1. Dismiss Notice
  2. Download free Tapatalk for iPhone or Tapatalk for Android for your phone and follow the SDN forums with push notifications.
    Dismiss Notice

DOs having harder time for finding a match?

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by Mr. MD or DO, Jun 10, 2001.

  1. Mr. MD or DO

    Mr. MD or DO Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2001
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi, I've done alot of research about osteopathic medicine but in the midst of my quest for complete understanding and prospect of osteopathic medicine, I came across a very discouraging fact that seems to be prevalent over lots of articles and publication. That is, DOs having harder time compared to MDs for residency programs (including specialty and other primary care). Even in Kaplans's guide 2001 editions clearly states that those who prefer persuing research or specialty are strongly discouraged to applying to osteopathic schools because it would be too competitive to find the residency programs. The diverse pool from many MDs, DOs and even foreign MDs, makes it exceedingly difficult to find any residency program. Is it true, for those who actually went through this process recently?
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I'm not one to answer your question because I have yet to start med school this August but I have met several D.O. docs who are specialized and had no trouble getting any matches.... I'm sure every story is different.... I say, if you want it badly enough you'll get that match.... You may have to bust your butt, but in my experience I've been bustin' my butt in everything I do.... thus being successful at things....

    If you're going for "competitive" matches I'm sure that they will be competitive no matter what degree is after your name, thus the competitiveness.....

    Is it harder for D.O.'s to get matches?.... from the docs I have talked to... that's not the case.... Maybe I've been lucky to have met D.O. docs who has had no problem with matching....

    Anyone who has more experience regarding this matter, please share your experience!!! Much thanx :cool:
     
  4. ewagner

    ewagner Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 1998
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    0
    As a fourth year student, it is important to distinguish the Allopathic and Osteopathic matches.
    Osteopathic is for DO's only, where as the Allopathic match may include, MD's, DO's, and IMG's. It only makes logical sense, and statistics support this, that the allopathic match is favored toward U.S. MD's. It is extremely difficult for a DO student to obtain a residency position in a competative specialty at a University Program.(ie General surgery at Indiana University). That is just fact.
    If you want that spot, you had better rotate through the school, take the USMLE, and kick ass.
    Other programs like FP, IM, Peds have so many spots each year, DO's can be found throughout. These are the more traditional places to find DO's entering the allopathic match.
    But think about it, as DO students, you are discouraged from entering into the Allopathic match as soon as you enter into the doors at osteopathic medical school. The osteopathic match, because it is only DO's, gives a feeling of confidence...it is less competative. The MD match, sends DO students into almost uncharted regions of allopathic education. It can be a scary thing. The worry of NOT matching may keep many DO's from entering the Allopathic match...and staying with the Osteopathic match.
     
  5. matopet1

    matopet1 Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2001
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi I do not know if I can help. I have been lucky enough to gain acceptance to both allopathic and osteopathic programs. My goal was to be by family so I accepted at CCOm and declined 2 scholls in ohio and I am on the alternate list at GW. DC and Chicago are where I have family. Remeber about 55-60 % of DO's do allopathic residencies. I was asked by an interviewer at AZCOM who was an MD if I prefered MD's or DO's. My answer was neither and that i subscribed to the osteopathic approach and had a commitment to primary care and I looked at the individual not the degree. THere is still the stigma of Do's in some of the hard core Md specialties such as orthapedic surgery or Gen surg at some schools, but there are alot where you will DOs.If you look at CCOM's match list about half went into MD tarining. One guy matched at Rush in surgery. If you kick but it does not matter. The Army surgeon general is a DO and the head of EMS for the olypics in Atlanta was a DO. YOu can find a DO in almost any specialty area. There are 11 DO at the University of Chicago. They all are grads of CCOM, but obviously they must be outstanding to be there. Check out the post on people that declined allopathic fo osteopathic schools. Also if you do military you enter into ACGME training(MD). I would also recommend DO's by Norman Gevitz. At Azcom they placed somebody in Surgery at Triple Army med Center. You have to do well in school and rock on your boards if you want a competitive specialty no matter what your initials. Remember it is the individual and not the degree or institution. --Good Luck!!
     
