Don't know where to start...

[shunybuny]

I have so many question until I don't know where to start.

I would love to become a clinical or couneling psychologist someday but I have a few concerns. I am in my second year of undergrad with a major in Nursing and a minor in psych. Do I stand a slim chance of getting into a masters program in psych without having field experience?

I have been doing some research on the net on both Clinical and Counseling psych but I still would like to know more about the job market after completing a doctoral program or masters in either field. Could someone suggest where I can find this info? I would love to hear some of the success stories from recent grads.

I have also read that students in doctoral programs compile a huge amount of debt more so Psy.D students over Ph.D something to do with research stipends. I am not sure how true that is though.

So pleaaasse someone help me out I am really eager to read some of your response.

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[shunybuny]

Hello....Anybody...

 

[cici]

I'm currently in a clinical psychology program and so I can't tell you much about counselling psych. I believe most clinical psyc programs require a Bachelor's degree in psychology (some even require an Honours degree in psychology). As far as "field experience" is concerned, most programs require RESEARCH experience (e.g. volunteering as research assistant in psychology laboratories, completing an Honours thesis, publications etc). Clinical experience, in contrast, may not be as important.

For clinical psychology, you need a doctoral degree in order to be licensed. Programs that take you also assume that you're capable of doing PhD level work (i.e. they won't accept you if they think that you're only going to complete a Master's degree). I'm in a PhD program right now. PhD programs usually provide more financial support to their students (in the form of TA/RAships, research stipends etc, and you're often asked by your supervisor to apply to as many external grants as possible), so debt may not be as much of a problem. PhD programs, however, are more competitive and harder to get in (as they have more stringent admission criteria and selection rate -- you're looking at 6 to 8 successful applicants out of several hundred).

 

[shunybuny]

Thanks for responding to my post. You were very informative.

you're looking at 6 to 8 successful applicants out of several hundred).

WOW! I don't think I stand a chance However, I don't think the Ph.D model would be good for me anyway because I positively HATE RESEARCH I would rather have more patient contact.

Good luck to you in your future psych career. Congrats on making it thus far

Just curious did you have any publications prior to starting your Ph.D program?

 

[PublicHealth]

As cici correctly mentioned above, clinical psych PhD programs pretty much REQUIRE that you have research experience. Because competition for entrance into most good programs is fierce (about 10 seats per 200 applicants), you must have at least some evidence on your record indicating that you will become a productive clinical psychologist. Nowadays, that means research, which is usually clinical in nature. Although some clinical psychologists (e.g., clinical neuropsychologists) work full-time in a clinical setting and do not have primary research responsibilities, they still have to complete a dissertation based on original research in graduate school.

Seriously consider your options before pursuing a career in clinical psychology. With reimbursements being cut left and right -- especially in behavioral healthcare -- clinical psychologists tend to suffer the worst of the cuts. One explanation is that psychiatrists, who can prescribe meds and do psychotherapy, offer the most comprehensive behavioral healthcare, while clinical psychologists are reduced to only being able to do psychotherapy. To make matters worse, most psychotherapy is now handled by mid-level practitioners such as MSWs and APRNs. This explains why the majority of clinical psychologists are tucked away in academic medical centers doing research -- it pays better, and you get more autonomy.

Good thread. Keep the questions coming.

PH

 

[shunybuny]

Thanks Public Health! I will definitely keep my options open. I am not interested in research or academia so I guess I need to do more research on fields in psychology that ar geared more toward patient contact and less research.

Do either of you know if it is just as hard to get into a Psy.D program as it is a Ph.D? i.e. do they require you to do extenive research prior to admissions or be published?

Once again thanks to the both of you!

 

[cici]

Originally posted by shunybuny
Thanks Public Health! I will definitely keep my options open. I am not interested in research or academia so I guess I need to do more research on fields in psychology that ar geared more toward patient contact and less research.

Do either of you know if it is just as hard to get into a Psy.D program as it is a Ph.D? i.e. do they require you to do extenive research prior to admissions or be published?

Once again thanks to the both of you!

