfs), she only got carried away defending herself. Her vice is that she did not pay attention to the red flags in both relationships and made poor choices in bfs.

But with maturity and time, hopefully OP can learn to pick better relationships...

Speculation is interesting, but irrelevant.

If the police found her guilty of violence twice, there's probably some truth to it.

I'm not over dramatic. I don't want to work with people with multiple violent crimes.

End of Story.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

If the police found her guilty of violence twice

In both cases, all charges were dismissed

but what of expunged dismissals (never convicted)

Read before jumping to conclusions. There were no convictions...

 

[CyrilFiggis]

If the police found her guilty

Police don't find you guilty..... Before you get holier than thou, learn some civics.

 

[Robin-jay]

Read before jumping to conclusions. There were no convictions...

You're not bad at "playing attorney", but I think:

1.) OP most likely isn't sharing all the details

2.) Not to fall into my own trap of playing attorney, but even these records may have to be disclosed to medical schools because they often ask for arrests, charges, convictions, all of that to try and stop people from running around the question, which is what the OP is trying to do.

3.) OP doesn't even come close to having the academic record needed to excel in medical school right now. Failing orgo 2 is a sign that the SMP she desires to attend will be a disastrous mess.

4.) OP's life doesn't seem stable. At all.

 

[Robin-jay]

Police don't find you guilty..... Before you get holier than thou, learn some civics.

I'm not playing attorney.

I'm playing a student that doesn't want to work with people with multiple violent issues.

Sorry if the lawful terms escape me.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Sorry if the lawful terms escape me.

I would suggest not trying to use them.

You've said nothing productive to answer OPs question so just move on.

 

[Robin-jay]

Re-read my original posts.