  6. Neurogirl

    Neurogirl Resident Extraordinaire
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2000
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    1
    As a recent osteopathic GRADUATE who participated in the allopathic match (matched to my first choice neuro program), I can tell you that things are not as bad as ewagner states. Of course there are a few specialties (ortho, ENT, Derm) that are especially difficult to get into, but for the most part, it's not that bad and it's certainly not impossible. Also, keep in mind that entry into a competitive specialty is just that...competitive...difficult for everyone...even MD students. I know many who participated in the allopathic match this year, and the VAST MAJORITY matched to UNIVERSITY programs...and not just primary care specialties. At my school alone, there were several who matched at university programs in surgery, radiology, med/peds, etc. :D

    Also, at least at my school, we were NOT discouraged from entering the allopathic match, in fact, we were strongly encouraged and given lots of information and support.

    Hope this helps! :D
     
  7. go GOP

    go GOP Junior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2001
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fourth year students from my school have been matching at residency programs like Johns Hopkins, Yale, University of Washington, UCSF, Stanford, UCLA, USC, the Cleveland Clinic,and several other very competitive programs over the last few years. The sky is the limit. Competitive does not mean competitive as far as D.O.s are concerned--they are competitive for all who apply.
     
  8. NurseyK

    NurseyK Bunny-Slave
    Physician Faculty 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    That's RIGHT!...Neurogirl is a *Graduate* now...(time goes by so derned quickly)

    {{{{{APPLAUSE}}}}}

    Kat :D

    PS: I forgot, Neurogirl, did you take only COMLEX or both Exams? - K
     
  9. Neurogirl

    Neurogirl Resident Extraordinaire
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2000
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi Kat,

    Thanks! I only took the COMLEX. Of course, neuro is not especially competitive (although it's starting to get more popular) and all the programs I contacted said that those scores alone would suffice. However, since you're planning on going into EM (right?), you'll probably need to take both. Unfortunately, this year EM had a fill rate of 99%...higher than ortho! Who knows though...maybe things will have cooled off by the time you're applying. When the time comes, contact all the programs you're interested in and ask them about their requirement and/or preferences. :D
     
  10. drchrislareau

    drchrislareau Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2001
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    1
    Your chances of getting into an osteopathic residency (e.g. dermatology, ophtalmology, radiology) are much improved if you are a D.O. Your chances of getting into an ACGME (allopathic) are improving because of limitations being set on International Medical Graduates being placed in U.S. programs. Your performance in med school usually has a lot to do with it too.
     
  11. classic13

    classic13 Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Neurogirl,

    I am interested in going into neurology also and was wondering if you can share your experience as an neuro residency applicant. I would appreciate it very much if you can shed some light on what makes one a competitve neuro residency applicant (i.e. what kind of COMLEX score does one need for a neuro spot at an allopathic academic center, did you do research?, etc.)

    Please email me at [email protected] if you rather respond in private. Thank you very much for your help.
     
  12. Neurogirl

    Neurogirl Resident Extraordinaire
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2000
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    1
    Classic13,

    As I've said before, neuro is not especially competitive, so you shouldn't have any problems. I was just an average student with average comlex scores and I only had minimal research experience (during grad school). However, I did have EXCELLANT letters (more than one interviewer commented about them) and clinical grades. Also, to improve my chances, I scheduled elective rotations with my top three choices and made sure I ran circles around my fellow students (not hard to do since most people don't like neuro). Hope this info helps. If you have any other questions just let me know. :D
     