As far as I know, it's easier to get into a PsyD program than a PhD program, since PsyD programs admit more students every year and the admission criteria are less stringent. PsyD programs usually put more emphasis on clinical work and less on research (they wanna train people to be "consumers" of research rather than "producers" of research). Some programs require thesis / dissertation (so I've heard) though. With regards to research experience, I always think that even it's not explicitly required by a program, it will make you stand out and be more competitive in the admission process. It will also prepare you well for your graduate school career (even you're considering a PsyD program, it doesn't mean that you don't need research. You need to have research skills in order to understand those journal articles......and since some programs also require you to do a thesis / dissertation, research skills will be extremely helpful.)

Psychology is largely research-oriented I'll say. Clinical psychology is considered more "applied" and less "research" already, but there's still a lot of research involved. It's wrong to assume htat only those who plan to have a career in academia will need to know how to do research. Even you plan to be a clinician (i.e. a practising clinical psychologist) after graduation as opposed to being in academia / a full-time researcher, you're still expected to be proficient in research. It's simply the training model in clinical psychology these days. Even for PsyD programs that are geared more towards the clinical side of things, you're still expected to understand research literature, and / or participate in research projects. It's not so easy to get around it.

If you really dislike research, you really should think twice about whether a career in psychology is suitable for you (if you dislike research and only like the clinical side of things, your grad school experience will be EXTREMELY painful)......I'm not sure about counselling psyc or educational psyc though......maybe those 2 fields involve less research? You can try to find that out by visiting the webpages of those schools that offer graduate studies in those fields.

 

[PublicHealth]

shunybuny,

If you're interested in patient care and are currently pursing a degree in nursing, why don't you practice as a nurse for a couple years, get an MSN, and become a psychiatric nurse practitioner? You'll make good money ($60-90K depending on location), have constant patient contact, and learn a lot about psychopathology!

Regarding your question, Psy.D. programs are equally, if not a little less, competitive than Ph.D. programs in clinical psychology. Here's a description of some differences:

http://www.bluffton.edu/courses/tlc/nathp/web/settings/phdpsyd.htm

Be aware that some Psy.D. programs require students to conduct original research.

If I were you, I would seriously consider becoming a psychiatric nurse practitioner. You'll be in very high demand, and can make a very good living at it.

PH

 

[Sanman]

Well, from what I understand school psychology, especially at the master's level, has less research. However, there is still research since testing methodologies and testing constructs must be taught.

 

[shunybuny]

Thank you all for your great advice. I will take your advice Public Health and look into Psych. NP I didn't even had a clue they existed.

You all have been wonderful and have really opened my eyes in realizing that a psych career is just not for me.


THANKS

 

[PublicHealth]

shunybuny,

Your profile says that you're attending Southern Miss. Check out the nursing website. You guys have an MSN program in psychiatric nursing!

http://gradsch.mccain.usm.edu/degreeapp/Degree App/Nursing/NursingPsyciatricMSN.xls

 

[Dr Barry Zlatko]

You ask great questions, shunybuny.

A suggestion: You might want to rethink your stance on research, as it seems the main thing that is limiting you is the fact that you do not want to do it. Although it can of course be tedious, it is a foundation of much of the work that you will be doing with patients. The experience you get whilst doing research will give you a wider breadth of experience and broader perspective.

Everyone's comments here have been great. I would stress that to prepare for graduate work, the best thing for you to do is volunteer work in your field. This is worth its weight in gold, as it were, although I do not think this is the best analogy to use here - I couldn't think of another one.

Good luck and godspeed to you in your future endeavors!

 

[giraffespots]

Just to clarify about school psychology.... I am currently in a PhD program in school psych and we have the same research core as the counseling psych students. We take about 15 credits of research courses and then conduct research for our pre-disseration and dissertation work.

The master's level school psych program does not require the research core. One of the difference between the programs is that the master's allows you to practice in a school whereas a PhD provides more options for private practice, clinic work, academia, etc., as well as schools. However, I agree that anybody in the profession should keep current and be able to read and understand research.

 

[Dr Barry Zlatko]

Thanks for clarifying this, girrafespots.

Interestingly enough, this is one of two times I have encountered this aversion to research here, and I have certainly encountered it among students in the real world too.

I find the trend disturbing - I fail to see how anyone can expect to have a career, or indeed enjoy a career, in any scientific field without a strong anchor in research.