  13. DepressedNYCOMstudent

    DepressedNYCOMstudent Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2000
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you are in NY, you won't have problems getting an allopathic residency. If you look at NYCOM's graduate residency matches you will find that most of the matches are into allopathic residency programs and DOs match into all kinds of specialties like Pediatrics, psychiatry, OB/GYN, Internal medicine, family practice..almost anything I can think of EXCEPT the really competitive ones like Gen. Surgery, Derm. etc. DOs have the options of applying to allopathic programs AND to osteopathic programs. Our residency options are not limited in any way (unless you want to go into Gen surgery etc).
    I am surprised how Kaplan could publish such a thing as that in their books....If you really want true information about any residency program , just call up the medical school and ask for a list of their residency matches of the previous year. DOs have a lot of options...don't worry...if you want to be a DO apply to a DO school.
    Good Luck.
     
  14. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic!
    Staff Member Administrator Physician Faculty Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 15+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2000
    Messages:
    38,541
    Likes Received:
    26,722
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I'll move this to the Rotations and Residencies Forum for ya...it might be easier seen there! :D
     
  15. DocToBe

    DocToBe Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2000
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    0
    Neurogirl,

    I am also interested in applying for neurology. I'm now entering my second year. I am especially interested in 5 or 6-year neurology/psychiatry residencies. Did you consider those programs? Any word on competitiveness for those?

    Thanks!

    DocToBe
     
  16. Neurogirl

    Neurogirl Resident Extraordinaire
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2000
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    1
    DocToBe,

    Unfortunately, I don't know much about the combined programs. However, since neither specialty is very competitive, I doubt the combined programs would be competitive. To get more info, go to the ABPN website (American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology). You could also give them a call...maybe they have some literature. The number is 847/945-7900.

    Neurogirl DO, MPH
     
  17. classic13

    classic13 Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Neurogirl,

    Thank you very much for your advice. If you don't mind, I have a few more questions for you:

    (1) What elective rotations do you recommend doing at the institutions that I want to go (other than neurology itself)? I was told doing multiple identical rotations at different places looks bad. If we do not rotate through the neuro service at the desired hospital (say you are there for medicine instead), how do you go about impressing them?

    (2) what non-neuro rotations did you find helpful in complementing neurology?

    (3) what were some of the memorable questions that you were asked at your interviews.

    Thanks again for the advice. I sincerely appreciate it.

    Jeff

    P.S. which residency program will you be starting ?
     
  18. Neurogirl

    Neurogirl Resident Extraordinaire
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2000
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    1
    Classic13,

    I don't know where you got your info regarding doing multiple rotations in your specialty of choice, but that's exactly what I did and recieved only positive feedback. I also know of others who did the same thing and can't imagine why anyone would say it "looks bad". When you find a specialty you love, it only makes sense that you'd want to spend extra time exploring it (not to mention exploring the programs you're interested in).

    Unfortunately, there's really no way to get to know a department unless you spend time in it and if you want to impress the neuro faculty, you must interact with them on a daily basis. If you're on the medicine team they won't know you from Adam. Also, it's not just about knowledge. You want to show them you're a team player and that you're dependable and easy to work with. Of course it's not really necessary to do audition rotations, but it helps. Not only do they get to know you, but you get the inside story...not always a pretty picture. My original first choice dropped to dead last after spending time there.

    As far as other related specialties, I did rotations in psych, anesthesiology and hospice medicine ( I have an interest in pain management). You could also do rotations in neurosurg and PM&R.

    During my interviews I never had any really unusual questions. You'll find that neurologists, as a whole, are a pretty boring group. They mainly just wanted to know how I became interested in the specialty and most of them also asked about subspecialty interests. Nothing too difficult. They WILL expect you to ask questions about the program so make sure you've done your homework.

    Regarding the program I matched with, I prefer to maintain my anonymity so I'd rather not say. I used to be more open about such things, until people started approaching me on campus and asking questions about my posts! This way, I can be completely open and honest.

    Hope this helps. :D
     

Share This Page